Copy songs is the best way to practice and study

[Crazysheep]

I think so.

Of cause, I think a certain skill level is required.

Do you think and doing the same way?

[Caevan O’Shite]

Not necessarily, if so then a parrot would make the best college professor...

[Tone Taster]

I respectfully disagree.

Your position is taking a small aspect (or a tool, if you will)

and then making it have a broad, sweeping and generalized applicability (like a building)

 

I see where you are coming from, but there are more tools required for the BEST way to construct a building.

 

I believe coppoing stuff is a must for ear training and chops, and although it is absolutely necessary; it is still just a tool

[Funk Jazz]

Originally posted by Dances With Werewolves:

Not necessarily, if so then a parrot would make the best college professor...

[Dr. Ellwood]

I think you need to nail down your theory with scales. Then apply what you have learned to either original work or copying other players. If you try to copy other players riffs you will not use the correct finger positions and in the end will develope bad habits that will hold you back in speed and accuracy. If you learn for instance proper chord inversion and learnig and understanding chord rotation and how to apply your scale work to any piece you will be learning the correct way. The scale work and chord theory are all a necessary part of paying your dues there is no other way around it.

[Crazysheep]

Thank you.

Do you study lots of teaching material?

What is the general arrangement in your daily pratice?

I appreciate for your reply.

[Phillydor]

There are different views on whether to learn classical guitar or not, and I wouldn't force it on someone who had no interest in classical playing. But I got a lot of satisfaction out of teaching myself classical,and it did wonders for my confidence as a player. Of course I learnt other styles as well. Just be aware classical technique doesn't work entirely for other styles of playing, but the self-discipline required helps keep you focused.

[GtrWiz]

I'm going to go against the grain here, I agree with the original post. I know I've mentioned in other threads that I went to Berklee, I can't recall if I've told of the biggest lesson that I learned there... In my last year I discovered that the best way to learn any style of music is to cop licks, chords, and parts off of records. I strongly believe in learning the basics, and being able to communicate with other musicians, but in the end, all the theory in the world really doesn't matter if you play well.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

I don't think most people can really learn by just doing one thing. There are a few (very few) "naturals" that just pick it up ...I guess through osmosis...and never really have to work all that hard for it. But, for the vast majority, I think it takes a little bit of a lot of things to get you "there".

 

I think copping licks, riff, progressions, etc. off of records is invaluable. There's really not much truly original music...almost everything is recycled licks and progressions...either embellished in one way or another or with the tempo or phrasing altered slightly.

 

I also think that learning a little from each genre is a good thing. Learning your way around Jazz progressions, learning the structure or blues, learning some classical...it all helps round a player out.

 

Learning music theory makes it all make sense. It makes it much easier to understand why a particular thing is done a particular way, why a song is composed the way it is. It's where you learn the "rules" of music.

 

Learning to read and write music simply makes it easier to learn other people's compositions or to write your own down. It's like the difference between listening to stories and reading a book. If you have the book in front of you, you can see exactly what the storyteller was saying any time you need to...if you just listened to the story, you are going to hear and remember your interpretation of the story.

 

It's like any other form of communication. You learn the basics...words, phrases, how to communicate ideas...just from listening and speaking. If you learn spelling, grammar and composition, you understand the construction of the language and it makes it easier. The bigger your vocabulary, the more easily and precisely you can communicate your thoughts and the more easily and thoroughly you understand other people's communications. You are still recycling the same old words and phrases, but you are adding some of yourself...

[Tone Taster]

Originally posted by Crazysheep:

Thank you.

Do you study lots of teaching material?

I have actually developed my own lesson plan as a result of all the teaching material i have accumulated.

The only outside source I use is Pat Martino's Linear Expressions

 

Originally posted by Crazysheep:

What is the general arrangement in your daily pratice?

I appreciate for your reply.

I start out playing the Martino exercises at 200bpms and work up to about 252-256 bpm all picked

 

I then go over jazz standards and make up my own lix

 

After that, i then work on my songwriting

 

(Rock, Funk, Fusion)

 

 

I used to cop stuff quite a bit and even transcribe it, but i came to a point to where i wanted to be able to play

any single note run

any arpeggios,

any chord voicing

anywhere on the neck

at any tempo

in any key

over any chord quality(maj, min, 7th, etc . .)

 

But still make it sound musical

 

I found that excessively copping stuff was getting in the way of me developing my own systematic/conceptual approach to tearing up tunes

 

So the way I approach a standard is like this

 

I play the melody in every possible position/fingering and octave register

 

I then play it chord melody style in as many possible neck positions

 

Then i work on comping the changes with as many possible voicings combinations

 

Then i work on soling over it in as many possible positions as i can on the neck

 

If you can't play something all over the neck, your phrasing will be limited to sounding good only in one key in that one part of the neck over one song.

What winds up happening is that you "box yourself in" to the confines of that one part of the neck for that one copped lick, in that one key, over that one song

 

So why not be able to play:

any single note run

any arpeggios,

any chord voicing

anywhere on the neck

at any tempo

in any key

over any chord quality(maj, min, 7th, etc . .)

 

But still make it sound musical?

[Caevan O’Shite]

I should apologize for being a bit trite and short in my previous reply, sorry! No offense meant.

 

It is good to learn from learning other player's work, especially to build up a grounding in a given style, and then go from there with your own ideas.

 

But it is best overall to learn how and why those players' parts work musically, rather than just copying them. It sounds good along with these chords and bass and piano, etc., but why does it work so well and how? How might you do it differently, or how might you use the same mechanisms in a different setting?

 

Know what I mean? Copying is one thing, understanding is another thing! (See Caputo's excellent post above.)

[pauldil]

I tend to agree that copying is one of the most important steps to studying music. By emulating the masters of your chosen genres, you can begin to build a musical vocabulary of not only note selection, but phrasing as well. Then the theory can let you see why certain things works so that you can come up with your own variations. If you approach it from just learning scales, then your playing will probably sound like scales. You can't learn music in a vacuum. Listening to others is vital.

 

Paul

[Darklava]

my head hurts...any one have a asprin

[Tone Taster]

Originally posted by pauldil:

If you approach it from just learning scales, then your playing will probably sound like scales. You can't learn music in a vacuum. Listening to others is vital.

 

Paul

No doubt, but it seemed that the original intent of the first post was that copping is the BEST way to practice and study.

 

Copping riff/tunes/melodies is definitely indispensable for without it, there would be no way to study different phrasing and note choices, no doubt.

 

However, there is also the other side of the coin as well

 

I guess if you were to do one or the other, copping would take priority, but then that would only immediately put a cap on the player's potential for growth

[Gifthorse]

Knowing what you want is the most important part of learning guitar. Knowing what you want gives you a direction. You will do what it takes to become the player you want to be, as long as you know what that is. Some guys want to be in a cover band, so learning other people's stuff will be at the top of their list. In order to do what they want they will have to work hard because to be good at anything that is a prerequisite, even to be a good cover player.

 

It is impossible to say what the best way is because everyone works differently. I do think you can learn alot from listening and learning other people's stuff, -- if thats what you want to do.. I personally am too self absorbed into my own stuff now so I don't bother anymore. I used to enjoy learning new songs from my favorite players. Doing anything new will make you better so I think it is healthy either way.

 

It all effects each other. Like if you work on your rythmn playing, that will help your lead playing too. I think the German word gestalt is applicable. I know whatever I practice always makes me better cuz you are logging hours playing.