Recommend an amp/speaker

[Rockitman]

I have a Roland RD700SX. I have only used it at home and plug it into my home stereo. (It actually sounds quite nice through the stereo).

 

I'm now getting involved with a garage band as the singer and they keep begging me to bring my keyboard over. I tell them I have nothing to plug into as I am not about to haul my home stereo over there.

 

So could you guys give me a short list of highly recommended keyboard amps or powererd speakers to meet my needs?

 

I want my full stereo effect too so I guess I would be purchasing 2 of whatever I settle on.

 

Couple of years ago, I bought that Motion Sound amp because it bragged about its stereo effect and I was highly unimpressed with the sound quality and promptly returned it.

 

Also, I don't think I want to get 2 Mackie SRM450's, although I'm prepared to spend that kind of money if need be, I just think it would be overkill in the mix with 2 guitars, bass and drummer. No?

 

So, anyways, I realize this is kind of a broad question, but I just want to purchase something that I will be happy with and not have to return it.

[Dave Horne]

This has been covered in great detail here.

 

Here's a thought for you, since you're the singer in this group, wouldn't it make sense for you to have your own sound system for vocals and keyboard?

 

If someone else calls you for a job, you're set ... and you can ask more money since you're supplying the sound system.

 

In general when it comes to sound, spend more than you have, buy more than you need and you'll and everyone else will be happy with the sound.

[ProfD]

Rockitman, considering the fact you mentioned the Mackie SRM450s tells me you are familiar with speakers and looking in the right direction i.e. PA instead of keyboard amp.

 

Sounds like it's time to head down to the local music store and audition a few candidates. As DH said above, there are several threads dedicated to speakers.

 

Since you sing and play, definitely consider a system that will cover both aspects of your craft. Preferably, audition a pair of PA speakers with an RD700SX if possible and mic. The store environment will be different from the venues you play but this will give you an idea of how the speakers sound.

 

Once you have checked into a few models, shoot a note back in this direction. The cats around here have a little bit of everything. Good luck in your search.

[Rockitman]

I'm a newbie at this so please bear with me.

 

Let's say I purchase a couple of powered speakers, such as the Mackies.

 

If I'm hooking each Mackie to my Roland using XLR cables, where does the mike plug in?

[RL]

Yo Rockitman,I think I've found the amp for you.I've been searching about 7 years for a amp that would do the paino sound of my Yamaha p-250 justice.By deduction and the advice of others,I've tried JBL Powered Eon 15s in stereo,Eon 10s in stereo,Barbettas,Peaveys,and Rolands etc..They all made my board sound like many varying degrees of trash.It was so depressing.I'm happy with the sound of my P-250's speakers and even more so if I tweak the sound.The problem is as yours once you play in a trio or larger ensemble you can't be heard.Thus I began my search for more volume with at least the same quality of sound.After posting for a remedy on many forums,one particular response came in sharing knowledge regarding the Compact 60 Speaker by AER.I was impressed with the info,located a dealer in my area and arranged to take my board to the dealership.We hooked up one Compact 60 to the P-250 and it sounded better than the speakers on my 250.I was all smiles.Then a thought came to me and I asked if they had another 60 in the building,they did and when they hooked up the two my head shot back in amazement over the sound quality.I came back the next day and snatched up both of those jewels knew I wouldn't have been happy without them.These Gems are also so lightweight it's ridiculous with power to spare.Save yourself a heap of grief and check these out.All of my above mentioned speaker/monitors/Graphic equalizers/DI Boxes and any other bits and pieces of equipment meant for sound enhancement are up for sale and good riddance..

[Rockitman]

thanks for the recommendation RL, but after looking this speaker up on the net, I don't think I'm prepared to pay that kind of money, especially if I want 2 of them.

Also, this speaker is advertised as made for acoustic guitars, never a mention about using them with keyboards.

 

Now, can anybody answer my question in my previous post?

[B3bluesman59]

I want my full stereo effect too so I guess I would be purchasing 2 of whatever I settle on.

________________________________________________________________

Go the powered speaker route. Mackies are good, likewise the JBL EON 15 G2's. Check your local Craigs List or Ebay as these speakers come up for sale quite often as there are so many of them out there. You can usually find like new units for 50 cents on the dollar compared to new.

 

[ITGITC]

If I'm hooking each Mackie to my Roland using XLR cables, where does the mike plug in?

 

You need a mixer with the Mackie speakers. You wouldn't with a JBL EON. It has a built-in mixer and EQ.

 

Wooden speakers sound better than plastic speakers, IMO.

 

Check out the JBL PRX500 series KLONK HERE.

 

Of course, it doesn't matter what my opinion is. Go listen for yourself and choose based on your budget and the audition.

 

Tom

 

[hazerkeys]

Hi - been the same route as you and for my rig (PC1x, CX-3, Nord lead) I used the 2 mackie sm450's with a Pro-3T for some time (along with a front end little mackie mixing board) - worked great, but once I got in another band and started gigging pretty regular (OK, regular for me was every weekend LOL), I got tired of setting that all up (plus we had a much nicer monitor and FOH setup now to) - I did go with the Motion Sound KBR3-D jsut for simplicity sake and left all else at home (along with my lonely Leslie 145 ) - think the "mini-PA" will give you better fidelity especially for piano, etc .. but the simple solution is something to consider as well ...

[Mr. Nightime]

I just think it would be overkill in the mix with 2 guitars, bass and drummer. No?

 

 

No, it's not overkill

 

Remember that guitar players,in general as a group, love to play loud. Plus, because they go for a distorted sound so often, they can get by with a small amp. Keys, OTOH need a lot of headroom.

 

A pair of Mackie's is Not overkill, it's perhaps the minimum needed. Otherwise, your beloved Roland sound that you are so carefully working on may never be heard.

 

I'm in the small PA group myself, and son't see myself changing any time soon.

 

[RL]

Yes Rockitman,the Compact 60s are made for acoustic guitars.So when I went on line as you did after I was told of how well they perform with keyboards I was puzzled when there was no mention of them being keyboard compatible.I said to myself either this guy is a boldfaced liar or there's some truth to what he shared.Nonetheless it would cost nothing to try them.I did and they worked fabulously with a keyboard that had been to that point sounded terrible with any amp/monitor I plugged into.At least try them.They will be a answer to your problem even though they'er pricey.I don't call them Jewels for nothing.

[RL]

Yes Rockitman,the Compact 60s are made for acoustic guitars.So when I went on line as you did after I was told of how well they perform with keyboards I was puzzled when there was no mention of them being keyboard compatible.I said to myself either this guy is a boldfaced liar or there's some truth to what he shared.Nonetheless it would cost nothing to try them.I did and they worked fabulously with a keyboard that had been to that point sounded terrible with any amp/monitor I plugged into.At least try them.They will be a answer to your problem even though they'er pricey.I don't call them Jewels for nothing.

[Jazz+]

Visit the Powered Speakers thread.

[Jazz+]

OK, I see it now:

http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/AER1.htm

 

I have played my piano and Rhodes patches through a single AER Compact 60. It is not a very full range speaker. It was designed for guitar. They are really small (size, 10.25"x 13"x 9.5", 18.75 lbs package, 60-watt, single 8" twin-cone speaker). They are not loud enough for my situations. There is no comparison in my mind to the EV SXa360 speaker.

[Rockitman]

 

 

Check out the JBL PRX500 series KLONK HERE.

 

Of course, it doesn't matter what my opinion is. Go listen for yourself and choose based on your budget and the audition.

 

Tom

 

 

 

Thanks Tom, I just called my local guitar center and asked what would be the best output option for my keyboard, and he named this JBL right of the top!

 

Are they a new model? They sure are pricey, especially for 2.

 

 

[Rockitman]

Visit the Powered Speakers thread.

 

 

I performed a search on said thread and got nothing.

[NoahZark]

Visit the Powered Speakers thread.

 

 

I performed a search on said thread and got nothing.

 

Here you go: KLONK HERE

 

Noah

 

 

[Rockitman]

Visit the Powered Speakers thread.

 

 

I performed a search on said thread and got nothing.

 

Here you go: KLONK HERE

 

Noah

 

 

I was just about to reply and say I found it, which I did, and have read all 14 pages, wow! Thanks for the pointer anyways Noah.

 

 

It appears to me that the 2 standouts in the powered speaker field today are the JBL 512 (or 515), and the EV 360s.

Man, both are sure pricy though.

 

One more question to you guys, do you find it imperative to get your stereo sound with 2 speakers or are many of you happy with just 1?

[ITGITC]

...do you find it imperative to get your stereo sound with 2 speakers or are many of you happy with just 1?

 

BINGO!

 

You just won the prize for the question of the day/week/month/year.

 

Not too long ago I was very happy monitoring with one JBL EON and sending a stereo signal to FOH so they could do with it whatever sounded best out front.

 

I'm lazy, so I sometimes continue doing this.

 

But many keyboards today use stereo samples. And some of these don't sound that great when reduced to mono. So, to keep me really happy, I like to hear myself with two speakers in the near field. They're just for me, but in a very small setting - like a coffee house where the audience is apt to hear your monitors, for instance, I like to represent myself in stereo - that's the way the sound designers intended it to be.

 

In a larger venue, I'll still send a stereo signal to FOH and let them do whatever sounds best out front. They probably pan both L/R in the middle and that's fine by me if it sounds best that way. I don't know. I'm not out front.

 

Now that's my preference. When we use rental backline equipment, the house PA is usually mono, so I'm happy to get my own keyboard amp instead of simply a monitor at my feet. I've seen some performers ( MARCIA BALL ) use a volume control that sits on their keyboards so they can control their monitor volume without having to yell or give hand signals back and forth to the monitor tech all night long. Anyone who has done this knows that it's no fun.

 

And if you can't hear yourself through your monitor all night long, you may as well go home. Being able to have independent control over your monitor mix is paramount.

 

My rule of thumb regarding my monitors on stage is this:

 

Make yourself happy whenever you can... nobody else gives a sh*t.

 

 

True... true.

 

 

 

 

[Dave Ferris]

If you read the PS thread you can see I'm very happy with my EV SXA 360's. They're $$$ but blow everything else out of the water(size/weight-sonic quality), powered speaker wise in that price range.

 

Every gig is different though, tonight I'll probably go with the dreaded Motion Sound 200 just because it's a short gig, the load in is a b.tch, and I just want to get in and out as fast as possible. I still want some semblance of stereo even on my 1st generation S90 piano sound.

[Rockitman]

thanks for that insight itgitc. I agree. The keyboard was made to be played in stereo whenever possible.

 

Dave, have you posted a detailed review of your new speakers yet?

 

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts, especially since you've already gone through some SRM450's (which I was getting ready to look at), and also since you own the MS200, something I owned for a whole week.

 

Got a local guy on Craigslist selling 2 450's with stand and cables for a grand. 50 hours of use he claims. I'm getting an itchy trigger finger, but don't want to sacrifice a few hundred in savings when something that blows it out of the park is waiting for me.

 

 

[mate stubb]

Well, there are solutions that blow the 450s out of the park IMO. A pair of JBL EON G2 15s or the new JBL PRX 515s which have Crown power, for instance.

[SK]

Having gone through the 450's myself, there are better things - if you're looking for the best. The recommendations that mate made are good, as are Dave's suggestion for the EV 360's. I opted for a stereo amp and unpowered Accugroove speakers for the best sound I could find. It seems the powered speakers lack the sound of a wood cabinet that I need, unless there's a powered speaker out there I haven't heard of.

[mate stubb]

Hey SK, my Accugrooves are finally due to be shipped tomorrow! I should have them in about a week.

[NoahZark]

Well, there are solutions that blow the 450s out of the park IMO. A pair of JBL EON G2 15s or the new JBL PRX 515s which have Crown power, for instance.

 

I have A/B'd the JBL EON G2 15s against the Mackie SRM450s, and I personally think it goes way too far to say that the JBL's "blow the 450s out of the park." In fact, I like the Mackies more. In Mate's defense, he did add "IMO," but I just wanted to share a different opinion.

 

Noah

[Dave Ferris]

I did go into a little detail on that thread...but here is a bit more....non-tech, since I'm a very non-tech kind of guy.

 

The Ev 360s aren't as hyped in the high end as the Mackie 450s...I owned a pair of 450's for 6-7 years and they served me well...never crapped out on a gig. I ended up getting $800 on CL here in LA (you should come down here...prices are a bit cheaper...it is a drive to save $200 though) for the Mackies. I would say the new JBL PRX 512M is an improvement over the Mackie, although it's hyped in the high end as well. The Mackies actually do what what they were designed for very well, which are floor wedges for vocal.

They are heavy at 52lbs. and bulky...it was always hard to get the pair on a dolly stacked on top of my keyboard. It's an older design that worked well for many years, there's just newer stuff that sounds better and is lighter.

 

The EVs have a lot of bass for a little plastic cabinet w/ a 12".

When I've gone direct into them w/ my S90, I've had to roll the low and mid-low off most of the patches. They are plenty loud with good clarity and warmth.

My vocal through them rivals my DynAudio BM15A monitors...they sound great,... flat, no eq! I paid $1975 for the pair..I think they list at between $1300-14. In that price range I don't think you will find anything that light that sounds that good. The next level up would be the Meyers or the L-Acoustics 108 P or some other high end Pro Audio speaker. You're in a whole other league price and performance wise. Expect to pay at least $4K for a pair.

 

If you go the passive speaker/amp/mixer/rack route I would check out the Accugroove/QSC (or any lightweight amp...Crown, Crest)the Mackie VLZ is a solid investment for a low cost dependable mixer. The Accugroove gives you a three way speaker, studio monitor quality and a lightweight package. I've heard SK's Roland FP4 through them on a recording and the piano sound was pretty scary.

This route still puts you at over 2k though and more stuff to plug in unless everything is hard-wired into the rack.

 

The thing about sound is you really do get what you pay for....a great small sound system can make a crappy older keyboard sound great. Try running an OASYS through a Behringer keyboard amp and see what you've got.

 

The Motion Sound is Ok. Not my first choice but convenient when space is limited, you want to get in and out quickly and still have somewhat of the stereo imaging effect.

It served it's purpose on tonight's gig.

[SK]

Hey SK, my Accugrooves are finally due to be shipped tomorrow! I should have them in about a week.

Man, that took a while... I guess they had to cut the trees down to make the cabinets.

 

Report back on what you think when you get them. (Of course, you're required to say you like them, or I'll have to resign the forum in disgrace.)

[Dave Ferris]

It has been awhile.....you know we've had so little rain here in Ca.,Mark has had to wait for some trees to mature up there in N. Ca.

[mate stubb]

Noah, I A/B'd them too. I thought the Mackies had an unpleasant harsh high end that hurt my ears. There was no way I would be able to sit in front of them for long.

[mate stubb]

Man, that took a while... I guess they had to cut the trees down to make the cabinets.

 

Report back on what you think when you get them. (Of course, you're required to say you like them, or I'll have to resign the forum in disgrace.)

 

Yeah, it has sucked here recently trying to be patient.

 

They had a crisis when their production manager quit abruptly, which set things back a couple weeks. Then the wood (which actually comes from Europe) was slow coming. Then the drivers were slow coming.

 

Then they had to modify the cabinets after they were finished - I ordered pole mounts, and that causes them to reinforce the cabinet again after they are installed.

 

I didn't realize how small they are - it feels like a 3 to 4 person company to me. I have had trouble getting them on the phone from time to time, and they have missed 4 estimated completion dates. On the other hand, Mark is a super nice guy, and if I come out of this with a pair of super sounding monitors that last me 20 years, it will have been worth the wait.

 

Fortunately for me, I'm not gigging regularly right now.