Kurzweil PC3 info (for real :)

[K K]

Well, it may be the ultimate, for an action that has to physically throw a mass against three strings hard enough to be heard over an orchestra! Modern keyboard simply aren't required to do that.

 

Bingo.

 

Especially the graded thingie, where the bass register gets heavier than the rest of the notes. It's OK to see this in a dedicated digital piano, but IMO such a keyboard becomes a terrible handicap in a synth equipped with a multitude of sounds besides piano.

 

CJ, my guess for the PC3 is a (non-graded) Fatar TP/40. Am I close?

[NuSkoolTone]

Even if the implementation is INGENIOUS, there's no way it's going to be better than the 355MB and 256MB soundsets of the Yammy and Korg.

That's subjective. I like the Kurz sound (PC-2) much better than those you mention. The me, too sound of the 3 bore me.

 

As for the business side, I like having engineers in the States that speak English.

 

So you have played the Motif XS, and Korg M3? Where?

 

If so, you're one of the few since these instruments haven't even started shipping.

 

Also, you talk to the Engineers? I've heard of Cust Service, but the actual Engineers?

[b3_john]

Also, you talk to the Engineers? I've heard of Cust Service, but the actual Engineers?

If you read my XK-1 manual , you'd understand why English fluency is important.

 

John

[burningbusch]

Also, you talk to the Engineers? I've heard of Cust Service, but the actual Engineers?

If you read my XK-1 manual , you'd understand why English fluency is important.

 

John

 

In the "manual" that came with the CME pedal it warns, on multiple pages, not to expose the pedal to thunder. I did everything in my power to heed that warning.

 

Busch.

[NuSkoolTone]

Also, you talk to the Engineers? I've heard of Cust Service, but the actual Engineers?

If you read my XK-1 manual , you'd understand why English fluency is important.

 

John

 

In the "manual" that came with the CME pedal it warns, on multiple pages, not to expose the pedal to thunder. I did everything in my power to heed that warning.

 

Busch.

 

ROFL! OMG you're serious? That's too funny. Point well taken!

[Botch]

Also, you talk to the Engineers? I've heard of Cust Service, but the actual Engineers?

If you read my XK-1 manual , you'd understand why English fluency is important.

 

John

 

In the "manual" that came with the CME pedal it warns, on multiple pages, not to expose the pedal to thunder. I did everything in my power to heed that warning.

 

 

 

Busch.

Good thing KISS doesn't use a keyboard player.

 

[lachesis]

In the "manual" that came with the CME pedal it warns, on multiple pages, not to expose the pedal to thunder. I did everything in my power to heed that warning.

 

Busch.

 

Now I know. If I ever want to sabotage someone's equipment, all I have to do is expose it to thunder.

 

[Mark Schmieder]

To execlass2: I tried sending a PM but it got rejected and also ate my editing buffer, so I don't have the patience to type all of that in again (nor do I remember it).

 

Anyway, I was inviting you to engage me in a discussion in PM regarding backing audio vs. backing MIDI. I spent years doing the latter, and kept running into the "sequencer full" problem, on-stage bloppers (such as forgetting to turn on and/or initialise and/or hook up the MIDI patchbay), note stealing, etc. It was a hard sell for me, but I finally decided two years ago that life would be simpler with backing audio instead, and that there is a reason why almost all bands take that approach now.

 

I wrote this up a lot better the first time around; sorry. My main point is that I am willing to spend time talking to you about the two processes and ways of making each work best given various limitations of equipment. backing audio at least simplifies stage setup and also gives you way more options for sound sources (including actual acoustic instruments :-)). For me there is no looking back, and I did take the other approach for over six years and spent hundreds of hours doing things that way (I actually spend more time now, as I often use my backing track projects as a way of further enhancing my Digital Performer skills as well as getting more familiar with my soft synths and less-used hardware synths).

[C.J. Lewis]

CJ, my guess for the PC3 is a (non-graded) Fatar TP/40. Am I close?

 

You are in fact correct.

[C.J. Lewis]

By the way, someone posted here and/or emailed me about assigning KB3 to separate outputs while still playing, say - piano through the main outs. The answer is yes.

 

Rock on.

[K K]

CJ, my guess for the PC3 is a (non-graded) Fatar TP/40. Am I close?

 

You are in fact correct.

 

Coooool. I hope this PC3 will also be available in Canada when it comes out in the USA, so I can test one.

[resigned]

I would challenge you (and everyone else for that matter) to think about this. How much better can it really get? I know, Ivory is stellar - it's changed my life in the studio. The East West orchestral stuff is off the hook - I am having the same discontentment with my studio/live rig splitting stuff between multiple modules and soft synths as Mark S. is. But how much better do you think we (as the industry) can really achieve? I mean, we're in the business of emulation as keyboard manufacturers. Steinway, Hammond, Wurlitzer, Rhodes, etc., etc. are our targets. Just something to think about.

 

I ernestly hope I am reading your post right and asking the right question because the question of "how much better do you think we (as the industry) can really achieve?" seems simple to ordinary consumers. Maybe it isn't and we should know why.

 

There is widespread belief that manufacturers are short-changing us with hardware piano emulations. Even relatively small sample libraries sound better than the so-called top-rated digital pianos. Sure, Ivory sounds great but even smaller libraries sound better than hardware too. I use Reason Pianos and it's 16-bit 580 MB refill sounds way better than anything I've ever heard come from a hardware piano. And I can buy a 1 GB flash memory card for $20 these days... so the fundemental question is this: why can't manufacturers put more memory into the instruments they sell and give us sample-library quality in their hardware piano emulations? TIA

 

[C.J. Lewis]

I would challenge you (and everyone else for that matter) to think about this. How much better can it really get? I know, Ivory is stellar - it's changed my life in the studio. The East West orchestral stuff is off the hook - I am having the same discontentment with my studio/live rig splitting stuff between multiple modules and soft synths as Mark S. is. But how much better do you think we (as the industry) can really achieve? I mean, we're in the business of emulation as keyboard manufacturers. Steinway, Hammond, Wurlitzer, Rhodes, etc., etc. are our targets. Just something to think about.

 

I ernestly hope I am reading your post right and asking the right question because the question of "how much better do you think we (as the industry) can really achieve?" seems simple to ordinary consumers. Maybe it isn't and we should know why.

 

There is widespread belief that manufacturers are short-changing us with hardware piano emulations. Even relatively small sample libraries sound better than the so-called top-rated digital pianos. Sure, Ivory sounds great but even smaller libraries sound better than hardware too. I use Reason Pianos and it's 16-bit 580 MB refill sounds way better than anything I've ever heard come from a hardware piano. And I can buy a 1 GB flash memory card for $20 these days... so the fundemental question is this: why can't manufacturers put more memory into the instruments they sell and give us sample-library quality in their hardware piano emulations? TIA

 

I believe that I know someone @ R&D who may have some input into this as well, but first, let me give it a shot. I completely agree that manufacturers could do better with sample size / quality in hardware based instruments. Lamborghini could make faster cars. Sony could make bigger plasma TV's. Paris Hilton could record better tunes. <-- where did THAT come from?!?

 

The only thing standing in between current technology and tomorrow's technology is $$$. R&D resources are taxed at virtually every company in our industry, both dollars and people. Those companies who have lots of $$$ and people have 35 different focus points to shoot them at (i.e. - Yamaha), therefore, more money is needed to augment current research into the next big thing.

 

Based on your post, I would venture a guess that you see the coming takeover of virtual instruments in the pro market. The manufacturers see it, too. Since we're in the business of making product that sells, we have to focus our efforts on what will sell today so we can make what will sell tomorrow.

 

Product development isn't as fast as anyone would like it to be. There are very few companies in any industry who can turn an idea into reality, even within a couple of years. Look how long it took Apple to release the iPhone (which I MUST have, BTW).

 

Believe me, as a pro / touring musician myself, I am frothing at the mouth looking at the industry and seeing what's available to us today - it's hard to imagine what we'll see by 2010.

 

To answer your direct question, I believe that for some manufacturers, it's simply an issue of knowledge / versatility, others, an issue of capital. This may be a great topic for a new thread that we can involve some other manufacturers in as well. The laser sight on me is starting to burn a hole :grin:

[C.J. Lewis]

Oh, Cy - I didn't tell you? We're not actually going to release them in Canada. Something about too much thunder.

[ITGITC]

The laser sight on me is starting to burn a hole :grin:

 

Ouch

 

No kidding guys. Give CJ a break.

 

Your argument could also be aimed at Korg, Roland and Yamaha. So where are their guys when you post a question like this?

 

I know we're all very passionate regarding the instruments we play. Why don't we give the good folks at Kurzweil the opportunity to sort out their retail channels and get the PC3 in stores before we start blindly bashing it sight unseen or unheard?

 

CJ has been very generous with his time here. I think we owe it to him to lighten up before he logs off of KC and starts spending most of his time at some other forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[keyoctave]

The laser sight on me is starting to burn a hole :grin:

 

Ouch

 

No kidding guys. Give CJ a break.

 

Your argument could also be aimed at Korg, Roland and Yamaha. So where are their guys when you post a question like this?

 

I know we're all very passionate regarding the instruments we play. Why don't we give the good folks at Kurzweil the opportunity to sort out their retail channels and get the PC3 in stores before we start blindly bashing it sight unseen or unheard?

 

CJ has been very generous with his time here. I think we owe it to him to lighten up before he logs off of KC and starts spending most of his time at some other forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

+1

[resigned]

C.J.:

 

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. It does and doesn't answer my question exactly but I assure you that I did not intend to target you in any way. It's a question many of us have in mind as it applies to all manufacturers across the board. Your effort to reply to it speaks volumes about your company's willingness to engage the customer directly.

 

[mildbill]

In today's softsynth world, the PC3 is almost the perfect combination of controller keyboard, real world usable sounds, and synthesis capabilities.

(and I haven't even seen one yet).

 

Seriously, it's got good controller capabilities, will be able to use the VAST system, and includes enough sounds to handle almost any situation - what more could you ask for?

 

I hope they'll get the distribution sorted out well enough so that people will be able to audition them.

[K K]

Oh, Cy - We're not actually going to release them in Canada. Something about too much thunder.

 

Hmmmm... My English is not very good, so I suppose you are kidding, right? :grin: Otherwise, it would be sad.

[ITGITC]

Oh, Cy - We're not actually going to release them in Canada. Something about too much thunder.

 

Hmmmm... My English is not very good, so I suppose you are kidding, right? :grin: Otherwise, it would be sad.

 

Silly Cydonia. CJ is making reference to THIS POST: :grin:

 

Also, you talk to the Engineers? I've heard of Cust Service, but the actual Engineers?

If you read my XK-1 manual , you'd understand why English fluency is important.

 

John

 

In the "manual" that came with the CME pedal it warns, on multiple pages, not to expose the pedal to thunder. I did everything in my power to heed that warning.

 

Busch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iLaw]

 

Cydonia,

 

Il te taquine.

 

[K K]

Ah OK, I missed that earlier I guess. :grin:

 

Hey, I see iLaw speaks French too.

[ITGITC]

 

Hey, I see iLaw speaks French too.

 

Nah... He's just teasing you.

[yoda]

Don't get too hung up on whether Kurzweil is using the "same ole samples" or brand new ones. Sound quality is much more than just the samples. As a few examples, it is influenced by the sample lookup intepolation scheme, envelop control - i.e., attack, sustain, decay, release, including how many levels, compression/decompression technique for the samples, etc. And don't forget the rest of the audio path - D/A converters, other filters/algorithms, preamps.

 

Sound quality is all about the total package. Kurzweil has always been good in this respect. Give them a chance - I'm willing to bet they deliver.

[C.J. Lewis]

I think we owe it to him to lighten up before he logs off of KC and starts spending most of his time at some other forum.

 

There's another forum out there?!?

[Sergievsky]

CJ, are we looking at July release? Or hopefully earlier? I will be in the US of A July and would love to hold off getting a keyboard until then. Hope you can get this to market pronto before people spend their money on the flashy M3 and XS.

 

In the meantime I'll see if I can resurrect my Roland A80 yet again by getting some key rubber pads...but hurry up already!

[C.J. Lewis]

CJ, are we looking at July release? Or hopefully earlier? I will be in the US of A July and would love to hold off getting a keyboard until then. Hope you can get this to market pronto before people spend their money on the flashy M3 and XS.

 

In the meantime I'll see if I can resurrect my Roland A80 yet again by getting some key rubber pads...but hurry up already!

 

Honestly, I've probably said too much about the release date already. That doesn't mean we won't release in July -- this is just the target we were told by the people working on it. I'm telling my dealers late summer, early fall and hoping for quicker.

[C.J. Lewis]

Don't get too hung up on whether Kurzweil is using the "same ole samples" or brand new ones. Sound quality is much more than just the samples. As a few examples, it is influenced by the sample lookup intepolation scheme, envelop control - i.e., attack, sustain, decay, release, including how many levels, compression/decompression technique for the samples, etc. And don't forget the rest of the audio path - D/A converters, other filters/algorithms, preamps.

 

Sound quality is all about the total package. Kurzweil has always been good in this respect. Give them a chance - I'm willing to bet they deliver.

 

Thank you, kind sir - whoever you are.

 

hmmm - Jedi master, you are NOT...

[zahush76]

In regards to keyboard emus, how much better can it really get? Honestly I think we've still got a ways to go with these emulations. The problem is cost for mass production, and R&D to bring to reality. Anyone who has used Universal Audio's UAD-1 knows how nice some of the modeling can get. IMO, they're doing it right. At least as far as electronics go. I think Yamaha's FDSP was a good start, Nord with the electro and pickup placement. For these Keyboards,(B3, Wurly, Rhodes)I don't think anyone's modeled the PREAMP? That's part of the sound. Ask any guitar player how important the preamp is. Speakeasy markets a preamp for the clonewheel guys to get one step closer. And this IS a game of steps and inches isn't it?

 

actually the nord stage has a preamp emulation of three different amps. and regarding keyboard emulations - the nord stage is currently the keyboard that does that the best.

[Prague]

And don't forget the rest of the audio path - D/A converters, other filters/algorithms, preamps.

Exactly.

 

I find most of the big 3 gear to be consumer level in these areas.

 

My PC-2 has the BEST A2D convertors for control pedals. The cheapest of pedals respond very smooth (no zipper effect).

 

As for the D2A, the audio outputs are very clean, balanced audio outputs. Plus, it has S/PDIF and AES digital outs with a selectable bit depth from 16 to 24 bits. Very professional.