Whats with Steve Vai?!?!

[phaeton]

Speaking of Vai and Crossroads and 1980s nostalgia....

 

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the movie Crossroads...

 

That cranked-up classical guitar wankin' at the end was the shiznit!

[MILLO]

guitarzan, I just wanted to tell you I've always thought Ani DiFranco was hot, and your new avatar.... well.... Am I sick?

 

oh, Vai, right, Zappa, right, right...

 

Ani... nipples....

 

I meant: I prefer Ani over Vai.... nevermind...

[Guitarzan]

no, you are not sick.

[Guitarzan]

Originally posted by phaeton:

Speaking of Vai and Crossroads and 1980s nostalgia....

 

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the movie Crossroads...

 

That cranked-up classical guitar wankin' at the end was the shiznit!

"Eugene's trick bag"

wicked piece of work !!!!

[MILLO]

speaking about looks and rock guitar virtuosos... who saw Yngwie on that 2003 G3 tour? Did he wear that sort of wrestler-style spandex suit w/ his huge belly sticking out? That outfit was the bomb! I loved it when he kicked on the air wearing that crap! I mean the guy is still pretty flexible, so many years of rockin' and so many steaks and pork-chops later!!!!

 

Yeah, Vai does play Zappa-style, but in an 'evolved' way... on the little snippets of his CD I've heard, he seemed to have sort of 'worked out' that type of phrasing in a very musical manner.

[phaeton]

"Eugene's trick bag"

wicked piece of work !!!!

 

Everything is a "bag" to Vai....

 

I whipped that one out at the High School talent show one year. Great fun.

 

Can't say I even remember how to start it these days

[Steve LeBlanc]

Steve Vai is great...you might not dig everything he does but he's done a lot and deserves a lot of respect for it. Flexible and Flexible Leftovers are amazing records.

[Steve LeBlanc]

oh and there's no doubt he's a really nice guy too

[Robman2]

We were invited to the Wild West Guitar, kickoff last Saturday night.

 

WW is a boutique shop, out near Phil O's place.

 

The owner Mark, is a player with a major day job as painting contractor and has done well.

 

He built the store, in an industrial area, and only carries HIGH END.

 

Only the top tier, Fender, Gibson, Taylor, Laravee, and other very selct brands.

 

Amps, basses etc in seperate areas and rooms.

 

He built a fully outfitted sound stage hall, Midas console, a recording room, a Bar and had that area decorated like Jungle Land, a completly reatil free environment for acts, or artists or regular folks, to come in and test the gear in realtime.

 

He hired Gary Hoey and his guys to play for the inaguration fest. Plus, he played and a ton of other local shreddists.

 

Over the past year I've seen Schenker and Lynch live around LA.

 

Hoey, is now at the top of that list for me personally.

 

More for his heart, which seems evident in his playing and also for his regular person demeanor.

 

It was cool .

 

His bass player, Jaimie, switched their usual (brand that's scary) to and from the pedal board, for Zaolla which is the cable WW stocks for high end so there were a few lying on the stage.

 

After a few notes, played, he turned around and the look on his face said it all.

 

Later during the set, the Ampeg he was using, crapped out and I thought OMG, we blew his system, but it was a bad piece of gear we found out later.

 

I'm sorry I can't get to the Dallas set this weekend, these guys are incredible and (gasp) humble to boot.

 

Gary's got a new record comming out soon, "Monster Surf", I cut my teeth on surf music so, I'll buy it.

 

Gary did a cover of The Wind Cried Mary, and it was beautiful, covering that song, note for note that well, is no small accomplishemnt.

 

FWIW

 

R

[Guitarzan]

lucky you Robman. someday i may get to visit a REAL NICE store.

[dougsthang]

What's really amazing about Vai is not only did he play with Zappa but he got his start with Zappa as a transcriber. He came to Frank while still in his teens and he'd transcribed a bunch of very difficult Zappa piece's all by ear. Frank was blown away and hired him to transcribe.

 

Steve Vai was also one of Joe Satriani's early students. That's big props to Joe when you hear Steve play.

 

I was at a NAMM show in the early 80's and I went over to the Jackson guitar booth, this was when Jackson was just starting to become big. Nobody is around but these two guys are sitting there playing guitar. I walk up and listen to them, it's just me some other guy. I can't even describe how good these two guys were and nobody was even paying attention. One guy was a tiny guy with pointy hair, he was playing these lush wide voiced chords. The other guy had a pianters jump suit on and was playing solo's over top of the wide voiced chords. I'm straining to see the names on the badges, Steve Vai (solo's) Eric Johnson (chords).

 

What was so mesmerising about Steve's playing is his use of circular vibrato. His fretting hand is always moving in small circles as he plays his scales up and down the neck. He is the most fluid player I've ever seen up close. What was also amazing (it was like 1981) I'd never seen or heard someone rip a scale that went from like the low F on the Low E all the way up to like the 16 fret on the high E with like two step intervals to each note. Jaw dropping. In fact after seeing those guys I knew it was like a gymnastic event for that style and if you couldn't touch what they were doing why go down that path. Suddenly I found a renewed love for G, C, D.

[Robman2]

It's a nice place, but so are most guitar stores, this one is a bit above the fray in approach.

 

Most of the customers, as I understand it are, collectors.

 

R

[kurious]

I'm reminded of that scene in Amadeus where the Emperor tells Mozart his opera was nice, but at some places it had "too many notes---I do believe the human ear can only listen to a certain number of notes." Steve is the most Mozartian (new word?) musician of his generation.

 

He continues to grow as a musician, despite (or perhaps on account of) being universally branded as one of the top "shredsters." Today, he's so much more. He orchestrates, he plays acoustic, he sings---he's the epitome of the student of music. He never rests on his laurels and is always taking on new challenges. While his live show is a lot of blaze, his recordings show a lot of subtlety. If one doesn't respect Steve's playing, one should respect the fact that he has ten times more ability than the average guitarist but still never stops discovering more aspects of music.

[Xyberai]

The Wewus: Steve Vai is an amazing musician......but after a while all that shredding, overtly technical stuff, gets to be wanking....too many notes, too much self absorption, and not enough music.

 

It's interesting to watch people who can do all those amazing technical feats, but if it doesn't fit into the song, or make it better.... who gives a shit?

------------------------

 

What are you talking about!? Ok, look at Yngwie, hes pretty much shred constantly without rest, i can see how you can consider that wanking but Vai? All the songs I'v heard from him are almost like movies. His music starts at one point and progresses to a climax then goes back to a soft lullaby. Cmon most songs are just flat the whole way through and yes when he does get to shredding it does fit in the song and it sounds damn melodic to me. Its better than hearing these artists now adays who rip off older artists. He inveted his own way of playing, his own style, his own sound. Everyone else pretty much copied off the next guy. These "slurred scales" sound alot damn better than these overuse pentatonics or shreded neoclassical scales and sure seem to flow alot better. Besides i dont think hes absorbed in himself when he plays, i think hes more absorbed in his music, im pretty sure anyone can tell you that if you watch most his videos.

[Gifthorse]

I loved Flexible and Passion & Warfare. Vai blew my mind when he was in Crossroads as 'Jack Butler', but I think I kind of came to the realization Dougsthang did. At a certain point you have to just realize what you are good at and do that. I mean VH, Holdsworth, Vai, Eric Johnson are all ridiculously good. Some guys are destined to be that good technically, but there is plenty of room in music for different styles. I used to sit around and listen to Vai stuff. I remember when 'blue powder' was released in Guitar Player. Thay had those little records. I listened to it alot.

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by flagshipmile:

I loved Flexible and Passion & Warfare. Vai blew my mind when he was in Crossroads as 'Jack Butler', but I think I kind of came to the realization Dougsthang did. At a certain point you have to just realize what you are good at and do that. I mean VH, Holdsworth, Vai, Eric Johnson are all ridiculously good. Some guys are destined to be that good technically, but there is plenty of room in music for different styles. I used to sit around and listen to Vai stuff. I remember when 'blue powder' was released in Guitar Player. Thay had those little records. I listened to it alot.

You posted just about every word I would have written, Flag!

 

My brother gave me Flexible on CD in the late 1980's. He couldn't wrap his head around it. It took me being a guitar player, knowing all the kudos for The Attitude Song and 3 full listens to the album before most of it began growing on me.

 

I, too, still have the Blue Powder soundpage somewhere. I remember liking the soundpage version better than the album cut, but I don't remember what, specifically, made me come to that conclusion.

 

But frankly, my favorite Steve Vai cut is Sisters, off Passion & Warfare. It's one of the most down tempo cuts he's recorded, but solid melodies and great, simple arranging make this cut stand out. The middle part is a wonderful homage to Jimi Hendrix's rhythm guitar and Wes Montgomery's octaves.

 

I find myself getting bored with a lot of what these guys do, so I haven't taken the plunge and bought any of his other albums. I felt burned by Satriani's, The Extremist, and never went back to that genre. (I loved Satch's first two albums and most of Flying In A Blue Dream, but damn if he didn't kill some great songs on those first two albums with completely inappropriate (IMO, of course) shred fests in the middle of some great, pop instrumentals.

[Gabriel E.]

I have mixed feelings about Vai. I dug "Passion and Warfare" when it came out. I like parts of "Flex-able" too. I LOVE the stuff he did with David Lee Roth.

 

I think he suffers from being too much of a perfectionist control freak. "Passion and Warfare" was too heavily edited and overly polished. I remember reading an interview Vai where he described recording it one note at a time for some sections so that it would be "perfect". The result of this is that I find much of his music, while technically impressive, to be cold and clinical sounding. I thought the songs and vocals on "Fire Garden" were lame. He approaches music from too cerebral an angle and it comes across. Eric Johnson is the same way - he's a brilliant musician who's records suck because he tries too hard to make them perfect.

 

But Vai really shines when he's not the one in control. When there's someone else to tell him when to stop and move on to the next thing. His playing with Zappa, PIL and Roth is brilliant and fiery. Even the stuff he did on that Whitesnake record is kinda cool.

 

I also think he's really inspirational as a teacher and as a "renaissance man". His "Alien Love Secrets" column in GP was great and his "24-hour workout" is one of the best things a student can practice to build their technical chops. He keeps bees. He runs a record company that has a very diverse roster. He's into motorcycles. He has a nice family. How many of us excel at so many different things?

[fantasticsound]

I agree with you, Gabriel, but I find it funny to say EJ tries too hard to make his albums perfect. I've only listened to his first two albums, but as much as I like the songs and performances, the deficiencies (IMO) of the production are impossible to miss. The bass and drums sound like toy synths, even though both were performed by musicians. When they hit the final stab after EJ's ending runs on Cliffs Of Dover, I can't help but wonder how they thought it sounded good. Sterile as can be.

 

There's making room for the featured instrument/voice, and then there's killing the rhythm track altogether. It sounded like he was playing to a karaoke track of the rhythm.

 

Vai's a perfectionist, no doubt.

[strat0124]

Great players all, but it all reminds me of Kenny G with a guitar.

[Gifthorse]

HAHAHA!! Kenny G. I can see why you say that Strat, probably because you are a jazz player. '

 

 

You posted just about every word I would have written, Flag!

 

My brother gave me Flexible on CD in the late 1980's. He couldn't wrap his head around it. It took me being a guitar player, knowing all the kudos for The Attitude Song and 3 full listens to the album before most of it began growing on me.

 

I, too, still have the Blue Powder soundpage somewhere. I remember liking the soundpage version better than the album cut, but I don't remember what, specifically, made me come to that conclusion.

 

But frankly, my favorite Steve Vai cut is Sisters, off Passion & Warfare. It's one of the most down tempo cuts he's recorded, but solid melodies and great, simple arranging make this cut stand out. The middle part is a wonderful homage to Jimi Hendrix's rhythm guitar and Wes Montgomery's octaves.

 

I find myself getting bored with a lot of what these guys do, so I haven't taken the plunge and bought any of his other albums. I felt burned by Satriani's, The Extremist, and never went back to that genre. (I loved Satch's first two albums and most of Flying In A Blue Dream, but damn if he didn't kill some great songs on those first two albums with completely inappropriate (IMO, of course) shred fests in the middle of some great, pop instrumentals.

I loved Satch's first 2 albums, then I got bored with the drums. I love Circles the best I think, great solo. Vai is a badass, but I still will always prefer EVH to any of those guys. Mainly because he has Alex backing him up and he is my favorite drummer. EVH is so naturally badass, and he has the coolest tone. His writing style is really original too. EVH isn't a shredder really. He is beyond that. Probably more nuerotic too. I admire the fact that he is so unique and underived. His tone is in his hands, when EDDIE plays a fast lick, it is usually REALLY cool. Like the fast pentatonic he does in the second solo in 'I'm the one' or that lick he ends alot of songs on (you really got me now). That lick is SOO cool. His old tone sounds like he actually had to do some work to play through it too, unlike the soupy candy coated sammy era VH guitar sound. Outta Love is still my fav VH solo. Alex goes sick, so does Eddie, great tune.

 

I swear I get that same tone from that song from my Peavey Classic. It is hard to believe though because he is using EL 34, the classic has 84's. Maybe I just think it is.

 

Back to Vai, my favorite Vai solo is that one off Passion that he fasted for. Tons of emotion. I also have always liked some of the stuff from the Roth solo albums. Big Trouble had a cool solo if I remember right.

[Gabriel E.]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

I agree with you, Gabriel, but I find it funny to say EJ tries too hard to make his albums perfect. I've only listened to his first two albums, but as much as I like the songs and performances, the deficiencies (IMO) of the production are impossible to miss. The bass and drums sound like toy synths, even though both were performed by musicians. When they hit the final stab after EJ's ending runs on Cliffs Of Dover, I can't help but wonder how they thought it sounded good. Sterile as can be.

Well. . . that was the 80s.

[Guitarzan]

when it comes to Satch i have to admit my fave tunes of his are The phone call, i believe and mystical potato head groove thing.

actually The phone call is my fave.

and i don't have too much of a problem with any of these guys when they shred, to me it is another flavor for my ears. i just don't crave it as often as some other flavors. but i appreciate it.

i can't knock the guys for over playing. they obviously enjoy doing thier thing. variety is good.

[GuitarWolf]

Originally posted by guitarzan:

when it comes to Satch i have to admit my fave tunes of his are The phone call, i believe and mystical potato head groove thing.

actually The phone call is my fave.

and i don't have too much of a problem with any of these guys when they shred, to me it is another flavor for my ears. i just don't crave it as often as some other flavors. but i appreciate it.

i can't knock the guys for over playing. they obviously enjoy doing thier thing. variety is good.

I like "I believe" right up to the point where Satch opens his mouth.

[Bluesape]

Vai is amazing to behold live or on video, but I can't listen to him either. The work is impeccable, but something's missing on audio. It doesn't hold my attention.

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Gabriel E.:

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

I agree with you, Gabriel, but I find it funny to say EJ tries too hard to make his albums perfect. I've only listened to his first two albums, but as much as I like the songs and performances, the deficiencies (IMO) of the production are impossible to miss. The bass and drums sound like toy synths, even though both were performed by musicians. When they hit the final stab after EJ's ending runs on Cliffs Of Dover, I can't help but wonder how they thought it sounded good. Sterile as can be.

Well. . . that was the 80s.

Uh, uh... can't use that as an excuse. About the same time I became aware of EJ, in the late 1980's, I was also listening to a lot of another Austin favorite... SRV! And his albums have incredible production and depth of timbres. And Van Halen's (Van Hagar) albums were well produced, too. And out of Austin? That was just shameful.

 

Again, Flag, you took the words outta my mouth. Van Halen has always floated my boat a lot more than any shredder or other guitar hero since. Originality plus style plus great melodies and harmonies plus having a great time performing adds up to a real guitar hero.

[skipclone 1]

I saw G3 in may, and for me Vai stole the show. I have a copy of a show with Eric Johnson on CD where he`s doing a lot of that silly, squeaky peuedo-orchestral Zappa-esque noise instead of playing so I was a bit apprehensive. But in may there was none of that, he just played like a madman, getting all kinds of wild note shaping techniques with mostly his fingers. Satriani played just about all his hits that everyone knew-it was great to hear `Flying in a Blue Dream`live-but he seemed to be kind of walking through the material to me, and John Petrucci is really accomplished musically but technically he seemed like a great speed picker, period. Take it for what it`s worth but it was Vai`s night.

Funny but a little over a month later I finally saw Jeff Beck live, and I know now why he isn`t on G3 even though he seems like an obvious choice-I`m sure he must have been approached.But with all those guys on G3 and in fact just about everyone I can think of with one or two exceptions, maybe Allan Holdsworth is one, when I hear them I`m aware that I`m listening to great guitar technique. Beck`s show was totally different, he was playing the MUSIC. I gave up trying to watch his fingers, I just sat back and listened. he`s just too good for for a technique beauty pageant.

[skipclone 1]

BTW, another notion I had at that show-

Can I get a `amen` if you think Tony MacAlpine SHOULD have been the guitarist for Living Colour?

[Gabriel E.]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

BTW, another notion I had at that show-

Can I get a `amen` if you think Tony MacAlpine SHOULD have been the guitarist for Living Colour?

Not from me! Vernon Reid is the only player who "should" have been in LC. He's an incredible player with a strong personality that can't be divorced from that band.

[Guitarzan]

didn't i hear something of a Living Colour comeback?

or did i miss something?

[skipclone 1]

They released a CD, it`s been a year or two now, callled `Collideoscope`. I have it, it`s got some good stuff but VR turned down the guitar-centric vibe a notch or two, much less soloing. I`m waiting for a friend to pass me a copy of the Montreaux festival with them on it. I was also told by someone who saw them with King Crimson that they owned the show.

Don`t get me wrong, he is a fine player. I think some of what he does is pretty quirky and perhaps an acquired taste. LC also has some strong opinions on sociall and political issues, I have no idea where Tony M. would stand on all that but I do think he would be a hell of a musical presence in that kind of group.