CyberGene

That was my intent too. On the other hand, after some experimentation, I’ve finally settled on a hybrid between DAW-ful and DAW-less setup for the project I have with two other guys: I use an iPad Mini 6 with Logic Pro and arrangements that I’ve sequenced in advance but I also control virtual instruments within Logic through my Numa X Piano 73 that is also a USB audio interface, so basically it’s a setup that’s very similar to the Jupiter X or Xm. Of course, I lack direct synth controls which is why when I’m in the mood I also bring my Sequential Take 5 but honestly I think I’m gonna sell it. One needs direct controls when programming patches. For live playing I use an expression pedal and the mod-joysticks.

I agree fully. My suggestion for deleting posts was in response to a call for locking the thread. I'm not sure why a thread should be locked when it's not the thread itself that is at fault here. If you ask me, all topics should be allowed, even politics and religion and no posts should be deleted, or threads locked, unless of course there's hate speech and personal insults. I've created an offshoot forum to PianoWorld called PianoClack in response to the overly restrictive rules at PW and I've successfully proven that when there's complete freedom of speech and no banned topics, the net result is people quickly learn what others are concerned about and after an initial stir with heated arguments, we all resorted to a friendly and calm atmosphere where we mainly discuss pianos. I hope more forums and Internet places adopt such a policy. On the topic of Behringer and what is a personal opinion. There's a slight difference between "I would never support this horrible company" and "Please don't support this horrible company"

Maybe if the thread didn’t contain calls for boycotting a company, it wouldn’t end up like this? 🧐 How about admins deleting all the posts after (and including) the first post of Jim that ignited it all?

I once ordered a Jupiter XM that was backordered and while I waited for availability I started reading the manual. The things looked so complicated while at the same time there’s just a tiny screen to control that complexity, that I canceled my order. It’s just too expensive for what it is IMO. I guess the bigger brother Jupiter X is better with more hands-on control but it’s still the same mess of Zen-Core that you control on a small screen. I also read that the aftertouch on the Jupiter-X is hard to control.

“You get what you pay for” has many meanings. Sometimes paying a lot means paying for a brand name, not necessarily quality. How much do you think a bunch of transistors and resistors cost? Because that’s the cost of a Model D. In the case of the Minimoog reissue, there’s also a cheap Fatar keyboard and a nice wooden case but is it €6000 worth? One reviewer (out of three on Thomann, because these Minimoog reissues are not selling like hot cakes apparently) says: On this synth, they have used wood that has defects, poorly unevenly ground edges, screwed together so that it is crooked and cannot be folded. You notice that the soul of the company has shifted to "money making". Moog completely sucks in how the final, insanely expensive product looks as they have completely lost quality control. How does it sound then? Yes, it sounds amazingly nice and it's beautiful to look at if you haven't been so bad at working with wood. Would never buy one again. The €300 selling price of a Behringer Model D is realistic for what’s basically a very limited number of simple electronic components.

I’ve read about the Cork Sniffer parody and from what I understood that guy didn’t actually review their products but was known to be criticizing them for their ethics for years. I’m not defending Behringer for what they did. But unless I got things wrong, that guy didn’t “honestly” review their gear for the simple reason he didn’t review their gear at all because he didn’t like the company. Here’s a summary and a timeline: https://musictech.com/news/11-things-need-know-history-behringer-peter-kirn/ The synth community is an elite club. Many of those people are not even musicians. They are geeks or just collectors of valuable vintage items and understandably they don’t like that cheaper replicas are available. It’s like a vintage Ferrari being copied nowadays and sold cheap. It’s only nobody does that with cars but imagine the outrage if it happened 😀 Copying current products is wrong. I hope they are sued for that. However their vintage replicas are great and allowing so many people to own a synth they could only dream of is admirable. Things are not black or white. Which is why big software companies were mentioned here as an example. Because they do despicable things but they’ve also created good products. But again, software is not an elite possession. Vintage synths are. Hence the hate. Yep, it’s hate 😉

No, I didn’t mean patent trolling which is a case mostly in the software world. I meant companies stealing competitors’ IP, getting caught, paying hefty fines and then doing it again. What I’m saying is big companies are all doing it. Even if there’s an out of court agreement for which you may have not heard. If one starts canceling companies for it, he will end up not using any commercial product.

I sign under everything that has been said in the first post. I loved my MODX for its sounds and portability but the UI as well as the convoluted and awkward concepts really put me off and I sold it. Just an example that I always give: when you create a two-part split and enable arpeggio in one of the parts, you will hear that part when playing keys from the other part 🤣 And do you know why that is? Because some genius decided that note ranges for the parts don't determine what keys command that part, they determine what notes you hear from that part. In other words, every part receives every key, regardless of note ranges, however those notes that are outside the note ranges are silenced. However since an arpeggio goes outside the note range, you will be able to hear them 🤦🏻‍♂️ In order to avoid that, you have to open the arpeggio menu and set what keys can give input to the arpeggio... If you don't understand anything about what I said, don't worry, I didn't either. I am a senior software engineer and it took me quite some time to realize it's not a bug but is a feature and someone released it with a clear mind that's OK.

As I previously posted in this thread, I use a Roland DP-10 continuous pedal with the Numa X Piano 73 and it works, however there is a caveat. For the acoustic pianos it needs to be in Continuous A and for Electric pianos it needs to be in Continuous B (or the other way around, don't remember) because otherwise there's odd behavior, for instance on the acoustic piano the sound will decay quicker than usual even when fully pressed in one of the settings, whereas on Electric pianos the sound will still be sustained even when you fully release the pedal. Unfortunately, and oddly enough, these are swapped for acoustic/electric pianos and so you can't just set it and forget it in the menu which makes it rather unusable for me and I just use it as a switch pedal for now. I emailed Gianni and he admitted it's actually an issue with the electric pianos and that they are (probably) gonna update the pedal behavior of the electric pianos, but he implied that the mode that works with the acoustic piano patches is the one that is correct for Roland DP-10, hence third-party half-pedals are supported which is a great news. I'm looking forward to that eventual update because as a pianist I'm rellay used to half-pedaling, and besides, the pedal noises are much more realistic when used with continuous pedals. With a switch they are machine-gun like.

@RABid good points and here’s one more for Microsoft (a quote from Wikipedia): One of the claims was related to having modified Windows 3.1 so that it would not run on DR DOS 6.0 although there were no technical reasons for it not to work. This was caused by the so-called AARD code, some encrypted piece of code, which had been found in a number of Microsoft programs. The code would fake nonsensical error messages if run on DR DOS, like: Non-Fatal error detected: error #2726 Please contact Windows 3.1 beta support Press ENTER to exit or C to continue If the user chose to press C, Windows would continue to run on DR DOS without problems. There was speculation that the purpose of this code was to create doubts about DR DOS's compatibility and thereby destroy the product's reputation; internal Microsoft memos published as part of the United States v. Microsoft antitrust case later confirmed this.

You’d be amazed at how many companies are sued for patent infringement and are ordered to pay mind blowing amounts of money. And that happens repeatedly. I’m not saying it’s OK, but pointing the finger only at Behringer is simply unfair.

You’ve missed the context, so let me put it here for you: analog synths (vintage or modern). How’s the reliability of Moog synths? The vintage ones? The modern ones? Rock solid, right? 😀 Over-generalizing about Behringer quality from a crappy mixer you owned 20 years ago won’t change the number of people who have had tons of issues with modern Moog and Sequential synths, just check the reviews. And then compare the price.

That's a valid point but the simple statistics says that rich musicians are so much less than poor musicians 😉 If you open statistics on websites such as Thomann you will see that Behringer synths outsell other analog synths in a crushing ratio. When I say revival, I don't mean just the desire for analog synths but also the quantity of people who purchased an analog synth, being it a vintage one, a newly designed original one, or a replica. Again, Behringer synths outsell others by a huge margin, and they benefited from the revival but also contributed to it. It's a mutual business. When you say "cheap" copies I sense some judgement. Those vintage designs can be recreated cheaply today. Behringer makes realistically priced copies. Of designs that are not copyrighted anymore. I understand that may not be to anybody's ethical values but that's life. Again, see the demand of Behringer synths and it would be pretty clear what the mass of (poor musicians) think about all that. That's actually my first synth. It arrived with a defect and I had a lengthy discussion with the guys from the Studio Electronics about the defect. I was extremely polite because I liked the synth a lot. However they were rude and accused me almost directly for being ignorant and stupid and that the defect was not in the device. I've sent them videos, and I kept a very calm and polite tone all the way. After they realized I was right about the problem, they said I shouldn't have contacted them in the first place and they don't usually support the products, it's Roland who do, etc. OK, I agree but why the rude tone, why the wild accusations about me being stupid using their "divine product". It was just a case of yet another snobbish company that won't admit fault. Which is why I purchased the Behringer instead.

I bought the Behringer Model D for €250. It’s still in great shape and sounds exactly like a Minimoog. If it broke, I’d throw it away and purchase another one, not sure why I would bother with repairs. The Minimoog reissue costs €6000. So, I can purchase 24 Boogs for the price of it. Let’s cut the cr*p about what repair guys or snobs say about Behringer. Yeah, they rip the designs of 50 year old synths whose companies went into bankruptcy long ago and if it wasn’t for cheap modern replicas like Behringer there wouldn’t be the analog synth revival. Let’s face it, almost nobody can purchase ridiculously priced vintage Minimoogs and there aren’t enough of them anyway.

@RandyFF drop an email to Gianni. If you haven’t yet communicated, just use the Studiologic website form to contact the support and you will get an answer from Gianni on email.

The Numa X pianos sound much better than Pianoteq IMO but I’m notorious for disliking PT. I wouldn’t bother with external hardware/software pianos when the onboard pianos are more than serviceable. Same for Rhodes.

@CHarrell Give it some time (if you can afford keeping it for a while before returning it). My two “first” impressions were also meh which is why I returned it the first time. The second time I wasn’t too impressed either. However after an initial adaptation it’s a good piano IMO. What firmware are you on?

On my Numa the highest key was clacking and a bit heavy to press. I unscrewed very slightly on of the screws on the right panel and all was fixed. I recorded it back then: https://youtu.be/idGJSuekSaw

I've returned a Numa X Piano 88 to replace it with a CP88 because I was also a bit underwhelmed by the Numa. The CP88 had slightly better action and better sounds too, however it's not 2x times better. I'd say overall the CP88 is something like 1.3x better 😀 Due to problems with my back and the heavy weight though I sold the CP88 and finally went back to a Numa X Piano 73. One needs to be realistic in their expectations. The Numa X Piano 73 is not the best keyboard out there but it's not the worst either. Actually it's pretty good, so I'd say it's above the middle line we can draw between perfect and trash. Taking in mind how light it is and how many features it offers for the price, it becomes an even better offer. But again, I wouldn't expect this to be your dream instrument. P.S. BTW, I've also briefly owned a YC73 with the same action as CP73 and to be honest it's not at the same level as the CP88/YC88 and although I haven't compared them side by side with the TP-110 in the Numa, it may well turn out that the CP73 has worse action than the Numa.

I mentioned to Gianni about the overly loud pedal noises and he explained that this is mostly an issue with the switch type of pedal that comes with the non-GT models. The half-pedal produces gradual values from which the speed of pressing the pedal can be devised and so the loud noises are only for very fast kicks of the pedal. And the switch generates the max value. He said they may change the behavior. BTW, the Roland DP10 works as a half-pedal, although it requires setting it as a different type depending on whether you’re playing an acoustic piano sound or electric which defeats the purpose (also reported to Studiologic and they may fix that behavior) and indeed with a half-pedal the noises are much more natural.

The other guys already said it but I can confirm: the TP-110 is tight and firm. I think the action in the CP88 is slightly heavier, especially as static weight (which is something I didn't like BTW) but other than that they have similar inertia. I'd say the TP-110 is slightly lighter as action but not by much. But on a scale I'd say the TP-110 is within the heavy zone. However it's not sluggish and unpleasant as the TP-100LR that I hated. As to piano sounds and amplification. It's funny that on headphones (Sennheiser HD650-s) I found the CP88 having a slight edge with its piano sounds that are more polished, refined and well mapped in terms of touch to sound, however where we rehearse there's an expensive stereo PA with mixer and the Numa surprisingly sounds better than the CP88. I haven't compared them side by side since I sold the Yamaha before getting the Numa but I remember the CP88 had a slightly heavy bottom end in its acoustic pianos whereas the Numa is spot on, it almost gives me the impression of playing a real acoustic piano in that rehearsal room. I'm saying this only to focus on how it's all about amp, speakers, etc. I guess it's the EQ that determines how we perceive a sound that we all know, the acoustic piano. P.S. BTW, I downloaded and installed all the optional pianos from their website and found that the "C-183 Japan" is really great. I also find the one that comes preinstalled "Model C 2013 Japan Grand" also really well balanced in the rehearsal room. There are many sample, so if you find the piano sound not very good on particular set of speakers/amp, it's worth it to go through all the pianos since they have very different signatures and EQ-ing.

Thank you for the nice words! I studied Engineering Physics in the university but didn’t finish it because I started working as a (self-educated) software engineer during the big boom of the IT industry in Bulgaria in the late 90-s when many European and US companies opened offices here. So, I have some rusty and incomplete engineering background along with software skills and wild piano obsession 😀 Ultimately my DIY project isn’t very well designed but served as an inspiration for other people who created more professional solutions. But it was a lot of fun and gave me something for my mind to work out on for almost two years on and off.

I'm not at my Numa and won't have chance to test it in the next days but according to the MIDI specifications it can also transmit MIDI messages when those knobs are pressed (for instance to enable/disable the zones), so it should again be a context dependent MIDI CC. But that's for the knobs when pushed as buttons. Also, that's when the Numa is configured as Common MIDI channel. There are too many variables, so unless I test it directly, don't take my word for granted. In one word: yes. But there are some considerations. Some people may remember that I initially ordered a Numa X Piano 88 that I found lukewarm regarding piano sounds, keyboard response, etc. Which I then replaced with a Yamaha CP88 that I was very happy about. But then I sold it and got a Numa X Piano 73 😀 With the above paradox in mind, let me explain. I consider myself mostly a classical pianist and a piano aficionado. I have a Yamaha AvantGrand N1X hybrid digital piano with real grand piano action and I'm known on some forums for being really picky about tiny small nuances in everything and how I dislike all digital piano actions except for those in the hybrid pianos since they are real piano actions. I also have made my own DIY MIDI controller from an old grand piano action by designing my own electronics and control software using optical sensors, it's called Cybrid. It's apparent that I'm overly critical about digital pianos and especially about their actions, so you can rarely hear me praising any digital piano 😀 I guess that's what's happened with my first Numa. Besides, it was at firmware 1.0 which is known to have touch response that was a bit off and they improved the touch response in the next firmwares. But I had already sold it. At that time I started playing in an amateur pop/rock band and had to forget about my classical/jazz piano skills which is why I had to lower my expectations and be more tolerant towards digital pianos. The CP88 was a better piano than the Numa X Piano 88 in almost every respect. I used it on a few rehearsals and it was exactly what I needed, however I have disc herniation and problems with my back and I quickly realized the CP88 was too heavy and caused me back aches. Also, it couldn't fit in the trunk of my car (had to lower the back seats). So, I decided to seek a 73-key keyboard that is as light as possible. Hence, the Numa X Piano 73. At that point I was already looking realistically at what I need. It wasn't for classical music at home. It was a stage instrument that I will use for pop/rock music 😉 That's why the Numa X Piano 73 is actually pretty good and I am very happy with it. Hope that helps and apologies for the long post.

I come from a generation that used to search through isles of CD-s in a music store and would spend hours there and I used to love it. But now that there's Apple Music (and other streaming services) with all the music in the world, I like it so much more browsing through the endless Apple Music library, especially doing it at home, switching easily between various albums and releases, cross-reading Wikipedia articles about the album/composer/musician/conductor/orchestra, correlating with linked articles, reading reviews, without the anxiety that I am at a store and spending too much time on music selection. I started wondering what exactly I did like about music stores at all.

I doubt those sell as hot cakes. One can purchase cassette players and recorders too, even they are not completely abandoned. But going back to the OP, there’s probably a reason why CD Baby are moving entirely to digital distribution.