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analogholic

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    Herbie Hancock - Secrets

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    I got turned on to the classic Headhunters period of Herbie's career in the mid-90s when I was at Michigan State University. Herbie always has such a killer Rhodes tone on those recordings. I bought everything I could find on CD of that period including the original Headhunters, Thrust, and Man Child. And for some reason I thought that's where that period basically ended and Herbie started doing VSOP and the Rock-It stuff.

     

    Imagine my surprise when I discovered the album Secrets. I had no idea it existed until it popped up in my YouTube feed. I don't know why I never came across it before. And then there's Mr Hands, which is just insane.

     

    But anyway, I've become obsessed with Secrets, listening to it almost every day, especially the tunes People Music and Gentle Thoughts. Just yesterday HH posted a picture of himself from that period. He's in the studio and he's resting one hand on his Oberheim Four Voice and the other on his Rhodes. It's just so cool.

     

    On People Music, there's a really cool breakdown moment around 2:45 where the drums and bass drop out and there are these amazingly lush synthesizer chords going through a dense reverb and the individual notes of the chords are sliding up and down to each other (polyphonic glide).

     

    I'm wondering if that's the Four Voice? I assume it is. WOW, what a sound. It just sounds like some other world and I want to live there. Combined with Herbie's Rhodes, it's just such an amazing sonic landscape.

    ]

     

     

    People Music is my favourite track on Secrets. Such a wonderful vibe..the drums, bass and then Herbie...wow....and the synth sounds...gorgeous...yeah must be the four-voice...will kick myself forever for not buying that serviced four-voice for $ 3.500 about 7-8 years ago...thought it was "too expensive" at the time. Well at least I can multitrack my two original SEM´s....they sound better than anything else I've heard/tried.

    I also only heard Secrets first like a couple of years ago...just went by me...WHAT??? :)

    any of you Rhodes aficionados played thru a Brownface?

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Hi Tomislav!!"

    What took you so long? :)

     

    I have to 'join the choir' here and speak about the importance of the speaker.

     

    In a combo you could have a great amp but a speaker

    that won"t by far be optimal for Rhodes...

     

    We all have different tastes but....

     

    My first 'tube encounter' was with a Laney VC-30

    class A combo. It sounded like shit as the speaker couldn"t

    handle the frequency range of the Rhodes.

    (Freddan, the great Rhodes technician/historian from the Rhodes Supersite personally likes bass amps with Rhodes for that very same reason)

     

    Anyway, so I disconnected the speaker from the laney and plugged its amp to an old JBL PA speaker which my dad used in the 70"s when gigging.

    I almost fell off my chair...what a sound!!! :)

     

    So I tried a couple of amp heads which the different guitarists I played with used themselves.

     

    Also a 20 watt brown face fender head....

    Awesome distorted sound but too early beak up

     

    Couple of years ago I went to a dudes rehearsal space

    Guitarist and TOTAL sound maniac in the highest regard

    Yes he has a voltage regulator which he adjust for his 20

    something amps :) to make them sound the best

     

    So I brought my NE3 with me...

     

    He was scratching his head a little wondering where

    we should start.

    Then he digs out a weird amp looking like it was

    built in the DDR during the sixties :)

    'I have a feeling about this one' he says....

     

    So we hook up the Nord to it and the amp to a big

    old Hagström closed back bass cab with two Alnico 15"s

    IIRC....

     

    The sound just blew me away!!!

    Couldn"t believe my ears and my hands.

    Sound was incredible!!! The stone dead Nord samples

    where alive and kicking big time.

    After a coupe of minutes I said, I wanna buy the amp.

     

    Turned out it was a CMI...a handwired 70" 100% Marshall

    Lead & Bass under a different branding (Like also Park etc)

    This Marshall sounds very different from all the Marshall"s

    I"ve tried before. It"s doesn"t have that dirty typical Marshall sound but more of a fender...but when pushed then comes distorsion into Jon Lord territory :)

    Unfortunately I should have bought the cab too...

    Because they were a match made in heaven.

    But it was just too big and heavy (giant is a better word)

     

    I"m thinking of finding a little bass cab for it like the

    small Mark Bass cabs...we"ll see....

    Behringer Pro 800

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

     

    The one short coming of the Poly 800 is its MONO. Really? Now, my Prophet 5 is mono, but I bought that in 1981 and none of the mainstream synths came with FX in the dark ages.

     

     

    Yeah....here is the stereo mod for the P600...gonna get it for mine for sure :)

     

    Together with the GliGli mod it eats the DSI stuff for breakfast

     

     

    Behringer Pro 800

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Update

     

    A little more about the Pro 800 and GliGli:

     

    Well for a predicted $600 that's a lot of synth. You get 16 CEM3340 oscillators and 8 CEM3320 low pass filters. Considering the OBXa used the same filter (although it had a 12dB/octave one as well) then this synth should be capable of some great sounds.

     

    Prophet 600 has CEM3372 filter/VCA chips, (same as Chroma Polaris, Xpander, and VX600 etc) not CEM3320.

     

    Where is the info about PRO800 and CEM3320 filters?

    Behringer BBG (PPG) Wave

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    I'm very happy about this one...

     

    Those grainy wavetables with analog VCA and VCF has a SOUND! If you like that sound is another thing.

    Can't get that sound with software....

    I initially "thought" that i.e FM7 sounded "better" than my old DX7´s and thought "shit" I need to sell

    my TX-816 before it becomes worthless...well, I'm VERY glad I didn´t sell it...same thing, even that one has a SOUND which software just can't touch.

    How many times have we heard the typical "well the new one sounds better" from developers and engineers, who are not musicians and "listen" with their

    engineering mind instead of their ears.

    So Palm´s statement that these software versions sound better is laughable...I´ve tried his recent stuff and they all have this generic "software tone" with no balls

    or presence...I deleted those apps.

     

    So the interesting thing IMO would be to have this original design with a modern computer based Waveterm to go with it :)

    Moog One Survey

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Rhodes Chroma: 3000 (1982-1983)

     

     

    Hmmm...wonder if this one is correct...

    Seems a bit high especially since the production lasted

    only one year?

     

    That's the number Phil Dodds gave, and he would know.

     

    Yeah, Phil would know..

     

    Famous virtual sax riffs with SWAM and breath controller

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Aha...so It´s here the SWAM sounds ended up...had no idea about Audio Modeling company....

     

     

    But Sample Modeling also have the same brass instruments....albeit in Kontakt version...anyone knows how these compare regarding sound?

     

    https://www.samplemodeling.com/en/products.php

     

     

    Sample modeling have some interesting added features for the trumpet and trombone:

     

    1.New Early Reflections algorithm. A new ER algorithm exploits the directional information of multi-microphone anechoic recordings to recover the full, rich timbre of the instrument along with its radiation pattern, adding proper virtual space to the anechoic sound.

     

    2.Virtual Soundstage. This new feature allows precise positioning of the instruments in a "dimensionless" virtual space, using early reflections, pre-delay, convoluted panning and perceived distance algorithms, even in real time.

    This will set you free to add a further suitable acoustic environment, without incurring multiple-ambience issues. This can be carried out within the same Kontakt Player, which provides a high quality convolution reverb.

     

    3.Real time Timbral Shaping. This revolutionary new feature adds a virtually infinite timbral variety to sample-based instruments, by acting on the amplitude of individual harmonics, or groups of harmonics, even in real time. This is not a graphic equalizer; the controlling bars are not assigned to fixed frequencies, but to the first 10 harmonics of the played note. As a consequence, the affected frequencies vary with the pitch of the note. So, rising, for example, bar #1 will boost the fundamental frequency (first harmonic) of each note played, yielding a rounder sound. Rising bars #3, #4, #5 will increase the intensity of the corresponding harmonics for a more "nasal" sound, etc.

     

    4. Microtuning. Another new feature is microtuning, applicable to individual keys even in real time, to better cope with non-tempered scales, so essential in, for example, Middle Eastern and Asian music.

     

    5. Expression Mapping. User-drawn rescaling of the expression CC allows better control of the dynamics, particularly with such input devices like breath or wind controllers.

     

    6. Breathy Attacks. Simply play at very low dynamics and lowest velocity, and you will get a very realistic breathy noise preceding the tone of the trombone.

     

    7. "For Unison Ensemble" IR. A specially devised Impulse Response, markedly reducing the phasing which may occur when several instruments are driven from the same MIDI track (i.e. in unison).

     

    8. Unison Ensemble Multi. Special consideration has been given to creation of realistic ensembles from solo instruments, whether driven from separate MIDI tracks, or when playing unison. An advanced "ensemble maker" has been developed, affecting timing, static and dynamic pitch evolution, phase, response to dynamics, pitchbend, velocity, portamento time, in such a way that even if driven from a single MIDI source, each instrument will sound as if played by a different musician.

    A ready-to-use Multi, including three specially devised trombones, the ensemble maker, and an appropriate convolution reverb, suitable for unison playing straight out of the box, is included in the package.

     

    The unison modes and expression mapping are what interest me most...can´t find anything about these things on the Audio Modeling version...

    Kurzweil PC4

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    And why is that?

    Because that now ancient ROM was cutting edge at the time.... 20 years ago...

     

    I might agree with you if I didn't own a Kurzweil, but I do. If I put my older PC361 alongside a modern Yamaha, the Yamaha will no doubt have more sheen, more edge, and more flashy sounds. But when I'm writing/recording an actual song, the Kurz will often fit in the mix better. Those flashy, in-your-face sounds are useless in even a modestly dense composition. If I measure a synth's value in terms of helping me get stuff done, Kurzweil scores very, very well.

     

    I disagree that you don't see them onstage... I see my fair share. Jordan Rudess, David Rosenthal, etc. They still have a following with pros.

     

    Last but not least, Kurzweil is hardly the only manufacturer stretching the life of their ROM. Roland is still selling instruments with the JV/XP ROM (e.g. Integra, FA-06, etc). I'm less sure about Yamaha and Korg, Nord, etc.

     

    I´m not talking about fitting in the mix for recording...I´m talking why you don´t see them live. Rudess haven´t used a Kurz in 15 years, he switched to Korg, Oasys then Kronos...

     

    Yes you are right, all the manufacturers have traces of old ROM....but they already back then had a more complete ROM that has expanded greatly over time.

    A K2000 was amazing for having only 8 MB of ROM and how you could use those very few multisamples. A Trinity had 24 MB.

    VAST is WAY more flexible the Trinity engine...but as we all know, not everyone is a programmer (especially regarding VAST), many players need great sounds and a great variety of sounds right of the box...there is only so much you can do with 8 MB....

    The few pros who chose Kurzweil knew its potential that with work you can do really cool stuff.

    For me it never became more than "potential greatness" for a long time...looking at my friends cheap Korg X5d wondering why the Kurz didn´t have sounds like that...

     

    Kurzweil PC4

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    ...

    Why do you almost never see Kurzweils live?

    Why do you almost always see Motifs, Kronos live (apart from the NORD users)

     

    Take a guess

     

    When will Kurzweil wake up???

     

    Because almost no one sells them. I'd probably have one instead of my Motif had a single store in Minnesota had them.

     

    So why does nobody sell them?

    Probably because people didn´t buy them (while they were still selling them)...They go in the store, try the Kurz (while there were any) and the Korg, Roland and Yamaha, feeling more impressed with the latter 3....

     

    Kurzweil has always been this "special tool"...where I could do stuff the others couldn't´t...

    But as my main instrument...no...

     

    Forte would definitely be there with an updated base rom and updated LFO´s, envelopes, less aliasing

     

    Sigh...maybe the "next" flagship"...

     

    Btw, in Sweden there was no problem buying Kurzweils for a long time....

    NEVER saw them in a live rig during 20 years...

     

    Kurzweil PC4

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Hmmm...yes...I know they are used there....but are these unseen Kurzweils going to help Kurzweil to sell a lot of units?

     

    Or would it be better to pack it with sounds that cover a lot of ranges appealing to R&B, pop and whatnot players right out of the box?

     

    I was quite underwhelmed when I heard the PC3 for the first time....

    Strings were very good, but that was it...

    OK, it was their first serious attempt at a new instrument with limited resources...but still...

     

    I constantly see all kinds of versions of the basically same synth....

     

    Wouldn't´t it better to do something new? Something innovative?

     

     

     

     

    Kurzweil PC4

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Other than the 2 gig of user memory and 256 vs. 128 voices, what is significantly different about this keyboard than a PC3A8?

     

    The 2GB ROM in the PC4. vs 64MB base ROM, 64MB KORE 64 and 128MB for the Piano Exp in the PC3A8, total of 256 MB ROM

    Kurzweil PC4

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Why do you almost never see Kurzweils live?

     

    Maybe because you're not at a Broadway show looking into the pit?

     

    You used to see/hear them more 10-20 years ago.

     

    And why is that?

    Because that now ancient ROM was cutting edge at the time.... 20 years ago...

     

     

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