tomaerovons.com Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 I do a lot of recording of covers for a company that hires me to do them. I use a Paul Reed Smith standard 24, and though in general I love it's versatility, most of the time, I find this guitar is just plain too thin, whether it's doing a simple clean rhythm thing, or tuned down and doing metal. Finances, as usual, are tight. Someone suggested, "Look, just sell it, for what you get out of it you get an Epiphone LP Standard, and a Mexican Strat, and you'd be able to cover the sounds." Being skeptical of anything but the real deal, I wanted to ask what everyone thought of the Epi Standards. My gut is to get the real LP Standard, and get a Mex Strat. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddyelmis Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Originally posted by tom@aerovons.com: Someone suggested, "Look, just sell it, for what you get out of it you get an Epiphone LP Standard, and a Mexican Strat, and you'd be able to cover the sounds." Being skeptical of anything but the real deal, I wanted to ask what everyone thought of the Epi Standards. My gut is to get the real LP Standard, and get a Mex Strat. Thanks!I'm in a band that covers just about everything. My main axes are an 82 American Strat and an ASAT Standard. I needed a solid, LP humbucking sound for several tunes, but did not want to shell out $1500 for a Gibson that would see limited use. I bought a Epi LP flametop on eBay for about $350, put Grover tuners on it, a Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge and a 59 in the Neck, added straplocks, change the pots and the switch. All told, I think I have about $500 in the guitar, and I'll be damned if it doesn't give me the chunky LP sound through my Marshall. Would a "real" LP sound better? Don't know, maybe different, but better is subjective. IMHO, if you're looking for a working tool to get the LP sound, you can do that for a lot less with an Epi with some mods than springing for the Gibson. An awful lot of bands are getting that sound through Epi's. Of course, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong. www.ruleradio.com "Fame is like death: We will never know what it looks like until we've reached the other side. Then it will be impossible to describe and no one will believe you if you try." - Sloane Crosley, Village Voice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prague Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Get the real LP and Strat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgarallanpoe Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 "Get a real LP and a Strat" Oh boy... Get a USA Hamer Artist, and a USA Hamer Daytona...you will save about $1000 and get better guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbrock1san.rr.com Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Originally posted by edgarallanpoe: "Get a real LP and a Strat" Oh boy...Yeah, there has never been a good album made with those guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Oh, I gotta jump in on this one... ! Tom- Maybe a simple pickup change could do it for you, if the guitar itself- and the neck-pickup placement (due to the 24 frets)- is not the cause for the "thin" sound. (Does yours have a trem? That may be part of it, too.) The PRS Custom 22s and McCartys seem to be more "Les Paul-ish" sounding... perhaps the differences between those models and your Custom 24 could point the way towards what would make the difference for you, wether on your PRS, another PRS model, or an entirely different axe (like a Les Paul or Hamer or McIturf, etc.). daddyelmis- you sound like you just might be onto something there... the semi-D.I.Y. approach can work a lot of wonder for the buck, and give you something a bit tailored to your specific needs, and "diferent" from the usual, run-with-the-pack axes. Though some people might require more out-of-the-box, instant gratification. And sometimes this approach can lead to an endless quest of constant change, searchin'... and searchin'... sort of a static G.A.S. condition. paostby- you're gettin' picked on here, yet there is some real basic, simple truth to what you suggest. Just expensive for some, and you need to find the Les Paul that suits you, not just any. You might not care for mine, and I might not care for yours, or we might wind up trading- who knows! If I had the ca$h-money, I'd get a custom shop RI of some kind; probably two, since I love soapbar models, too! edgarallanpoe- man, I've loved some of your stuff! Especially Never Bet The Devil Your Head. Better advice has never been uttered, and wasted on the selective ears of such as Mr. Dammitt. Singular, queer, and profound. But be advised that The Strange Narrative of A. Gordon Pymn reads like a disjointed, alcohol and drug fueled ramble. Gee, I wonder why? Oh, and, eghemn, er, Hamers rule! Great guitars, and their Gibson inspired models are their strongest suit. SteveRB- really?!? Man, I've been ripped-off! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomaerovons.com Posted September 14, 2003 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite: [QB]Oh, I gotta jump in on this one... ! Tom- Maybe a simple pickup change could do it for you, if the guitar itself- and the neck-pickup placement (due to the 24 frets)- is not the cause for the "thin" sound. (Does yours have a trem? That may be part of it, too.)" Yeah, it has a trem. It just amazing how thin this guitar sounds. In jangly rock it's wonderful, and it gets a very cool Strat like thing, and the bridge pickup sounds like no other guitar. Really bell like and wonderful.....BUT.... Just not THICK. I was doing a cover of the girl group that has "What I Like About You" out now, and it starts with this clanky, thick, semi distorted riff, and with all the studio tricks in the world I couldn't get this guy to come near the fatness of the track. And that goes on day after day. This PRS would be great to keep on the side for those light, jangly things, but boy when you are covering alternative bands that are just riding those low strings, and doing lead breaks that are fat and sustained (Like Pillar's "Echelon") this thing is just out of it's league. And I'm a good player...been playing for decades and am very studio savy. So I really believe it's the guitar here. I love it's looks, love how fast it is to change strings, and it plays like a dream, but there is just plain more wood in a LP. Thanks for all the tips, guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69tele Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 "I do a lot of recording of covers for a company that hires me to do them." Get a real deal then..... Some Epis are good I have a Dot Deluxe and it's good....but real Gibsons are more expensive for a reason.... Ernie If in doubt leave it Out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgarallanpoe Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Again...I'll say it. Buy the Hamers and save a ton. I own several USA Hamers...I also own a Custom Shop Class 5 LP, a 58RI LP and a 62 LP/Sg Custom. My Hamer Artist pimp slaps my LPs around in every aspect. As embarrassing as it sounds...I keep my Pauls for one reason...they look great on stage. I have yet to play a USA Strat that can touch a USA Hamer Daytona or a USA Hamer T-62. A used USA Hamer Artist Custom can be had for around a $1000 and a Daytona is about $450. I would guess that those who are dismissing this have never owned a Hamer. Well...I own both...and I will take the Hamer every time, and it isn't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 'Poe- Who's dismissing? I think that Hamers are great guitars! (SteveRB is just kiddin' with ya... lotsa jokes around here, generally good-natured... ) A friend of mine that gigs frequently in a covers band will buy nothing but Hamers. He talks like the sales rep for Hamer, rarely missing a chance to gush about them to anyone and everyone. But even he will say that you have to play a few of even the same model and year to find "the one". And "the one" for him and "the one" for me may not be the same "one". Add to that the fact that somebody may require more than one "one" to cover their performence needs... But, in case I've obsured it, I'll say again that Hamers are great guitars! Most definitely the "real-deal" Hamer U.S.A. lines. And a custom ordered Hamer would be sweet, sweet, sweet! Oh, and Tom- You should definitely try out some PRS McCarty models, especially the single-cut models. Compare them to various Les Pauls and Hamers and the growing list of other Gibsonian marques out there, and you'll find your girl. By the way, what amps do you use? Do a search for James_Italy to see what he thinks about Gibsons and Les Pauls! Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomaerovons.com Posted September 15, 2003 Author Share Posted September 15, 2003 Originally posted by edgarallanpoe: Again...I'll say it. Buy the Hamers and save a ton. I own several USA Hamers...I also own a Custom Shop Class 5 LP, a 58RI LP and a 62 LP/Sg Custom. My Hamer Artist pimp slaps my LPs around in every aspect. As embarrassing as it sounds...I keep my Pauls for one reason...they look great on stage. I:Yeah, but I like new guitars. And the Hamer Artist I see on the net is at 2000, and is not a solid body guitar. I'm a little confused at how a guitar with F Holes can be compared to a log like a Les Paul;) Never owned a hollow body that didn't feedback. Will have to check 'em out though, I know that people like the Hamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddyelmis Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 I think the idea was sell the PRS and buy the guitars . . . I don't think the PRS will fetch the required amount to buy the Gibson LP and American Strat. Sure, if $$ were no object, the finest LP in the family would be mine . . . what am I saying, 5 or 6 of the finest LPs would be mine, along with another 1/2 dozen custom shop strats. But, alas, the damn lottery avoids me like the prom queen. www.ruleradio.com "Fame is like death: We will never know what it looks like until we've reached the other side. Then it will be impossible to describe and no one will believe you if you try." - Sloane Crosley, Village Voice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgarallanpoe Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 I wasn't talking about anyone in particular when I made that comment...but I know for a fact that there are a bunch of guys out there reading this and thinking..."No way that a Hamer can touch a Paul.". Believe it guys...its true. As for the F hole...here is the deal. The Artist is not a hollowbody. The F hole is for a tone chamber. The Tone chamber has a dramatic effect on the bottom end of the guitar. My Artist sounds MASSIVE..no BS. It does not sound like a ES-335, or other hollow bodies. The sound is thick and rich with a beautiful top end and a massive, thumping bottom. I have never had a problem with Feedback, and I play at some serious volumes. If you are dead set on a Paul...then get the Paul. But before you do...find a store that has them both...play them side by side with an open mind...I'll bet you pic the Artist...trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Aye yi yi, the lottery snubs prom queens, too? If ya need it pronto, get as much from your Custom 24 as you can, and seek out a good used LP or Hamer or something. Try out as many different guitars as you can, you never know what odd find has been waiting for you! But I would bet that you'll regret parting with the '24, and wish that you had it in the future. If you can at all find the way, keep it, and find an additional axe to cover your need for girth and grind. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomaerovons.com Posted September 15, 2003 Author Share Posted September 15, 2003 Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite: Aye yi yi, the lottery snubs prom queens, too? If ya need it pronto, get as much from your Custom 24 as you can, and seek out a good used LP or Hamer or something. Try out as many different guitars as you can, you never know what odd find has been waiting for you! But I would bet that you'll regret parting with the '24, and wish that you had it in the future. If you can at all find the way, keep it, and find an additional axe to cover your need for girth and grind.Interesting about that tone chamber. Gotta check it out. Yeah, the best is keeping the PRS and adding to the arsenal. I have NEVER sold a guitar that I didn't kick my butt later. I've had so many great guitars over the years and one by one, traded them, either because I needed money or was on some new kick. Good advice from all, thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Originally posted by tom@aerovons.com: I do a lot of recording of covers for a company that hires me to do them. I use a Paul Reed Smith standard 24, and though in general I love it's versatility, most of the time, I find this guitar is just plain too thin, whether it's doing a simple clean rhythm thing, or tuned down and doing metal. Thanks!If the Smith is not your guitar, find the one that is. I have a whole collection of guitars in the studio to provide different sounds... amps, too. Because versitility is often required. But first let me ask you, are you sure that it is the guitar, and not the amp? Maybe the chunk that you are looking for comes from a closed back cab of some variety, with a Marshall style amp or something? Now, should you buy mid-entry level guitars after owning a better axe? You probably won't be happy. I have a couple of cool cheap guitars, yet most players gravitate towards one of the Gibsons or Fenders. But the fact that you are being paid to do this indicates serious tax deductablility, to the tune of something like $25,000 or so this year on the Schedule 179 alone. So adequate equipment should be the least of your worries. Bill "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James-Italy Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite: Do a search for James_Italy to see what he thinks about Gibsons and Les Pauls!Kev, I was gonna stay outta this one since I'm so obviously biased, but since you gave me the perfect opening.... tom@aerovons.com- There is really only one thing to do- go try a few Epi's and Gibson LP's, and a few American/MIM Strats, and a few Hamers, and whatever else you think you may like. I wish you all the luck in finding it. Why not take your amp/guitar to the store and try out some different models side by side? Then you'll hve a much better idea about what is right for you. My advice would be NOT to buy anything that day (unless you find "The One"), but to come home and digest what you heard and felt. Then, calmly you can decide what to do. Gibsons always seem to be available used and you can save a lot of money from retail prices by finding a private seller. No one but you can decide if a Gibson LP is right for you or not. Or if it has "that" sound you are looking for. I would tell you that if you could afford it, you owe it to yourself to at least try them out. You may easily decide you prefer a Strat or a Hamer or whatever. On Saturdy I made the rounds and one of the local music store near my home had a '96 LP Studio Gem with P-90's for @$600. It was used and the back looked like it had been used as a drum pad by a troop of chimpanzes. Buy man o' man, it played sweet as hell and had that really cool P-90 tone. If I didn't already have one, I would have bought it on the spot. I considered it anyway, but I've already gotten a little carried away on buying guitars lately.... GIBSON's to me What is it about Gibson that causes so much controversy anyway? Guitars are just innanimate objects, yet they create such tensions between players sometimes. Amps don't ever seem to create the same rifts between us guitarists. But a guitar is so personal- like a girlfriend or a favorite song. Who can really say one guitar is better than another? No one! We can only relate to what our tastes favour. So many people bad-mouth Gibson's as being overpriced and that may be the case to them, but it is not to me. There are certain tecnical aspects that makes a Gibson LP more expensive to produce than some others, and then there is the name and marketing etc. I guess in a way we are also paying for that Gibson Mystique. But overpriced? Not to me. That is not the same as saying they are "better" than guitars that cost less. It's just saying that to me they are worth the money. For me there is a very obvious value to a good Gibson. Are there other guitars out there that offer as much or even more for less money? Probably. What I may like another may not, and vice-versa. I happen to really like Gibsons, but that doesn't mean that I don't respect other guitarists choices for other guitars. I don't want to belittle anyone's purchase by telling them that such and such is better. I'm happy with my Gibson's. Why can't others be happy with their guitars without blasting the others as overpriced or garbage or whatever? Shouldn't we buy guitars with our heart and not our head anyway? (As long as you're not going broke by the purchase!) What I'm trying to say is that I'm not in love with the Gibson tecnical aspects... I just love the way I feel when I play mine. Words are very difficult to find that can describe the sound a Gibson LP makes to me. And what can you say to do justice to the feeling you get when you strap it on and run your hands up and down the fretboard? I'm not eloquent enough to explain well the sheer joy I get from my LP's. But while I can't explain it, I wish every guitarist enjoys the same feeling when they play their favorite guitar. My Gear My Attempts at Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prague Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Originally posted by edgarallanpoe: "Get a real LP and a Strat" Oh boy... Get a USA Hamer Artist, and a USA Hamer Daytona...you will save about $1000 and get better guitars. Before you say anything, be sure you insult me personally, first. You did? Good for you. Now you're an expert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James-Italy Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 Don't want to jump in the middle of the fray here.... but since I didn't mention it before- I had a nice Hamer that I traded in on my LP Standard. It was a very good guitar with excellent workmanship, but I've never even thought about it since and never missed it. I wouldn't "dismiss" Hamers or any other guitars. Everyone should find what's right for them. And I repeat- What is right for me may not be right for everyone! Recommending something I like is cool, dissing people who have different tastes than mine is not. edgarallanpoe- Out of curiousity, do you really only play the Gibsons because of how they look on stage? If you get better sound out of your Hamers why not play them? Don't mean to be disrespectful or anything, I'm really just curious. My Gear My Attempts at Music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgarallanpoe Posted September 15, 2003 Share Posted September 15, 2003 My only point throughout this whole thread is that there are other guitars besides a LP and a Strat. Some of you need to get a little thicker skin... James_Italy Its true...I play the Pauls on stage because they look great. Unfortunately, Hamer doesn't make a single cut guitar that I like. The Monaco is cool, but not for me. I never said the Pauls sound bad...they don't...as a matter of fact, my Class5 sounds awesome. But...it cost $3000. My Hamer Korina Artist cost me $1200 and sounds and plays better...it just doesn't look as cool slung low and playing "Rock Steady" from Bad Company...LOL!!! FWIW...I do think that Gibson has a serious price to performance ratio. There is a local dealer by me who stocks a ton of Gibsons...it drives me crazy when I go down there and see all those Standards, and half of them have serious QC issues. He has a Classic that looks like a three year old did the frets and inlays...I shit you not...The inlays have more glue and slop than a $200 Korean guitar. That is inexcusable. All companies let a dud get by QC once in a while...but Gibson is pumping out too many guitars to keep their QC as high as their prices demand. JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
take5 Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Les Paul's are expensive...there's a reason...it's called HISTORY. They have the mojo...strap one one and try to deny it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 Screw everything, and just use what sounds and feels good to ya. If that means a stock Epi LP, and that Mex Strat, why not? If the producers are really hung up on what you should be using, it's their loss. Just a thought. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted September 16, 2003 Share Posted September 16, 2003 I know what you mean, 'Poe. My Classic Premium Plus (which I got an incredible, freak, lightning-strikes kinda deal on, technically used but just-shipped-new in condition, or I never woulda been able to afford it, or rationalize it's worth) is great overall, but had an undue amount of still tacky lacquer bleed on the binding and even some hardware. But I really liked the way it felt, sounded, and looked, and just scraped the binding off. Pretty sad, considering its then list price of $3600.00! For a bit more, the same shop had a PRS McCarty (the original, double-cut model) that was very nice... a totally pro axe. But, being a totally non pro, and haveing wanted a Les Paul sunburst since I was 14, I got the Les Paul. Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgarallanpoe Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 "Les Paul's are expensive...there's a reason...it's called HISTORY. They have the mojo...strap one one and try to deny it. " Ahhhh....and here I thought that quality of woods, fretwork, and attention to detail were what I should be looking for in a guitar...thanks for setting me straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolead Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I'd have to agree with the people that say follow your taste. Telling someone else what kind of guitar to buy is like telling someone who to marry. It's not our decision, it's yours. When you pick up a Gibson, disregard the history, style, or whatever, and play like you never have before. If it fits your sonic mojo or budget for that matter, then its a good find, and I would get one. Personally I've always loved Les Pauls, but I'm not a fan of their high price. I know why they cost so much, but as James-Italy and Kev already pointed this out, I won't continue pursuit into an irrelvant topic in your case. In regards to the Hamer and anything else, I don't know if they really are better of just a good bang for the buck, you'll have to decide. And if a modded-Epi does the job, than screw the Gibson-logoed headstock and buy what your heart desires. Shut up and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Yeah, what revolead said. Get your hands on some of these guitars in a shop and try 'em out, and buy what really speaks to you and gets the sounds you want. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I think you should buy the most expensive guitar you can find no matter what it sounds like. If nothing else, it'll impress the shit outta people who find out what you paid for it. Like a big ol' hollowbody floating humbucker jazz archtop for around 24 grand. Then play shred licks on it through a huge Marshall. Or, maybe George Harrison's rosewood "Let It Be" Tele that just fetched over 400K at auction. (tongue firmly planted in cheek) "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caevan O’Shite Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Originally posted by Tedster: "Or, maybe George Harrison's rosewood "Let It Be" Tele that just fetched over 400K at auction."Wow... if George Harrison had given me that- or really any- guitar, I don't think that I would have, or could have, sold it. Wasn't that Rosewood Tele in Delaney Bramlett's possession for a long, long time? George gave that to him. But, I can't really judge anybody else, or expect everyone to feel the same way about what I might find Sacred, and what I don't. Still, it surprises me a bit... Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do? ~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~ _ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaDik Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Originally posted by edgarallanpoe: "Les Paul's are expensive...there's a reason...it's called HISTORY. They have the mojo...strap one one and try to deny it. " Ahhhh....and here I thought that quality of woods, fretwork, and attention to detail were what I should be looking for in a guitar...thanks for setting me straight. history! aaahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! Great! You be da man EAP! Quality-wise, a Hamer is head and shoulders above the Gibson. If you gotta have the guitar your favorite rock star plays, by all means go with the Gibson. If you want a guitar made by a company that actually utilizes quality control, try the Hamer. Hear the difference for yourself. hmmmmmmmm............so I guess I can't deny the "mojo"........heehee............. BwanaDik Viva la bagatelle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 Originally posted by CaevanO'Shite: Originally posted by Tedster: "Or, maybe George Harrison's rosewood "Let It Be" Tele that just fetched over 400K at auction."Wow... if George Harrison had given me that- or really any- guitar, I don't think that I would have, or could have, sold it. Wasn't that Rosewood Tele in Delaney Bramlett's possession for a long, long time? George gave that to him. But, I can't really judge anybody else, or expect everyone to feel the same way about what I might find Sacred, and what I don't. Still, it surprises me a bit...Yeah, maybe Mr. Bramlett needed some cash. Geez...over 400K for a Tele. YIKES. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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