Caevan O’Shite Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Well, I was also inspired by BiC's plethora of posts inquiring after tips, tricks, and bits of wisdom on various guitar-related subjects to post this. Give it up, y'all, we know you're out there playin' gee-tars with their saw-dust still fresh under your fingernails, and lacquer in a jar instead of liquor... What tips, tricks, observations, and pearls of wisdom on design and building guitars can you cast before us swine? Again, I know you're out there, all smellin' of cedar and lacquer-thinner, and playing some mighty fine and unique axes! Ante-up! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatnik Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I want to build my own guitar, but I know nothing about electronics. Which books are good to build Electric Guitar models like Strat or Les Paul? "Creo en la Reflexión, no en Dogmas" Beatnik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James-Italy Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 No ideas on the actual contruction of guitars here, but I did do major electronic surgery yesterday on my brand new 2003 Gisbon Les Paul Goldtop '57 Reissue. Does that count? Many of you have probably been doing this stuff for years, but for me it was the first time! Thought I'd share a bit what I found out in case anyone else is considering this kind of thing. Project Replace pickups, replace capacitors, try 50's wiring mod to new Goldtop. Plan I did a lot of research BEFORE unscrewing the covers of the guitar. I tried to take advantage of the learned wisdom of others and tried to avoid the common mistakes. The LesPaulForum was a big help as guys had posted detailed drawings and photos of both before and after the operations. I made sure I new exactly how the guitar was wired now, how I wanted to wire it, and what steps I'd need to take. I'm not usually so anal about things, I tend to jump right in and then look for help when I screw it up, but I was scared about opening up my new love and really tried to think of everything before starting. Big big help this turned out to be. Soldering I was told that soldering is the biggest problem when working on guitars. The consensus was you need a decent iron, 60/40 Multi Core Rosin solder (NO ACID!!!! It will corrode), and patience. I practised a bit on an old radio before starting and learned about "tinning", "cold solder joints" (bad!), and tried to get to a level where the iron touches the joint only for a second or two. I covered the surrounding areas with cloth in case I spilled or accidentally touched the guitar with the hot iron. Mods I removed the BurstBucker #1 and #2 and the bumble-bee caps. Then I put in the new "Fillmore" pickups and Jensen all copper Paper in Oil caps (0.10 neck/0.022 bridge). I completely rewired the routing of the pickups to 50's style. I also tried the "Peter Green" mod so the pickups were out of phase in the middle position. That is for the super "Quack" effect. I didn't flip the magnets, just reversed the red/black wires on the neck pickup to achieve this. I left the covers off the pickups for the zebra look (easy to put back on with no rewiring necessary). I didn't cut the strings so I could take them off and reuse them in case I needed to make any changes. Results I plugged in the guitar and tuned up and was really pissed that there was a constant hum. If I touched the strings or any metal on the guitar the hum went away. Really annoying and not something I can live with. I tried playing around with the volume and tone levels and didn't care for the results. When the switch was in the bridge position with bridge pup volume on 0 and I had the neck pup volume on 10, the guitar continued to play quietly (volume problem). All of the wiring was correct and the soldering looked good, but I was really upset! I figured it must be the "50's wiring mod" which is not unanimously considered the best. Gibson wires them in the "modern" way and many people prefer this. I figured I'd try the 50's while I was in there.... I rewired the guitar in the modern wiring configuration and this solved both the hum and the volume problem. Conclusion Three hours work and the guitar which sounded great sounds even better now to me. I managed to not burn or screw up anything! Everything I did can be changed back with another couple hours work. I'm quite happy because now I feel confident to operate on my guitars myself and not rely on a guitar tech. I learned tons about the electronics of the guitar. I really like the new pickups but the thing that impressed me the most is the out-of-phase wiring in the middle position. I seldom used the middle position, but with the quack that I get now I'm sure I'll be using it quite a bit. It's almost like having a P90 in the guitar. If I'm not too lazy I'll try to post a couple of samples later. My Gear My Attempts at Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardAshkenazi Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 James, that's some cool stuff, there. I need to get a new and better bass someday. (I know, I know, what am I doing talking about bass? But the topic's already here, and I don't read that forum habitually...) I'm thinking of getting one of those Carvin kits and assembling it myself. Of course, I've never really soldered anything ever, and never done any wood finishing... How easy would it be to screw it up completely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James-Italy Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Originally posted by RichardAshkenazi: James, that's some cool stuff, there. I need to get a new and better bass someday. (I know, I know, what am I doing talking about bass? But the topic's already here, and I don't read that forum habitually...) I'm thinking of getting one of those Carvin kits and assembling it myself. Of course, I've never really soldered anything ever, and never done any wood finishing... How easy would it be to screw it up completely?Thx. If you're thinking about a Carvin kit, I'd say go for it! I've heard lots of good things about the Carvins and you'll learn so much about guitars if you build your own. I don't know anything about wood finishing, but as far as the electronics go there's not a lot you can screw up that can't be fixed later. Soldering isn't that hard, it just takes a bit of practise. If you are real careful not to burn or mar the wood, I think anything that goes wrong could be corrected by a local guitar tech if you can't solve it. Plus I'm sure between this forum and Carvin's (if they have one), you'd find plenty of help along the way. My Gear My Attempts at Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbo Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I read a tech tip a few years back that you shouldn't use a soldering gun on guitar because it can demagnetize the pickups. The article said you should only use a soldering iron.I'm not sure if that's true, but I only use a soldering iron to be on the safe side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 Originally posted by Bobbo: I read a tech tip a few years back that you shouldn't use a soldering gun on guitar because it can demagnetize the pickups. The article said you should only use a soldering iron.I'm not sure if that's true, but I only use a soldering iron to be on the safe side.A gun is way too much wattage for the tiny wires you'll find inside a guitar. A 25 watt iron should be plenty, even for soldering ground wires on the back of pots. I've built a bunch of electric bodies from scratch and will be glad to answer any woodworking questions. -David http://www.garageband.com/artist/MichaelangelosMuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted October 26, 2003 Author Share Posted October 26, 2003 Originally posted by Stratbeatle: I want to build my own guitar, but I know nothing about electronics. Which books are good to build Electric Guitar models like Strat or Les Paul?Well, you won't go wrong looking for books, vids, etc. here- (seems like I post this link more and more) http://www.StewMac.com/ Also check out Warmoth at- http://www.Warmoth.com/ Between those two, you can build anything! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddy ray Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by Bobbo: I read a tech tip a few years back that you shouldn't use a soldering gun on guitar because it can demagnetize the pickups. The article said you should only use a soldering iron.I'm not sure if that's true, but I only use a soldering iron to be on the safe side.the reason i head given is that a solder gun has a transformer which creats an electromagnetic field which is hazardous to the well being of pickups have fun now! whatever the mind of man can concieve & believe it can achieve! study it as a science/practice it as an art! luck...that's what happens when preparation & opportunity intersect properly percieved every situation becomes an opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 James: I also tried the "Peter Green" mod so the pickups were out of phase in the middle position. That is for the super "Quack" effect. I didn't flip the magnets, just reversed the red/black wires on the neck pickup to achieve this. I've heard that the way Peter Green really got that sound was by turning the pickup upside down in the neck. The adjustment screws are closer to the bridge on the neck pickup instead of being closer to the neck. This put his neck pickup magneticly out of phase, not wired out of phase. It would sound more like a Strat's neck/middle position than the effect you got. Less ear-killing treble! BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 I've only built one guitar, and that was a bad idea. I used a fretboard from an old destroyed Tiesco or something and grafted it to a new poplar neck and mounted to a plywood body. The action was so bad that I used it for a amplifier test instrument in my garage, at least until I destroyed the guitar. I've got a neck (a good one this time), pickups, tuners, pieces of a bridge, all kinds of wood scraps, and I think I can build a body in dad's workshop out of MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard ). I'm thinking Flying V or Dean or something along those lines. Strats are cool, but if I'm going through all the trouble to build from the ground up, I'm going to go wild with it. BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddy ray Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 the project: epiphone, les paul elite with chambered body & f holes the problem: warped & twisted neck had a huge hump at 3rd fret, compounded by excessive relief in the 7th to 12th fret area non functioning truss rod due to previous owner or repairman trying to correct the hump problem guitar was unplayable with any reasonable string height bought it reeeeeeeeeeeeal cheap because of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the solution: removed fingerboard built fixture which allowed me to use my router as a vertical mill & milled neck top flat, paying attention to neck/bridge angle milled channels & installed carbon fiber stiffener rods on either side of truss rod installed new double action truss rod re-installed fingerboard new neck bindings refretted with dunlop 6000 wire (.118/.058) fosolized bone nut the result: the guitar plays cleanly in all registers with an extremely low action the neck was quite flexy before... the carbon fiber stiffened it up to the point that a set of .012/.052;\'s with wound 3rd pulled only .015 or so relief into the neck before application of truss rod it currently has .0035/.004" relief. it's a little gaudey lookin to me with all the gold & white trim & such...but i love the way it plays have fun now! whatever the mind of man can concieve & believe it can achieve! study it as a science/practice it as an art! luck...that's what happens when preparation & opportunity intersect properly percieved every situation becomes an opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 I have such a cool idea for a custom guitar body. Damn. I'm gonna have someone build it for me. I know a guy who's pretty damn good with wood, and he's a bass player, too... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted November 23, 2003 Author Share Posted November 23, 2003 daddy ray- That Epiphone Les Paul Elite project was a very ambitious and intensive repair! Congrats on a thorny job well handled! My hat's off to ya, man. Tedster- hip me to this far-out dreamed-up guit-bod idee of yours, fill us in!! Whuttizzitt whuttizzitt whuttizzitt whuttizzitt whuttizzitt whuttizzitt whuttizzitt!!! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demarc Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Give it up, y'all, we know you're out there playin' gee-tars with their saw-dust still fresh under your fingernails, and lacquer in a jar instead of liquor... What tips, tricks, observations, and pearls of wisdom on design and building guitars can you cast before us swine? Again, I know you're out there, all smellin' of cedar and lacquer-thinner, and playing some mighty fine and unique axes! Ante-up! Caevan, I'm not sure if I smell of cedar and lacquer thinner right now. Prolly a combination of gasoline and gin and tonic (g&t) I am not sure of the tips, tricks, and observations. If you know a little of my work, you know I am not mainstream or conventional. So I am sure many people will have other opinions (aren't opinions great?). As far as pearls, I would be glad to (try to) answer any specific questions, but as far as offering, I will try to start with... Building - If you are gonna try to build an acoustic and hand bend the sides, I would start with some blanks of something cheap. You will prolly break a few sides trying to bend them. I like to use a side that measures between .085 and .100 thick (gotta love those dial calipers), best range for bending. This translates to 3/32 (.0937). These dimensions are in inches, I hail from Florida, USA. If you are building acoustic OR electric from scratch, I would make a dummy bridge out of a scrap chunk of maple (or even pine) and trim it to height for action and slide it around for intonation until you figure out where and how high the REAL one needs to be. Sorry, but I can't help on nuts or headstocks. Don't use 'em... Design - I have never seen any reason to try to restrict this.... I love the smell of fresh ideas in the morning. Thing is most of 'em come at night.. Check out some handcrafted guitars: http://home.mindspring.com/~grus/guitars.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy d Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Carvin Kits... I put together the guitar kit. It is very very easy. It requires no soldering, only sanding and putting in screws. If you do a tung oil finish as they recommend, that is very easy to. Go for it RichardAshkenazi. Roy http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/alexisdmusic.htm "once it stops bein' a mystery it stops bein' true" David Mowaljarlai - Ngarinyin Aboriginal Elder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Originally posted by Caevan O'Shite: daddy ray- That Epiphone Les Paul Elite project was a very ambitious and intensive repair! Congrats on a thorny job well handled! My hat's off to ya, man. Tedster- hip me to this far-out dreamed-up guit-bod idee of yours, fill us in!! Whuttizzitt whuttizzitt whuttizzitt whuttizzitt whuttizzitt whuttizzitt whuttizzitt!!!Well, Caveman...I'll send you a pic of what I want the body to look like in a PM..., k? Heck, I'll just do it here. I don't care if anyone else uses the idea, I just think it's cool...especially for ol' road dawgs... The body style should be immediately familiar... http://www.us-highways.com/ilus66.jpg I want it to look like a Route 66 sign. The state's not important, if that gets painted on. A couple of P-90s...I reckon I can figure how to fasten the neck, even with that point at the top. That's what I want. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolead Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 First of all, this book is the closest thing to being a pro-luthier extradonaire as I'll probably get: Guitar Player's Repair Guide by Dan Erlwine. Project: My Jackson was buzzing and needed a fret crowning. I wanted to save money. Cost in stores - $40. Cost to do it myself - Pric... j/k - $15. Problems: I didn't want to screw up my guitar. A fret job isn't easy and I ran into several problems on the way. First of being I didn't file down enough. Had to file 4 times, b/c I filed too much on the third time. After 4 hours of intense labor, I finally got them smooth and nice playing. Tools: - Triangular File - Flat file - Masking tape - 600 grit sandpaper - Patience - Plenty of good CDs Tips: - read the Dan Erlwine book. It's better than anything I could tell you. - I'm not joking about patience as a tool. - Those CDs come in really handy. - Don't give up easily. - DIY work can be hard a frusturating. Result: One Revolead special Jackson DX-10D, with a much better playing neck. Nothing compares to something I've put so much effort and time into. It's the greatest feeling. Like bringing up a child who's going to Harvard. Shut up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Soloway Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 My only advice is that if you're going to go to the trouble of designing a guitar, have a functional reason for your design decisions. Don't just follow tradition and don't just be different for the sake of being different. Find a musical need that needs to be fulfilled and then come up with a design to fulfill it. www.solowayguitars.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demarc Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Find a musical need that needs to be fulfilled and then come up with a design to fulfill it. I'll second that! Check out some handcrafted guitars: http://home.mindspring.com/~grus/guitars.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 If you want a cheap and easy to build body, get a pine 2 x 6" and cut it so that you've got sharp corners on the edges, not the rounded edges it's got when you buy it. Then glue three sections of it side by side. This will give you a blank close to 17" wide by 1.5" thick. Cut out some big air pockets in the middle and put 1/4" masonite or luan ply over the top and bottom. Glue the top and bolt the bottom. The Danelectro construction technique. I've thought about doing that with the MDF body, making it about 3" thick at the center and slightly bowing the top and back so it's more rigid. I don't have an electric hollow body, might be cool. Well, I do have a Danelectro, but it's got those whimpy lip-stick tubes... BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by roy d: "Carvin Kits... -If you do a tung oil finish as they recommend, that is very easy to. Go for it, RichardAshkenazi."Speaking of tung oil, if you want to use it, I must highly recommend that you top it off with some Butcher's Wax; this makes a seriously nice feeling "raw" finish, especially on a maple or koa neck. That being said... Bastid E, who frequents the Low Down Lowdown Bass Forum, recommends a polymerized tung-oil varnish as a superior finish for necks whose wood is suitable (maple and koa are good examples). He and Wraub were working on a bass project together. He highly recommended this Sutherland Welles "Wiping Varnish", sold here by Garrett Wade, saying of it that "THIS is the shzznt". Originally posted by Bastid E: "...Otherwise, and this is my philosophy on finishing necks, it's polymerized tung oil varnish. It penetrates, builds to a film and is a lot more flexible and solvent resistant than lacquer. This means it protects better. It also makes wood look better, feels unbelievable under your hands and gloss/film is completely controlable at any stage. Pure tung oil and wax is not really a viable finish the more I think about it because of how permiable and heat/chemical sensitive it is. The wax does a good job protecting the oil finish, but you have to stay on top of it at least weekly."question: (Me, Caevan O'Shite:) "What is polymerized tung-oil varnish, and where can I get it, and how do I use it properly? You say it can be buffed to the desired "gloss" or lack thereof? Can it be used over stain, and if so, what kinds of stains (bases) can or should be used?" Originally posted by Bastid E: "Polymerized tung oil varnish is a complicated way of saying a stand-alone wiping varnish made out of tung oil. However, THIS* is the shzznt. Ignore the "luster" part of the description, because that simply refers to concentration of finish vs. solvent. They also make a stain, but if you can't find the color you want you can make your own version with the varnish and Japan colors.* ("THIS" refers to the link that Mr. Bastid provided for the Garrett Wade webpage listing Sutherland Welles polymerized tung oil "Wiping Varnishes", reproduced above.) Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddy ray Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 the tung oil is the way to go has a "dry" feel that doesn't "grab" my hand like lacquer or poly seem to do. also on my les paul with it's painted neck, i tried sanding the finish with 1000 grit until all gloss was gone & applied a hard wax over that. works good. that's my second choice if i don't want to strip a neck for tung oil. have fun now! whatever the mind of man can concieve & believe it can achieve! study it as a science/practice it as an art! luck...that's what happens when preparation & opportunity intersect properly percieved every situation becomes an opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted November 25, 2003 Author Share Posted November 25, 2003 Originally posted by Tedster the Turkey: "I have such a cool idea for a custom guitar body. Damn. I'm gonna have someone build it for me." "I don't care if anyone else uses the idea, I just think it's cool...especially for ol' road dawgs... The body style should be immediately familiar..." http://www.us-highways.com/ilus66.jpg "That's what I want." (In an inspirational fervor) "It's a sign, Tedster, a SIGN!!" Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Guitars Miami Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 try the book, "make your own electric guitar" by melvyn hiscock. the new version actually has a forward by brian may. that's the book that got me started 17 years ago. now i have my own little custom shop. it's very thorough, and worth every penny. "D" Guitars, Miami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Strat Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Welcome to the forum D Guitars! BlueStrat a.k.a. "El Guapo" ...Better fuzz through science... http://geocities.com/teleman28056/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I echo BlueStrat's sentiments, D... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 Yeah, welcome, D! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demarc Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Hey D, Thanks for the tip! That make me think back....Prolly also about 17 years ago I got a book Classic Guitar Construction by Irving Sloane. Great book! Easy to read simple style showing construction of an acoustic guitar and tools needed along the way. That fueled the fire for me! I think it is out of print though. By The Way, D, where in Miami are you? I am in Hollywood! e-mail me if you want to. Check out some handcrafted guitars: http://home.mindspring.com/~grus/guitars.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69tele Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 a kit IMO is the way to start. I learnt a lot buidling this kit and it's given me confidence to tackle a more demanding jobs. Its also given me a guitar to test pickups etc... http://www.gear-review.co.uk/reviews/wd_kit/ Ernie If in doubt leave it Out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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