DP3 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I had another band in here over the last 2 days. They used a Marshal Amp with a Crate Cab. The sound was fantastic. Thick, rich, easy on the ears. So is the Cab the culprit? In my other thread, I tracked 2 Marshal stacks with another band that sounded like ass. They had both the head and cab. I tracked 2 different gtrs thru this Marshal amp/Crate Cab combo and they both sounded really good. "There is no spoon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I would think the tubes in the head would make WAY more difference than ANY cab with any speaker configuration. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP3 Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 Yeah but the sound out of both Marshal stacks with the first band was exactly the same. They both couldn't have had bad tubes. "There is no spoon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 If I were to play a character in a western movie, that'd be it... Marshal Stacks... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Originally posted by Tedster: If I were to play a character in a western movie, that'd be it... Marshal Stacks... My western name is Meade Barlow. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Originally posted by DP3: Yeah but the sound out of both Marshal stacks with the first band was exactly the same. They both couldn't have had bad tubes.But they could have had bad players. Not as players, but as knowing about equipment, and how to get good sounds from it. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billster Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Originally posted by DC: Originally posted by Tedster: If I were to play a character in a western movie, that'd be it... Marshal Stacks... My western name is Meade Barlow.Somebody told me I would make a great casting as a telegraph operator in a western movie..No Marshall Buy my CD on CD Baby! Bill Hartzell - the website MySpace?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesWithoutBlame Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Originally posted by DP3: They used a Marshal Amp with a Crate Cab. The sound was fantastic. Thick, rich, easy on the ears. So is the Cab the culprit? In my other thread, I tracked 2 Marshal stacks with another band that sounded like ass. They had both the head and cab. Is the Crate cabinet an enclosed one or open in the back? What size speakers and what type in the Crate? If I were you I'd get all the info I could on the cabinet and if you don't mind...share it here? Marshall cabinets are all enclosed backs right? ==================================================== Check out my original music at http://www.soundclick.com/bands/jacker "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but not in practice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin-erator Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Originally posted by BluesWithoutBlame: Marshall cabinets are all enclosed backs right?Of the cabs I've seen, all are closed, excluding the combos. Over the past 40 years, Marshall has made dozens of different kinds of heads. Yes, there is a Marshall sound. However, different models sound different. Also, I know people who have put several identical JCM 800 heads next to eachother and A/B switched back and forther between them and have found that no two JCM 800 heads sound alike. Bill's point about players who don't know how to get good tone out of the amp is a good one. Were these players trying to get an ultra-distorted tone out of the amp? Were they using some really bad effects box to get their tone? I've seen players who can put a Pod in front of a Marshall and make it sound like absolute crap. I've also seen a player run a Pod through a solid state Peavey and make it sound heavenly. Many factors . . . . Vinny Cervoni vcbluzman@hotmail.com www.bluzberrypi.com www.42ndstband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesWithoutBlame Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Good info...I would still like to know what the Crate bottom was. Guess I could try their site and see if they offer both kinds. ==================================================== Check out my original music at http://www.soundclick.com/bands/jacker "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but not in practice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 The best example of this was at a local show here. The guitar player had been bitching about his amp being shit for almost a year... whine, whine, whine. At one point in the night, the band invited another local player to join them on stage. He took this guitar player's axe, strummed a chord, frowned, turned around and fiddled with the amp, and it sounded -super-. Of course the original guitar player was embarassed, but he swore he would never change the amp settings. Within a week, he was back to his normal, crappy sound. So it doesn't have to be the gear at all. Could be the players. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP3 Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 Sorry but I have to disagree with you about the players. I tryed just about everything. It was simply a matter of a bad sounding rig. Don't know what kind of crate it was other than a 4 speaker cab. Anyway the gtr sound in the mix was hugh, I mean you could turn it up loud and it never got harsh, great sound imo. "There is no spoon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesWithoutBlame Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Originally posted by DP3: Sorry but I have to disagree with you about the players. I tryed just about everything. It was simply a matter of a bad sounding rig. Don't know what kind of crate it was other than a 4 speaker cab. Anyway the gtr sound in the mix was hugh, I mean you could turn it up loud and it never got harsh, great sound imo.Of course...it's up to you, but if you are really interested in finding out what it was I would go to www.crateamps.com and look through ALL the products and see if I could recognixe the bottom you saw. (This is assuming you have absolutely NO way to get ahold of the person that had the Crate, and no one else that was there remembers) I took a look and the "blues" amps have all 4 x 12" (I think it was Celestion) speakers. However I didn't look through all the products, because I don't know what it really looked like so I have nothing to recognize. I DID notice a 4 x 10" (at least I THINK it is from the model number...the "specs" page won't load and it doesn't say in the blurb about it) cabinet I think...but it was a bass cabinet. Still, plenty of guitarists have used bass cabinets for guitar. I personally find 4 x 10" cabinets perfect for my ES-335. If you ever find out, please let us know! Good luck ==================================================== Check out my original music at http://www.soundclick.com/bands/jacker "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but not in practice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gifthorse Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 The cabinet is A HUGE factor in tone. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no experience. My favorite cabinets for a chunky rock tone are Orange. They are built heavy duty and they sound like they have marbles in the speakers or something. You get what you pay for and last time I checked they were very pricey. The speakers and cabinet construction are very important. VHT makes excellent cabinets also but they are also expensive. Believe it or not Randall also makes come nice ones. I have a Peavey cabinet. It is a tweed one that goes with my classic head. I think it is mediocre. Not nearly as good as an Orange or a VHT. http://flagshipmile.dmusic.com/ http://www.myspace.com/gifthorse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave da Dude Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com: But they could have had bad players. Not as players, but as knowing about equipment, and how to get good sounds from it. Billec Vinny, I've seen players who can put a Pod in front of a Marshall and make it sound like absolute crap. I've also seen a player run a Pod through a solid state Peavey and make it sound heavenly. Now that I've got almost all the *right* gear, I'm just starting to try and learn this skill. I'm currently in the first category that Vinny mentions above. How to learn? Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoes Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Appreciating how adventurous this analysis could get and limited my first hand knowledge is from where I currently sit.... Check out what that Crate cabinet was and you will likely find it was ported or may possibly have been a bass cabinet. Everything else mentioned is certainly possible but you've got a hunch here... chase it down and report back. I still think guitars are like shoes, but louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwestenberg Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Now that I've got almost all the *right* gear, I'm just starting to try and learn this skill. I'm currently in the first category that Vinny mentions above. [Embarrassed] How to learn? [Confused] Realize that there is a world of difference between "sound" and "feel" for a guitar player. It is very enlightening to record something with what seems to be a bad sound only to realize on playback that it was really the feel that was lacking. This was one of the sticking points of the Sansamp devices early on for many guitar players. It also has a lot to do with the gain inflation many experience. Lyrics. Wasted space between solos. I can't tell you, but I can play it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar Daddy Kinkade Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 In my last band myself and the other guitar player both used Mesa Boogie pre-amps, I had a 1960 A Marshall cab and the other guy used Crate cabs and everyone preferred my tone, cabs do make a big difference. www.sugardaddykinkade.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP3 Posted November 28, 2004 Author Share Posted November 28, 2004 They are coming in tommrow sunday for more mixing. I'll find out what kind of crate cab it was. "There is no spoon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Speakers are the things you hear. You betcha they make a huge diff in your tone. However, the amp also plays a large part. And of course the player makes the biggest difference.... I don't know what to tell you about the bad sound you got from those guys with the Marshall stacks. The problem could be at any point in the signal chain, including the engineer. You just have to check it point-by-point against stuff that you know works. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin-erator Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Originally posted by coyote: The problem could be at any point in the signal chain, including the engineer. You just have to check it point-by-point against stuff that you know works.Um . . . coyote . . . do you realize that DP3 is an engineer? Vinny Cervoni vcbluzman@hotmail.com www.bluzberrypi.com www.42ndstband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesWithoutBlame Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Originally posted by DP3: They are coming in tommrow sunday for more mixing. I'll find out what kind of crate cab it was.Hey DP3, this was quite a while ago now. Did you find out? ==================================================== Check out my original music at http://www.soundclick.com/bands/jacker "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but not in practice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.