CMT's top 100 (ahem) coun(COUGH COUGH!) - pardon me, country songs of all time

[Jode]

There is a definite slant toward modern day faux-country here. You know, pop songs that just happen to have fiddle and steel guitar. Now, this next has nothing to do with the Dixie Chicks' political leanings, but can anyone explain to me how "Wide Open Spaces" could POSSIBLY place higher than "Folsom Prison Blues" or "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry"? What in HELL is Tim McGraw even doing in there? How does an easy listening song like Faith Hill's "Breathe" out-country "Make The World Go Away," "Guitars, Cadillacs," and - good God - Miss Lo-retta Lynn's "Don't Come Home A-Drankin'(sic) With Lovin' On Yore(sic) Mind"? For God's sake, who's running the railroad over at CMT? Have they forgotten what the damn 'C' stands for? Adn I thought rock and roll was in rough shape. When "Amazed" by Lonestar places above "Back In The Saddle Again" - goddamn GENE AUTRY, y'all - then the end of the world must be nigh. [url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=495&ncid=689&e=4&u=/ap/20030605/ap_en_mu/country_s_best_list]Read it and weep - at least "Stand By Your Man" is number one.[/url]

[Mike Dawson]

When I first saw this post, i was thinking "oh shit, i forgot to watch that!". Then I took that link and thought "shit, glad i forgot to watch that" I don't have a great frame of reference, since probably a third of the songs on the list were recorded before I was even born. But of the few things I know about country music : 1) He Stopped Loving Her Today is and will always be the greatest country song ever, that's just the way it is. 2) Nothing Lonestar has recorded or ever will record will be in the greatest any number of country songs. 3) I love Brooks n Dunn, but if they get a song in the top 50 it's Brand New Man, not Boot Scootin Boogey. and 4) everything Jode said. I don't have a huge problem with It's Your Love being somewhere in the top 100 (I do have a small one), but the fact that Tim McGraw and Faith Hill are both on the list twice as a result is pretty sad. And Leann Rimes with Blue? Friends in Low Places #6 instead of the Dance? I hope you dance, the 30th best song ever in country music? Did anybody actually watch this? I think they were supposed to have performances of the top 5 or so. I'd be curious to at least see that.

[LiveMusic]

It must have been a woman who composed this. "He Stopped Loving Her Today" MUST be number one. Tammy's song is great but it ain't #1. To me, the list is decent but the pop/schlop songs on there, no way. And no David Allan Coe? First, I was pissed Johnny Paycheck wasn't on there but he finally showed at the bottom.

[Mark Zeger]

Is the a list ranking the songwriting or the performance?

[fantasticsound]

C'mon... you didn't really expect them to skew this to the greatest songs without obliterating the list with more recent hits, did you? Some food for thought: [list=1] [*]For the 70th anniversary celebration of the Grand Ole Opry, CBS crammed every current star onstage for a solo performance. Most of them show up at the Opry once, maybe twice a year, with a few exceptions. The backbone of the Opry, at that time moreso than today, were many older Opry stars. What was their combined contribution to the telecast? A single group number. 40 or 50 stars singing, "Will The Circle Be Unbroken". I was embarrassed for them all. At the time, I had unfettered backstage access at the Opry on normal show nights. The people who worked their butts off, week after week, were barely noticed on a show celebrating the institution many of them helped build in it's heyday. The biggest insult was to Porter Wagonner. I'm not a big fan of Porter, but I spent a lot of time listening to and watching him over lunches when I worked at the park. After Roy Acuff and Minnie Pearl died, Porter became the spokesman and mascot of the Opry. He was stunned to find no part for him on the anniversary show. Not MC, not even a significant role of introductions in addition to the MC. They wanted to plant him in the aforementioned rows of his peers standing still and singing, "Will The Circle Be Unbroken." My disgust couldn't compare to his, but I was ashamed of Opry and Gaylord Entertainment management for allowing CBS to pull this shit on their lifeblood and honored elder statesman. :rolleyes: [*]Just recently, the Academy of Country Music held their annual awards show, one week after the funeral for country legend, June Carter Cash. Long before her introduction to Johnny Cash, June was part of [i]the original[/i] country stars, The Carter Family. She was an icon of country music. So the ACM's must have honored her in grand fashion, right? [i]Wrong!![/i] They gave Reba McEntire a 30 second blurb to read, followed by 5 seconds of a picture of June, before jumping to a commercial. We were stunned. At first, we thought the commercial was the beginning of a video tribute. Very quickly it became apparent they had no intention of saying or doing anything in June's honor beyond the tiny statement read by the MC. Football broadcasts have wonderful highlight blurbs assembled [i]seconds[/i] after a set of downs. These bozos had over a week to devise a fitting tribute to a legend, and adjust the broadcast to accomodate it. They chose to do, basically, nothing. :rolleyes: [*]Country is hardly the only genre with these Top 100 Songs of All Time shows that blow for their suck up stance to current music. That's the business. You shouldn't watch if you expect an evenly balanced judging of what contitutes the best songs of all time. ;) [/list]

[Mike Dawson]

[quote] [b]C'mon... you didn't really expect them to skew this to the greatest songs without obliterating the list with more recent hits, did you?[/b] [/quote]I was thinking something similiar to that as I was reading down the list. Greatness is a pretty relative idea, and I think it would be wrong to say that no great country songs have been written in the past 8 years or so. But I can think of better recent songs than what was on the list. Here are just some off the top of my head that I would think are more deserving of being called great: i'm movin on - rascal flatts that's why i'm here - kenny chesney fool - lee ann womack one more day - diamond rio I think one problem is that it used to be for a hit song you needed a great song, and now the criteria is somewhat different. Take Austin by Blake Shelton for example. The first time I heard that I was floored. That's great hit songwriting to the core. But I'm not sure it's a "great" song, you know? It doesn't feel right to say it in the same breath as He Stopped Loving Her Today. I dunno, I think I'm just talking to hear the voice of my own avatar.

[Jode]

[quote]Originally posted by LiveMusic: [b]And no David Allan Coe? [/b][/quote]Oh my CHRIST - I just realized that "You Never Even Called My By My Name" is not on that list! :eek: Holy shitkickers, Batman! That's the self-described Greatest Country Song Ever Written! It has trains, trucks, mama, prison, rain, AND getting drunk! And fucking LONESTAR makes the list?!? Martha! Git mah shotgun! Ah'm a-goin' huntin' fer sum CMT!

[Mike Dawson]

well i was drunk the day my mom gout out of prison and i went to pick her up in the rain but before i could get to the station in my pickup truck she got runned over by a damned old train isn't that just the way it always goes :cool:

[D. Gauss]

i was scared to look at the list after reading a bunch of these posts, but now that i've seen the list..... it seems about right. i see merle, buck, hank, patsy, johnny, etc all represented. gotta remember that garth brooks sold A LOT of records as did the dixie chicks. that makes those songs quite popular. also remember that the proverbial mid west country music loving housewife of today was born in (gasp) 1980 or so. can't really expect them to know who hank jr. was let alone hank sr.! -d. gauss

[Lee Flier]

As usual, I have to agree with Mr. Gauss. :) Yeah there are some stinkers on there, but I agree with more of it than I expected to. Yes, some of the rankings are pretty screwy though. Then again, I don't expect a whole lot from those kinds of lists... the rock ones are always way worse IMO. And yes it's shameful that there's no David Allan Coe, especially "You Never Even Called Me By My Name"... but the decision was probably, dare I say it, due to political correctness. Coe has recently been in trouble for having made very racist/bigoted remaarks and that probably costs him brownie points in his career.

[LiveMusic]

[quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]...And yes it's shameful that there's no David Allan Coe, especially "You Never Even Called Me By My Name"... but the decision was probably, dare I say it, due to political correctness. Coe has recently been in trouble for having made very racist/bigoted remaarks and that probably costs him brownie points in his career.[/b][/quote]The guy is a great songwriter. Even though Steve Goodman wrote his best hit. Anyway, over the past few years, I became disenchanted with him due to my perception of his racism. "If That Ain't Country"... that is a friggin GREAT country song. Except for the n-word. Man, that pisses me off he put that in there because it is such an awesome song. And I've heard biker guys talk about what he's done in concerts. But I've seen him three times and he's never done what they said. But my concerts weren't biker shows. But in the past few months, somewhere on the web, I think, I read an interview and racism was discussed. His reply was that it is ridiculous... that he had black men in his band from way back when and he denied being racist.

[Jode]

[quote]Originally posted by LiveMusic: [b]Anyway, over the past few years, I became disenchanted with him due to my perception of his racism. "If That Ain't Country"... that is a friggin GREAT country song. Except for the n-word. Man, that pisses me off he put that in there because it is such an awesome song. And I've heard biker guys talk about what he's done in concerts. But I've seen him three times and he's never done what they said. But my concerts weren't biker shows. But in the past few months, somewhere on the web, I think, I read an interview and racism was discussed. His reply was that it is ridiculous... that he had black men in his band from way back when and he denied being racist.[/b][/quote]David Allan Coe is one of those guys who is brilliant at pushing people's buttons. In the song "If That Ain't Country," the n-word is used in the line, "Workin' like a nigger for my room and board." In the proper cultural context - redneck, that is - that's a compliment. It means you busted your ass doing something. In other words, you worked like a slave. We have been trained to believe that any time you hear the word "nigger" out of the mouth of anyone but a black person or a linguistic scholar, it is used in a racist manner. Is it a particularly good idea to use a phrase like "workin' like a nigger" in public? No, and especially not in the hopelessly PC 21st century. does it mean that the guy saying it is a racist? [i]Not necessarily.[/i] Great, I'm sure we've derailed this thread into a discussion of racial politics and English usage by now. Well, anyway, back to the point - so much of that list ain't country, so CMT can kiss my ass - and Coe's, too.

[Botch.]

[quote]Originally posted by LiveMusic: [b]It must have been a woman who composed this. "He Stopped Loving Her Today" MUST be number one. Tammy's song is great but it ain't #1. [/b][/quote]"He Stopped Loving Her Today" is easily the best country vocal performance ever recorded, but those violin glissandi easily knock it out as the best country record, violin glissandi don't belong in country. Dammit, just reread the title of the list, best country [i]song.[/i] Never mind. :freak:

[Jode]

Yep. Have all the fiddle you want, but violins ain't country, so kiss my ass. I thought there was hope for country music with the rise of Garth, Clint Black, and especially Dwight Yoakam, but with the likes of Faith Hill (who actually used to sound like a country girl), I believe we're backsliding into Nash-trash again.

[Lee Flier]

Oh my God, I just realized there is nothing at all on the list by Emmylou Harris! OK that's it, this sucks. :mad:

[Mark Zeger]

Missing: the biggest country instrumental crossover hit of the '70s, "Dueling Banjos". :D Except for the surprising inclusion of Dwight Yoakum, you know there wouldn't be any alt-country on the list. I like to see on the list: "What a Crying Shame" by The Mavericks. Big voice, big hook, great song. Lyle Lovett. k.d. lang. When she was still singing country, lang was arguable the strongest female singer in the genre. "Shadowland"...now there's a legit country music album (though I like "Absolute Torch & Twang" more).

[Tim Mayock]

and no Steve Earle, Gram Parsons or The Byrds

[kylen]

I like all those songs well enough. I'd have to rotate in some 'Smoke, Smoke, Smoke That Cigarette'(Tex Williams), 'Truck Drivin Man' (Commander Cody), and anything by 'Liz Meyer and the Midnight Flyers', you know Texas Swing type stuff, every 3 or 4 songs to get thru the whole list. ...along with some of the other good suggestions, Emmy Lou, Gram, anything with James Burton taking a lead break - including Elvis stuff. That's how I eat my Country.

[fantasticsound]

The sad part is, even the recent stars represented are not there for their best songs. :rolleyes: One highlight, though... John Denver at #18 with, "Country Roads". He was largely ignored or worse, by Music Row in his prime. Country radio was known for NOT playing John Denver tunes, of which there are many classics. The top 25 are pretty good choices, except for The Dixie Chicks, "Wide Open Spaces". If a Chicks song should be there, "When You Were Mine" would be a far better choice, IMO. For that matter, "Travellin' Soldier" would have been better, but it's probably too new to consider among the greatest of all time. Lee Ann Womack's "I Hope You Dance" may end up in the top 100 down the line, but I hardly think it belongs that high. Again, it may be too soon to judge it fairly. Faith Hill is a sweet woman. Tim McGraw is the kind of guy you'd absolutely love working with/for. But Neither "Breathe", nor "It's Your Love" belong anywhere near this list. The latter is such dreck, it just killed me to see fantatics and money make it popular. Tim has much better songs, if he deserves to have one here. "Please Remember Me" may or may not deserve it's #84 ranking, but at least that's debatable. "Killin' Time" is hardly Clint Black's best... No Diamond Rio? Please... :rolleyes: Kenny Rogers' "The Gambler", makes it, but not, "Coward Of The County", or "She Believes In Me"? hmmm.... For the most part I'm happy with the classic country offerings. I know almost every one, and I know every artist represented. I was slightly disappointed to see two of the most sung songs in country put so far down the list, though. "Will The Circle Be Unbroken", and, "You Are My Sunshine" will continue to be sung long after many, even from this list of greats, have been forgotten. They deserved better. My opinion, of course... YMMV. ;)

[Mike Dawson]

[quote] [b]The sad part is, even the recent stars represented are not there for their best songs. [/b] [/quote]I think in alot of cases they took into consideration the impact when the song came out. The Chicks, for example, sort of broke though with Wide Open Spaces. It was the first time they were really taken seriously. And I think It's Your Love marks when Tim and Faith toured together and sort of became 'Tim and Faith'. And even though they kinda suck, they've sold a ton of albums since then. Similiar thing with Brooks n Dunn and Boot Scootin Boogey. I refuse to think that's in the top 100, or even their best song. But I think it was their first big hit, and now they're huge. Probably the same with Clint Black, Leeann Rimes, and alot of other guys on there. I think they're airing the list on CMT on Sunday with performances of the top songs by some of the young punks.

[russrags]

A few weeks ago MTV ranked Miriah Carrey as the BEST singer during the MTV era ?????? I'm sure SALES and air play have a lot to do with determining who get's ranked where. Breath, Amased, I Hope You Dance etc. SOLD more than just a few copies. I WISH David Allan Coe would just dissapear. I've got a special place for him EVERY time I'm in a record store. It gives me great pleasure to take his whole catalog and drop it behind the bin on the floor where all the dust and shit collects. Russ http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-russragsdale

[fantasticsound]

[quote]Originally posted by berkleeboi: [b] [quote] [b]The sad part is, even the recent stars represented are not there for their best songs. [/b] [/quote]I think in alot of cases they took into consideration the impact when the song came out.[/b][/quote]Actually, they asked the people (music historians, musicians, industry insiders, etc.) involved in suggestions for the list to only consider the impact the songs had on them, not sales, etc. Whether they kept to that, who can say? As for Tim & Faith... who cares about them as a duo for this list?? They both charted with a solo song (and I already voiced my opinions on those songs) and this song is a [i]dog[/i]! It sounds like something a mediocre high-school age songwriter might write. Great if you're performing at the high school talent show, maybe, but not as a Top 100 Country Song of All Time. :rolleyes:

[evets]

[quote]Originally posted by fantasticsound: [b] [*]Just recently, the Academy of Country Music held their annual awards show, one week after the funeral for country legend, June Carter Cash. Long before her introduction to Johnny Cash, June was part of [i]the original[/i] country stars, The Carter Family. She was an icon of country music. So the ACM's must have honored her in grand fashion, right? [i]Wrong!![/i] They gave Reba McEntire a 30 second blurb to read, followed by 5 seconds of a picture of June, before jumping to a commercial. We were stunned. At first, we thought the commercial was the beginning of a video tribute. Very quickly it became apparent they had no intention of saying or doing anything in June's honor beyond the tiny statement read by the MC. Football broadcasts have wonderful highlight blurbs assembled [i]seconds[/i] after a set of downs. These bozos had over a week to devise a fitting tribute to a legend, and adjust the broadcast to accomodate it. They chose to do, basically, nothing. [/list][/b][/quote]I can imagine Johnny's thoughts on the matter... [img]http://www-personal.umich.edu/~tehughes/bcms/johnnycash.jpeg[/img]

[Philip OKeefe]

[quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]Oh my God, I just realized there is nothing at all on the list by Emmylou Harris! OK that's it, this sucks. :mad: [/b][/quote]Getta rope! :mad: Yeah, and while the Eagles made it for "Desperado", I'd argue that they had a lot of better "country" songs than that one. Like 'em or not, they certainly have had a huge influence on Nashville. No Steve Earle - sickening. Glad to see Patsy Cline was well represented though.

[Mike Dawson]

what are some of the Eagles better 'country' songs?

[fantasticsound]

[b]evets[/b], are you aware that Johnny used that photo for an ad directed at the Music Row establishment when the first American Recordings album was released to rave reviews and brisk sales? :D Tequila Sunrise is a great "country" Eagles song. :thu:

[Dan South]

There are a lot of good songs on the list, but to have excluded "The Ride", "She Got The Goldmine...", and "The Ride" - and include auto-tuned pop-crap like "I Hope You Dance" - excuse me while I blow snot in CMT's general direction. Desperado? I thought that was California pop, not country? John Denver? Christ, why not just add Bing Crosby to the list? I suspect that this, like most of these "countdowns" is more marketing ploy than definitive musicological analysis.

[Philip OKeefe]

[quote]Originally posted by berkleeboi: [b]what are some of the Eagles better 'country' songs?[/b][/quote]Most of the songs on "Desperado" (the album) are "country". "Twenty One" is definitely "country", from its structure to its lyrics, all the way to the dobro licks. "Doolin Dalton" (both versions) is nearly bluegrass. "Saturday Night", "Tequila Sunrise" and "Bitter Creek" are all pretty "country" too. "Desperado" is probably their most overtly "country" record. The first album has a couple of strongly country influenced gems - "Train Leaves Here This Morning" is spectacular. "Peaceful Easy Feeling" and "Take It Easy", while thought of as "California Country" or just "Country Rock", are both strongly country. If someone from Nashville had written and released those, they would have had no problem fitting into country format radio - at least several years AFTER the Eagles released them, by which time country had felt their influence. "Lyin' Eyes" is a very typical country song structure. Ditto "Hollywood Waltz" and "After The Thrill Is Gone". All from the "One Of These Nights" album. But IMO, the best the Eagles came to a near perfect marriage of country and rock was the "On The Border" CD. Midnight Flyer is probably the most "country" song on that record. Many people can't stand the Eagles - that's fine with me - personal tastes and whatnot... but to deny that they had an influence on country music is, IMO, denying the obvious and would require ignoring the expressed thoughts of several country artists.

[evets]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fantasticsound: [QB][b]evets[/b], are you aware that Johnny used that photo for an ad directed at the Music Row establishment when the first American Recordings album was released to rave reviews and brisk sales? :D Yeah, that's what sent me lookin' for the photo...but are you aware of this shot of Johnny as a baby? [img]http://www-personal.umich.edu/~tehughes/bcms/babyfinger.jpg[/img] :D :D