3rdAct

Possible... But I already have a hard time getting the sound guy to set the keys' volume appropriately -- if the audience does the mix, the only thing coming out of the PA might be vocals and lead guitar!

No one who is trying to play well wants to be the one making the mistake -- especially right at that moment! But if bandmates work well together, they tend to smile or laugh together (rather than be upset) because we all do it. And they tend to try to help bail each other out by finding a way to carry on. Sometimes it even makes for one of the more interesting parts of the show for the band because it's not routine! It also turns out that this is where some of the best stories come from!

Yes, I am fortunate that the whole band is on the same page. Hopefully the bandleader will be able to make some headway. Yes, this is the problem. Our guy has good gear, knows how to set it all up, and is very reliable. All great. Because of that he thinks of himself as a sound guy. But the listening and mixing skills are just not there. Honestly, though, if he was just good at taking input from the band, it would probably work out much better, if not ideal.

Thanks Wes and Dan. Our band will have to see if we want to try mixing from stage, but doesn't sound like it would be my first choice! And, yes, I try hard to set my patches at consistent levels. I've also tried turning up a little during solos, so at least the keys could be heard then. But the sound guy usually brings it back down.

It sounds like some keyboard or guitar players mix the band from stage. How hard is this to do? I imagine it could be quite distracting, especially if you had to ride the levels somewhat. Otherwise, this could potentially be a good option in general.

Thanks for the comments (and support!). Currently, many things are on the table for us. Get a new person.... Mix the band ourselves and send him the mix.... Hire a real sound guy and a separate company that brings equipment... etc. We're still working through it. Fortunately, all the band members are on the same page. Our current guy is reliable, has decent equipment, is always set up on time, and so on.... He's not cheap, but not the most expensive we've come across (and can't afford). The problem is that he cannot do sound! Worse -- he thinks he's great and won't take input! There are other problems with his sound too (besides what I initially described) -- I just had to share his "reasoning" regarding keys in the mix because ... it needed to be shared! Our bandleader is going to see if he can improve the situation overall. Hopefully he will be successful. If not, we'll be going with a better option.

I tried going in this direction, but all I got was some variant of, "so have you ever run sound?" Clearly not looking for any feedback....

We work with this sound guy and get along with him pretty well. But he always makes the keys inaudible in the mix. (We know because we record the shows.) I"ve asked him if he could bring them up. Even some of my bandmates have asked him. A couple of people at shows have told me, 'I see you playing (e.g., the piano parts in Roadhouse Blues), but don"t hear anything.' So I finally asked him why he doesn"t make the keys audible in the mix. His response basically boils down to this: if you can distinctly hear the keys, that means their level is higher than that of everything else, and thus too loud. Instead, he insisted, the keys have to be 'balanced' in the mix, which means they should not be heard 'above' everything else, so you won't hear them distinctly. (Of course, I pointed out things like: when the keys can be heard, everything else could still be heard too, but to no avail.) This is one sound guy"s take â perhaps some other sound guys also think this, given how often keys are mixed out, even at pro shows.

I play blues/rock and some pop and use splits on the Electro 5d (73 keys), and would never be able to get by with 61 keys. Every so often, even the 73 keys are too limiting - but that's in part because the Electro limits where the split point can be, which sometimes results in the loss of an octave or so.

Yes, that doesn't work so well for FOH. Instead, you can get your vocals back from the FOH feed, but then you can't independently adjust the volume of your vocals for your IEMs. I don't sing, so I don't know if that's a problem. Or, I guess you can do something a little more complicated to send independent feeds of vocals and keys to FOH and separately to a mixer for the IEMs.

I have the 18i6, which is probably an older unit. I like it a lot, and have not had any problems with it.

So, Key largo into 1 input and FOH into other input on Rolls PM55P? Then I would get my keys and be able to turn then up and down independently for my own mix, I would get my vocals with FOH mix, and it has a limiter. So all I would need to buy is the PM55P and the Earphones and I"m set? This is my exact setup and works as you mention here. Shure 215s and the Rolls PM55P. My stereo keys in the 1/4" input & the monitor mix coming into the XLR â both inputs have independent volume controls. Works fine. Functionally, this is my set up too (same hook up as Reezekeys), but I use a different keys mixer and different IEMs. Works great. I use the headphone output of the mixer into the PM55P 1/4" input - it seems like you'd have to do it a little differently with the Key Largo. Also, you won't be able to independently adjust the volume of your own vocals in your IEMs -- don't know if this would be a problem for you.

Yeah, that's why I went with the Rolls PM55P. This one, however, has only two inputs. Works for me, because I don't sing and thus don't need a mic input. But it would be great if the PM351 had a limiter too.

Cool, I do the same thing as my last resort solution. Only had to use it once, and it worked ok.

But then vocals couldn't be adjusted independent of the keys FOH, right? Right. To do that and to have your own mix for keys and vocals, you'd have to send keys and vocals individually to FOH and to your own mixer for IEMs. (Sorry for the confusion, my initial statement was not very clear)

Also, there are some nice little mixers that would enable you to mix your keys and vocals, and then send them to both FOH and your IEMs, to make sure you can hear yourself adequately.

I don't know about the key largo for this application, but you can get your keys from both places. If the keys' volume from FOH isn't very loud, then you will be able to (independently of what you get from FOH) turn up your keys volume in your IEMs (while keeping the rest of the band a little quieter)

BTW, I used to use ambient IEMs, thinking that I would be able to adequately hear the rest of the band as "ambient." But this sounded awful. I think it was because the band is just so loud. If I'm feeding just keys in the IEMs (like I do at practice), I actually rather use regular IEMs. The band is loud enough that I can still hear the band well enough.

I and a few other band members use IEMs, while the rest use wedges and amps. During practice I put just my keys through the IEMs and can hear the rest of the band fine, but it's not ideal. And I don't sing, but if I did I think that hearing my voice just from the bleed through would be insufficient. For shows I use a Rolls PM55P. There are two inputs. I put keys in one and a mix from FOH in the other. that way I can control the relative volumes. Works great. There are other similar mixers that would work. I like the PM55P because it has a limiter that I use on the FOH mix.

Yes, stacked fourths are great for this sort of thing

I would definitely go with Em7add11 (as the B doesn't need to be played)

I bought this one and it has worked out well for me: Dust cover

Maynard Ferguson also did a great cover of Eli's Comin' [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze5etzwNsR0

These two versions of Got To Get You Into My Life are so very different and so great in their own way [video:youtube] [video:youtube]

I also like Joe Cocker's version of Feelin' Alright somewhat better than Traffic's [video:youtube]