Are we losing the art of singing?

[Museeip]

This is something that I've been thinking about for a few years now. Do you think we are losing the art of singing in American culture? Think of the biggest bands from the last 10 years. Too me it seems like most have only 2 people (including the singer)who can sing... 3 at the most. I know there are exceptions, but I would consider none of the big names you hear on the radio vocal groups. It seems to me that during the 50's,60's,70's, even the 80's more people sang in bands. After thinking about just bands I started to think about the general American population. I really olny know a few people my age(34)that sing. I can remember as a child it wasn't "cool" to sing or be in choir. Although I've always been atracted to "vocal" groups and my mother was a vocal teacher, I never really tried to sing until my 20's. My father has told me stories about being in high school and all singing around a piano at a party. It seems that kids in the 80's in high school NEVER did that. Is this just a phase of popular music or are we losing the art of singing?

[Billster]

Jane Monheit.

 

Madeleine Peyroux.

 

They're out there. I know they're out there.

 

It may not be popular in terms of household names, but the pendulum will swing.

[Museeip]

Oh there are great singers out there, always have been and always will be. I guess I'm asking about the general public as a whole. Do we still sing at parties...Did we ever? It even seems like other cultures embrace singing more than Americans.

[Billster]

Oh, I see what you mean.

 

I see some folks wandering around bursting into song. This sounds awful, but the "urban" crowd, like young black girls crooning for something to do while waiting for their friends to try on shoes or something. And to tell you the truth, some of those girls sound nice, but I can't tell if they are doing their own thing or imitating something else. And I have absolutely no idea why they burst into song in a retail store...

[Noodlesbad]

There are certainly fewer people in choirs (and singing in church in general). I'd also say that musical education in general has been in steady decline for the last 20 years (I'm only 35, so I can't really attest to the state beforehand), and that there's fewer people who make music in the home. We had a piano in our house growing up, but how may people get one nowadays with the thought that the folks will gather 'round a sing a few tunes before heading to bed at night?

With that said, I don't think we're "losing" the art of singing. It's just not as prevalent as it was before. There's more rapping, and a larger nummber of instrumental acts, as well as strains of rock where screaming, shouting, and imitating the Cookie Monster have taken the place of holding a tune.

That said, I know a dozen people who are either taking singing lessons or participating in church or secular choirs (of which there seems to be a growing number). And then there are people like my cousin and her husband who are involved in opera.

[Museeip]

Originally posted by Noodlesbad:

...We had a piano in our house growing up, but how may people get one nowadays with the thought that the folks will gather 'round a sing a few tunes before heading to bed at night? ...

.

We did too. It seemed like everyone used to have a piano in their home.

[Gruupi]

I tend to think that sometimes listening to popular music. I don't really like the whole cookie monster thing or the whiney type singing in many modern bands. But as sad as American Idol is, some of the contestants can really sing.

 

There are all kinds of singer songwriter types in all the local bars who can really sing. You can discount all the lip syncers and made for TV pretty boys. But there are plenty of good singers to listen to if you look. I've gotten past the point where I look for popular opinion to tell me what to listen to. You have to be proactive and seek out what you like.

[Museeip]

I totally agree Gruupi, I saw a few INXS Rockstar shows too, and I thought they had some great singers. Believe me I've long given up on radio or MTV to find talent. Again I guess I'm not so much talking about the singer songwriter types or American Idol even. I'm talking more about, the person, that songwriter may audition for bass, drums, guitar or keys. Heck even just the crowd we may see at a birthday party or holiday celebration.

[Warthog]

I never had the art of singing, so I guess I haven't lost it.

[Pappy P]

I know lots of people in my church who can sign.

I think spontaneous public singing disappeared with christmas caroling.

 

With the advent of video phones, you will never ever singing in public (and hopefully any other embarassing acts, I just hate making impossible promises).

[musicalhair]

I think "it" is getting better actually. Jason Mraz can sing right up there with anyone. "Christina" has wicked vocal chops-- she's not "new" anymore, but she can sing and I'd like it if she did an album of Jazz standards or blues. I don't know if he as a great range but the dude from Maroon 5-- or Maroon 7 or what ever number Maroon they are-- I think he's singing pretty well. I'm not all that up on the "new" stuff out there, and maybe Jason Mraz is the exception but I'm not without hope. I've met my share of good singers in clubs and in various bands.

 

One thing that is different today than say when I was young kid is-- and I hate to bring this up, but is to the point-- the advent of punk and Johnny Rotten. I didn't know The NY Dolls or MC5 or other bands so to me the "emancipation" of guys that "can't sing" sort of hit me with Johnny Rotten and the punks in NYC-- Richard Hell equally but he's less famous.

 

I think everyone's ears cringed when they first heard these guys "sing". After that you either got used to it or not, and you either learned to hear what they were doing or not. In any event this total disregard for "singing" in some cases opened up a whole new area of expression. Johnny Rotten did things with a lyric that Brian Wilson would never think of doing( and of course Brian Wilson could do things with a song that would asphixiate Johnny Rotten).

 

But, then guys like Depech Mode came out and I think they picked up on these various non-singers and took non-singing to a new ... ... depth. There was a time when there were a whole lotta bands with resonably high profiles that just couldn't sing and didn't scream to hide it.

 

Anyway, I'm not so sure bad singing as as dominant as it was. Perhaps Intentionally "bad" singing is more of an option now than it was in like 1970.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by musicalhair:

I think everyone's ears cringed when they first heard these guys "sing".

Yeah, but then again, guys like the Beatles and Jagger came out of a world where "singing" was what people like Dean Martin did. Even Elvis had a fairly deep, rich voice.

 

I'm sure the Stones and Beatles must all have sounded pretty raw at the time.

[Gruupi]

My parents thought the Beatles couldn't sing. They thought it sounded like yelling. This wasn't the Hey Jude type songs, this was the early stuff.

[Darklava]

Originally posted by Warthog:

I never had the art of singing, so I guess I haven't lost it.

You? I haven't even found it yet

[Pappy P]

Dean Martin. The ulitmate cool guy.

 

Today I really appreciate his singing.

 

But back then all I liked was the solid gold dancers. I think that's what he called them.

 

He made it look so cool. I wanted to start drinking whiskey right then.

 

Being six though, my dad would not allow it.

 

By the way, I sing worse than I dance.

 

Any time I try, my daughter tells me to stop.

[Museeip]

Originally posted by Darklava:

Originally posted by Warthog:

I never had the art of singing, so I guess I haven't lost it.

You? I haven't even found it yet

I think everyone can learn to sing. The voice is like any other instrument. When people tell me they can't sing I equate that to someone saying " I can't play the sax, or basson" because they've tried once or twice. All babies use their diamphram properlly, that's why they can cry so damn loud. We forget how to use it as we grow and have to relearn how.

[revorhythm]

Singing is defintly on its decline, take for instance rap. Much of rap doesnt sing, as much as just talk very fast. However, this is what kids like these days. My own struggle with singin personally, is that its hard for me to practice unless im alone with my guitar. My dad always yells at me that i sound like a dying cat, and so its discouraging. Then i remember, well im not tryin to appeal to my dad. But, also i cant sing without a guitar, i need it for, well i guess backup, and to cover up imperfections.

[Gifthorse]

I think the bands out in the 70's had more style with thier vocals. So many different types of singers to choose from. You had Robert Plant, Stevie Wonder, Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks, Geddy Lee, Dave Lee Roth, Ozzie.

 

Now it seems like all the big bands out are followers. No leaders.

 

You have a bunch of tardlies trying to sound like the guy in Pearl Jam or just cookie monstering out.

[Guitarzan]

when spit flys from your mouth and it sounds like you are trying to pass a turd blunt end first, it isn't "singing".

[Dr. Ellwood]

My band has to keep up the singing because we only do covers. We have rehearsals where the only instrument might be me on guitar turned down low enogh to just hear the chord changes or the keyboard on a low piano setting. The harmonies are still very important. Because we work on vocals alot it tends to keep our playing volume down, because we want to be heard well on the vocals. When we got rid of our girl singer we all had to step up more except the drummer who was always a great singer.

[fantasticsound]

You guys are nuts!

 

If anything, I see more people singing than ever before. Church choirs on the decline?!? Maybe you ought to ask some church musical directors and youth ministers. I think you'll find they are alive, kicking and popular in many churches.

 

Nashville has hosted many conventions of various church denominations for which I've run sound, A/V, etc. We're absolutely inundated with choirs from around the country.

 

And country music is alive and well with great singers, despite the amount of autotune going on. Rascal Flatts, Diamond Rio, The Dixie Chicks, countless numbers of bluegrass and family band acts connect through Nashville and Kentucky.

 

I'd say there are plenty of overproduced boy band/girl band groups that can sing. You never know for certain unless you hear them without a PA, but their are certainly acts out there with musicians as backup singers or separate backup singers, just as in the 1960's and 1970's.

[LPCustom]

Originally posted by revorhythm:

My dad always yells at me that i sound like a dying cat, and so its discouraging. Then i remember, well im not tryin to appeal to my dad. But, also i cant sing without a guitar, i need it for, well i guess backup, and to cover up imperfections.

Three things:

 

1. If you have a garage, go out there to do your singing (if you can stand the weather so to speak). The hard walls should act like a reverb chamber and make your voice sound fuller. You may find it easier to hear yourself, too. It's much like singing in a tiled bathroom. Harmonics and reverb.

 

2. You really don't want to cover up imperfections when you're practicing anything. You practice to get rid of them. So concentrate on working on the things that sound wrong to you.

 

There's a reason that singers practice singing scales just like we practice scales on our guitars. They practice at hitting the notes they want to hit just like we do. I may sound easy but it is anything but. Use your guitar to provide the notes and sing along with the scale.

 

You also need to find out what your strongest key is and try to sing in that key. Once you get a good feel about singing in your strong key, branch out and try other keys close to your strong key. If your strong key is 'A' then try singing in the key of 'G'.

 

You also probably need to improve your ear to be sure you are singing in tune and know what the next note you want to hit sounds like. This is especially true when you try to sing harmonies.

 

3. Sing from your diaphram instead of singing from your lungs. When you try to sing quietly you probably sing from your lungs. Try to sing loud enough that it's hard to hear an acoustic guitar when you're singing. The more airflow you have to control the better you will become in controlling it.

 

Singing from your diaphram is also good for your pulmonary system. It causes you to move lots of air in and out of your lungs and improves your lung capacity. It will also eventually give you enough breathe to hold notes longer.

 

There's lots more but I think you'll get the gist of what I'm saying. If singing was easy everybody would do it well. Lots of people do it, but a lot of them don't do it well.

[picker]

IF a guy like Josh Groban call still sel a lot of recordings singing in what these days really amounts to an archaic style(he actually has a voice and has been trained in it's use), then no, I don't think the society at large is losing the art of singing. There will always be an audience for someone like Streisand, or Sinatra, or Pavarotti, and someone to meet the audience's need, so we will never really lose the art of singing.

[Museeip]

Neil, I agree that there are some great singers and vocal groups in the country/bluegrass area's. I saw AKUS this summer and their oncore was acapella, and it was amazing. Maybe I should have just talked about rock and pop music. In those area's I do think the number of musicians that also sing is low. If you just listen to the radio that plays current rock music the lack of vocal harmonies is clear. I remember years ago when I saw Lenny Kravitz. I loved his songs because of the vocal harmonies. When I saw him, only he sang. I remember thinking.."you're lenny kravitz, you can get anyone you want in your band. Couldn't you have found some people that could sing too?".

[MILLO]

Mick Jagger's voice has always been more disgusting than a Death-metal band's vocalist's. Jimi Hendrix rapped half the time. Many country singers talked low half the time, putting more emphasis on their 'picturesque' accents than on the singing.

 

I don't think there's a decline in singing. Bad singers have made it big for a long time now. I think maybe it's all these cookie-monster-and-whiney-singers-in-teeny-bopper-band-playing-cheesy-songs-with-heavy-sounding-Mesa-Boogies-to-make-them-sound-serious somebody else mentioned that you just recently noticed and got you thinking about this issue, as well as Britney Spears and company. And of course, there's that guy from the White Stripes who can't play either.

 

But I think it's easier nowadays for any no-talent chump to become a star as a "singer", w/ all that gear and software that correct/process pitches and big producers who just know how to dial in the sound of the moment. But still Madonna and Michael Jackson were and are terrible singers, right? They made it big more than 20 years ago. Another horrible singer is Bette Midler, who can't even hit the right pitches and she became a star maybe in the 70's (can somebody correct me)? Man, she's horrible.

 

And yeah, go to some stinky country or blues bars in Austin, or even hear some R&B cover bands in a wedding or Bar Mitzvah and you'll find better singers than on the radio.... w/o the fancy hardware/software to help 'em sing in tune or sound full.

[skipclone 1]

IMO, like the music or not, the guy from Nickleback can sing.

I was planning on starting a thread to ask, and I think I know the answer, if there has ever been another group like The Association. I don`t know a lot about them but I believe they were a large group of harmonizing singers and all of them had great voices. Some musical arrangements are impractical these days because of the ridiculous costs.

I don`t know about singing but what has been lost is the old Tin Pan Alley system, where great writers would write songs for great musicians to play while backing great singers. For whatever reason everyone wants to do everything themselves these days. No sooner is someone famous then they start producing someone else. Just for the heck of it I taped the MTV video music award show this year and was treated to P. Diddy dancing. Yea right.

[skipclone 1]

Originally posted by Billster:

Oh, I see what you mean.

 

I see some folks wandering around bursting into song. This sounds awful, but the "urban" crowd, like young black girls crooning for something to do while waiting for their friends to try on shoes or something. And to tell you the truth, some of those girls sound nice, but I can't tell if they are doing their own thing or imitating something else. And I have absolutely no idea why they burst into song in a retail store...

that`s an easy one-African culture traditionally uses song to mark a lot of daily rituals as well as special occasions. That`s where a lot of blues and gospel came from laddie, work songs to pass the time while laboring youself to death.

[timrocker]

If I were on a search for a talented singer, I would go to the finals of a karaoke contest. I know, a lot of musicians have a deep seated grudge against karaoke the phenomenon, but the trick is to get things to work for you, even if you have the perception that they are not favorable trends.

 

About 5 years ago I was on a search for a singer to be my Steven Tyler. Or Robert Plant, or Roger Daltrey. I placed an ad in a local paper several months running. Of the 20 or so contacts I made, not one of them was able to sing acceptably. On the phone, their story added up. On the spot, they were each abominably bad. If I had it to do again, I would have just gone to the final couple of shows in a karaoke series, and handed cards to the people who could actually sing. Life is too short to spend months seiving and sorting the bad from the much worse.

[doc taz]

I agree with fantasticsound, in general. I, too, have seen and heard more people actually singing these days. I even have a young neighbor that mimics some of the better pop artists relatively well. She also has started playing some guitar, too, which is cool.

 

Thankfully, it's nothing like my own silly chromatic 'shredfests', and Cookie Monsta growls! (Ok, I sing, too, but that's mostly when I'm in church, atoning for my weirdness. )

[revorhythm]

LP- Thanx for the advice, didnt really expect it, but ill take those nto consideration. Ive heard the diaphragm thing before but never understood it until prolly about 6 months ago, when I figured it all out. But the garage things a good idea, same with the scales ill start tryin that.