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analogholic

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    Oberheim TEO-5

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Wonder what "engine" it has? Maybe OB-6 voice cards and filters? Seems smart to use what you "already have" as opposed to create something from scratch...or maybe the Curtis "synth on a chip" as in Prophet REV2 "tweaked" to sound more "Oberheim-ish"?

    Rick Beato goes ballistic thinking the public can't detect relative pitch errors.

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    13 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

    A. he has perfect pitch and B. he cares, deeply.  those two facts are almost a curse

     

    ironically, just about every act in popular music is using pitch and time correction on their songs.  so clearly they must feel the audience is capable of noticing their

     

    AFAIK, Rick does not have perfect pitch. A good relative pitch. yes. His son Dylan otoh has high level perfect pitch

    • Dislike 1

    RIP Jim Beard...

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    On 3/9/2024 at 4:07 PM, 16251 said:

    Watching that interview, YT offered me this.  I sadly, didn't follow him much after Song of the Sun. He definitely left his stamp on music.  That little music idea he uses in a lot of his compositions (ba-da ba-da, ba-da, ba-da ...) IMHO is unique in its simplicity and I can't say I ever noticed in any other artist.

     

    Yeah exactly....my favorite "ba-da ba-da" is this one....I wore out this album....I even told him (and sang this "ba-da ba-da" for him) how much I loved this tune

     

     

     

     

    • Love 1

    RIP Jim Beard...

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    On 3/5/2024 at 8:08 PM, ProfD said:

    Less than a decade ago he was touring with Steely Dan. RIP Mr. Jim Beard.😎

    It was actually less than two months ago....last gig he did with them was January 20 in Phoenix...

    RIP Jim Beard...

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    Really saddened by this....can´t really believe it...just some weeks ago I was trying to get a friend hip to him and went thru a lot of YT-clips featuring him...

    Fantastic keyboard player and composer. I really like his solo albums. He was also one of Zawinul´s (few) favorites

     

    Saw him live 3 times in Sweden, first time with Scofield´s "Blue Matter" band in 87...still to this day the most intense gig I´ve ever seen...

    Then with Wayne Shorter and the last time I think it was with Victor Bailey. The last time I had a chance to talk to him...very humble guy.

     

    RIP Maestro and thank you for all the music!

    Holy hell — Korg reissue PS-3300!

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

     

    On 1/22/2024 at 9:34 PM, Shamanzarek said:

    Gino Vannelli with brother Joe on keys were users of the PS-3300 and PS-3100 on their 1978 album Brother to Brother and live shows. You might catch a glimpse of a PS in this live show when they take the camera off of Gino.

    .

     

     

    Gino & Joe did the same with a Korg 800DV to build up the string section sounds on 1976's "The Gist Of The Gemini".

    Says Joe Vannelli; "On Gist Of The Gemini we used just a simple little K-3 synthesizer (Maxikorg 800DV). We had the two 24-track machines set up together, then we used one of them entirely for strings. We had written out the whole arrangement, and we recorded each note one at a time! Than meant we had to do something like 65 overdubs.It took us forever...
    That's how we did it on all the old records, right up until A Pauper In Paradise."

    To reproduce the string sound onstage (1978-79) they used two Korg PS-3300 polyphonic synths (they also had two Korg PS-3100s but those were only used as backup, in case the big ones would go). 

    Gino: "What we did was to buy two keyboards and interface them into one of the PS-3300s, with one keyboard in Bill Meyer's setup and the other in Brad Cole's. This way we could switch the string parts back and forth from one to the other as the need arose. The other big Korg was programmed for brass, and the same kind of switching could be done. The synthesizers themselves were kept right beside Joey (Vannelli), so he could tune or fix them if he heard anything wrong. So that's how we got our string and brass onstage, and they really were incredible sounds, so much that we're recording with them right now in the studio, without any overdubs."
    (source for quotations: Contemporary keyboard, Nov 1979)

    • Like 1

    Introducing UB-Xa

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    4 hours ago, ChazKeys said:

     Some positive comments about the keybed too - sure can't be worse than my Sub37 ;) Aftertouch is adjustable too:

    Sorry for contributing to OT, but just wanted to mention that it´s possible to replace the Sub37 keyboard with the Fatar one that is in the Subsequent 37, as indeed the Sub37 keyboard is a disaster. If I decide to keep my 37, I´m gonna replace the keyboard.

    Introducing UB-Xa

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    8 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:


    Yes, modern components certainly benefit from better manufacturing techniques leading to tighter tolerances. That said, good electronics engineers can account for that. Oberheim obviously didn't just rebuild an OB-Xa from the original schematic using modern parts, clapped their hands, and declared "Good enough!" They went through and meticulously reworked the circuit so it would sound like the old ones but using modern components, which means they most likely measured the critical components in the signal path of the vintage ones and accounted for the tolerances and drift. Marcus Ryle ain't no dummy.

    What else could it be? Well, with a all due respect, it could be confirmation bias, selective perception, or any other number of cognitive biases that we all have as humans. Have you done any double-blind ABX tests? That would really be the only way to accurately determine if you can tell a difference or not. You can tell yourself you do but if you already know which one you're listening to, then you've already colored your perception.

    I've caught so many people, including myself, in double-blind tests; people I admire and respect who claimed they could hear a difference between this and that. It's pretty revealing once you remove your own biases and don't know what is what.

    It's worth mentioning as well that our auditory memory is significantly short; like measured in milliseconds. Meaning comparing an OB-X8 that you played in a store to your own at home, miles and many minutes away, is moot.

    I don't have access to an OB-X but I can borrow my friend's OB-Xa and create a double blind ABX test, where A is one synth, B is another, and X is either / or. If anyone can reliably tell which is which (meaning significantly above chance or 50% correct), then I'll concede my position. 

     

     

    Marcus Ryle is definitely no dummy. I respect and like the man big time. Same goes for Dave Smith and Bob Moog. However, Sequential stated when rev 3 P5 came out that it had the "same sound" as the SSM versions. A lot of people don't hear any difference even today. I do and it´s not by a small margin. When Moog released the improved oscillator board Minimmoog, it "sounded the same". when in fact musicians thought the opposite. Is my favourite of them all, maestro Tom Oberheim "a dummy"? Of course not. Yet, the SEM reissue didn´t sound like the old one.

     

    Confirmation bias. Yes that surely exists. In my case, like I said numerous times, I didn't have any. On the contrary as I was so glad when they released X8 and thought that I finally could replace my old ones. So, should I then say with the same "argument" that there is no difference between the OB-Xa and the UB-Xa? That you are just "imagining" any sound difference and that it´s only because of "bias"? They way you speak about Behringer is definitely biased. So who is the biased one here? 

    And regarding bias, is there more to the story here maybe in your case? You have stated yourself that you have an "artist relation with Sequential". Who would you say have a bigger reason for bias between the two of us? And to "defend" the product?

     

    When the P5 rev 4 was released I thought they were joking when I heard it and many with me, while the new "first time" owners were ecstatic. Owners who actually had or at least had played a vintage P5 started reporting to Sequential and asking about what the hell is going on, The thing sounded as you had put wool over the speakers. Sequential replied that "they are imagining things". "Nice". Of course the people with ears didn´t imagine anything. Those first batches were faulty and Sequential had to correct it. Talk about bias. Even after the correction it still doesn't sound the same, Why do you think there is a "vintage knob" on these new versions?

     

    It was quite interesting how I was flamed when I said the OB-6 oscillators are dead stiff, when people said "it sounds just like an OB-X" and "It even says SEM on the voice cards" and "Tom O should know better" and "you just want show off with your vintage gear and the best one of of them all, "you seem to like out of tune synths" etc. They just didn't get it. It was quite interesting to notice what reactions this little statement created. All from owners of course. I even got some "funny" answers by a DSI rep when asking about what´s the story about the stiff sound. One of the replies was "this is the sound that people want". Then came the "vintage knob" What for then? Apparently more people than me had noticed. One of them were Matt Johnson of Jamiroquai. The vintage knob didn't of course solve anything about the oscillators which behave almost like DCO´s, but least loosened up the envelopes and induced a little random tuning etc. Why do I mention these things? Because obviously people hear things VERY differently.

     

    You wrote :"It's worth mentioning as well that our auditory memory is significantly short; like measured in milliseconds. Meaning comparing an OB-X8 that you played in a store to your own at home, miles and many minutes away, is moot."

     

    Yes I agree...but there is another dimension here and that's what I call SOUL reaction. That is not about "ear-memory" anymore. It´s something else. It´s when you play something and you almost laugh out loud. You don't control that. The thing that happens when you sit down and play a B3 with a Leslie? Doesn´t matter if they all sound a little different. 

     

    Blind tests. Over at ex gearslutz. now gearspace, SWAN made a blind test between his OB-8 and his custom patches for soft synth U-HE DIVA Most people got it wrong. Sit down yourself with both and you wil hear and more importantly FEEL the difference. 

     

    As I said before, Listen to those Ryle tests one more time, and tell me that ALL of those patches sound the same. They don't. So the "nailed it" argument is already dead here.

    Then go and listen to Anthony Marinelli´s test of his vintage 2600 and the Korg one, made with same parts and supervised by no dummy ex ARP employees. A couple of   very respectable guys told me "it sounds the same".  

     

    So, does this all matter at all in the end? Will the music be any better? Will you hear it in a mix? No...that will in many cases even apply for hardware vs software as well.

    People I know with better ears than me learned the lesson and gave up commenting on things like this, because the result is the same every single time. 

     

    You stated your right to say what you hear about the UB-Xa, I just did the same regarding the X8. 

     

    I guess we have to agree on disagreeing about this one. No big deal is it?

     

    Peace

     

     

     

    Introducing UB-Xa

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    25 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

     

    Sorry but you're wrong; I own a vintage OB-X and OB-SX.  My OB-X8 can duplicate them easily.

    Good for you! 👍 I do hear it though. Honestly I don´t understand why this is so upsetting? I guess we have to agree on disagreeing as they say 🙂

    Introducing UB-Xa

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

     

    Yep. It's about the engineering, not the components per se.

    I´m going to disagree here as well...It is reported that components back in the day had wider tolerances...aka were not as precise as today´s equivalents.
    Like I said that I suspect that the SMT in combination with modern components affects the sound. What else would it be? I have not heard ONE reissue that sounds like a vintage one, not one. KARP Ody/2600, SEM, P5, MS-20 etc etc. Minimoog D is the closest I that I´ve heard. And it´s not about "yeah but compare two vintage ones and they will sound different too". Yes they will...but in the "ballpark" of that sound. I´m not an engineer, but I unfortunately hear it. And honestly, often I really wish I didn´t. Life would be easier in some regards.

    Introducing UB-Xa

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:


    I disagree. Marcus Ryle's direct comparison between the two demonstrates that the OB-X8 sounds like all three. I also compared it directly to my friend's OB-Xa (which I restored) and my own OB8 and they are so close as to be almost identical.


    Do you own an X8

    I´ve seen these videos .and yes .here they sound pretty similar and some of the patches less so, so already "nails it" is out of the question", and those short snippets don´t tell the "whole story".

    I don´t own an X8 as you already know, and i don´t have to.... I could already tell from many demos...and it was even more evident when I tried it out in person for a couple of hours.

    I do however own an OB-X and an OB-Xa...which is why I can tell.

    Like I said, nobody would be happier than me if they indeed would have nailed the sound, as the X8 is way more "capable" than any of them and could have replaced both and then some. I also count on that the X8 is less "quirky" than the old ones.

    I would have sold the vintage ones a long time ago and would gotten a shitload of money over after the purchase of an X8, but that ain´t gonna happen.

    The loser here is unfortunately me...I´m far from the only one saying this...people who owns the old ones and the X8. And I have heard the opposite. I trust my own ears.

     

    If you think they sound the same, more power to you...you are the winner and the lucky one here 👍

     

     

     

     

    • Like 1

    The Mag P2 has Landed

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    On 12/7/2023 at 7:47 PM, bill bosco said:

    i have both the HX3.5 and 3.6 .  they are very close sound wise , i think the 3.6 is a little richer or refined , it also has a better reverb and much better pedal base . there's 

    also way more tweakablity , if that's what you're into . the newer board , i believe , has more memory capacity and can store some additional organ models , which have 

    recently become available . one of the things that stands out with the HX3 sound engine is its' FPGA chip , its got a very analog " feel " to it . the way the notes come off

    your fingers . nothing digital about it . i don't own a MAG , but i've played one , a P2 . hands down the most well made clone out there . was blown away by the build quality 

    Thanks for the info! 👍

    The Mag P2 has Landed

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Mitch Towne said:


     I’m not really a huge fan of the Vent. Been using the internal sim with my Motion Sound amp as of late. 

    Great playing! 👍 Could you tell what you don´t like about the Vent? And why you prefer the internal sim?

    I´m on HX3 3.4 and was thinking of if it´s worth upgrading to 3.6. But then my Vent probably has to go, to even out the price difference.

    Introducing UB-Xa

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    On 11/26/2023 at 6:03 AM, Dr Mike Metlay said:

    I wonder how they implemented the left-hand paddles? I never liked wheels except on keytars, hated PPC, was never all that comfortable with ribbons, and could just about fumble along decently well on the Roland wangbar, but I really learned to solo most fluidly on the Oberheim Xk and Matrix-12, as the paddle placement and movement axes were and are far more natural to me than anything else. It will be interesting to see how closely the ones on the UB-Xa hew to the original.

    Yeah, except for that fact when you pull down the pitch goes up and VV.  Could never get used to that 😂 IIRC, virtuoso Jens Johansson turned that whole thing 180 degrees on his M12 back in the day. But that makes it more difficult to add modulation while you are bending.

    Introducing UB-Xa

    in The Keyboard Corner

    Posted

    6 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

    ... And the OB-X8 nails all three. 

    No it doesn´t. It sounds netiher like an OB-X or OB-Xa. It sounds different, more "precise" or "sterile". But that was expected, as I hear this in most reissues, take SEM, KARP 2600 or whatever. Don´t know if it is the SMT design...Does it sound good? Yes indeed, but lacks that mojo the old ones have.

    Noone would be happier than me if they had nailed the sound, for several reasons, one of them reliability.Will I get one? Most probably, as the X8 can do things the old ones can´t like having X type osc and filter with page 2 from the 8 and so on. Not to mention the different filter types from the SEM.

    • Like 1
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