CyberGene

That’s why one should read the forum on hourly basis instead of relying on search 😀

I just added a P.S. to my post above to comment on the “issue” with the acoustic piano patches playability and touch (which I believe after a few firmware updates is still there, but is not an issue with the touch response and rather with their piano engine).

I have owned a Yamaha YC73 (then a CP88, both sold) and now own a Numa X Piano 73. Now, regarding actions, the one in YC/CP 73 is of lower quality than the CP88 but that’s not the question. It’s an OK action, however it’s also not their best action and many people don’t like it, kind of springy and clanking, plasticky. Compared to it the TP-110 action in the Numa X Piano is IMO better, has a bit of firmer and more solid feeling, somehow in between the CP73 and the CP88. As to other features, they are very similar. I think the Yamaha acoustic and electric piano sounds are slightly better although not by much. The electric pianos on the Numa are modeled and I like them a lot, very tweakable. I think to a certain degree they feel better than the ones on the CP. The Yamaha ones are among the best sampled electric pianos in a keyboard, however if you are picky enough you’d hear the velocity switching. With the modeled electric pianos on the Numa you have a much more fluid response. The acoustic pianos on the Numa are a mixed bag, there are good ones, there are not so good ones but they are all varied. There are some optional samples that you can download and I love one of a Japanese piano (apparently a Yamaha). The rest of the sounds are comparable to the CP and I think each has some sounds that are slightly better than the other. As to features, they are also similar, they both have USB audio interface, both have audio input, however on the Numa you have 4 mono audio inputs (can be used as different combinations of mono/stereo) and you can apply effects to the audio, whereas on the Yamaha you can’t. Also, the MIDI implementation of the Numa is IMO better than the one on the CP. On the Numa you can easily treat an external MIDI zone as an internal. The Yamaha has more direct control over everything whereas the Numa has a different interface which some people also love but it’s not as direct as on the Yamaha. I also think the build quality of the Yamaha is generally better than Studiologic which have their problems from time to time. P.S. Even after all the firmware updates on the Numa, I think it has a bit weird response when played pianissimo with acoustic piano patches. I have analyzed it a lot and I believe the actual issue is not related to the keyboard touch response, which is basically great, but to the piano engine. I think they use some mix of modeling and sampling and I hear that even when played pianissimo, the sound comes out as just a quieter mp sample. I’m not really sure what they do and how their engine works but as a hardcore acoustic pianist I find it disappointing for demanding solo piano such as e.g. classical music which is my main interest. However I use the Numa in an amateur pop/rock band and I have zero problems with that little issue. But I think it’s important to note, since if I have to choose one of the two keyboards for serious solo piano music, I’d take the Yamaha. Hope that helps.

As a color blind person (I have protanomaly) I realize that I have big difficulties in distinguishing between the yellow and green colors of parts A and C. Luckily the colors can be changed (the rose works for me) but that is a per-live-set setting and not a global one, so I have to update all live sets one by one 😕 I will report that to the IdeaScale, hopefully they can provide an option for global part color override. It’s also a bit strange that delay and reverb send level is the same for all parts. Other than these two small niggles it’s a really nice keyboard, I love it.

Went to a store today after work and tested the CK 61. The pianos, etc were good but I spent most of the time tweaking the analog leads, applying effects to turn them into some psychedelic soundscapes. Absolutely loved it. There was only a floor model available so they gave me a 10% discount off the €1000 price which I think is a good deal and I purchased it for €900, ordering the dedicated soft bag online for €100. I was amazed at how light and small it looked there! Not sure who said it first, but I agree this is the proper reface.

@Paul Woodward what do you use the Korg and the Yamaha for? Is the CK only for organs? Because I assume the acoustic and electric pianos are quite good on the Grandstage?

Although I’d love to know his piano, I’d prefer to know the piano of Lyle Mays or Chick Corea 😀 No, no, I know what pianos they played, please don’t answer.

So, what’s the consensus about the CK61 after some of you have owned it for a while, is it a keeper? I’ve been loving my Numa X Piano 73, however I replaced my SUV with a new one that is PHEV last month and the trunk is unfortunately smaller (due to the batteries) and seems I can’t fit my Numa X Piano anymore without folding the seats but that’s asking the burglars to thrash your car since they will see there’s a music instrument inside 😒 I can only fit a keyboard that is 96cm long and that leaves me with almost no choice. The CK seems like a good fit though.

I also thought the same. BTW, one of the reasons might be that as far as I can see Greg is not using aftertouch at all, let alone poly AT, I guess he’s too used to the good old “push a slider / mod wheel” thing. With that in mind, indeed, all could’ve been done on any workstation from the last 20 years. And he’s giant, no two opinions!

@stoken6 here’s another excerpt from the parameters guide that clarifies my previous doubt: So, on that screen you have to assign CC 78, min value 0, max value 8 and that should make the corresponding control wheel change the ninth drawbar smoothly across the entire range of movement. I feel kind of ready to purchase the Fantom-06 already 😀

@stoken6 don’t take my word for granted though, someone with the Fantom should try it to confirm. For instance, the supported MIDI values for each drawbar (CC) are in the range 0-8 and I’m not sure if the control wheels can be scaled to utilize their entire travel to a compressed 0-8 range. Maybe they can only send 0-127 which would mean the actual 9 drawbar positions are within a tiny region of movement…

I don’t have a Fantom-0 but based on the Parameter’s Guide, it should be possible: Taking in mind you can assign MIDI CC to any of the two additional wheels (note it’s not the combined pitch/mod stick which cannot be reassigned to anything else besides pitch and modulation CC#1)

Can’t agree more! I have actually thought a lot about how these two chords/scales overlap a lot and where they differ (D Eb E) can still be played each over the “other” chord and still sound OK, kind of like be-bop semitone approaches/outlines. Besides, I’ve noticed that heavily altered dominant chords like these two allow for almost anything to be played on top and still sound convincing, provided it’s played convincingly 😉

If you only play: G - F - B - E - Ab That’s a fairly typical (if not the most common) voicing of the G7b9 chord in jazz. As is known, the most common scale for 7b9 chords is the diminished (half-step-whole-step) scale: G Ab Bb B C# D E F So, adding the Bb is part of the diminished harmony too. And it’s only the Eb on top that kind of messes it up but I guess it’s forgiven for top notes to be anything 😀 (don’t have better explanation/approximation) P.S. Frankly though, sounds too bloated and artificial to me, at least in these examples you’ve provided. I guess in another context it might be less exaggerated.

@kelp ahh, so there’s actually an advanced mod matrix, thank you. I downloaded the reference manual and the parameters guide and just taking a quick glimpse at them shows there’s almost infinite potential in the Fantom-0 series. I’ve had it in my Thomann cart for a month now, ready for ordering but I’ve been cautious because I previously owned MODX6 and it made me hate workstations due to the confusing complexity. However it seems the Fantom is more intuitive and also offers shortcuts to things like split/layer to make it easier for live playing, so it may be the much better instrument for me. Besides, I’m in love with the synth sounds that I hear on demos. It’s my 44th birthday today and I usually treat myself with a new keyboard/synth on my birthdays, so probably a good reason to finally hit the “order” button 😀

I don’t have a Fantom-06 but I’ve been really close to purchasing one, so your question interested me. Do you mean that you can’t assign a wheel to a concrete destination, e.g. partial one cut-off, but only assign it globally to a CC and all partials will respond to it equally, regardless of the type of filter (LPF or HPF) of each partial? If that’s the case, doesn’t sound like a very flexible mod matrix. Alternatively, you can put the same sound in two zones and only enable one partial in each, and then assign the wheel only to the zone with the corresponding partial but it sounds too awkward anyway. I'll wait for knowledgeable people to share their experience since this sounds like a situation I may encounter myself too. Other than that, how do you find the Fantom-06, is it easy to use?

That’s why I suggested Apple, they have it all. Besides, they also have the entire music in the world, so you can ask the AI to match sounds from given songs, for instance.

Fantom 8?

I asked Gianni if their PCM engine can provide monophonic synth sounds with portamento. He replied it’s possible and is on their wish-list but can’t say if and when they will implement it.

I installed the update and I can't really comment on the new features, such as e.g. improved electric piano modeling, because the e-pianos were already excellent enough for me and is what I love most about the Numa X; or the per-key touch calibration because I haven't noticed any irregularities on mine, however I can confirm they fixed something I reported to them previously: inconsistent behavior with the Roland DP-10 half-pedal when used in continuous mode. Previously the pedal would work as a half-pedal but different settings were required for acoustic pianos (Continuous A mode) and electric pianos (Continuous B mode). And that would make it unusable if you didn't want to switch between A and B anytime you switch sounds. Glad to confirm now you can use the Continuous A mode both for acoustic and electric pianos.

I like what these guys do, but they remind me a bit of the infamous “The best A-ist among B-ists”, fill in A and B. They are both good keyboardists and good synthesists but I don’t think they are the best in either, or that they demonstrate any synergetic qualities from these two abilities. Don’t get me wrong, they are both great but when was the last time you poured yourself a glass of wine while listening to a CD of theirs? 😉

Yes, I have them both and they sound great. Besides, I also have the Arturia too. Wondering if the G-Force one is better.

But that's because you look at it in isolation. Logic Pro as a DAW, compared to other DAW-s. Of course nobody cares just about a DAW, they are all the same. You missed my point. It's about the total integration of everything. Why are people gigging with iPad-s or Macs with MainStage? It's because you have very dependable hardware/software integration. Why are so many people using Logic Pro (the second most used DAW, according to that poll) if you consider it's only available on macOS, unlike all other DAW-s that are available both on PC and Mac? It's because Logic Pro runs really well on their own hardware, and especially now on Apple Silicon it's just head and shoulders above the competition. You can run countless instances of the most resource-intensive plugins on a fanless laptop such as the MacBook Air. Apple may not be revolutionary when you compare single components in isolation, but it's the entire ecosystem and how well the separate components integrate that's revolutionary.

Every DAW nowadays comes with a complete suite of plugins. If you don’t need them, don’t use them 😉 But Logic Pro’s set of instruments and FX is often mentioned as the best bang for buck. The closest I found to a usage stats poll is this: https://www.production-expert.com/production-expert-1/2023-daw-user-survey-the-results Logic Pro is the second most popular DAW after Pro Tools (well, the blog that conducted the poll used to be a Pro Tools blog, so that may have influenced the results but they mentioned it). Hardly seems like Logic Pro is “falling further” except if you mean it used to be number one but got overthrown by Pro Tools.

How is that measured? People switch to other DAW-s? Or it has less features? Or is having issues? Or are you just sharing your own feelings of how Logic Pro compares to other DAW-s?