OT NYE Rant/ Booking "Agent"

[cnegrad]

On the NYC wedding circuit (and I'm talking at the very high end) , it's extremely rare that the band gets to eat. And when they do, it's almost never what the people eat; usually sandwiches or food left over from the cocktail hour. If you ask someone whether they'd rather eat or get a tip, the answer is always in favor of a tip. Musicians in my circle know that if they plan on being hungry, they better either eat before the gig, or bring some food in a brown bag to eat on a break. That's just the way it is on my gigs.

[wmp]

Originally posted by cnegrad:

it's almost never what the people eat

Dude, musicians are people!

 

I can't tell you anything about the regular wedding circuit around here. I've played a lot of weddings, but I never wore a tux or played the usual GB wedding stuff. Some folks don't want the traditional GB band and know who they want instead. All of my wedding gigs have been with bands that were well known locally.

 

If food's not part of the deal, fine. But I want to know about it up front because eating is important and eating free is good. When I was in the piano tuning business, I used to schedule the Italians with that in mind. Wassa madda you? You so skinny.

[cnegrad]

Dude, musicians are people!

Dude, thanks for stating the obvious. But no, not in NYC they're not. In the high-end NYC wedding band business, the band is third from the bottom of the totem pole, with the only exceptions being the wait staff and janitors. You go only where you're allowed to go, you load in when and where they tell you to, you play when they tell you to, you start, stop & pause when they tell you to, and without exception you don't go near the food or the bar unless specificly given permission to do so.

 

Yes, it's extremely restrictive; but if you understand the mindset and can function within their boundaries then you can make good money. Sure, you can choose to be very independant-minded, throw your weight around and do absolutely whatever the heck you want at your leisure, but I absolutely guarantee you that you won't last in that particular niche of the business. Over a period of time, after the powers-that-be see your professionalism and willingness to work within their parameters, then you start to garner respect, and only then will they begin to offer the band meals and/or drinks.

 

I know that this must seem shocking and represssive to those of you who gig in more relaxed situations, but this is simply the way it is here. If you can't deal with it, there's always the bar and lounge scene, but it doesn't pay nearly as well.

[wmp]

Sorry. I couldn't resist the setup.

 

I understand what you're talking about and I'm sure the scene is no different around here. I tend to shy away from those bands and they tend to shy away from me. No doubt, the guys who do that sort of work week after week make more money than I do.

 

All of the bands I work with are professional. On time, in tune, and they deliver. We're always polite, respectful, and bend over backwards to accomodate the client. If that means being invisible, great. That's the way I like it. If that means getting abused, well that's just not going to happen.

 

Jim got blind sided into doing a lot of extra work for almost no extra money. I'm just guessing he was tied to that place for 10 hours or more. And he can't get something to eat? In a bleepin' restaurant? That's abuse times two.

 

On the gig I mentioned, I had to leave at 6 am to get there, set up, and be clear by the ceremony. I suppose I should have pigged out, but silly me, I spent my time in the woods with an acoustic guitar warming up my voice because I had to sing most of the first two sets to cover the material they requested. At 5 pm, I haven't had a damn thing to eat all day. I kept up my end of the bargain and gave 'em an honest three sets of my best. They did not deliver on the chow, and that was in the contract. How is that different from me skipping first set?

 

I've already put in a 12 hour day, and I have a another three set gig, a couple of hours of driving, and four more moves of the rig before I get to sleep at 3 or 4 am. Am I somehow being unprofessional by refusing overtime so I can have one meal in a 22 hour work day? I think not.

 

I had to listen to an earful of "Do you know who I am?" from a drunken jackass while I packed and loaded. Do you know how badly I wanted to say "Yes, and I don't give a flying ****."? Not me. I'm a pro. "I'm sorry sir, I have another obligation."

 

It isn't reasonable to extrapolate "do absolutely whatever the heck you want" from what I said. True, I don't wear a tux and true, I wouldn't last long on the wedding circuit. No disrespect to those who wear tuxes and get treated like appliances, but it's not for me. That doesn't make me unprofessional.

 

The afore mentioned was my worst wedding gig experience, and it was still an excellent day by any measure. It could have been perfect if bonehead wasn't a bonehead, but that's not my problem. I had two great gigs that paid great with a lovely prime rib in between.

 

I'm fortunate to have played as many weddings as I have. Most of the rest were just perfect. We only got those gigs because the clients already really liked the band. The party was always a blast to play. We were treated like family at most of them, and they were often very generous with tips. Sometimes doubling or better the already sick money we got paid. I'm just guessing that doesn't describe the typical wedding gig when the powers that be are selling you like an entre as part of a wedding package.

 

Maybe I just look at things backwards. Everybody gets my respect automatically. One has to earn my disrespect.

[cnegrad]

WMP,

 

All of the bands I work with are professional...Am I somehow being unprofessional by refusing overtime so I can have one meal in a 22 hour work day? I think not...No disrespect to those who wear tuxes and get treated like appliances, but it's not for me. That doesn't make me unprofessional.

I don't know what you're responding to with these statements. Nothing I said accused you or anyone else of being unprofessional.

 

We're always polite, respectful, and bend over backwards to accomodate the client.

Pleasing the caterer, hotel managerial staff and party planners is equally important. Longevity in this business depends on your relationships with these people.

 

If that means getting abused, well that's just not going to happen.

I guess it all depends on your definiton of abuse. If you can comply with all the parameters going in, you won't get abused. Understand what they want, don't cross the line, perform well, and you'll be considered for future work. If your definition of abuse means not getting fed, then don't go into this business.

 

Jim got blind sided into doing a lot of extra work for almost no extra money.

Jim made mistakes by not speaking up about the money, or pushing harder for getting his agreed to meal at an earlier point in the event.

 

At any given event in my circles, no one cares how much or how hard you've worked prior to that gig or how much you've eaten or warmed up. That's not their problem. You show up, you play and you take your breaks when you can. The only exception to this is when you have food included in the contract. Under those circumstances, you speak to the banquet manager beforehand and coordinate when and where you'll be eating. Before you go to perform the set prior to your prearranged meal, you mention to him again that after this set, you'll be in your prearranged spot awaiting your meal.

 

No disrespect to those who wear tuxes and get treated like appliances

As I said, you don't get verbally abused as long as you stay within the restricitions of the business.

 

I don't wear a tux and true, I wouldn't last long on the wedding circuit.

As you say....

[Aidan]

This is why I now always send a contract to clients, which sets out exactly what services will be provided. Provision of food (where time appropriate) and soft drinks (always) is part of the contract, and it also is clear about the upper limit on performance time (in my case, three hours including two short breaks) included in the price. Extended performances may be arranged on the night but only at an hourly rate, payable by cash in advance of the performance starting.

 

Of course, none of this absolutely guarantees that you will get fed and watered, but it does mean you have at least one leg to stand on when you begin arguing about it!

[keyman_sam]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

By the way, I took a good friend's wife there to dinner after they had gotten divorced. She was beautiful though.

Maybe you should change your name to Dave Horney.

 

 

Couldn't resist.

[BluesKeys]

Just for the record I was remiss in not negotiating the price for 2 1/2 hours of playing from the get go. I was blind sided in that the extra time was added in bits. My guitar player/booking agent was no where to be found so there was no one for me to go to other than the owner. I didn't think that would be wise.

 

As far as the food goes, I was in the guitar players face after our first set with the band. I had no chance before since he disapeared and by the time I finished the solo gig I made a bathroom stop and stepped on stage with the band. I did get three shimp but that just made the shark angrier.

 

I have done both styles of weddings that cnegrad and wmp speak of. It is more fun to play gigs that people treat the band as humans and not THE HELP. But I have worked freight elevators through the kitchen and eaten a sandwich provided while the "guests" ate prime rib. And those jobs tend to pay better.

 

On this note a friend of mine has named his band THE HELP for this very reason.

 

http://www.thehelponline.com/

 

Listen to Three Minutes Past Midnight if you like the blues.

[cnegrad]

Jim,

As far as the food goes, I was in the guitar players face after our first set with the band. I had no chance before since he disapeared and by the time I finished the solo gig I made a bathroom stop and stepped on stage with the band.

Fair enough; you got taken advantage of.

I did get three shimp but that just made the shark angrier.

Now THAT'S funny!

[BluesKeys]

Quote

Fair enough; you got taken advantage of.

 

Yea I was "shot at and missed shit at and hit."

 

Life goes on and you learn from it or you keep making the same mistakes, Your choice.

[wmp]

Jim made mistakes by not speaking up about the money ...

No, Jim got blind sided. He showed up expecting one thing and had extra work thrown at him last minute without the opportunity to properly negotiate the details. This guy took advantage of Jim's good nature and trust and hosed him. I can't see it any other way.

 

or pushing harder for getting his agreed to meal at an earlier point in the event.

No, food is important. If Jim got roped into a long unexpected solo set, the fellow with the rope should have thought about Jim's dinner while he was eating his own. Especially knowing that he was about to play three sets with him. That's aggressively inconsiderate, against one's own best interests. This takes a special kind of jerk. Then he ices it with the insulting chump change and the GFO. WAFA

 

This guy is a world class slime. Big smile, warm and friendly, good at getting other people to work. I've met many incarnations of him. If you think his timing is an accident, you're mistaken.

 

I have a particular distaste for wealthy folks who play for fun and expect me to do the same. I'm just guessing this wasn't a sick money gig.

 

After re-reading the details, it seems like Jim found out about the short money after getting the bum's rush. If so, that'd be the capper for me. I'd collect by any means necessary and burn that bridge.

[Marzzz]

Jim, what would you have considered fair compensation (assuming you were also fed dinner)?

[BluesKeys]

Marzz, If I lived in Philly and was offered the gig on a week night it would have been in the $150 to $200 range. Since it was NYE I would have asked for $400 to $500. Especially knowing this is a 4 star restaurant and they seat about 500 people.

 

I understand they had 700 people come through at $150 a head. That's a lot of buckeroos. I know the overhead was tremendous that night, but I think $500 would have not broken the bank.

[BluesKeys]

UPDATE ON A HORSES ARSE......

 

I am Writing this because KARMA has a way of biting you back.

 

Story line,

 

Thursday Feb 8th

Place: Orlando, Fl

Gig: Corporate Conference

 

This is an unbelievable time line of events. The person in question who I will call Tom (since that is his real name) who shafted me on the NYE gig, calls our lead (chic) singer at 10am Feb 8th as we are boarding the plane from RDU to Orlando, FL. Now she lets it go to voice mail because she doesn't want to deal with him at that moment. When she checks her voice mail (upon arrival), he has instructed her that is is not convenient for him to bring his guitar along for this trip and she needs to contact the back line folks and rent a guitar for him. We get to the venue and inform the back line guys we need a guitar. The guy says, "It will take me 2 hrs to get it since it is clear on the other side of Orlando." He also states it will be $100 for rental, and we agree to that.

 

Well, Tom (or the hass ole) shows up and starts complaining that he has no guitar for sound check. We inform him that in fact he WILL not have a guitar for another 1 1/2 hours. So he is already huffy when we get to the condo we rented. He sees there are 3 bedrooms and 5 beds and counts six of us and goes on a rampage. "Why wasn't I informed of this? Who made this decision? The chic singer informs him he got ALL the emails about the accommodations and instead of paying $700+ for rooms we did the condo for $200 so we could take home more money. Well, he is a retired big wig with this Corp. and promptly storms out of the condo and goes to the conference and commandeers a room.

 

THE GIG: He knows none of the new material (never listened to the CD he was sent) and can't play half the material we have been doing for the last year. He SUCKED in all honesty.

 

THE BLOW UP:

At the end of the gig he finds out the rental on the guitar is $100 which he needs to pay to the back line company since we have already paid in advance for the initial rental. WELL, he goes BALISTIC and rants for at least 30 mins about how we should take it out of the gig money. How we are nickle and dime-ing him and since I had keyboards paid for he should have his guitar paid for by the band. (Note the bass and other guitarist brought their axes.) So this guy makes such a stink the BACK LINE Company hands him the $100 back and says I don't need this that bad. It was ugly and Tom left in a huff without a word to us other than he thought he was done wrong.

 

THE END OF TOM:

We get back from Orlando and 4 days later Tom sends out an email stating he is quitting the band. Since we are all in NC and he is in Philly and can't make rehearsals. Plus he has lost interest in playing guitar at the moment and feels it is best to part now. He still feels that we were wrong on principle trying to make him pay for his guitar rental but that has nothing to do with him quitting

 

THE KARMA:

 

After some mix up from the Corp on our check it looks like the entire check will be sent to me to distribute. I will have to make checks out to every member of the band. He has not read his emails and probably doesn't have a clue what the payout is so I have an opportunity to recoup my lost pay for NYE.

 

THE QUESTION:

 

1. Do I take a portion of his gig money for my work on NYE?

 

 

2. How much money?

 

I am sure I will never see this man as long as I live and I have reason to believe he is trying to sabotage our relationship with this Corp.

 

I have to give this some thought but I can't help but enjoy the irony of it.

[JMcS]

My suggestion is to pay him his fair share for the last gig. Cheating him out of it doesn't balance the books, it would just make you the last cheat in line. If you pay him his share you will always remember it as you did the right thing. I'm no expert on Karma, but I think this would put some good karma in your "karma bank". And, like you said, karma can come back and bite you in the ass.

 

I can't remember or find the exact words now, but there is a prayer for people who feel someone (unjustly/incorrectly) believes we/you have done them wrong. It goes something like this:

Dear Lord, please turn the heart of those who feel I have wronged them. If you can't turn their heart, please turn their ankle so I may recognize them by their limp. Amen.

[wmp]

1. Do I take a portion of his gig money for my work on NYE?

 

Absolutely.

 

2. How much money?

 

Whatever you think the number ought to be. Be fair and don't short change yourself.

 

You seem to be too much of a gentleman to give him the spanking he deserves. I'm not. Tell me when and where I can find him with 50 miles of me and I'll tenderize his face for you. It'll only cost you a beer, and only if I make it to NC to collect.

 

 

 

 

[cnegrad]

I'm no expert on Karma,

Maybe you should ask Stephen Kay what you should do?

 

but I think this would put some good karma in your "karma bank"

So you can afford an Oasis. :grin:

[cnegrad]

Hmmm...The emoticons are suddenly not working.

[cnegrad]

Jim,

 

INHO, do whatever you agreed to with Tom. Take the high road.

[BluesKeys]

Jim,

 

INHO, do whatever you agreed to with Tom. Take the high road.

 

Cnegrad, I know you are right and I have given this some thought. As others have said, I don't want to be the last one to take advantage of the situation.

 

I think he will get his in the end and it's not up to me to help him get it.

 

I will be able to sleep at night knowing I am not as conniving as he is.

 

I just can't believe the nerve or self importance of some people.

 

rant at rest