Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Boxyness:


Dr. Ellwood

Recommended Posts

Last night I was over at another guitar players house looking at some used gearhe and some of his band had and where going to sell. In one of the piles was a Peavey 5150 2x12 combo amp. I plugged into it with a ES175 Gibson and it sounded loud but BOXEY? Boxey is the only way I can explain the dull low frequency thud when I hit the chord. I thought maybe it was the guitar itself so put a Strat into it and same thing! I usually associate this with closed back cabinets that are not tuned right? Have you ever run into this problem with an open back amp combo?
Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 23
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I know the 5150 combo sounds is the only combo that really sounds like a closed back.

 

Personally, I don't care for the tone of those amps anyways. They are a good amp for a metal player but they lack dynamics and sound really small and compressed for my tastes.

 

I still woudl prefer a Classic 30 to a 5150 combo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup, my Fender Studio 85 was 'way boxy when I got it. It sounded like a 12" driver through a 10" hole.

 

Solved the problem by removing stock Fender speaker and applying Celestion G12-65.

 

Opened the tone right up.

 

Geoff

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music

The Geoff - blame Caevan!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you move the amp?

 

Boxy is a midrange condition, and it can be acerbated by the location of the amp (and your ears) in the room, in relationship to walls and floor and ceiling.

 

Bill

"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

 

Steve Martin

 

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Bill@Welcome Home Studios:

Did you move the amp?

 

Boxy is a midrange condition, and it can be acerbated by the location of the amp (and your ears) in the room, in relationship to walls and floor and ceiling.

 

Bill

It was just in the middle of the room, sitting by itself,nothing around it or in back of it, I was standing about 10 feet away from it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by ellwood:

???? HUH? it looks like the back of my old Peavey Renown or my Fender combos? aprox half the back is open, one paney is about six inches from the base of the cabinet up ..then there is a gap of about another six inches then I think there might have been some kind of brace from side to side? I'm stumped!

Huh, that's funny; the one's I've seen and plugged into- including a friend's, as well as models displayed in shops- all had a removable panel that completely sealed-off the speaker section pf the cab. The top part was open in back, for ventilation of the hot tubes and transformers and all. FWIW, I believe that the stock speakers were Peavey's take on a Celestion of one kind or another.

 

My friend once removed that back-panel for a while, and we all agreed that it sounded decidedly better with it on, no matter how much knob-twiddling you tried.

 

I found that one of the keys to the 5150 was its resonance control (I think that's what they called it). It sounds kinda like an extra bass control, fine-tuning the overall depth and thump of whatever cab you play it through.

 

For heavy tube overdrive and distortion, I liked it.

 

Having good tubes in it- and having it properly biased- made a big difference, according to the guy who owned it...

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would you believe I found some dolt using the term vintage to describe a Peavey Pacer. :freak: Worse than that, he's trying to sell one for almost $450! :rolleyes:

 

It was never a good amp to begin with. There's a fine line between vintage and old crap, and the Pacer is so far on the old crap side it's ridiculous.

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman

 

Soundclick

fntstcsnd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Caevan_O'Shite:

Originally posted by ellwood:

???? HUH? it looks like the back of my old Peavey Renown or my Fender combos? aprox half the back is open, one paney is about six inches from the base of the cabinet up ..then there is a gap of about another six inches then I think there might have been some kind of brace from side to side? I'm stumped!

Huh, that's funny; the one's I've seen and plugged into- including a friend's, as well as models displayed in shops- all had a removable panel that completely sealed-off the speaker section pf the cab. The top part was open in back, for ventilation of the hot tubes and transformers and all. FWIW, I believe that the stock speakers were Peavey's take on a Celestion of one kind or another.

 

My friend once removed that back-panel for a while, and we all agreed that it sounded decidedly better with it on, no matter how much knob-twiddling you tried.

 

I found that one of the keys to the 5150 was its resonance control (I think that's what they called it). It sounds kinda like an extra bass control, fine-tuning the overall depth and thump of whatever cab you play it through.

 

For heavy tube overdrive and distortion, I liked it.

 

Having good tubes in it- and having it properly biased- made a big difference, according to the guy who owned it...

Wow if it wasn't so far back out to his house I would go look at it again! I think I'm gonna call him though!!! I don't want to buy it but now I'm wondering, I'm sure there was a open or semi open deal in the back (fast look) ya I'm gonna see whats up...but it sure was a boingey boxey thuddey sounding thing!!!! :eek:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by ellwood:

it sounded loud but BOXEY?

DUDE !!!!!!!!! The only other guy who has understood the term "Boxey" when i used it is my buddy Paul!!!

 

I had never heard that term anywhere, and i believe alot of other cats such as yourself have instinctively tapped into the discernment of "Boxey"

 

I totally know what you are talking about. It's quite hard to describe, but you really have to be there to comprehend it

 

Ellwood, I don't care what Jimmie Vaughn says about you, but you're alright

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know what I think of as "boxy" sounding... claustrophobic, small, lacking in real presence, like it's coming out of a cardboard-box...

 

Maybe you found a bad 5150; they've gained a bad rep for consistancy. I liked the ones I happened to play, but that's only two, maybe three.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I know what you mean by a "boxy" sound.

 

In the mid to late 80s, I had a Crate 212 combo amp. It had a dull muddy midrange sound no matter what I did with it.

 

I brought it with me once to an audition. The rest of the band told me to either show up with a different amp next time or don't show up at all.

 

The next rehersal I brought a Marshall half-stack and all was well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Caputo:

Originally posted by KPB:

The rest of the band told me to either show up with a different amp next time or don't show up at all.

 

The next rehersal I brought a Marshall half-stack and all was well.

Oh, but dude, i thought tone was "all in the fingers" :rolleyes:

 

Isn't that right?

When it's not impeded, it is... :D:cool:

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Caevan here is the scoop!! that amp was a 5150 HEAD..put into a open backed 2X12 enclosure!! I KNEW it was openbacked..wow that thing sure didn't sound good at all but very loud I gotta admitt. Wonder why someone didn't put it in a closed back 2X12 or a closed 4X12 and just leave it a head and bottom?? Strange,they couldn't have thought it sounded better! :confused:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Caputo:

Originally posted by ellwood:

it sounded loud but BOXEY?

DUDE !!!!!!!!! The only other guy who has understood the term "Boxey" when i used it is my buddy Paul!!!

 

I had never heard that term anywhere, and i believe alot of other cats such as yourself have instinctively tapped into the discernment of "Boxey"

 

I totally know what you are talking about. It's quite hard to describe, but you really have to be there to comprehend it

 

Ellwood, I don't care what Jimmie Vaughn says about you, but you're alright

Caputo! yea, it does descripe it pretty well once you hear that you just know you don't want it! Bill says it's a mid range problem..I wonder if you can eq that prolem right out of existance??? or would you end up messing up some other frequencies???
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by ellwood:

Originally posted by Caputo:

Originally posted by ellwood:

it sounded loud but BOXEY?

DUDE !!!!!!!!! The only other guy who has understood the term "Boxey" when i used it is my buddy Paul!!!

 

I had never heard that term anywhere, and i believe alot of other cats such as yourself have instinctively tapped into the discernment of "Boxey"

 

I totally know what you are talking about. It's quite hard to describe, but you really have to be there to comprehend it

 

Ellwood, I don't care what Jimmie Vaughn says about you, but you're alright

Caputo! yea, it does descripe it pretty well once you hear that you just know you don't want it! Bill says it's a mid range problem..I wonder if you can eq that prolem right out of existance??? or would you end up messing up some other frequencies???
I've always thought "boxey" meant it sounded like the cab was still in the cardboard box. I.e. almost dead, pretty lifeless. Not only just a thunky bottom end but a choked mid and a top end like muted brass.

 

I always thought it was caused by the hole for the driver being too small and causing all sorts of standing interference waves.

Born on the Bayou

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, if it's a head & you were interested, it would make sense to listen to it through your 4x12, wouldn't it?

 

It might be sensational.

 

Then again, it might not.......

 

:0)

 

Geoff

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=738517&content=music

The Geoff - blame Caevan!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Geoff B.:

Well, if it's a head & you were interested, it would make sense to listen to it through your 4x12, wouldn't it?

 

It might be sensational.

 

Then again, it might not.......

 

:0)

 

Geoff

No I wasn't interested in it at all. I was looking at some other equipment and it was there, I just wanted to play the ES175 he had there really.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...