jimkost2002
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Posts posted by jimkost2002
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Thanks to DD and Dave Ferrs!
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There are many other Yamaha boards with this keybed action (GHS) - MOXF8, P125, P45, etc. One of them should be in the store to try.
I had a P 125 on loan, it is NOT the same keybed as MODX8.
The P 45 (entry level weightedDP) is the same keybed as MODX8.
Had Yamaha used the P125 keybed on the MODX8, it would have been an infinitely better experience and I would have probably kept mine then!
And here we're back to the issue that not every GHS action necessarily feels the same. There have been some changes over time (it's at least obvious that GHS black keys shifted from glossy to matte, and we really don't know what other under-the-hood tweaks they could have have made over the years), but this is an example where even contemporaneous models feel different, something I noticed myself comparing a MODX8 with a DGX660 that were on display in the same store. Is it that the same action can feel different in a different chassis? Do they have unit-to-unit variation, perhaps a consequence of sourcing some components from multiple suppliers whose pieces may may both meet spec but not feel completely identical? Was it a consequence of the MODX8 being brand new and the DGX660 having been on the floor for a while and having been played a lot? I don't think it's that one, because if actions really felt very different over time, I'd expect my own keyboards to start feeling different toward the center where they are played a lot compared to the extremes where they are played less frequently... but maybe they do and the gradual change becomes unnoticeable, or maybe it's that my boards don't get as much constant playing as floor models. I thought it might be the presence of speakers or different velocity curves, but at least in this case, I think I ruled that out by comparing the two with the sound off, and they still felt different to me. but it's hard to be sure, as you can be fooled by your expectations, too. Do all DGX660 feel like the DGX660 I played, and do all MODX8 feel like the MODX8 I played, or can different units/runs of a MODX8 feel as different from each other as that MODX8 felt from that DGX660? It's a mystery. If anyone is friendly with any Yamaha techs, one clue could be whether the action-related replacement parts for the MODX8 and DGX660 are identical or if they have different part numbers. But even that would only address one piece of the puzzle.
The MODX8 is the same action as the P 95
( I believe that is correct model number of the current Yamaha entry level weighted action DP)
Had Yamaha decided to use the P125, I might still have my MODX8â but, that is still speculation that the MODX8 housing would adequately support the action.
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So frustrating that no-one in the vicinity stocks the MODX8 (plenty of 6/7) to get the comparison. I am by no means a great player so am not sure how much better one keybed will be than the other to me. Soundwise I thought MODX had the edge on most of the instruments
There are many other Yamaha boards with this keybed action (GHS) - MOXF8, P125, P45, etc. One of them should be in the store to try.
I had a P 125 on loan, it is NOT the same keybed as MODX8.
The P 45 (entry level weightedDP) is the same keybed as MODX8.
Had Yamaha used the P125 keybed on the MODX8, it would have been an infinitely better experience and I would have probably kept mine then!
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Sadly, that seems to be the general consensus about the MODX keybed, sounds like much better to go with the 6 or 7 and go with two boards if thats the case.
I had one for 3 weeks and I tried EVERYTHING i knew physically to make the keybed work adequately.
.......'good enough' is not good enough on a professional level!
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Thanks for the reponse. Sadly the Compact is semi-weighted so that would rule that out as tbh the PXS3000 is mainly for piano, the other sounds are nice to have (but I probably need more than the PXS1000 offers), so I don't need anything that specifically benefits an organ.
My question might have been better phrased as to whether MODX8 is good enough from a piano players perspective to negate the need for the Casio? Or really is it betetr to have a more dedicated DP and leave the MODX to what its better at?
Unfortunately, the MODX8 keybed is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. End of story. Truly unfortunate since the sounds are top notch.
Maybe your solution would be get the Casio for piano and then Midi a a MODX6 to it, and have a little submixer next to you to mute the Casio when you need the MODX sounds?
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Happy Birthday, Mike!
All the best!!
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Congrats on the CP88.
Too many actions, too many choices. FWIW, i liked the action on the Montage 8 but did not like the action on the CLP645 (NWX action ala P-515). I think it also has a lot to do with the sound-to-action immersive experience hence i enjoyed the CFX piano on the montage much more than i did with the CLP 645.
It's the whole package, if you found the one (which you did): Jackpot.
Very interesting, keepitsimple. I, too, enjoy the CFX pianos on the Montage8 also. I didn't know that the CLP645 had the same NWX action as the P515. I, however, do not share your dislike. Quite the contrary....
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Thanks for the review Jim ! The CP88 sounds nice, I haven't bought a keyboard since May of '14. Just not sure I'd have a lot of use for it as I'm not gigging that much anymore. I turn down most calls and the others I do take there's either a piano or a keyboard there already.
Literally at the point of total retirement from live playing. I get more fulfillment just practicing 2 to 3 hours on my piano everyday.
You"re welcome, Dave, I ALWAYS appreciate your perspective! If you"re thinking of making the transition away from live playing, then the CP may not be for you....
Do you have the 515? Somewhere in your posts, I thought you said you have it(?) If you do, then you won"t need the CP
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CP88 action is excellent. No doubt about it. Might be the best Yamaha has put in a portable slab.
And it pairs very nicely with the AP and EP sections they"ve included. Oh how I wish it had more sounds from the Montage in the last section. But at least it"s a good controller.
I found the RD-2000 sluggish in comparison.
The Kawai ES8 is also excellent, I"ve not ever sat at the MP7SE. The MP11SE isn"t very portable.
Haven"t played the Nord Grand, but it"s also big for gigging.
Haven"t played the NP4 or Forte8.
Elmer, I, too, wish they"d put some Montage sounds in the 'sub' section..... maybe in an OS update?
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Adan, I consider the P515 to be more of a 'home' unit than a stage piano.
Yamaha separates the 'P' series into a different category and so do I.
I will say the P515 action is even more premium than the CP88"s.
Well done review, Jim. I"ve played the CP88 and P515 side by side and really think the action in both are the best I"ve played on a DP. I think the difference in feel may be in the connection perceived with having the on-board speakers. Could be wrong, but I think the actions are identical.
Enjoy!
Hi Rod, according to Yamaha, the actions are different.
The P515 has the 'NWX' â natural wood with escapementâ- action.
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Al, you are correct.
Yamaha is making OS updates with new instruments once per quarter.
So far, the instrument updates have only been pianos, to my knowledge.
As far as the difference in action between the 73 & 88, I can say its a 'night and day' difference.
I, too, considered the 73 for quite some time, but when I REALLY sat down at the 88, my decision was made!
I loved playing the Stage and Suitcase 88s with those extra bass notes, and you can REALLY get that on the CP88 with the Rhodes"....
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you're welcome Dave, my pleasure!
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Adan, I consider the P515 to be more of a 'home' unit than a stage piano.
Yamaha separates the 'P' series into a different category and so do I.
I will say the P515 action is even more premium than the CP88"s.
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So after much hand wringing and back and forth, I finally received delivery of a Yamaha CP 88 this past Thursday.
(For the record, my test were done thru a pair of QSC K 8.2s thru a Radial Key Largo. For headphone testing I used a pair of AKG K-712 cans.)
All I can say so far, is for APs, EPs and as a controller, there is NOTHING on the market that matches it.
That may seem like hyperbole, but I am prepared to back it up, especially since I have played or owned practically EVERY available (or discontinued) Stage Keyboard/Piano or Workstation.
First, a general assessment of the Yamaha"s fitness in the AP/EP/Controller category. As I stated above, there"s NOTHING which currently matches OR even comes close.
I say this because the combination of the the APs (namely CFX, Bosie and U1), EPs (Rhodes, Wurlis) and Clav and the Yamaha keybed is truly organic and absolutely flawless.
The action is THE MOST RESPONSIVE that I have played on an instrument of this class. (Stage Piano/Controller).
(I am eliminating the P515, CP1, V-Piano and Avant Grand as these instruments do not, imo, fall in the same class)
This action coupled with ANY AP/EP sounds available on the CP is so incredibly precise, that, thru my practice so far I have been shown flaws and holes in my playing that I haven't seen on ANY other keyboard in its class. So, I"ve got much more work ahead of me and I thank the designers of this great instrument for helping me find them!
There are many who don"t care for Yamaha"s pianos, but, hey, if it was Sviatoslav Richter"s instrument of choice in his later years, that"s good enough for me!
First of all build quality is top notch. Solid chassis, great switches and buttons, compact form factor for an 88 note stage piano, its only rival on that front being NP4. And it has pitch and mod controls that the NP4 lacks (Although the NP Transmits those messages!)
I"ll next assess the Yamaha in comparison with other instruments, I have owned or loaned in the past 18 months.
Korg Kronos- While the sounds on the Kronos may be initially more 'appealing' and 'colorful', perhaps almost cinematic in their scope, namely pianos and eps, if you strip away effects and eq-ing, the pianos and EPs don"t hold up to the Yamaha in their raw state. Plus, the Kronos RH3, while being the best of all Korg weighted actions, is still sorely lacking when sharp, rhythmic playing is needed. YES, IT IS SLUGGISH! I did side by side examples of shout choruses on both instruments and the CP ate the Kronos for breakfast.
Also, in regards to the RH3, please remember that, as with all actions, it"s not just the action mechanism itself, but also (just as crucially) what that action is housed or sits IN!
Nord Stage/NP4-Again, I"m speaking mainly of pianos and controller functions here. While not as blatant a difference as that between the Kronos and the Yamaha, it"s still miles apart. There"s something organic and satisfying about the way the Yamaha action and piano sounds work together that, in retrospect, was ALWAYS lacking on the Nords. Again, the Nord APs and EPs have lots of color, but there is a 'hard stop' at the end, or closer to the end, of the samples on the NORD that always bothered me and I constantly made excuses for it, but I would always turn to my VV for most of my practicing when I owned Nords.
Roland RD 2000- Great action, ultimately uninspiring APs, great EPs, great controller, way too heavy and bulky to gig with.
Kurweil Forte 7- Great action, but I've never really connected with Kurz APs/EPs, no matter how hard I tried. Excellent controller.
Overall, I"ll say again that you don't need 10 or 15 different APs and EPs, just a couple and a good onboard EQ.
The APs and EPs have to start with something that has a good, strong fundamental, and THAT is where Yamaha is unbeatable and THAT is why I like them.
These days, I look at all Modern Stage Pianos as fake APs, Fake Rhodes, Fake Wurlies, Fake Clavs.
The question is: who gets closest to a satisfying, organic emulation of these timeless instruments?
They have really taken the best points of Nord in the design and made it their own.
For those of you bitching about the quality of the sub sounds, ITS A STAGE PIANO! NOT a stage KEYBOARD!
'Sub' means subservient!
But, perhaps Yamaha will update the 'Sub' sounds in a further update!
Anyway, that"s it for now...gotta practice!
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theres a pxs 1000 at GC Times Sq and Sam 34, elmer.
i am gonna go there to tomorrow or fri
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I, too, ditched MODX8 b/c the subpar keyboard got to me, too!
Butâ-
I LOVE the sounds in the MODX(Montage/Motif) especially Chick"s Mark V and CS80 packs.
I am thinking of getting a MODX6 and MIDIing it to a better keyboard.
I WISH THEY (Yamaha) would make a Montage MODULEâI"d buy one in a hot minute!
Actually if you join yamahasynth.com, they put up user polls and they are now floating the idea for a module via a user poll.
Bravo, Yamaha!
With the proliferation of subpar and cheap plastic build keyboards out there, perhaps rack mounts/Modules will make a comeback!?
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Awesome news! These heavy hitters have much wisdom to impart!
Thanks to you, Dr, Fortner and to Steve Nathan and the wonderful Mike Martin!
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Have any MODX owners installed Chicks Mark V for Montage?
Its advertised as being MODX compatible
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BTW, do Yamaha have a specific case for the P125? I didn't see one at Sweetwater....
The P-125 will fit snugly into a Casio PX 5S case. If you can find a lightly used one, even better.
Thanks, ewall!
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Hey Adan, thats great to hear youll be in NYC the 7-9. I don't have anything booked those 3 days but, Im free for a meetup on the 8th after 9 if that works for you. Would love to meet you in person. PM me.
BTW, its interesting that weve come to similar conclusions re: Korg and Yamaha actions. As you, Ive gotten tired and frustrated with Korgs actions for APs....
I still like the Kronos, but it couldnt be my only AP source....sonically or action-wise
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Yes, Scott, ultimately you ARE correct, but, I wanted to get the closest experience I could, closer to a buying decision....
but your point is answered in THIS statement:
I realized that what Ill have to is take a 30-45 day trial run with one, and Ill have to play it on MY K&M Omega stand to see how it holds up over prolonged acid tests. If it passes muster, it may be my new gigging board for around town.
Ill also add what I implied: UNDER TRUE PLAYING CONDITIONS
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Good good.
Also a side note, if you enjoyed the P-125 and Montage, I suspect you would also like the MODX8.
Elmer, I have an update on my MODX8 test run, as well as more decisions on other Yamahas:
I went back again to both Times Sq GC and Sam 34, and I realized BOTH places had their MODX8s on a slightly tilted second tier. So, I altered my attack as best I could, changing my arms and wrists to play normally at a raked angle and stayed super close to the keys, except when using a slightly sharper attack to get to 127.
Even with those changes, I noticed a slight bottom on the action of both boards. But not enough to disqualify the MODX8 yet.
I realized that what Ill have to is take a 30-45 day trial run with one, and Ill have to play it on MY K&M Omega stand to see how it holds up over prolonged acid tests. If it passes muster, it may be my new gigging board for around town.
If not, Ive decided to go with a CP73. Why the 73 instead of the 88, you may ask?
As much as I love the 88, one of my tests was to lift it both from its stand and from the ground by myself. That made my decision final.
Its just too much to schlep around town, plus Im gonna use it as a fake Rhodes/Wurly/Clav and I dont need 88 for THAT, as much as I like the CP88 playing experience. My new carry limit is 30-35 lbs.
Thats one reason Im switching from Kronos 73, much as I LOVE the sounds!
Plus, I really find I am becoming more specific, yet ultimately agnostic as time goes on. Im staying with the classics(VV/Rhodes, Vibanet/Clav, Wurli, Hammond, Moogs) as well as with instruments that provide a specific function:
Namely
1)a Stay-at-Home Workstation/Production Station (Montage8/Kronos8)
2)and the best and most Inspiring emulation of timeless instruments I can find, but the emulations have to be durable enough to last 6-8 years and then cycle out.
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Lars, thanks for your perspective!
You have confirmed what Ive heard about Excellent concepts but poor QC, especially in the MP7, less so in the ES110.....and its unfortunate, as Ive considered Kawai many times but have never pulled the trigger.
Yeah, Korg really has a problem with their actions......From SV1 to SP280, up to but not including latest Kronos. Ill never buy Korg again until they upgrade to an RH4.....I know, never say never!
I agree Yamaha have a real winner in the P125 and I, too am considering a P515 as a home practice instrument.
BTW, do Yamaha have a specific case for the P125? I didn't see one at Sweetwater....
Lastly, Sam 34 DOES have a P515 on the floor now!
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How does the MOD8 Piano and Rhodes and key action response compare to the CP4?
Frankly, the CP4 action is hard to beat.
Im not quite sure of your overall question, Jazz+, do you mean how is the quality and optimization of hardware and software as relates to AP and Rhodes on the MODX8 as compared to the CP4?
If thats what you mean, Id say the CP4 is a bit more fluid as it doesnt have the hard bottom that the MODX8 has.
For the record, I am gonna go back again within the week to do another testing.
RIP Aspen Pittman
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
Tragic news....I am in shock. Aspen was a great guy and the soul of integrity!
He will be missed! Condolences to his family....