OT: I just got the vaccine. Ask me anything.

[jazzpiano88]

"the very act of accusing someone of virtue signalling is an act of virtue signalling in itself, and that its overuse as an ad hominem attack during political debate has rendered it a meaningless political buzzword." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

 

Let me see if I get this straight.

 

Joe: "I eat vegan, drive a Prius, and let my wife make all the decisions"

Bob: "Joe is virtue signaling"

Wikipidia: "Bob is virtue signaling by the very act of accusing Joe of virtual signaling"

 

Ergo, Wikipedia is itself virtue signaling and probably needs better editors to keep the unwary from using their references to clutter up the internet discussion forums.

[MathOfInsects]

"I only like people born between late August and late September."

--Virgo signaling

 

"I only like the second Hindu God."

--Vishnu signaling

 

"I only like people who have to be home by 10pm."

--Curfew signaling

 

"I only like the detective in Pokeman movies."

--Pikachu signaling

 

"I only like Incan citadels."

--Machu Picchu signaling

[o0Ampy0o]

Wikipedia (wikis by definition) is collaboratively edited and managed by its own audience and is not a reliable source for definitive information.

[jazzpiano88]

"I only like people born between late August and late September."

--Virgo signaling

 

"I only like the second Hindu God."

--Vishnu signaling

 

"I only like people who have to be home by 10pm."

--Curfew signaling

 

"I only like the detective in Pokeman movies."

--Pikachu signaling

 

"I only like Incan citadels."

--Machu Picchu signaling

 

"I don't like seafood or vegetables"

-- Iowegian Signaling

 

"Cubs are gonna win this year"

-- Loser Signaling

 

"I only play in C major"

-- Transposer emph "poser" Signaling"

[MathOfInsects]

Wikipedia (wikis by definition) is collaboratively edited and managed by its own audience and is not a reliable source for definitive information.

HOWEVER...generally speaking, its accuracy is comparable to privately edited encyclopedias, and almost always more expansive. I think the average amount of time that incorrect information exists on a listing is somewhere in the couple of seconds range.

[El Lobo]

The quote from Wikipedia was attributed to linguist David Shariatmadari in The Guardian.

[jazzpiano88]

Wikipedia (wikis by definition) is collaboratively edited and managed by its own audience and is not a reliable source for definitive information.

HOWEVER...generally speaking, its accuracy is comparable to privately edited encyclopedias, and almost always more expansive. I think the average amount of time that incorrect information exists on a listing is somewhere in the couple of seconds range.

 

Yep, The Borg is extremely efficient.

I kind of envision it as "The Fantastic Voyage" when a falsehood is detected like an Antibody within a human.

[Mighty Motif Max]

The quote from Wikipedia was attributed to linguist David Shariatmadari in The Guardian.

That explains why that quote itself has such strong wording. I mean, political buzzword isn't a term that's exactly a neutral phrase lol.

[David Emm]

A couple of weeks after I get my second vaccine, I want to run up and kiss some local politician on the mouth, on camera.

I have lockdown fever. I could use the inevitable brisk outdoor exercise right after I do it.

I'm closer to being under the dirt than above it, so as you can see, my permanent record has lost its hold over me.

[o0Ampy0o]

...generally speaking, its accuracy is comparable to privately edited encyclopedias, and almost always more expansive. I think the average amount of time that incorrect information exists on a listing is somewhere in the couple of seconds range.

Yep, The Borg is extremely efficient.

I kind of envision it as "The Fantastic Voyage" when a falsehood is detected like an Antibody within a human.

 

These are opinions which do not reflect reality.

 

You might be able to perform a test and measure one or a hundred+ particular items but unless you have inside knowledge it would be difficult to measure the average duration inaccurate information remains on the website as this certainly depends on the subject. Wikipedia does not employ or have volunteers thoroughly knowledgeable in every area. Same goes for its audience contribution / feedback. Even the most knowledgeable "authority / expert" in a given area does not know everything or even enough to immediately spot every possible inaccuracy.

 

There was a story on Wikipedia about a celebrity who had just passed away. It had incorrectly stated this celebrity never appeared on the Tonight Show after an incident between him and Johnny Carson which Wikipedia described in detail. I recalled seeing it all and I uploaded a description of an appearance taking place after that event. This celebrity never appeared again with Johnny but he did appear again with a guest host and as soon as Johnny returned from his vacation he made an overt reference to this guest and what he had done when he was on the show in his absence. It took Wikipedia several days to research it. Ultimately Wikipedia removed the original story they had posted because they could not confirm that the celebrity appeared with a guest host on that specific date, let alone what the celebrity did that night. They sought information showing the guest host and guests on that date but it was not available to Wikipedia. Preparing my contribution I had looked thoroughly for the records online and what I found on that date did not include a guest list. To their credit they removed the original story and my addition to that story because one cast a light on a strong possibility of inaccuracy. I do not know how long it was up before I discovered it but their inaccurate story was up for days before I put together my contribution challenging their information and it took days for them to remove it all.

[o0Ampy0o]

The quote from Wikipedia was attributed to linguist David Shariatmadari in The Guardian.

So says Wikipedia. ;-)

[OB Dave]

MRNA could be a revolution, to use a slightly overused term lately.

So you're saying it changes the game?

[Adan]

Of the many invalid forms of argument used regularly on the internet by people of all shapes and stripes, "virtue signaling" is one of the funniest, because it's essentially a way of saying "even if your position is correct I can ignore you because you have too much conviction in the correctness of your position" We don't need Wiki to tell us why that logic is not valid.

 

I know I should stop paying attention to threads that wander off topic like this, but I'm forever fascinated by how arguments are constructed and deconstructed. It's a heavy cross to bear . . .

[Mighty Motif Max]

MRNA could be a revolution, to use a slightly overused term lately.

So you're saying it changes the game?

 

This. Changes. Everything.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Of the many invalid forms of argument used regularly on the internet by people of all shapes and stripes, "virtue signaling" is one of the funniest, because it's essentially a way of saying "even if your position is correct I can ignore you because you have too much conviction in the correctness of your position" We don't need Wiki to tell us why that logic is not valid.

 

I know I should stop paying attention to threads that wander off topic like this, but I'm forever fascinated by how arguments are constructed and deconstructed. It's a heavy cross to bear . . .

 

No, while I do think the term is overused, if someone is purposely trying to make themselves sound good by unfairly putting down a group of people with a generalization I think the term is fair. With regards to this thread I didn't see too much of that, but virtue signalling is a thing. It's just a term that's been way-overused.

[MathOfInsects]

Hypocrisy and condescension are certainly real, and have no party.

 

I have never heard the term "virtue signaling" deployed in a context that was not related to positions usually associated with the left, with the term being used by people taking positions usually associated with the right.

 

If someone doesn't mean it that way, that fact alone should prompt them to move away from the term itself to describe the behaviors you mention, or else they'll be dismissed as a partisan parrot, even if unwitted.

 

And just going a bit further...it is possible for bad people to have good ideas, and vice versa. Even if one thinks the term is objective and benign, the impulse to use it signals complete surrender on a point itself, in favor of attacking the person saying it.

 

That too, sets someone at disadvantage for any legitimate discourse they might hope to have afterward.

 

I think it's an unfortunate approach, and have said as much even to friends. The content of "your" own mind, even if it's at odds with "mine," is far more compelling than some buzzword blanket ad hominem dismissal. Plus, I can't speak for others, but I am far more likely to be moved by a strong argument in favor of something I didn't previously agree with, than with name-calling* of some kind because of my own position.

 

As a strong recent public example, that LA restaurateur who showed her own closed restaurant next to a tent of happily gathering movie people in her own parking lot, went a lot farther than YOU ARE ALL LYING HYPOCRITE VIRTUE-SIGNALLERS would have.

 

As a primary driver of this thread's current OT status, I'm going to stay quiet now and let it get back on track.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Yes, even "dweeb"

[ajstan]

Received the first Pfizer dose on 3/18. No reaction other than my arm would feel sore off-and-on around the area where the shot was administered over the next 3 weeks. Sort of felt like a nerve impingement rather than a bruise.

 

Received the 2nd dose last Thursday (4/8). No reaction at all other than a bit of soreness for a couple of days that felt like a bruise, but it's gone now.

 

FWIW, I also got the flu shot in the fall when it became available.

[Docbop]

Get my second dose later this week, glad I did it.

[johnchop]

Welp, my kid (18) got the J&J shot yesterday around 2:30 pm, and the body aches kicked in at 8:00 pm. Kept him up most of the night. Hoping he'll text us soon to say he's feeling better. This morning's news re: J&J shot and clots isn't worrisome. 6 out of 6.8M doses? I'd take that risk. Glad they are being exceedingly careful all the same.

 

Edit: he's not feeling better. One of the 55% of folks who gets pretty sick afterwards. Here's hoping it's resolved by tomorrow a.m.

[EscapeRocks]

Hey all: circling back.

 

My use of the term "virtue signalling" had, no political impetus behind it. It's also a term I learned at least 20 or more years ago to simply indicate those who seem to take an opportunity to put themselves up while knocking you down.

I used it here in a general sense.

FYI I have had the shots so I don't come from a particular viewpoint.

 

One of my pet peeves (I don't have animals, so I have peeves ) is when it appears people group ALL those who express a strong feeling a being the same, and using pejoratives to describe them. We even see it here on non-hot button topics: "Guitarists are stupid," "A 'real' musician.." "Those who don't like xxxx music are uneducated..."

 

As far as it relates to covid, not everyone who had or has concerns in a nut job conspiracy theorist. Are they out there Of course they are.

 

My personal thoughts on the whole thing as to the genesis of the push back against vaccination and other things related was the initial overreach and setting of expectations by the government (and I mean that as an entity, not any particular political party).

After awhile, people reached a saturation point.

 

Now then, my personal thought on the entire thing: life is about managing risks. We will never have a zero percent chance of contracting any virus. We can try to mitigate it as best we can which we do thru vaccinations.

Decide how much risk you are willing to accept, and engage in activities you choose to engage in. Just don't make the choice for me, and I won't for you. Nor will I shame anyone for their personal decision.

 

As it relates to music: I determined, for myself, the measures various venues were taking to mitigate risks, were acceptable to me. While some of my friends decided it was better just to not go out. That's okay, and no one got into arguments about it.

 

Anyway, hope every is, and continues to be healthy. I'm going downstairs to play music now.

 

Peace.

[Joe Muscara]

Welp, my kid (18) got the J&J shot yesterday around 2:30 pm, and the body aches kicked in at 8:00 pm. Kept him up most of the night. Hoping he'll text us soon to say he's feeling better. This morning's news re: J&J shot and clots isn't worrisome. 6 out of 6.8M doses? I'd take that risk. Glad they are being exceedingly careful all the same.

 

Edit: he's not feeling better. One of the 55% of folks who gets pretty sick afterwards. Here's hoping it's resolved by tomorrow a.m.

If he had clots, the symptoms would be totally different. It sounds like he just has those flu-like symptoms some get to varying degrees. Since he's not really infected, it'll be over soon. Still, I hope he is better soon!

 

I'm afraid the J&J news will make more people who are reluctant to take a vaccine more reluctant, and generally give a bad rep to the J&J vaccine despite the extremely low probability of problems. Since some just want to take one shot instead of two, they may decide to take none.

[RABid]

I never understood how J&J got approved with only a 75 percent rating.

[EscapeRocks]

I was fine the first 12 hours after my second Pfizer shot. second shot was on a Thursday at 1:30PM. Next day around noon, I began feeling really tired. NO energy. Basic lethargy. Slight headache.

 

No other symptoms of anything. This lasted the rest of Friday, and most all day Saturday. I just sat around and rested. Woke up Sunday and felt as if nothing happened. Been fine since (2 weeks)

[bfields]

I never understood how J&J got approved with only a 75 percent rating.

 

My impression is that that's actually pretty good. Flu vaccines are typically more like 50%-ish effective? And still considered worthwhile. It also moderates symptoms, and they didn't see *any* hospitalizations or deaths among vaccinated people in trials.

 

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines managed 90%+ effectiveness (I think that means against symptomatic COVID?), but with 2 shots. A J&J regimen of 2 shots is also in testing, so that'll be interesting to see.

 

But from the point of view of reaching herd immunity it may actually be better to get a single-shot vaccine out twice as fast--I don't know, seems to be something people are arguing about.

[bfields]

A J&J regimen of 2 shots is also in testing, so that'll be interesting to see.

 

Oh, and that's exactly the test Joe Muscara's been volunteering for, I forgot: https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3092219/re-ot-i-just-got-the-vaccine-ask-me-anything#Post3092219

 

Just googling around, this looks like a pretty good discussion of how to compare the three: https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/what-doctors-wish-patients-knew-about-johnson-johnson-vaccine. (TLDR: the results aren't directly comparable, but all three are safe and effective, so you should probably just go with whatever's most convenient in your particular case. I would've appreciated the chance to get it done in one shot (then four weeks to reach tested effectiveness), vs. 2 shots (and 5 or 6 weeks from first shot to fully vaccinated, for Pfizer or Moderna, respectively). But it wasn't what was easiest to find locally at the time.)

[Mighty Motif Max]

I never understood how J&J got approved with only a 75 percent rating.

 

My impression is that that's actually pretty good. Flu vaccines are typically more like 50%-ish effective? And still considered worthwhile. It also moderates symptoms, and they didn't see *any* hospitalizations or deaths among vaccinated people in trials.

 

...

 

 

I looked up that data the other day - the efficacy of an average flu vaccine is between 40-60%, with some years being as low as 10%. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm

 

So ANY of the COVID ones are more effective already.

[Stokely]

There are two percentages that each vaccine has: the chance it protects you from getting covid, and the chance that you'll be really sick/hospitalized IF you do get it.

 

Most people focus on the first one, but the really key thing to me is that the second number is pretty close to 100% for all of the vaccines in the US right now.

 

My understanding is that over 90% is ridiculously good for the first one.

 

mRNA viruses have an amazing potential beyond covid. It's an incredible breakthrough that these work so well, and the result is that troll influencers on youtube and facebook have a large number of people convinced they are going to rot your stem cells or something. If people gave a shit about actually learning about the science from science sources (and not social media or cable "news") and not believing conspiracy garbage, they'd learn that the tech was already being worked on; it's not like these were rushed from scratch out the door.

 

Beyond worrying about "society"--of which I'm a part and I go as it does--my personal stake is a mom who believes absolute malarky and doesn't welcome other viewpoints that don't come from Facebook. So I'm both angry and sad that with her health conditions at age 77, and her willingness to go out and about, she's as likely as anyone to die from covid...which sucks balls knowing that she could already be vaccinated. She's a former nurse and is educated, she's chosen her stance based basically on her politics, which sucks. Her life and her death I guess but it doesn't make it easier to swallow if it happens.

[ProfD]

It's an incredible breakthrough that these work so well... the tech was already being worked on; it's not like these were rushed from scratch out the door.

Calling the vaccine Operation Warp Speed wasn't a good idea. Then, it required EUA (Emergency Use Authorization). That's a lot to unpack for some people especially if they're uninformed or misinformed. Unfortunately, it's also ripe source material for conspiracy theorists.

[o0Ampy0o]

...the genesis of the push back against participation ;o0; and other things related was the initial overreach and setting of expectations by the band ;o0;

Did this take place sometime during the show?.........I recall denial, mockery, and blatant refusal to perform sanely on the stage then insisting on cheers for a job well done. They were itching for an encore. Ultimately the band was booed off the stage. There are always a few anti-authority mongers in the audience disrupting attempts to maintain order. The numbers vary greatly depending on the band and genre. A relative few spoiled apples have been getting too much camera time. Many people do understand you must do what is best for the greater good. The Show must go on!

 

I hope Collins, Banks and Rutherford put that tour plan back together and make a good round before its over for The Genesis.

[Mighty Motif Max]

The U.S. usage of the J&J vaccine has been temporarily paused because of a small number of instances of a rare blood clot issue (cerebral venous sinus thromboses) in combination with low platelets, similar to the AstraZeneca vaccine. It's being investigated currently.

 

In other news, I found out which specific COVID vaccine there is a close-family reaction problem with - it's the Pfizer one. Somehow I'm not as surprised as in some ways it seemed like that was the one that had the most specific temperature requirements and stability conditions. I will be interested in future second generation COVID and/or MRNA vaccines to see what they can do about that. I wonder if given more time that temperature requirement would have been eliminated. Not necessarily saying the Pfizer one was "less finished", but it's just an interesting footnote that makes one think (and it's been bugging me for a while). Like I mentioned earlier, it's interesting to watch from a scientific standpoint.

 

I'm not thrilled about various countries starting to limit the AZ vaccine to older population groups. I'm 19 but that's the only one I feel okay about given the numerous other reaction issues in blood relatives. So I really hope that between the AZ and J&J vaccines someone can figure out what's causing the clotting issue and find the best way to treat it so that age requirement can be lowered again.