Rate the VA synths

[Dave Bryce]

Let's play "Rate the Virtual Analog Synth". Which ones do you like? Dislike? Why?

 

My criteria is based mostly on raw sound, not feature set - the only way that I'll buy a synth is if I get lost in time when I play with it.

 

With that in mind, I have to say that I really like the Access Virus. Don't have one yet, but I definitely plan to get one - quite the nasty sounding little box. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

As far as disappointments go, I would probably say that I was left pretty cold by the Oberheim OB-12. Not what I was looking for at all - kinda sad, because it's a nice looking instrument.

 

Anybody else have an opinion on this subject?

 

Oh, yeah - no turning this into a "Virtual vs. Real analog" thread...

 

dB

[Jim Aikin]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Oh, yeah - no turning this into a "Virtual vs. Real analog" thread...

 

Optimistic, David. You think you can control that? Oh, I forgot. You're the moderator.

 

For my money, the most neglected synth in the lot is the Quasimidi Polymorph. I seldom use the ph- spelling anymore, but I have no choice here: it's ph!@#$%in' phat! They really did some interesting stuff with the distortion algorithm.

 

In general, all of the digital stuff tends to sound just a teensy bit clean and glassy to me. I *like* the sound, don't get me wrong -- but then, I like FM synthesis too. I'm not sure where the mysterious X-factor lies. Maybe in the filter cutoff curve, maybe in the waveform itself.

 

If forced to choose among the VA synths, I'd probably go for the most expensive of the bunch: the Waldorf Q. I like the dual filter implementation a lot, and the wavetables give you a pretty vast timbral palette.

 

The Novation Supernova II (to be reviewed in the January issue of Keyboard, BTW) has a lot going for it too. All three oscillators can be synced to different master frequencies, the LFOs will go way up into the audio range, a number of filter modes are included.... Any of these synths will do beefy basses and Obie pads, so the differences among them, for me anyhow, come down to how far you can push the programming into the stratosphere. Others may not agree.

 

--Jim Aikin

[marino]

This question is teasing for someone that has lived the transition between analog and digital. Selective memory can mess with judgement! Just as an example, I played a Memorymoog recently after many years and thought, "What a THIN sound, it's not at all like the one in my memory!" (my brain memory - the analog one)

And, I used to play games with my friends, programming "digital" sounds with the Matrix-12 and "analog" sounds with the K2000...

Back to the topic.

 

I have played quite a few VAs, but didn't buy one yet. Well, what I'm looking for is a replacement for the Rhodes Chroma that I recently sold (I'm a total and hopeless idiot), so I'm not easily pleased.

 

First was the Prophecy; nice, charming sound.. but it tended to disappear from mixes.

Then the Nord Lead. Wonderful on paper. No character. Sorry.

Yamaha AN1x: I like it. There is something full and aggressive about its sound. But I only played it for half an hour, so I can't really say.

The Supernova: some good *soft* sounds, but a limited range of colors for me.

Korg Z1: no fatness, no bigness, no way.

Korg MS2000... mm, better.. I programmed it a bit, it can be fun. But still lacking something.

Supernova II: fuller sound than the I, but I simply didn't like it to the point of signing a check.

Oberheim OB-12: sounds kind of..."fake"! The presets are heavily arpeggiated and effected, but the guts of the sound are very weak. Well, a retailer told me that it has sampled sounds rather than synthesis, or maybe a combination of the two. Anyone knows the truth?

Virus: I tried the first version, and I was impressed but not amazed. I can't wait to play the new one, especially that Indigo thing that looks too cool! But they are a bit expensive, in my country at least. I think its dual filter is quite similar to the one in the Q. I still haven't seen a Q anywhere BTW.

 

Actually, the only VA that (kind of) convinced me with its sound quality is a soft synth, the VAZ Modular. Good filters

and fantastic programmability. I'm not familiar with Reaktor yet, but I'm told the filter in VAZ are a little better, in their naked state at least.

Unfortunately, I have a slow computer, so any serious use of VAZ must wait for the next computer update. Sigh...

 

my 1/2 cent (an Euro cent, roughly)

 

marino

 

 

[This message has been edited by marino (edited 11-17-2000).]

[Max Ventura]

I have owned them all (I am a dealer) and recorded some tracks with all of them. I can tell you this much, in total honesty:

 

ACCESS VIRUS (and also Virus Indigo, Virus Rack, Virus KB, which are all made from the same DSP engine):

it has VERY deep and solid sound quality and filter power, ADSR routing and all you could look for in a synth trying to emulate analog.

HOWEVER, its interface, no matter how rich with buttons and knobs, hides many vital features under layers of menus, chain linked, to the effect that it'll take you hours to do what you can achieve in one minute on other machines. One FutureMusic (UK's synth magazine) columnist says about it that "no matter how good a machine like this sounds, if you cannot have it do what you intended in the first place in a reasonable amount of time".

Result: I got rid of the Virus ASAP.

 

NOVATION SUPERNOVA: excellent ease of use, excellent quality of sounds, excellent routing and realtime possibilities, excellent polyphony and multi (but do we really need it), let down only by the following: rackmount format is very awkward and uncomfortable for tweaking knobs, and the price is just ridiculous.

RESULT: I bought (and used) the Nova instead, which has cheaper D/A convertors but is easier to have around and the price is right, too.

 

KORG MS-2000: yeah yeah, it sounds good & analog, it's got nice features, matrix routing & sequencer, but it's built like a toy, the knobs, frame and components are low-quality, and it's not as easy to interact with as it looks at a first glance, expecially in the sequencer.

RESULT: I got rid of it.

 

KORG Z-1:

not in the same class as those mentioned above, it has interesting sounds and possibilities but is such a pain to use, and the operating system is soooo slow that I not only got rid of it, I even kicked it out of the store.

RESULT: I shot it, too.

 

ROLAND JP-8080: not a glitch, not a difect. Perfect realtime control, excellent filters and sounds, simple to use, and loaded. And the fact that it has limited poly and multi is not a minus for me; it's a plus. The keyboard version is the one to take on the road.

RESULT: the only one that still sits on my desktop, unmoved.

 

CLAVIA NORDLEAD:

Excellent quality, excellent sounds & filters & design, but an unexciting machine after all, and very poshy expensive.

RESULT: I can get the same sounds from the JP.

 

YAMAHA AN-synthesis (AN1-X, EX-series and PLG-cards):

Tremendous power, searing sounds and balls to boot, the AN sounds can really damage your speakers like nothing I have tried before, not even the Sherman Filterbank goes so low-freq without breaking up. In fact, I think Yamaha invented physical modeling, didn't they?

However, realtime controls are barely there if at all, it's messy in routing, polyphony and multi are limited, and implementation is limited to a few Yamaha models.

RESULT: The AN-1x is usable, but I'll wait for a desktop model with more controls.

 

ENSONIQ FIZMO:

Not a VA in the proper sense, this guy is strange but sounds REALLY good if you're after unheard-of sounds, and it's even pretty easy to use, too. Shame about the no-display issue, and the desktop version that never came out.

RESULT: used in on some tracks. Needs patience, though.

 

KAWAI K-5000 S:

Everything I said for the Fizmo applies to this guy, too.

 

WALDORF "Q":

Very powerful, lotsa possibilities, big specs, but ridiculously expensive, not as easy to use, and, after all, not that exciting. The NordLead's fiance'.

RESULT: never even considered using it.

 

OBERHEIM OB-12:

Absolutely the best user interface I have ever seen in a machine OF ANY KIND, ever. The screen that jumps to display graphically what you're doing on the knobs is just great. Very similar to the JP-8000, this guy has a lot of possibilities but the D/A convertors suck, and in the end the sound comes out blurred and lifeless.

RESULT: I'd take it on the road without a second thought.

 

One more thing:

Analog synths were quite specialized for certain sounds, at the time. If you want a lead, Odissey or Mini type of sound, get the JP or the Virus or the Clavia. If you want OB-style pads, get the JP or the Novation, if you want bleeps, squelch & such get the AN1-X, as well as for basses. It's not a matter of which sounds better, but more a matter of "which one is gonna let you do what you have in mind in less time?"

 

Max,

Italy

[Pim]

I made some recordings with the JP8000.

For pads this machine is not bad at all.

One big problem however: the DSP generates "clicks" when you use lots of resonance and a low filter frequency.

 

Nordlead. Not my kind of taste. Too thin. Agressive.

The pitchbender is great. You can make your own vibrato's with it.

 

Z1. Probably the most impressive of all. (soundwise)

But why are the best sounds in the B-bank?

And where is the human interface? This machine does not invite you to program your own sounds.

 

Access Virus. A winner. I played the Indigo, she looks so cute! The sound is rich and fat.

 

Nord Modular. I could get one for free. I refused the offer... Why? The distributor in my country would appreciate it if I would use one. But its sound... I do not like the sound of Clavia. It sounds thin. The software of the Modular is brilliant.

 

MS2000. Great promise, dull sound. This is the MS20 of this century.

 

Microwave XT. A virtual digital/analogue.

From all VA's, this one has the most original sound. It's a virtual PPG Wave 2.--

It has some aliasing parameters to make your sound "go bad like an 8bit"

Excellent for pads and other "evolving" sounds.

 

My overall impression of the VA's I know, is that the designers try to emulate the low notes of an analogue, but forget that we need more than just "left hand notes".

The higher end of VA's is terrible. But the Access Virus proves that one day they will be almost as good as an analogue.

Almost.

 

------------------

www.dancewave.nl

[Synthworld]

My favorite VA is the Clavia Nord Modular - both for it's sound and it's feature set.

It's versatility allows for both thin and thick sounds - you just program what you want.

A synthesist's synthesizer.

 

Zon

[Guest]

JP8000 & 8080 are very cool. Great interface and the filters sound pretty good. They do sqawk a bit if the resonance is jacked up though (maybe my speakers/ room)

 

Z1 interface is not meant for programming which is a major drag and basicly killed the machine for me.

 

The Fizmo is a killer unit and takes a little while to get used to. Easy to create really weird sounds. Takes a little while to get subtle simple sounds but after you get over the learning curve it's a great peice.

 

MS2000 looks great but the sound just aint there. Too bad cause I love the way it looks.

 

I don't like the Nord units and swore I would never own one until I saw and heard the modular. Man it rocks! I love the interface and it's got some amazing sounds. Very cool software and it's so portable.

 

Some of the best modeling stuff I 've heard also are the Moogerfooger TDM plugins. These are killer if you use ProTools. Don't like the Virus plugin much though.

 

Although I still love my Moogs I think the the modeling gets better and better, and it's so much more stable than the analog stuff.

I'm really wanting to check out the VST instruments and see how they are.

[dansouth]

Originally posted by argomax:

ROLAND JP-8080: not a glitch, not a difect. Perfect realtime control, excellent filters and sounds, simple to use, and loaded. And the fact that it has limited poly and multi is not a minus for me; it's a plus. The keyboard version is the one to take on the road.

RESULT: the only one that still sits on my desktop, unmoved.

 

I agree. The blue JP's have a warm, rich, smooth, punchy, satisfying sound. They are easy to program, which is good, because some of the factory programs are more useful for the showroom than they are for stage or studio. Move those knobs and sliders, and you'll have yourself a winner!

 

I tried a Yamaha AN-1x in a store, and I liked the sound. Not as thick as the JP, but it seemed to live in a very useful middle ground between fat and cutting.

 

I mentioned this in another thread, but I dislike the nord with a passion. Not only is the sound uninspiring, but my ears ring every time I use it. Messy D/A circuitry? Who cares? It's outta here.

 

I still think that the venerable K2000 has better, fatter, punchier analog emulations than most of the VA synths. Go figure!

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

I still think that the venerable K2000 has better, fatter, punchier analog emulations than most of the VA synths. Go figure!

 

I, too, love the K2000 for it's analog-type sounds. Since the VAST architecture allows for up to four basic waveforms per voice, you can effectively get 96 "oscillators" per program...makes for some seriously fat sounds.

 

There's a disk of programs for it called "Best of Analog" written by Andrew Schlesinger that are nothing short of outstanding.

 

dB

[marino]

There is quite a debate among Kurzweil users on this subject: It is as good at analog emulation as a VA? The filters in the Supernova II are certainly smoother and warmer than those in the K2000, but the overall sound quality of the Kurz is a bit fuller.

I used it millions of times for analog-type sounds and I wasn't disappointed; it doesn't have too much punch, but it does have a very big bottom end. You certainly can fool a lot of listeners with it.

If I'll ever buy a VA, I'm not going to sell the Kurzweil for sure; it does too many things really well! And with the Triple Modular Processing on the K2600, you're quite close to the power of a modular.

As I previously stated, the only synth I would prefer to the K2000 for analog sounds is the VAZ Modular.

Or, of course, I could fire up the Matrix-12. God bless whoever designed that thing!

 

marino

[dansouth]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

I, too, love the K2000 for it's analog-type sounds...

 

There's a disk of programs for it called "Best of Analog" written by Andrew Schlesinger that are nothing short of outstanding.

 

dB

 

Do you know how I can order a copy? Does it consist solely of programs, or of programs with samples?

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

Do you know how I can order a copy? Does it consist solely of programs, or of programs with samples?

 

It's just programs - no samples. If you can't get one from Kurzweil, I'll be glad to hook you up.

 

dB

[Erik Norlander]

Disclaimer: I'm a hardcore "real analog" enthusiast, so my opinion here should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

As far as the modeling synths go, the Yamaha AN stuff has the best sounding filters. Really smooth and clear but with guts, and just the right curves on the envelopes. The resonance is particular musical. I believe they use the same filters for their sample playback machines too, but I'm not sure.

 

The Waldorf machines definitely interest me for animated 3D-sounding bright evolving pads. They are truly unique in this application. Waldorf synths seem to have more top than any others, and the top is not annoying nor harsh. Sehr gut, mein Freunden. But they also seem to me to be a bit weak for leads, basses and drones.

 

If I had to use *only* modeling synths (eek), I would definitely choose one of the Yamaha ANs and one of the newer Waldorfs.

 

Hmmm, let's see if I can sneak this in, Dave...

 

(Moogs rule!)

 

Cheers,

 

Erik

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by eriknorlander@thetank.com:

As far as the modeling synths go, the Yamaha AN stuff has the best sounding filters. Really smooth and clear but with guts, and just the right curves on the envelopes. The resonance is particular musical. I believe they use the same filters for their sample playback machines too, but I'm not sure.

 

I, too, liked to AN1x a lot, actually - I believe if it had a less kludgy interface, it would have done better. It had the most realistic ring-mod of the bunch as well...

 

Hmmm, let's see if I can sneak this in, Dave...

(Moogs rule!)

 

Moog made a VA synth???? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

dB

[Alon]

I also like the AN1x.

 

It's been a while since I used one, but I don't remember it having anything that came even close to having Fat,Lush Pads...

 

I suppose it depends on what you're after...

 

I'm really liking some of the VST plugins...

 

PPG wave,Mercury,Pro52,Model-e...

 

I'm not saying that these are true %100 copies of the original, but they're pretty darn close, and excellent in their own right...

 

The ability to record these direct to disk is also a major plus factor...

 

In a couple of years, you'll be able to go to a plugins folder and choose just about any classic synth that was ever made, and even some new designs too...

 

I'd like to see the following classics converted soon...(with the original presets, of course)

 

1.JUNO 106

2.Matrix 12

3.JP-8

4.JX-3p

5.Arp2600

6.Moog memorymoog,taurus and more

7.Monopoly

 

etc.

 

I could go on, but eventually, I think just about everything will be made into a plugin.

 

It would be cool, if they came out with emulations of classic samplers also...

 

Imagine an original Emulator II, in all its true grit and glory on your Powerbook, with the original library of course !

 

If someone is not already doing this, well then they will be soon, I hope...

 

The processor power is already here...

I wonder how many synths you can open at one time, using a DP G4 ?

 

I still prefer to use outboard modules also, but I see things moving more and more towards the computer as newer and better software things keep coming out.

 

Also manufacturers need to stop holding back on the code, when it comes to Native versions of certain plugins.

 

I've read numerous places, that certain manufacturers have purposely not put the same algorithms in the software versions that are found in their hardware counterparts.(I'm refering mainly to fx here)

 

Anyone else know anything 'bout this ?

 

Just to add one thing...

 

The main reason I'm digging all of these emulations of old classics, is that they bring back a sense of nostalgia...

 

I'm almost getting the same kind of excitement as when I first tried the "Originals" ages ago when I was only a little kid...

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Alon (edited 11-22-2000).]

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Alon:

I'm really liking some of the VST plugins...

 

PPG wave,Mercury,Pro52,Model-e...

 

I'm not saying that these are true %100 copies of the original, but they're pretty darn close, and excellent in their own right...

 

The ability to record these direct to disk is also a major plus factor...

 

I was actually a bit disappointed by my first forays into the computer based synths. It's like when I tried rebirth - sure, the sounds were good, but it lacked the quirky feel of the 808. Next, I palyed with the Creamware Pulsar package for a while. It was fun, and had an interesting interface, but I didn't think the synths sounded like what it was that they were supposed to be emulating...I mean., they sounded pretty good - I especially liked their Juno 106 emulation - but it just didn't grab me.

 

However (as I've said in some other threads) having recently gotten myself a copy of Native Instruments B4, I am now much more fired up about the possibilities. I wanna try Reaktor again now...bless those folks for supporting MAS...

 

Speaking of which, I have yet to try using the VST instruments with Digital Performer...does it work? I would guess (hope?) that a VST shell program and OMS is all that's required to make these work within DP...

 

dB

[Alon]

Hey Dave, I don't use DP myself, but I read on another thread that Audio Ease's VST Wrapper will do the trick, allowing you to use VST instruments in DP.

[Dave Bryce]

Another moldy oldie from the back pages - I'd love to hear what those of you who weren't on the forum back in November think on this topic...

 

dB

[Mike Martin]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

Do you know how I can order a copy? Does it consist solely of programs, or of programs with samples?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

It's just programs - no samples. If you can't get one from Kurzweil, I'll be glad to hook you up.

 

dB

 

The Analog collection is a 30 disk set (yes, floppies) which contain both programs and samples. In many cases raw waveforms were sampled off of the original synth. In other instances only VAST was used to create the emulation. This set is NOT FREE. I'll have to find a price and get back you to.

 

The Analog Colleciton is also now included in larger collection on CD-ROM called Classic Synths. So in addition to all of the analog sounds you get all of the popular synths from the 80's and 90's. Here is a link with more info:

http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/html/classic_synth.html

 

Take Care,

Mike

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Mike Martin:

The Analog collection is a 30 disk set (yes, floppies) which contain both programs and samples. In many cases raw waveforms were sampled off of the original synth. In other instances only VAST was used to create the emulation. This set is NOT FREE. I'll have to find a price and get back you to.

 

We're talking about different things here, Mike.

 

The one that I am talking about is in fact a single disc, and is called Best of Analog. It was done by Andrew Schlesinger, and it only used the internal waves from the K2000. I believe the entire file was about 50k. It is an amazing feat of programming.

 

Last I heard (many years ago) it was pretty much free...I believe that it actually had a retail of something like $19.99, but were just giving them away when we sold the K2000 anyway...

 

dB

[Mike Martin]

David,

You're correct that file is free. It should be up on the Kurzweil FTP site, if not I can post it someplace too.

 

MM

[Gus Lozada]

(1) NI REAKTOR

 

(2) Access VIRUS. Yes, David, it sounds Incredibly great. I used it for my CD with cool results.

 

(3) Nord MODULAR. Amazing... cool vocoder.

 

(4) KORG's PROPHECY. Don't hit me !!! But IMO it sounds great.

 

GG Lozada

[coyote]

I posted a bit on this when I first came to the Forum. I (a very inexperienced synth dude) had just purchased my JP-8000 almost by accident. I was not looking to buy a synth at all, but my local shop had dropped the price of a new JP to $900. I played with it for a half-hour and was blown away by its sound and ease of use, so I embarked on a quest to determine whether that was a good way to blow almost a grand. I checked out VA synths in the under-$1400 range, and concluded the JP gave the best bang for the buck in inexpensive performance-oriented VAs. Here's what I found:

 

1. JP-8000. Great interface, great sounds, had me creating new stuff in minutes. Fits on top of my A-100. Inexpensive. Though it has limitations & quirks (the resonance 'click' in particular) as others have described, I have no regrets in choosing it.

 

2. OB-12. The layout wasn't quite as comfortable as the JP, it cost a few hundred more, and it's too big to fit on the A100. Sounded OK but didn't enthrall me.

 

3. Korg MS2000. Good sounds but limited polyphony, unwieldy size (like OB12), and I didn't care for the interface. And it was $50 more expensive than the JP.

 

4. NordLead 2. Good sounds and generally good interface, but I just couldn't dig the bend & modulation controls. Also at the top of my price range.

 

5. Yamaha AN1x. Inexpensive, but its stock sounds were only fair and its lack of controls meant submenu hell to change those sounds. Ruled it out instantly.

 

I didn't even consider any of the MIDI modules, and all the other VAs were above my acceptable price limit.

[steadyb]

Originally posted by Mike Martin:

David,

You're correct that file is free. It should be up on the Kurzweil FTP site, if not I can post it someplace too.

 

 

MM

 

 

How do you get to the Kurzweil FTP site?? I would love to have that file.

 

steadyb

[Mike Martin]

ftp://ftp.youngchang.com/pub/Kurzweil/Pro_Products/K2000-K2vx-K2500/Programs/

 

Its the first file on the list. Analog.krz

[aeon]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Let's play "Rate the Virtual Analog Synth". Which ones do you like? Dislike? Why? My criteria is based mostly on raw sound, not feature set

 

My loves:

 

Clavia Nord Modular: What a range of killer sound!...fat and thin, soothing and harsh, simple electronic tones and deep, organic timbres, all full of life. This would be my desert-island synth. Like Zon said, the Nord Mod is a synthesist's synthesizer. Every time I think I know the sound of the Nord Mod, someone on the 'net uploads a patch that makes me go back to school for another lesson in sound design. But wait, there's more! It sure can be a badass effects processor!

 

Waldorf Q: Fidelity for days and days...even the subtle sounds are somehow so bold, so hi-fi, so present. The Q has the richest oscillators of any VA implementation I have ever heard, hardware or software. Combined with the rest of the engine and the so-very-deep mod matrix, the sound is positively electric and detailed. In contrast to the MicroWave series, it has smooth wavetables. More than just a VA, this is a great-sounding digital synthesizer of incredible depth. It can make keyboard players ask "what's that?!" when they hear it in the context of a mix. This is a synth that sounds incredible with no internal/external effects.

 

Access Virus b: Simply musical. The sound can sit in a mix so well, but when it is time to step out front the Virus can absolutely rip. It has one of the best, if not the best, digital filter models I have ever heard. The overdrive/saturation/distortion algorithms have a raunch that is not polite, but are still so very pleasing and musical. Perhaps this sounds clichéd, but it does not sound American or Japanese...this is clearly a European synth in terms of sound, and a German-sounding one at that. The Virus has bags of character, and complements my Nord Mod and Q very, very well.

 

 

My I'm-still-evaluating-it:

 

Korg OASYS: Lots of analog models, a Prophet-5 emu, a MiniMoog emu, and oodles of plug-in effects. I know it sounds great, but I haven't had it long enough to say anything constructive. And no, I don't own a Prophet-5 or MiniMoog to do a proper compare-and-contrast! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

 

My didn't-care-fors:

 

Roland JP-8000: I spent 6 quality hours with one in a quiet studio, and while it did have some lovely pads and quality analog emulations, the sound seemed somehow lacking to me in terms of depth. Perhaps it was the relative dearth of modulation routings, or the fact the sounds seemed to need effects to be "fleshed out." Not at all bad, but not at all great IMHO.

 

Novation SuperNova: I spent a half-day with the original incarnation of this synth, and while it certainly sounded professional, the sound was not for me. It could do smooth and glassy better than any VA I have ever heard, but that kind of tone doesn't make my juices flow. The other analog tones were there too, but for some reason, it just didn't grab me. Oh, the reverb was nasty! Why did they even put that on there? Anyway, I know the Nova series has developed over time, but I have not checked it out since the original was released.

 

 

As for any other VA synths, if I didn't comment on them it is because I didn't get to spend more than a couple of hours of quality time with the synth in question. I have heard the Yamaha AN1x, Clavia Nord Lead (2), and Korg MS-2000, but have nothing worthwhile to say about them.

 

And as it regards softsynth VAs, I like NI Reaktor, Koblo Studio9000, and TC Works Mercury-1 in terms of sound.

 

Cool thread! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Max Ventura]

Anybody should owe to themselves to evaluate the Korg Electribe A, the blue one. It's flawless, besides its obvious (and well-declared) limitations. And it kicks the crap out of any TB-303, real or clone, analog or digital. And it does a marvellous MiniMoog impersonation, in the solo leads. Believe it or not.

Its sister, the R, the red one, is not so exciting, instead.

[Felix_dup1]

Tried the Korg MS2000, but found it to be thin (and 4-note polyphony - too little). I like the retro design though (with the wood side panels).

 

Had trouble getting into the Nord Lead2. I love the pitchbender and mod wheel, and the sounds are in-your-face (probably because there aren't any effects), but I didn't find the programming intuitive (I still want one, though).

 

Haven't had the pleasure of playing a Waldorf Q. I think I might like it. Also haven't played the Oberheim OB-12 - but I'm not a big Obie fan.

 

The Virus stuff also didn't seem very intuitive (but I only spent about 15 minutes noodling around). The Indigo has a real cool look about it - too bad it's just a Virus KB in different packaging.

 

I like the Novation stuff. Real nice - and powerful, too, with lots of effects and polyphony. A bit expensive, but probably worth it.

 

I like the JP-8000 - maybe because my first synth was a Juno-106 and the JP's layout seems very intuitive. Also very few features that you actually have to go to the edit menu for. This one's badly in need of an update, though - seems like it should be close to the end of it's product cycle. This one is great bang for the buck right now if you ask me!

[Michael Jones]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

quote:

---

Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

I still think that the venerable K2000 has better, fatter, punchier analog emulations than most of the VA synths. Go figure!

---

 

I, too, love the K2000 for it's analog-type sounds. Since the VAST architecture allows for up to four basic waveforms per voice, you can effectively get 96 "oscillators" per program...makes for some seriously fat sounds.

 

There's a disk of programs for it called "Best of Analog" written by Andrew Schlesinger that are nothing short of outstanding.

 

dB

 

 

ditto

[realtrance]

This is one of the best answers to the perennial "which VA is best?" question on the internet, in my opinion. Calm, reasoned, restrained and plausible responses to an issue all too many get hysterical over.

 

My only minor contribution here would be, based on my own experience, the universal truth for all the VAs described is that, unlike their analog ancestors, these instruments do not reveal their strengths, their flexibility, their range, readily.

 

Note the frequent comments re: the Nords' "iciness." This is true by default, and Rob Hjordik in the Nord Mod list recently mentioned that Clavia really has created _perfect_ sine, saw, square etc. waves (measurable on oscilloscope), which may account for some of this. Absolute accuracy, the essence of the digital dream. However, if you spend time and master any of the Nords, I (and I think many others) feel you can coax warmth, growl, scream out of them -- it just takes a little extra effort to get there.

 

And the Q -- yes, this is wonderful, distinctively musical sound; it wasn't apparent for a long time after the instrument's first release, though, again, because of the real novelty of the technology.

 

The Supernovas -- lots of criticism of them, too, when they first arrived, but over time Novation has learned to coax more musicality with less drenching out of their design. Now I think you could find many people happy with Novation's stuff (if not their prices ).

 

Finally, the ongoing amazement for those who've craved an AN1x and had an increasingly hard time finding a good used one: why hasn't Yamaha followed up? Why hasn't Roland really followed up on JP8000, either, for that matter (at least the latter are still available new, sans cooties).

 

I'm not in the industry, but I wonder whether despite the raves, AN1x and JP8K really came out "before their time" and didn't prove as profitable as the companies hoped.

 

Will we see more "VA" or is that story over? Do we have the risk of "featureitis" instead of "evolution," re-cobblings of existing technologies instead of addressing the limitations of the last generation of VA?

 

Because that's the other consistent message from this thread: "ah, if _only_ they had.....!!!!"

 

Again, I'd enjoy commentary from someone on the inside about why addressing such "if onlys" is not perceived as a profitable venture.

 

Thanks for your time and sorry for rattling on in an otherwise valuable thread....

 

rt