Gig report - first "all iOS" (long!)

[Reezekeys]

This is pretty interesting to read because while it took me a minute to grok AUM, it's fairly clear to me now. There's always a tradeoff when you pack a lot of features into an app â it's harder to organize things clearly and make them intuitive, and the solutions often involve compromises in some areas. IMO it boils down to we users needing to meet the dev somewhere in the middle, iow put in the time and get some experience using an app and trying out its features. Software design is basically looking into the mind of the programmer. I was definitely tapping around AUM a lot when I first started with it, and had to experiment with some different setups before I found what seems to work for me. I'm fine with this, if that's the price of having the features I need. Not to mention that the one Q I emailed the dev was answered the same day!

[cphollis]

It's strange how UIs work. Just watching the AUM demos, it looked like channel strips on a mixer to me, something I was already familiar with. There are other supposedly intuitive interfaces in the iOS world that puzzle the heck out of me, so I guess it all balances out.

 

My current stumbling block is stage rigging, as connecting stuff is way too fiddly. I've been looking for a "performance dock" for the new smaller iPad Pro that exposes audio, USB/midi, power, etc. yet fits snug, supports the weight, mounts to something, etc. and there seem to be some clip-on candidates that might work.

 

Failing that, I'd simply extend the USB-C to some sort of enclosed stage box where I could rig the various hub connections more securely.

[AnotherScott]

... I've started AUM a few times to play with it, and always end up quickly frustrated ...

Same here on AUM. I had to go back and watch tutorials and then re-explain it to myself in audio/MIDI terms I understood

 

Good point about terminology.

 

The first thing you do on AUM is hit the Plus symbol, to bring up a pop-up, with 3 options: Audio, MIDI, or Import. Well, there are apps that are stricly audio, and apps that are strictly MIDI, and then there are apps of the type we are talking about, which take MIDI in and send Audio out. So I had to think, what's the right option here? (And the pop-up only gives you about 3 seconds to decide, then it disappears... Why?) Okay, it didn't take me too long to figure out I wanted MIDI. But now we move to the next step, hit the new Plus symbol, anther pop-up, and now I have to decide between "Audio Unit MIDI Processor" and "Audio Unit Extension." Quick, which of those two describes B-3X? Okay, yeah, after a few seconds I got it (plus when you pick one, it pops out the appropriate list to choose from, so you'll quickly see if you picked the wrong one)... this time the choice that says MIDI is no longer the correct option. ;-) But my point is that the comparable Camelot choice (the thing you click to load in B-3X or whatever)--which admitedly is not as easy to find in the first place--is called an "Instrument" and to further clarify, in smaller print, the button says "Hardware snd Software instruments." That kind of use of terminology/description helps. I may not know instantly whether B-3X is an audio app or a MIDI app, or whether it is an Audio Unit MIDI Processor or an Audio Unit Extension... but it was immediately obvious to me that it was a Software Instrument. Clear terminology aids ease of use, especially when you may not use these things for a while, and have to "re-learn" when you come back to it some months later.

 

To a different point, one thing I haven't really seem mentioned in discussions of iPad-as-sound-module is how many apps do not permit instant patch changes. If you're coming from a hardware-only rig, you expect every patch change to be instantaneous. But calling up a different preset in an app often involves loading time. In hardware, we don't even question load time... in fact, we're often looking specifically for old sounds to not even cut out once we switch to the new sound, much less cut out while we wait for the new sound! Nicely, my Camelot Pro experiment showed that that kind of "seamless sound switching" did work fine when switching from one loaded sound (app) to another... say, switching between Ravenscroft and a synth. But if you send a Program Change to the synth, a previously held synth sound could be replaced by "a moment of silence." Something to keep in mind.

[Stokely]

After last night, I think I'm going the opposite direction. Once I get my pc4 I might just use the organ from it and leave the ipad out of my rig, even though B-3X sounds better.

 

I had a few different glitches last night, including B-3X inexplicably resetting the midi input (this has never happened before). the audio also wasn't working even when playing the ipad keyboard, it was set to output to the MODX, the volume was up, it just didn't work until I turned various things on and off during the first set, connected and re-connected everything.

 

I also had the ipad say "do you want to upgrade in order to use the camera connection kit" or some bullshit. My ipad has no internet and there was no wifi to connect to, so that sounded pretty ominous. I've never seen that message before. I ended up trying my backup CCK just in case (both are Apple) but while that message didn't appear again, things didn't immediate start working either.

 

The trend is not good, the glitches seem to be increasing. I'm pretty over it. I'm the only one who *really* cares that the organ is better, and my stress levels are more important to me than one instrument's sound.

 

It was a night for demons in general, I had an audio cable stop working after being connected...and this was a gig where the club has a PA and soundguy, and the number of monitor mixes were limited...it sucked, basically. I want simple--turn the keyboard on, play. Ditching the ipad might mean also selling the MODX, but it will make a good backup keyboard to the PC4 even without the ipad.

[brenner13]

Me too. Even though B-3X and VB3m have a superior sound, this dern VR09 is just so performance oriented and easy to use in a live setting. Even though Colossus has more character and my custom tweaks on Ravenscroft have dialed in my preferable piano sounds, Numa Compact 2X does just what is needed at the gigs, especially with the expanded Japanese Grand. Both of these boards cover EP"s adequately even though at home I prefer the tones obtained from Electric Vintage and VTines for Rhodes and Neo Soul Keys Studio 2 for Wurly. The hardware options for Hornz, Strings, Synth Leads/Pads, etc. are just more convenient and simple for me to use than fidgeting with the iPad interface in the heat of the moment.

 

Now this is all relative to a weekend warrior, hack of a keyboarder, covering classic rock, funk, and soul of the 50"s, 60"s, 70"s, 80"s & 90"s in the local bar scene. Heck, the two boards mentioned above have even relegated my beloved MODX7 back to the studio because they simply make the job easier. MODX is quite easy to use live once the Live Set has all of the right sounds in it, but I"ve been very frustrated trying to program some of the finer parts of the sounds and effects. Just need some more learnin" that I have little time for. Maybe this winter.

 

As eluded to at top, when in the studio, recording, or just jamming out, the iPad often gets worked into the mix.

[Stokely]

I may keep using it, I just don't want to depend on it. the MODX organs are such that I feel it's needed...the pc4 organs will be better. For a similar reason (glitches) I stopped using my pc361 live, and relegated it to home controller work, so I'm not just picking on the ipad . I don't want to gig being fearful that things won't work, just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Reezekeys]

Both you guys have highlighted how ease of use and reliability sometime trump satisfaction with sound quality. I hear where you're coming from. In my case I have no keyboard with built-in sounds so I'm bringing my laptop or iPad or else I play "air piano", lol. I've been considering picking up a Numa Compact when I have a little more disposable income â just to have a board I can throw on a stand, turn on, and start playing a piano â even though I already know my Native Instruments piano is superior. We all know there are gigs where personal satisfaction can take a back seat to convenience, but I often get to play creative music with fantastic players and don't want to compromise anything. Having a rig I can do gigs that fall into the former category was my thought in seeing how an iPad setup could work for me. In my limited experience I didn't have any technical issues, but I don't know if my setup would be considered stressing the capabilities of the tablet. The other thing I noticed is that even with just the iPad and my 10 lb controller, I'm still dealing with a forest of wiring. I got a lightning extension cable so my CCK doesn't hang off the iPad â for now I looped the cable around one of my stand's arms and it was dangling below the keyboard. The USB cable coming off it is also wrapped around the arm and attached to the board. Then there's the 1/8" audio cable coming off the iPad. It all looks like hell and is a PITA to deal with. I would like to see someone make a controller keyboard that has a "slot" on top that you could fit your tablet onto, one with a built-in USB-C or lightning connector. Then, build the functionality of the CCK and associated cabling into the keyboard! You'd still be connecting power and audio to the board (or maybe it can use batteries?) but it would be faster to set up and look a whole lot better. And, connecting power and audio cables to a keyboard is what hardware folks have to do anyway.

[AnotherScott]

I had a few different glitches last night, including B-3X inexplicably resetting the midi input (this has never happened before). the audio also wasn't working even when playing the ipad keyboard, it was set to output to the MODX, the volume was up, it just didn't work until I turned various things on and off during the first set, connected and re-connected everything.

I wonder if it was a flakey USB connection between the iPad and the MODX (e.g. bad USB cable, cable being knocked or not all the way in... or even an issue with the USB port on the MODX itself), just because it looks like all the issues you mentioned could possibly be related to the communication between the two devices (as opposed to within the iPad itself). Which doesn't negate the fact that introducing the iPad to what would otherwise be a hardware-only environment does affect the reliability of the setup (even while supplying some backup/redundancy of its own). You are introducing more points of potential failure, regardless of whether an issue is with a particular app or the iPad/iOS in general, or the physical connection to the other gear. But I'm thinking that, as a fail-safe, it could be useful to also travel with and be able to try the 5-pin MIDI connection. You already have a spare CCK, so that much is covered. If you also had a USB-to-5-pin interface (e.g. Roland UM-One) and a cable to go from the iPad's headphone out to whatever analog audio input (MODX aux in, a mixer/amp input, whatever), you'd have yet another way to try to fix an issue that could come up, or another way to help troubleshoot where the issue might be, or possibly another way you might get going again more quickly, depending on what is causing the problem. (Simpler if your iPad still has a headphone jack!)

 

Just to get the full picture, though, I'm curious...Were you running B-3X by itself, or in conjunction with any other MIDI/audio app? Was the iPad connected to power or were you strictly running off battery (and if the latter, how close to full charge were you when having these issues)? When you turned various things on and off, I assume that included the MODX? As an aside which could possibly be related, I have suspected that the MODX (and its MOX/MOXF predecessor) is a little more senstive to flakey power than some other keyboards. Luckily, it's been a very rare occurrence, but I have used these Yamahas a couple of times as part of keyboard pairs, where they acted up in some way while the other board was okay, never to be repeated for years, and at least one of those times was an outdoor gig where power to the whole event was being supplied by a generator, a scenario which is a bit notorious for occasionally giving music gear fits.

 

Even though B-3X and VB3m have a superior sound, this dern VR09 is just so performance oriented and easy to use in a live setting...The hardware options for Hornz, Strings, Synth Leads/Pads, etc. are just more convenient and simple for me to use than fidgeting with the iPad interface in the heat of the moment.

I agree that iPad-fidgeting needs to be avoided. Ideally, while an iPad may give you some visual feedback, you should not have to manipulate it during a gig (expect maybe for example to call up the next song... i.e. send out all the patch changes and/or bring up your chart). If your keyboard (itself or perhaps in conjunction with some well-placed NanoKontrol or whatever) isn't providing the necessary sliders/buttons/whatever to handle most of the iPad interaction, then yeah, you're ending up with a more complicated less convenient setup, making it that much harder to justify. So for example, I wouldn't bother using B3X/VB3m on a VR09 unless I was also running something like the Keystage translator option that turned the Roland's sysex drawbars into the CCs that can control the drawbar settings for those apps. I think good operability is at least as important as the incremental improvement in sound. If (as has been talked about here before) so much sonic improvement is more for our benefit than the audience's, then pairing it with something that is operationally to our detriment (such that the total experience for the player is not improved) would be counter-productive. You probably can create something more satisfying by using the apps, but only if you commit to some more initial time to get it working the way you really want. Otherwise, I'd agree that sticking with internal sounds is best. Which is probably why I've mostly stuck with internal sounds. ;-)

[Stokely]

In my case, I only run B-3X--I have experimented with Midiflow as a routing and transforming go-between (allowing either of my keyboards to talk to the ipad, or each other) but I am unwilling to take on more complexity with the issues I'm having.

 

I don't want to bring an interface, frankly--the main reason I'm willing to give the ipad a go is the easy connection and lack of more bits. The ipad sits on the modx7 and connects with one cable (though one of my ccks also has a port for charging). If I have to bring an extra interface, and find a spot for it, the convenience is starting to ebb.

 

I tried both of my CCKs, one with power and one without, it didn't seem to correct the issues. One of the issues I solved by changing the midi input to ALL (from whatever it had changed to)....the midi channels were still ok on the B-3X, they were as I had set them. I still don't know what caused audio to not be sent out of the ipad for some minutes--the outputs were both set to MODX, and volumes were up everywhere I know to set them. I turned things off and on, re-connected a few times, and eventually it just worked (by the time we were actually into the first set....). I have a backup usb cable to go with the backup CCK but didn't try it (it was in my car), perhaps next time I'll give that a go.

 

As far as power, this is the 3rd or 4th gig at different spots where I've had minor issues like this that resolved, the other night being the most serious and hardest to get working...I don't think it's power-related but who knows. The ominous message about "would you like to upgrade to use the camera connection kit" was a bit of a shot across the bow IMO...it's a reminder that I'm using a device not intended for music at my own risk, and I'm at the mercy of companies that don't give a shit about music users.

 

Part of it is the nature of my gigs...we have been playing a long time but we are hardly some high-end cover band playing big festivals or a tribute band making big bucks. It's simply not worth it to struggle with a rig playing the spots we do. Setting up in 5-10 minutes and being ready to play is what I want. Hell I'm already up against it trying to remember song lyrics, I don't need more challenges!

[AnotherScott]

I don't want to bring an interface, frankly--the main reason I'm willing to give the ipad a go is the easy connection and lack of more bits. The ipad sits on the modx7 and connects with one cable (though one of my ccks also has a port for charging). If I have to bring an extra interface, and find a spot for it, the convenience is starting to ebb.

I get that. But I could still see packing along the 5-pin as a fallback/troubleshooting device, just in case.

 

a reminder that I'm using a device not intended for music at my own risk

Uh huh. Same with laptops, for that matter. For music, nothing is likely to be as rock solid as something that is made for that purpose. I don't think that's just psychological.

[Stokely]

I don't want to bring an interface, frankly--the main reason I'm willing to give the ipad a go is the easy connection and lack of more bits. The ipad sits on the modx7 and connects with one cable (though one of my ccks also has a port for charging). If I have to bring an extra interface, and find a spot for it, the convenience is starting to ebb.

I get that. But I could still see packing along the 5-pin as a fallback/troubleshooting device, just in case.

 

a reminder that I'm using a device not intended for music at my own risk

Uh huh. Same with laptops, for that matter. For music, nothing is likely to be as rock solid as something that is made for that purpose. I don't think that's just psychological.

 

I'm all about fallback options, and for me, it's just using the modx organs. To be fair, I could probably spend more time with them and get used to them...I did one gig with them after selling my Electro and it was a bit painful....but I'm probably the only one in either band or audience who noticed! There is also the organimation library but I wish I knew how much of an upgrade it is before I put more money into this. Honestly if I'd known I was going to be getting the pc4 I would have kept the Electro, it would be a great complement. (I only sold it because I had a good deal lined up on a stage compact, then covid hit....)

[brenner13]

MIDI capabilities of the VR09 are so terrible, I have totally given up trying to utilize the onboard dins. When Roland cut me off from buying another new pitch paddle a few years ago, I fervently set out to replace all Roland in my collection, and went the iOS route for Hammond emulation. Numa Compact 2, then an upgrade to 2X to control Galileo, then an upgrade to B-3X did the trick for a while. Super handy that Studiologic handles both MIDI and Audio with just one USB cable and the CCK.

 

MODX7 landed to cover all of the other stuff the VR09 did. I went with the Oganimation expansion for MODX to cover more organs, and while it gives nearly all the needed controls for rotary, C/V, perc, and drawbars, I found it a real pain having only four sliders requiring a button-press to change the higher drawbars, and even then we only have 8. Several presets make good use of the Superknob to pull out higher drawbars as you twist it to the right, but that always felt like cheating and there was no easy way to go from all 8"s to that inverted V-shape on the bars. The sound collection was made before the last firmware upgrade, so uses the stock Rotary effect. I like Rotary 2 so much better, but have not figured out how to make the mod wheel control the speed switch yet. Ugh! I never have been quick to wrap my head around Yamaha programming.

 

Ever since somebody here turned me on to Syntaur for a new Roland pitch paddle assembly, and enough time had passed to cool down my hot head, the VR09 has been rescued out of the recycle bin and has once again become my organ of choice for gigging. The dumb thing is just a perfect fit for the music I"ve been doing during the last decade.

[Reezekeys]

Numa Compact 2, then an upgrade to 2X to control Galileo, then an upgrade to B-3X did the trick for a while.

The Compact 2 has an organ, doesn't it? Did you consider Galileo's sim better?

[stoken6]

Compact 2 has "rompler" (sampled" organs and no drawbars. A proper organ model and drawbars came with the 2X. I suspect Galileo's model is better than the one in the 2X.

 

Regards, Mike

[HSS]

Compact 2 has "rompler" (sampled" organs and no drawbars. A proper organ model and drawbars came with the 2X. I suspect Galileo's model is better than the one in the 2X.

 

Regards, Mike

I have a NC2x and its basic B3 emulation (i.e. drawbars, tone, C/V, percussion) is decent except for the Leslie sim and overdrive which are pretty bad.

 

I've not used Galileo but suspect its Leslie sim and overdrive is better than the NC2x's. I have IOS VB3m which has a far better Leslie sim and overdrive. It works great with the NC2x and my Ipad Pro or Iphone 6s.

 

FWIW I've been waiting for nearly two years for Studiologic to improve the NC2x's internal Leslie sim and overdrive with an update and it hasn't happened, so I suspect it is what it is. Perhaps Studiologic doesn't want the NC2x to start cannibalizing its more expensive Numa organ if they improve the NC2x's Leslie sim and overdrive.

[Reezekeys]

Compact 2 has "rompler" (sampled" organs and no drawbars. A proper organ model and drawbars came with the 2X. I suspect Galileo's model is better than the one in the 2X.

I'm no organ player but Galileo is not bowling me over, so maybe that speaks to how bad the 2X is? Just curious. I'm using what I think of as a stock Jimmy Smith sound â the first 3 or 4 drawbars pulled out with percussion on the 3rd harmonic. The included presets aren't doing too much for me either. It could definitely be pilot error though, I won't rule that out.

[brenner13]

NC2 is static organ samplesâ¦bleck! Agree with HHS. NC2X"s rotary is horrible. No overdrive, it is full-on distortion/fuzz. I dusted off the RT-20 pedal and am happy with the 2X" tone for rehearsal and it would work fine as back up in a pinch at a gig.

 

I like Galileo for weird organ effectsâ¦not so much for its Hammond emulation. However after much tweaking, the rotary is not bad.

B-3X is 'the' sound. Fantastic rotary. But it takes a lot of tweaking and menu diving to get 'my' sound. Nearly a year laterâ¦still working on it.

VB3m sounds great just turning it on and go. Rather crunchy for some tastes for sure, but it is adjustable.

[Reezekeys]

My idea of getting a NC2 or 2X is more about having 88 easily portable keys. Onboard sounds' quality isn't as big an issue, though a playable piano and ep would be nice. I take it those are the same in the 2 and 2X? Is the user sampling only on the 2X? I guess I'm derailing my own thread here, sorry!

[AnotherScott]

My idea of getting a NC2 or 2X is more about having 88 easily portable keys. Onboard sounds' quality isn't as big an issue, though a playable piano and ep would be nice. I take it those are the same in the 2 and 2X? Is the user sampling only on the 2X?

I'm pretty sure pianos and EPs are the same on the NC2 and NC2X. But as a controller, the NC2X is much better because of the 9 sliders, which can function not just as drawbar controllers, but to send any CCs you might want. To me, its biggest drawback as a controller is patch selection. There's no way to make use of the buttons, you have to scroll through your patches with the wheel. So as an iOS controller, it's probably best to do the patch selection right from your iOS device. But there's no convenient spot to place an iPad. So you also have to give some thought to the peripheral gear... If you're also a singer, maybe you can attach an iPad holder to the mic stand. Or you can select a keyboard stand that allows for an iPad attachment. Or if your needs can be met by a mere iPhone (or iPod Touch), that you could squeeze onto the Numa.

 

Is the user sampling only on the 2X?

No user sampling on either. There had been some reports that the 2X would support that, but it's been years and it hasn't happened, so I wouldn't count on that changing.

[brenner13]

I still have both. Gig with the 2X and keep the 2 at home. If you can swing the extra clams for the X, it"s well worth it for organ drawbars and the expanded synth engine that the drawbars provide basic control of Envelope and Filter parameters.

 

Otherwise the pianos and such are the same, and the 2 will accept the extra libraries from Studiologic"s website. Oddly though, I do find the Rhodes brighter with more bark in the 2, but a slight tweak of the filter fader compensates somewhat in the 2X.

 

Gotta send a word of caution on the actionâ¦'spongy ' sums it up fairly well. Also, playing repetitive arpeggios very fast and very soft may cause some notes to trigger noticeably louder than others. My NC2 has the A above middle C annoyingly sensitive. My 2X has very slight jumps on the F#"s above AND below middle C, but nowhere as noticeable as the A on the 2. I gigged the NC2 hard for over a year before noticing it. I"m a heavy handed player with my rock group. Not sure if it just wore out from my exuberance, but now I"m hypersensitive to it. The 2X came that way new, but it is subtle enough that I only notice it when intentionally making it happen with super soft, repetitive arpeggios.

 

I still like playing both of these boards, but some folks absolutely hate that action. Best to try before ya buy, or at least get a good return policy.

[Reezekeys]

No user sampling on either. There had been some reports that the 2X would support that, but it's been years and it hasn't happened, so I wouldn't count on that changing.

"Some reports"? As in this comment from Chris Martirano, who demoed the 2X for Kraft and said in the comments "at the time I shot this video they gave me approval to mention that you will be able to load one gigabyte of use of [sic] samples. I stand by this 100%."

 

Not blaming Chris in the least here! Looks like Numa defininitely laid an egg with this one though.

 

Go to 1:03, I can't link to a specific time here.

 

 

And Brad, thanks for the heads up on the spongy action. The inconsistent velocity response might be a worse thing to deal with though. This is the company that makes Fatar keybeds right? Oof. My old Roland XP50 felt spongy but I got used to it. I will definitely seek out one of these Numas to try first, if I ever decide I might want one. Nobody else makes an 88-key controller this light & small, sounds or no sounds, right? I don't even care about the on-board speakers.

[drawback]

Judging by the time it took between introduction and delivery of the Numa 2/2x products, this isn't too surprising. Something that can happen with smaller companies in a serious time lag â a new direction/products that take center stage (ie the NumaX line), leaving the others less tended.

[brenner13]

The 'sample memory' works on both boards, but only loads expansion libraries from Studiologic"s website. There"s a Japanese Grand Piano, a German Grand, four Mellotron sounds (flute choir brass & strings), a couple of basses, some woodwinds and trumpets, and a different Wurly Rhodes, Clav, and DX Pno pack.

 

Numa Compact Expansion link

[Reezekeys]

Yes I saw those. Would you say either or both downloadable grands are superior to the acoustic piano that ships with these?

[brenner13]

Yes, the Japanese Grand is the one I use. Has the most dynamics and brightens up nicely with heavier playing. German Grand is nice too, but much darker.

 

Before these were available, I mostly used the Stage Grand because it cut through the mix the best of the stock sounds. Again, I"m a rocker.

 

Colossus and Ravenscroft are still a few steps above for character, dynamics, and overtones when playing by myself.

[HSS]

Yes, the Japanese Grand is the one I use. Has the most dynamics and brightens up nicely with heavier playing. German Grand is nice too, but much darker.

 

Before these were available, I mostly used the Stage Grand because it cut through the mix the best of the stock sounds. Again, I"m a rocker.

 

Colossus and Ravenscroft are still a few steps above for character, dynamics, and overtones when playing by myself.

I use the NC2x mainly for rehearsals, quick jams / open mics, and with my Ipad or Iphone at home. I play a lot of blues and soul and also use the Japanese Grand when I don't want to hassle with hooking my iPhone or Ipad up to run Ravenscroft.

 

I play piano on the NC2x with the touch set on "hard" so high velocities don't trigger as easily and "clank" as much.

 

I agree with previous comments that the NC2x's action is a bit "spongey, but I much prefer it over my NE5d for piano playing while I prefer my Kurz SP4-7's SW action a little more than the NC2x's.

 

Despite my whining about the NC2x, especially its crappy Leslie sim and overdrive, IMO the NC2x is helluva lot of board for its price point and portability.

[Reezekeys]

Yes, the Japanese Grand is the one I use. Has the most dynamics and brightens up nicely with heavier playing. German Grand is nice too, but much darker.

 

Before these were available, I mostly used the Stage Grand because it cut through the mix the best of the stock sounds. Again, I"m a rocker.

 

Colossus and Ravenscroft are still a few steps above for character, dynamics, and overtones when playing by myself.

 

It's interesting that you prefer those iOS pianos to the Japanese Grand, which afaik is billed as a "premium" piano for the N2/X. Which Colossus model â the big one? All I can do is check out u-tubes, and it's hard to tell how these will work for me since nobody seems to play the kind of stuff I do, at the dynamics I like to use.

 

I use the NC2x mainly for rehearsals, quick jams / open mics, and with my Ipad or Iphone at home. I play a lot of blues and soul and also use the Japanese Grand when I don't want to hassle with hooking my iPhone or Ipad up to run Ravenscroft.

 

I play piano on the NC2x with the touch set on "hard" so high velocities don't trigger as easily and "clank" as much.

 

I agree with previous comments that the NC2x's action is a bit "spongey, but I much prefer it over my NE5d for piano playing while I prefer my Kurz SP4-7's SW action a little more than the NC2x's.

 

Despite my whining about the NC2x, especially its crappy Leslie sim and overdrive, IMO the NC2x is helluva lot of board for its price point and portability.

Thanks guys for these tidbits. I'm allergic to "clanky" pianos, but it might be par for the course with anything other than the heavy hitters of the Mac & Windows world with lots of layers to work with. It's certainly possible I could use the N2 or 2X just as a controller with my computer â if the keybed works for me. The onboard pianos would be reserved for emergencies, or stuff like wedding ceremonies in the garden (if I ever do those kinds of gigs again). Just daydreaming of having a super-light 88 to bring to a gig.

[brenner13]

I"m an iOS musical app-aholic. My Colossus has all IAP"s. However, all are off-loaded except the big boy 16GB Grand and the three Uprights. The big one has a ton of character and some weird little tuning nuances that appeal to me. I like quirky, however it is too much or not quite right for certain songs and situations. The white upright is pretty clean and slightly bright, supposed to emulate a Yamaha U-Series, I think. The light tan one I think is considered Vintage, and has some slight tuning anomalies that I really like. Think smokey jazz club for the Dark Brown one.

 

As for the other grand pianos, the White one is a baby grand. Just not my cup of tea. A bit phasey and rather plunky at higher velocities. I just couldn"t get it to sing like the big boy.

The Red one emulates a 'well known Japanese grand'. IIRC, it rang out well, but was too plain Jane for my tastes. Did not quite have the dynamics and detail of the big one.

The Black one is a Steinway. Limited to 6 velocity layers, I could not get it to rumble like the big one. It is a bit midrange heavy to my ear.

The Orangish-Brown one is a 'historic German grand' and has four velocity layers and is the least CPU straining, I recall some latency issues with some of the samples and an over-all brittle tone that I just didn"t get along with.

 

The Electro group are well sampled instruments and provide nice, clean, base sound for those instruments. These might really take well run through some effects apps like MixBox or ToneStack to make 'em shine for cover tunes.

 

It would be nice to have some more in-app tone control on all of the instruments, but the attention to detail in the samples probably leaves little CPU power left over for a single app.

 

 

For a strait forward Acoustic Piano on iOS, with lots of tonal tweak ability, it is hard to do better than Ravenscroft. Slightly plain-Jane for me, but is easy to make sit well in a mix. Sometimes it is just what"s needed for certain situations.

 

 

Now if Pianoteq would hurry up and drop for iOS, be under 16GB and under $50, that"d be sure to open a barrel of monkeys! HA!

[Reezekeys]

Thanks for this detailed report. Your post cuts through all the bullcrap with real-world usage descriptions, and very nicely summarizes what's good and not-so-good about those Crudebyte pianos. Unfortunately the "tuning anomalies" you mention are things I heard in several youtubes of these pianos (forget which ones right now) and that's a deal-breaker for me. I'm actually fine with a "plain jane" piano; my gigs are primarily older music, of the jazz/r&b/funk variety, and my go-to pianos of the last 15 years or so have been NI on my Mac. Two things about those (and, I assume, all the high-end concert grand sampled guys) are 1) a very consistent and precise fingers-to-sound experience where no notes ever seem to "jump out" because a particular layer or sample has a different level, and 2) perfectly tuned unisons (which also speaks to the "notes jumping out" phenomenon). The other super-important thing of course are the timbre transitions between layers. Of course, part of the equation is the keyboard's velocity curve setting and making sure its 1 to 127 range matches your own dynamics; also, how consistent the response is from note to note. You might be able to tell I've put some thought into this stuff! I'm not saying the NI pianos I use are the best, just that I've been very happy with them and my little plastic Roland A800 pro in regards to everything I just mentioned. And unfortunately that's why these iOS pianos - the ones I've tried up to now â have fallen short for me, usually for their lack of dynamics. The fact that Colossus can do an iOS piano with twenty-something layers tells me it can be done. Give me the quality of the NI pianos I know inside that Colossus playback engine and I would probably be sold in a second. I just can't see myself forking over $50 with my fingers crossed, not knowing if I'm gonna play that big Colossus piano for ten seconds, then go... "next"!

[drawback]

Yeah, it took me about 10 seconds after re-downloading Colussus to go 'next' and trash the app again. There"s this cheese in the octaves below middle C (Red piano) that I just can"t stand.

 

Obviously the Ravenscroft through your K8s didn"t work for you, but let"s keep our eyes open and fingers crossed for Pianoteq iOS.