Dave Mathews, What a Knucklehead!

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Darklava:

Originally posted by Billster:

I heard a rumor Jimmie Vaughan is going to tour with DMB

Then it would really be over ellmo's head NK

I am tired, I just got home from the gig but I would like to know exactly what you mean by your comment? I take the NK to mean not kidding? So what is over my head?

[Funk Jazz]

Originally posted by Darklava:

Geeez I wish I had a drummer and bass player that

good.....Lets not have 3 pages of DM bashing.

too late. welcome to the new guitar forum

[Funk Jazz]

Originally posted by Billster:

Don't feed the troll, please.

teee hee hee +1

[Tone Taster]

Ellwood, you have to admit that starting a thread about someone and then closing it w/the phrase "what a knucklehead" doesn't really show an intention of approaching this with any objectivity

[Darklava]

Originally posted by ellwood:

Originally posted by Darklava:

Originally posted by Billster:

I heard a rumor Jimmie Vaughan is going to tour with DMB

Then it would really be over ellmo's head NK

I am tired, I just got home from the gig but I would like to know exactly what you mean by your comment? I take the NK to mean not kidding? So what is over my head?

Yes you are correct Not Kidding! but I guess it's

my fault for even looking at your thread,although

sometimes you have good things to say a lot of

times it's who's a hack,lame,the other gender

bla bla bla.Guess I have the wrong idea about

music,what it's really all about...you know what I'm saying?Sorry for talkin smack Ellwood but

you bring out the bad side.

 

Welcome to the new forum....fer sure!

[D_dup3]

Having thought about this a bit, I offer this: whether we like DMB or not, it's amistake to view him as a "knucklehead"*.

From what I've read over the years, he, or his management, is quite skilled a marketing (making millions of dollars per year just in T-shirt sales, for instance) & he's doing quite well financially.

Even if one dislikes his music, that's hardly an indication of being a knucklehead.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Darklava:

Originally posted by ellwood:

Originally posted by Darklava:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Billster:

I heard a rumor Jimmie Vaughan is going to tour with DMB

Then it would really be over ellmo's head

NK

I am tired, I just got home from the gig but I would like to know exactly what you mean by your comment? I take the NK to mean not kidding? So what is over my head?

Yes you are correct Not Kidding! but I guess it's

my fault for even looking at your thread,although

sometimes you have good things to say a lot of

times it's who's a hack,lame,the other gender

bla bla bla.Guess I have the wrong idea about

music,what it's really all about...you know what I'm saying?Sorry for talkin smack Ellwood but

you bring out the bad side.

 

Welcome to the new forum....fer sure!

---

I thought you meant that their music was over my head intellectually and that it was good but I just couldn't appreciate it. If in a thread or in the title of a original post, I say something negative about a band or a single performer it is my opinion. I don't expect for everyone to agree with me (in fact I would think they would not) but what I do expect is conversation back and forth. In this specific case about DM, I said I went to a DM concert and MY opinion was what I stated, why would I not say what I really thought about the concert? I don't feel any responsibility to sugar coat a musical opinion.

[The Bear Jew]

Well... I agree with Ellwood in this case...

 

Perhaps not as stringently... but yeah. I agree.

I find DMB's music boring, and I personally don't give a damn how skilled the rhythm section is... because the songs are just dull to me. But, then again, I generally find the music of most "jam bands" kind of trite.

 

I know a lot of folks who love Carter Buford and what-his-name on bass, and honestly, I can appreciate that those guys are good players who do their best with the material they have... but... once again, I come back to the songs... which, once again, I must say, are pretty much boring to me. Believe me, I can appreciate a subtle song and carefully nuanced playing... but... These songs just kind of lay there. I don't see that as subtlety... I see is as plain ol' dullness.

 

As a foil, I'd say Joni Mitchell had subtle songs with a band of killer musicians... and that appealed to me... because she also wrote interesting songs with great lyrics, catchy melodies and innovative arrangements.

 

IMO, DMB doesn't hold a candle to Joni's work.

 

Plus.. I really hate the smell of pachouli.

[fantasticsound]

Not saying anyone else should or does share this opinion, but I've yet to hear anything from DMB that hits me as anything other than boring.

 

That is, of course, just my opinion based on what I've heard from DMB

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by d:

Having thought about this a bit, I offer this: whether we like DMB or not, it's amistake to view him as a "knucklehead"*.

From what I've read over the years, he, or his management, is quite skilled a marketing (making millions of dollars per year just in T-shirt sales, for instance) & he's doing quite well financially.

Even if one dislikes his music, that's hardly an indication of being a knucklehead.

Fair enough D... he and his manager are skilled marketeers,who promote,and perform boring grey mundane and blah work.

[ihategarybettman]

Count me in with CMDN and the others who find the DMB's music boring. The majority of his songs sound pretty similar to me, blending together in one long, monotonous sameness.

 

Also, while I appreciate the chops this band has, I feel the drummer, particularly on the band's earlier records, waaaay overplayed. He's less needlessly busy on the latest disc and the music's (marginally) better for it.

 

That said, I'd rather listen to a day's worth of DMB music to 10 minutes of the average rapper's output.

[Caevan O’Shite]

While I've never felt compelled to buy any DMB CD's or concert-tickets, and liked some of their songs that've reached my ear well enough, and some just haven't done anything much either-way for me, I feel that they are all excellent musicians, and FELLOW, BROTHER MUSICIANS to us all here. "Knucklehead", while being kinda tame, is still a little uncalled for and inaccurate. At least, in my opinion, "FWIW".

 

I'd certainly take 'em over Kenny G or Kid Rock, any day, not to mention all the cookie-cutter lingerie "divas" and boy-bands and... much of what makes radio rotation these days. (FWIW, I've been less than impressed with most of what's made radio rotation for, well, what, the past three 'n a-half decades, though.)

 

Overall, I'm kinda indifferent about most of their music, but I'd be psyched to hang or jam with any of 'em from the DMB.

 

"Bus $4!+ incident"? Give me a break! By these contemporary 'standards', the Who, Led Zeppelin and Grand Funk aughtta be lynched by a group of hotel owners, insurance companies, and the D.O.A.R.!

[Dr. Ellwood]

"the Who, Led Zeppelin and Grand Funk aughtta be lynched by a group of hotel owners, insurance companies"

 

Do WE know forsure the bands did not pay for the damage?

 

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Caevan_O'Shite:

While I've never felt compelled to buy any DMB CD's or concert-tickets, and liked some of their songs that've reached my ear well enough, and some just haven't done anything much either-way for me, I feel that they are all excellent musicians, and FELLOW, BROTHER MUSICIANS to us all here. "Knucklehead", while being kinda tame, is still a little uncalled for and inaccurate. At least, in my opinion, "FWIW"...

Be quiet, fellow knucklehead!

 

(BTW - I agree all the way 'round. Never agreed with the knucklehead... Of course I took that comment, given my association of the word "knucklehead" with the Three Stooges, totally tongue in cheek.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Originally posted by ellwood:

"the Who, Led Zeppelin and Grand Funk aughtta be lynched by a group of hotel owners, insurance companies"

 

Do WE know forsure the bands did not pay for the damage?

 

I was just commenting on a prevailing attitude these days of political-correctness B.S. concerning behavior and action.

 

Would paying out cash for damages due to ones behavior- especially repeatedly- excuse said behavior? Can throwing money fix anything and everything?

 

For years, stuff that'd really p!$$ you off if it happened to you has been celebrated as mythic, epic folklore and legend. Now somebody's rented tour-bus poots forth at somebody else, somewhere, sounding on the surface like a typical accident of some sort. I mean, "these things happen". A number of explanatory scenarios come to mind. Do televisions being thrown out of high-rise windows, for one teensy semi-hypothetical example, "happen"? I bet if it nearly (or did) hit your son, it wouldn't seem so to you!

 

I'm NOT suggesting that those classic acts cited as example be lynched or even sent frowny-face postcards, I'm just making a point that THINGS SURE HAVE CHANGED, AND, MAN, ARE THEY WEIRD.

[Bejeeber]

I saw Dave Matthews play and sing several of his tunes solo on TV and I was impressed and entertained by his talent and his inventive guitar playing.

 

I liked him a lot better that way than with the full band arrangements behind him.

 

As far as the songwriting is concerned, I can't say one of his songs ever really grabbed me, or sounded as if it was deeply inspired.

[Guitarzan]

i have seen one video at a friends house once and it seemed unique.

DMB is the opposite of Motorhead, which is ok but i lean in the direction of Motorhead so my opinion would be biased.

it is only an opinion anyway.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Knucklehead is a term of endearment that is used in much the same way as NEIL suggested. My dad always called me that when he wanted to kid around with me and got me in a headlock until I said Uncle! I bet ya one thing though about fellow musicians, if DM came to see my band play he would not be very kind either! and that's ok it would be mutual disrespect I am sure.

[Caevan O’Shite]

O.K., that's cool, things often come off a little exaggerated to one extreme or another when seen in print; not unlike "the Who, Led Zeppelin and Grand Funk aughtta be lynched by a group of hotel owners, insurance companies" minus the preface of "by these contemporary 'standards'"...

 

Seriously, though, what makes you believe that DM or his compadres would dis your band's performance?

[Dr. Ellwood]

Well for one thing we don't do any original material so I would assume his attitude might be the same as some of the guys here that stick up their noses at doing covers and no original material. If these guys are stuffy about doing covers why would someone like DM be any different when they have had commercial success? If unknown writers are aloof about it why would a known successful band be different than them? See the logic?

[Caevan O’Shite]

Well, while I can't speak for DMB personel, I personaly prefer to do my own original stuff... PARTLY 'CAUSE I JUST PLAIN $UCK AT DOING COVERS!!

 

Seriously, I recall reading that EVH said pretty much the same thing once in an interview.

 

And, seriously, I really like hearing a well done live cover of a good song, either close to the original or re-made in a cool new way.

 

I have a lot of respect for working, gigging cover-musicians who can really nail it and please people. I'm just a play-at-home hack these days, with little real gigging experience behind me. I just love music, and guitars. I love talking to guys and girls in bands if I'm out somewhere that they're playing, talking gear, musical ideas, the tunes they cover...

 

On the other hand, there are plenty of not-so-good cover-bands out there, that'll make me cringe at times; but even then, I'm not gonna be a jerk to 'em, maybe I wouldn't do any better on some covers, maybe I would on others, but they're just folks doing what they wanna do 'cause they like it, right? Unless they have some ridiculously irritating attitude, I've got no problem with them, either...

[Dr. Ellwood]

I just started to work with this version of Cool Edit 2000 and did some multi track recording. I just did three guitar parts ..two electric ..one acoustic (groan) and on bass part. It sounded pretty good actually except everyting I write sounds like Classic Rock!!! but the experience of doing the recording myself was great fun! and I got to use my new USB mic too! Anyway about my last post, I know for sure that guys that have had commercial success as writing band members of know groups like what my bands do and many of them really like our versions of their recordings, that in itself is rewarding to me.

[Tone Taster]

I believe that we (myself included) get to "polar" on issues.

There's the all-orig premise and the all cov approach.

 

One group says that your selling out or unimaginative and the other says, we gotta pay the bills and this is how I'm making my money so shut up, etc . .

 

There are bands such as PHISH who have pretty good compositions (jam sections excluded), but who also pick some choice covers and have a good time

 

A band i was in had a great time as an orig/cover band

 

We were a white boy funk/rock group and when we did covers we would do Beatles tunes with a Fishbone, Chili peppers, or even Green Day vibe.

 

We had this Living colour hyperfunk version of Hush wich was pretty fun

 

We would then sneak in our originals immediately after the cover arrangement which sounded like one of our tunes with out a break in between.

 

After the last note we would stop, hear much applause, and then announce the second tune which we played after the cover as one of our originals

 

See, if you announce to the audience that you are about to play an original, people close their ears and go get a drink, play pool/darts, etc . . .

 

But if you do a hittin' cover, you draw 'em in then go right into an original and announce it AFTER the last note

 

It Works

[Dr. Ellwood]

It works if you have original material to perform. We don't write any. We have done other peoples original material that local writers have asked us to do. They have sent or gave me demos of it at a gig or mail it too me or drop it off here and if we like it we will work it up. A couple of writers even came to our rehearsals and recorded us doing their material and used it as a demo piece.

[Tone Taster]

Addendum(It's amazing what happens after you take a leak)

 

It comes down to this Discipline and Vision

 

Most of the time, but not all the time, the all orig cats lack the skill, chops, and ear to do covers.

 

But, some of those cats do have the skills, but want to do something original due to being weary of the cover band scene

 

The cats who are in the all cover scenario I believe walk in fear of losing their job like they are going to be banished from the plantation if they do an original or something.

Alot of these cats need to tap into their imagination more, and take achance playing their originals out and not walk in fear of club owners or union bosses. (Unless the contract SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS originals)

[Tone Taster]

Missed your previous post ellwood.

 

That's pretty cool that you guys do that. Sounds interesting

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Caputo:

Addendum(It's amazing what happens after you take a leak)

 

It comes down to this Discipline and Vision

 

Most of the time, but not all the time, the all orig cats lack the skill, chops, and ear to do covers.

 

But, some of those cats do have the skills, but want to do something original due to being weary of the cover band scene

 

The cats who are in the all cover scenario I believe walk in fear of losing their job like they are going to be banished from the plantation if they do an original or something.

Alot of these cats need to tap into their imagination more, and take achance playing their originals out and not walk in fear of club owners or union bosses. (Unless the contract SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS originals)

In most cases my band does not do any originals that are not known and popular things. If we are going to do a original thing by a local writer, we have cleared it with the club owner and have introduced the writer ON STAGE before we do it. The writer does not ever play the tune with us, usually because he does not want too! but he sure is smiling out there in the audience.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by Caputo:

Missed your previous post ellwood.

 

That's pretty cool that you guys do that. Sounds interesting

Yes, the writers really like to hear their stuff done live and with our twist and many times they say they will remix or rewrite parts based on what they hear us do. One guy talked me into comming to his studio and put down the lead guitar track for him that was much the same as I did with it live. I said that what he had heard us do live was the result of the interaction between the guys in my band, he said that he could never get that kind of spontanious feeling in a cold studio atmosphere. That and he really was not a very good guitar player. He had and has great lyric talent though.

[skipclone 1]

Ya know Ellwood, I don`t know the scene in your area but it may surprise you to know that there are just as many cats-I`ve run into a number of them-who believe that ONLY bands who do covers know their stuff. They are the ones who get multiple requests for bookings on the same night, they are the ones who can say from experience what gear holds up under stress and what doesn`t, they are the ones who can read a crowd right away and know whan it`s time to change the set list, they are the ones who know how to negotiate the best deal with club owners. To be honest, sometimes you get defensive about what you`re doing and to me it just sounds weird. Totally different from my experience. People who do originals are often forced to do benefit shows, play to smaller crowds, therefore shelling out more of their own investment to be heard, do more multi-band shows where the crowd may forget the first two or three acts by the end of the night.

For one guitarist I used to work with, the studio musician was the ultimate guy. Knows how to dial in a sound right off, has to be musically literate and know how to deal with people who aren`t, etc. It`s a matter of perspective, mon. The naysayers are always going to be there, screw `em.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

Ya know Ellwood, I don`t know the scene in your area but it may surprise you to know that there are just as many cats-I`ve run into a number of them-who believe that ONLY bands who do covers know their stuff. They are the ones who get multiple requests for bookings on the same night, they are the ones who can say from experience what gear holds up under stress and what doesn`t, they are the ones who can read a crowd right away and know whan it`s time to change the set list, they are the ones who know how to negotiate the best deal with club owners. To be honest, sometimes you get defensive about what you`re doing and to me it just sounds weird. Totally different from my experience. People who do originals are often forced to do benefit shows, play to smaller crowds, therefore shelling out more of their own investment to be heard, do more multi-band shows where the crowd may forget the first two or three acts by the end of the night.

For one guitarist I used to work with, the studio musician was the ultimate guy. Knows how to dial in a sound right off, has to be musically literate and know how to deal with people who aren`t, etc. It`s a matter of perspective, mon. The naysayers are always going to be there, screw `em.

I do agree with ya Skip, and all those things you meantioned are very true especially if you have been doing it for along time. I guess I was only refering to some guys on the forum here, well only a couple I guess to be honest who have a stuck up attitude about writing. In real day to day musical life here I have not run into any of these, but again I dont really hang out with writers except for the times I meantioned about playing their original tunes live.