PC specs.... Building my new monster...

[dalpozlead]

Sorry if this was already discussed on other thread, but the idiosyncrasies here made me start a new one

 

Im trying to specify all needs to build a new PC (not 100% dedicated to my audio, but mainly used for audio/VST + internet browsing & downloads). Im aiming at a very strong machine

 

Ill use Omnisphere/EWQL Orchestra/Korg VSTs/TrueKeys Pianos/OP-X Pro mainly standalone or under Reaper DAW. Id first use it only with free ASIO driver and in the future buy an audio interface to record hardware synths.

 

My 1st wishlist:

 

Windows 10 / i7 core / 7200 rpm HD + SSD for samples / 24 GB RAM / Silent cooler / 8 or more USB inputs / dont know if I need a dedicated strong video card

 

Experts thoughts will be really appreciated guys.

 

Thanks!

 

[johnchop]

You're building an audio-oriented PC but not budgeting in an interface?

 

I'd re-think that.

 

Otherwise, you're way more than fine with those specs. Low-spec video card (<$100) or onboard video is usually sufficient unless you're driving a really hi-res monitor.

 

-John

[ITGITC]

Sorry if this was already discussed on other thread, but the idiosyncrasies here made me start a new one

 

Im trying to specify all needs to build a new PC (not 100% dedicated to my audio, but mainly used for audio/VST + internet browsing & downloads). Im aiming at a very strong machine

 

Ill use Omnisphere/EWQL Orchestra/Korg VSTs/TrueKeys Pianos/OP-X Pro mainly standalone or under Reaper DAW. Id first use it only with free ASIO driver and in the future buy an audio interface to record hardware synths.

 

My 1st wishlist:

 

Windows 10 / i7 core / 7200 rpm HD + SSD for samples / 24 GB RAM / Silent cooler / 8 or more USB inputs / dont know if I need a dedicated strong video card

 

Experts thoughts will be really appreciated guys.

 

Thanks!

 

Which motherboard? Consider one that incorporates M.2, NVMe SSD like the Samsung 950 Pro. Use this as your boot drive.

 

You'll need a CPU cooler. The Core i7 doesn't include one.

 

24GB RAM is overkill. 16GB is plenty. Unless you're setting up a RAM disk or using lots of VM or have lots of applications running simultaneously... 8GB is fine. 16GB may help to future-proof the machine.

 

I would test the internal on-chip graphics before sinking money into a dedicated graphics card - unless you are interested in 3-D gaming.

 

 

 

 

[marczellm]

Make sure that whatever USB Audio/MIDI devices you have, have drivers available for Windows 10.

[burningbusch]

Look at a hybrid HD vs. the standard 7200RPM.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FQH7MQ2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00

 

I just put three in my Mac Pro and it definitely improved speed. I need 10TB+ with samples and backup, so SSD isn't practical for me.

 

Busch.

[johnchop]

Look at a hybrid HD vs. the standard 7200RPM.

 

Whoa... the capacity:price is madness. Thoughts on using these as recording drives?

[hardware]

FWIW the M.2s are incredible for anything sample based.

I've been using a pair of 750s on the ASRock Z97.

Omnisphere Hollywood Strings and Kontakt love NVMe.

 

Just an example.

Omnisphere Dual Live mode instances load instantly now.

No progress bar.

I use 2 or 3 during a song at gigs.

 

ASRock uses 4x PCI-e. Others have not caught up yet.

Possibly a licensing/patent issue.

 

SATA III SSDs are fine for OS+Apps.

Large external storage for non streaming storage.

[Steve Force]

I agree with Tom (ITGITC) about 24GB RAM being overkill. 16GB will be more than sufficient.

 

Plan for at LEAST two video monitors --HDMI if at all possible. I built an I7-based system years (6??) ago and have the ability of attaching 4 video monitors. Also when I built this thing I put in a powerful video card (with built-in fan) that was a waste of money, IMO.

[Mills Dude]

Don't really see the need for a strong video card.

Are you looking to do a dual-monitor setup, and if so what resolution 2k or 4k?

 

If you're looking to drive 2 4k monitors you need something with a little oomph. I think you could get by with a Geforce GTX 750 or there abouts, currently running a bit over $100.

 

An important consideration is would you like to build a hackintosh and have the capability of dual booting to Mac OS X (Yosemite or Mavericks). If so, head on over to http://www.tonymacx86.com/ and check out some suggested configurations. It's a fairly straight forward process.

 

For the hackintosh route, you'll need to stay away from the new Skylake processors until Apple releases a mac based on that platform. That limits to socket 1150 i7, Core i7-4790K is a good choice at about $270. An i5 will run about $200. Also for the hackintosh, best bet is to stick with a Gigabyte brand motherboard, ASUS motherboards are also well supported.

 

24GB is overkill, 16BG is fine. The way DDR3 works, it's best to have them dimms paired up, so two 8GB dimms is what you want.

 

Factor in the case design and power supply in your costs and design. If your mounting your pc or want desktop vs tower you have to watch for getting a proper case that allows good airflow. Rackmount cases are also available, but they usually come at a premium (2 - 3 times a tower case).

 

SSDs are starting to get really cheap. Just ordered a 250GB for $63 from Amazon last night, one of their one-day deals. Also picked up a 250GB for $100 from Micro Center recently.

 

Going the hackintosh route is great for PC guys like me that want to be able to use Logic and Mainstage to dabble. I've been running one for 4 years as my audio workstation.

[Theo Verelst]

I use 2 I7 "monsters", an early (2st gen.) and a second generation "extreme" that is a true computing monster, which you don't need for running some tracks, some plugins and a bit of Midi I/O. The 6 core "extreme" runs at 4.6 Ghz for it's 12 threads, has 4 banks of memory (at 20 Giga Byte per second, measured throughput) connected to the 4 memory interfaces at 2100MHz XMP certified which make the chip big (over 2000 pins), but it eats just about anything, and it OCs properly (it's officially "unleashed" and the X79 Asus Mobo has deep overclocking facilities and the current and infrastructure to go with it). That's not a cheap PC, though I built it at the lowset price I could (using cheap but good German supplies imported to Holland).

 

The thing with fast PCs is they should have the capacity to get hot and be ok, so I put in the biggest Zahlman cooler with heatpipes and two big fans, and a very high efficiency supply (so it doesn't get hot). It paid off, running scientific apps, heavy graphics programs, video processing like Premiere etc. it remains at decent teperatures and is very fast, even after making the I7 a little over 60 degrees Celsius for a day on a row, no errors, never a blu screen, disks still under 40 degrees C, etc.

 

New I7s aren't that fast (yet ?) but usually are more efficient and have some types of opyimalisation put in here and there. Getting a good machine together doesn't need to be expensive, but takes some thinking about quality and DIY skills. The server I built from cheap enough but decent parts has been on 24/7 for about 5 years now, and still goes strong ! It runs Linux though..

 

T.V.

 

[nkfarwell]

Well, I'm not too keen on what is required of an audio processing machine but I am a computer buff so I'll give my two cents.

 

The i7 is an unnecessary purchase unless you are aware of exactly why you want it. The i5 processors by Intel use the same architecture (previously Haswell, now Skylake) and in many cases have identical (or negligibly inferior) IPC and GhZ, but both have many models with easy and safe overclocking so the stock GhZ is trivial. The primary bonus that the i7 provides over the i5 is Hyperthreading (HT), which is a cool and excellent technology that has yet to be adopted by most programs. I don't know if any of the programs you would be using take advantage of HT or plan to, but I would definitely investigate that before sinking an extra hundred or two dollars into a processor than you really need to.

 

As far as motherboards go, depending on the raw power you need or want, I would suggest maybe a Z97 board for overclocking capability. And if I am to tell you anything, I should tell you do NOT skimp on cooling. Get the expensive TI paste for a few extra dollars and it'll be much more reliable and cooler, as well as a good heat sink and fans and the like. Since you're doing audio processing, I don't have any real advice as far as video cards go, they won't do you any good. If it were me I would get a dedicated card, a cheap one, but not use the Intel iGPU technology. Not only is it not really excellent, there are more driver issues than I can count on my fingers and toes. Unless you're doing video editing as well, probably not too wise to sink a bunch of cash into a good GPU.

[Markay]

I would recommend you get an i7 notwithstanding the CURRENT lack of program use of hyperthreading. HT will become ubiquitous down the road, why close the door on being able to use it for the sake of a $100 or so now?

 

I always buy with an eye to the future, a fully functional life of at least 7 years.

 

For this reason I spec machines with quality components. You did not mention the option of a Hackintosh but when you look at what motherboards and other components are required to get an optimised Hack you realise that Apple generally use components of average or better quality. Also it is very rare for Apple machines to generate hum or EMF noise, which is much more common with PC's and why audio interfaces are required far more often on PC's. Graphics cards can often be the culprit here so a high end graphics card could be counter productive for music use.

 

The storage choice should be between Hybrid HDD or SSD. Looking down the road sample file sizes for high end VST's continue to increase but some are now moving to FLAC so sound quality is maintained and sample file size is significantly reduced. I specced a new tower machine 3 years ago with hybrid drive - it boots so quickly from the hybrid drive that I do not expect to get any improvement in boot speed when I upgrade it from Win 7 64 bit to Win 10.

 

I would recommend at a minimum a Hybrid system drive and either an SSD for streaming samples installed now or as a planned upgrade down the road. Currently the Samsung Pro (not Evo) range is an excellent SSD choice.

 

As for cooling the main improvements provided by Skylake over Haswell is lower power consumption and less heat (to make them more suitable for tablet use). A well ventilated tower case may mean you do not need to go over the top with cooling with a Skylake processor.

 

Finally make sure whatever specs you choose you get a quality power supply - in my experience with 100's of PC's over 25 years this component has the highest failure rate. Easy to replace but sometimes when they blow they have fried the MB and installed RAM.

[seanl]

I built twins.....two 3.4 i7's. Both have 32 GB 1600 DDR3. One runs LINUX Mint 17.2 the other one Windows 7 64 Pro. The Windows PC has 500 GB SSD, the LINUX one has a 500 GB HDD that spins at 10K. Both are in identical 4U metal server cases. I like ASUS Mobo's, I build PC's for friends and never had any problem with ASUS. I have a decent fan on the Windows CPU, you'll probably cringe at this but right now the top of the server case is off of the Windows box.... the SSD is just kinda sitting off to one side resting on a piece of cardboard in the bottom of the case while I tidy up the wiring....been that way for months. I'm not even running chassis fans. No heat issues.

 

Interestingly enough the LINUX box always runs 7- 10 degrees cooler when everything is buttoned up with identical chassis fans...

 

 

I run a Focusrite Sapphire Pro Firewire interface.

[zephonic]

Sorry if this was already discussed on other thread, but the idiosyncrasies here made me start a new one

 

Im trying to specify all needs to build a new PC (not 100% dedicated to my audio, but mainly used for audio/VST + internet browsing & downloads). Im aiming at a very strong machine

 

Ill use Omnisphere/EWQL Orchestra/Korg VSTs/TrueKeys Pianos/OP-X Pro mainly standalone or under Reaper DAW. Id first use it only with free ASIO driver and in the future buy an audio interface to record hardware synths.

 

My 1st wishlist:

 

Windows 10 / i7 core / 7200 rpm HD + SSD for samples / 24 GB RAM / Silent cooler / 8 or more USB inputs / dont know if I need a dedicated strong video card

 

Experts thoughts will be really appreciated guys.

 

Thanks!

 

Which motherboard? Consider one that incorporates M.2, NVMe SSD like the Samsung 950 Pro. Use this as your boot drive.

 

You'll need a CPU cooler. The Core i7 doesn't include one.

 

24GB RAM is overkill. 16GB is plenty. Unless you're setting up a RAM disk or using lots of VM or have lots of applications running simultaneously... 8GB is fine. 16GB may help to future-proof the machine.

 

I would test the internal on-chip graphics before sinking money into a dedicated graphics card - unless you are interested in 3-D gaming.

 

 

I don't know, Tom. I have 12GB in my MacPro, and between Cubase, Kontakt and Omnisphere, that tends to fill up pretty quick these days. In fact, I am actually planning to get 24GB myself soon. I'd get 48 if it wasn't so expensive.

It sounds crazy, I know, but at the rate we're going I'm thinking even 24 may be inadequate two years from now. When I got 12GB in 2011, I never dreamt I'd ever get close to maxing it out, but here I am, just four years later.

 

But I agree with everything else you said. Haswell/Broadwell CPU's have very capable on-board GPU's, and dedicated GPU's seem redundant for an audio computer.

 

 

@OP: I think not getting a dedicated audio interface for your machine is unwise. With the system you described, it would be your #1 bottleneck.

[MorayM]

Get an external interface.

 

Regarding CPU cooling, I'd think carefully about getting a true silent (passive) cooler. You'll need to think very carefully about the airflow in your case to make sure the heat coming off it will get out of the case and not into other components. Have a look at some of Noctua, they have some excellent low noise CPU coolers.

 

On the subject of cases, that will also make a huge difference to airflow and noise. I used a Fractal Design one from a few years ago which works very well, and Nanoxia make some good ones too.

[Justin Havu]

Corsair makes some excellent cases, some even have foam dampening material to help with noise. About the cooling, unless you plan on overclocking, which I strongly advise against, as it will shorten the life of your CPU and eventually cause BSOD's, the stock Intel heatsinks/fans are pretty quiet, unless you're really pushing your system. As far as drives go, definitely get two or more--an SSD for your boot drive (OS and programs) and a larger capacity drive (or drives) for storing sample libraries, and a place to save your session files. You could even go with a RAID configuration and use multiple drives as one if you need the storage. I myself still use a mechanical drive for my libraries because due to my lack of income right now (trying to get SSI and disability benefits) I can't afford to go the SSD route, but it runs fine for me. It's just a WD 1TB, 7200RPM drive, and again, it runs fine for me.

 

Also agree on an external interface. I've not tried USB3.0 for audio, but I advise against USB2.0, and get a FireWire interface. As far as latency goes, I've had better luck with my FireWire rig than anything else I've used in the past. FireWire PCIe cards for the computer aren't terribly expensive either.

[ITGITC]

I don't know, Tom. I have 12GB in my MacPro, and between Cubase, Kontakt and Omnisphere, that tends to fill up pretty quick these days. In fact, I am actually planning to get 24GB myself soon. I'd get 48 if it wasn't so expensive.

 

From their websites:

 

Cubase requires 4-8 GB RAM

 

Kontakt recommends 4-6 GB RAM

 

Omnisphere suggests 4-8+ GB RAM

 

I'm certain a good case can be made for more RAM, particularly if you're loading lots of samples. It'll cost a little more money, require a little more power, and generate a little more heat.

 

However, I haven't seen the results for testing various amounts of RAM in a machine built primarily for music applications. Until I do, I'm sticking with 8 GB as the minimum and 16 GB as the sweet spot. As always, YMMV and I'd rather drink another beer and discuss the virtues of the Nord Goddess than to debate this without seeing the results of testing.

 

 

 

[Markay]

Firewire is dead. Apple discontinued support for FW in El Capitan. Thunderbolt or USB 3 is the future. Trouble is interface manufacturers have been slow on the uptake.

[RABid]

I put 12 GB is the DAW I had built 4 years ago. 16 GB in my MacBookPro and my latest Windows Notebook for music has 32 GB. If you are doing much with samplers, the more the better. I would not put anything less than 16 in a new system.

 

One thing to note, it is easy to add memory later. Just plan it out and leave empty slots. DON'T fill every slot with smaller memory chips if you want to expand in the future. One thing you may not be able to upgrade later is the processor. Sometimes the heat sticks to the CPU and you don't have access to the lever that releases the CPU from the motherboard. Trying to prize off a heat sink may damage the mother board. Pay $100 more now for a better CPU. Upgrade memory later if you find it necessary.

[Al Coda]

Plan for at LEAST two video monitors --HDMI if at all possible. I built an I7-based system years (6??) ago and have the ability of attaching 4 video monitors. Also when I built this thing I put in a powerful video card (with built-in fan) that was a waste of money, IMO.

 

For up to 4 screens, NVIDA Quadro NVS 450 / PCIe X16 / 512MB GDDR3 / 35W / passive cooling is good enough for DAW usage.

Display Port Links x4 / DVI Links x4.

 

NVIDIA NVS

 

A.C.

[Theo Verelst]

There's a relation between the amount of cooling you need for an amount of computations to be done. So if you want a machine that can fiercely plow through memory and do lots of additions, SSE computations (FFTs?) and stay relatively cool, having a new technology (bit smaller transistors) helps a bit, but using a huge cooler helps better.

 

Using a on-I7 video interface contributes to the heat of the chip, except that driving a PCIExpress bus does, too. There is parallel processing in audio that can run on graphics cards.

 

For audio, most applications won't make the CPU all too hot, so it's often about operating system limitations and a lot of unnecessary hassle related to memory management and buffering and "computations" that a re connected to the CISC nature of the the Intels (as opposed to the fast turnaround computations without deep pipelining on for instance ARM (pad) processors.

 

The bandwidth of the disc is a bit of a story: if you compute how many tracks you can get on and off a 100MByte/S drive (44,100*2bytes bytes per mono CD track equals a little under 100 *kilo* bytes per second) it gets you to 1,133 teacks !! So it's a lot of inefficient, unscientific stuff all over the place in audio workstation land, it seems.

 

Memories are in banks (usually only two, with some more pins on teh I7 you can get 3 banks in some cases, and the Xtreme version has 4 memory banks), and can be put in parallel on banks, which has it's own pre's and cons, but usually the slowest memory will win. Also, there are a lot of specifications going together with the various access and transfer speeds of PC Rams, difficult subject, but it pays to make the first number like, say 11-11-11-20-.. or so in the spec as low a possible. Also, the Is do their own memory clocking, with a separate clock frequency, which can lead to all kinds of difficult to understand memory timing differences. Add to that the paging that is done by the kernel, and the still existing different row and column timing for memory access and all kinds of burst memory messaging options, and it is almost impossible for a layman to predict PC speed differences.

 

Remember: SSDs can and at times do fail. Some newer kinds are better than others (known cheap ones).

 

PCIExpress based flash memories are relative big and fast, they will be limited by all over the "I" line existing speed limit over the "point to Point" connection: about 4 Giga Byte per second, + plus about 1 more when you have the OC option for it.

 

About over clocking: my experience is: don't do it unless the chips say they can, and you know what you're doing. My experience is the I7s will run run the exact clock speed AND memory speed they're designed for, and you can run them all day, out heavy graphics and CPU computations at them, make them hot (I prefer no more than about 65 degrees Celcius, because that's roughly the point in the lifetime curve where the electrolytic capacitors start to fade) have swapping kick in, and .. no problems. Except for a unleashed (and "unlocked") chip, I could always fault an OC situation, even a mild one, so be ware you can get a lots of inexplicable blu screens, program (or worse: server) crashes if yo think OC-ing is ok. The only one that is allowed to be OCed (but was among the (cheapest of) the more expensive options, is the one I can put at 4.5 GHz and at night switch of flowlessly after a whole day of rough computations, on either windows or linux, never a prob.

 

T

 

[RABid]

...

 

Remember: SSDs can and at times do fail. Some newer kinds are better than others (known cheap ones).

 

...

 

I've had two go out this year and replaced them with regular drives. SSD's really speed up the boot time on the computer, but I would not recommend them unless the user is diligent about mirroring it with a second drive.

[ITGITC]

...

 

Remember: SSDs can and at times do fail. Some newer kinds are better than others (known cheap ones).

 

...

 

I've had two go out this year and replaced them with regular drives. SSD's really speed up the boot time on the computer, but I would not recommend them unless the user is diligent about mirroring it with a second drive.

 

Tell me about this, Robert.

 

My understanding is that when a SSD fails, you can read the data, but not write to the drive. Has this been your experience?

 

And thanks for bringing up the topic of a backup plan. We shouldn't assume that any thought has gone into this, and it should.

 

Tom

 

[Justin Havu]

Firewire is dead. Apple discontinued support for FW in El Capitan. Thunderbolt or USB 3 is the future. Trouble is interface manufacturers have been slow on the uptake.

 

YMMV, though, but PC's don't have Thunderbolt, just USB3. Even still, with all the crashes I've experienced using a USB2 interface, I'm just not ready to trust USB3. I've had better experience using a 1394 (FireWire) interface, plus I like the ability to daisy-chain multiple interfaces.

[RABid]

...

 

Remember: SSDs can and at times do fail. Some newer kinds are better than others (known cheap ones).

 

...

 

I've had two go out this year and replaced them with regular drives. SSD's really speed up the boot time on the computer, but I would not recommend them unless the user is diligent about mirroring it with a second drive.

 

Tell me about this, Robert.

 

My understanding is that when a SSD fails, you can read the data, but not write to the drive. Has this been your experience?

 

And thanks for bringing up the topic of a backup plan. We shouldn't assume that any thought has gone into this, and it should.

 

Tom

 

Not in my case. I had one fail on my main DAW and one on my primary PC at work. In both cases I was only able to do partial data recovery. I could see the full directories, but copying files would generate lots of errors. Disc copying and data recovery programs were no help. My DAW was not as big of an issue because most of my work was not on the boot drive. I went back to the original boot drive that I was using before installing the SSD and applied updates to Windows and my music software. At work I lost a good chunk of documents and email. maybe 70 percent of files were recoverable but the My Documents folder was on a bad section. My biggest hit was email history. We converted to an Exchange server a year earlier so that was on the server. Anything before that was lost.

 

One tip, Many SSD drives come with a program that will copy your entire drive to the SSD, even if it is a boot drive. That program also works in reverse, you can use it to backup your entire SSD to a platter drive. I suggest doing it periodically.

[ITGITC]

 

Sorry to hear the RABid.

 

Sometimes computers just suck.

 

But if they went away, there would be some other addiction ready to move in and take their place.

 

 

[RABid]

What I tell my tech is... "When we have to fix a computer problem for someone else it is job security. When we have to fix a computer problem for ourselves, it is crap."

[RABid]

Oh, and this is "unofficially" take your DAW to work today. Mine is on the other end of my desk with a brand new WD Enterprise Class 3.0TB boot drive and a clean install of Windows 10. Gonna start using a touch screen for Sonar and Reason. I hear those work well with a touch screen. Hoping Live will also do well.

[Joe Muscara]

Firewire is dead. Apple discontinued support for FW in El Capitan. Thunderbolt or USB 3 is the future. Trouble is interface manufacturers have been slow on the uptake.

The part in bold is overstated, IMNSHO. It sounds like "Firewire doesn't work in El Capitan" which is not true. Existing stuff works fine, just don't expect any new drivers nor bug fixes. It would be dumb of Apple to remove Firewire support in 10.11 while still supporting Macs that have Firewire with that OS. Possible, but dumb.

[Sundown]

You can roll your own (I've done it before), but you can also rely on six syllables:

 

PC Audio Labs

 

Great equipment, great service, works every time...