Copying great organ (piano) solos??

[ELLIOTT S]

Does a program exist , that when you play a chopped portion of an organ solo (off a CD or MP3), that it writes out the notes that were played. I have slowed down some solos in many different Sound processing programs, but I can not decipher what was played. Obviously the style or basics, were more than I knew in simple rock. Could have been a standard blues run or jazz theme with a different basis of music. @ good examples, Organ solo on Time of the season (zombies) or Oye como va , Santana.

 

Any tips ?

[mate stubb]

Not that I know of. Computers do not have the discrimination power of a good set of musically trained ears.

 

Your best route is to do ear training. Once you can hear a pitch and find it on your keyboard, your slow-down method of analyzing solos will work for you.

 

Another thing you can do is learn the various blues scales, basic bebop jazz scales, etc. and be able to play them in all the different keys. Your ear will be training itself as you practice those, and you will start hearing those scales in the solos you are trying to analyze.

 

As to the two examples you mention:

 

She's Not There is the more difficult of the two IMO to make out. Rod is playing a lot of chromatic stuff and the rhythm is fairly choppy.

 

Oye Como Va uses blues scales, and achieves its interest from the unusual way that Gregg phrases his stuff - he's often playing Carlos Santana type guitar lines on organ.

[ELLIOTT S]

Its funny how you read my mind, I meant to mention Time of the Season, by Zombies, but I was also thinking she s not there, and I wrote the wrong song./.please give me a few examples of a blues scale, in C G or A just for example/ i will read up them when I see what you mean., But I think I may understand.

Thank you

[burningbusch]

Hal Leonard's Classic Rock Note-for-Note is worth looking into. It includes Oye Como Va and Green Eyed Lady (no Time of the Season). Full transcriptions of the organ solos. Seems to be very accurate. They do have Light My Fire in the key of Abm (I've always know it in Am). But again, it includes the full transcription of the organ solo. There are other series: Pop/Rock, R&B, Billy Joel, etc.

 

Hal Leonard Classic Rock Note-for-Note

 

Busch.

[stepay]

Originally posted by ELLIOTT S:

Its funny how you read my mind, I meant to mention Time of the Season, by Zombies, but I was also thinking she s not there, and I wrote the wrong song./.please give me a few examples of a blues scale, in C G or A just for example/ i will read up them when I see what you mean., But I think I may understand.

Thank you

Elliott,

 

There are two "Blues" scales you should know:

 

Major Blues Scale - play over major chord progressions.

 

Minor Blues Scale - play over major and minor chord progressions. This is the one people usually mean if they just say "the blues scale".

 

I'll give you an example of each, and then you can transpose that to other keys.

 

Major Blues Scale (1, 2, b3, 3, 5, 6) in C - C, D, Eb, E, G, A

 

Minor Blues Scale (1, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7) in A - A, C, D, Eb, E, G

 

Notice that they are the same notes, just one is for major chord progressions in the key of C and the other is for major or minor chord progressions in the key of A.

 

Good luck.

[ELLIOTT S]

Thank you for the time you took to explain this.

 

PS what is the 1, 2 b3 or b7 that you mention.

[JeffLearman]

In C:

 

C = 1

D = 2

E flat = 3b

...

 

Get it? This is crucial to learning music theory and being able to communicate with other musicians, without worrying about which particular key the song is played in. (The singer will usually say "Can you play that in a lower key?" anyway!)

[ELLIOTT S]

Thanks. I studied theory, but I never saw it represented this way in Block format , that 1 + first note or that 3rd or 7th were flatted, it was always written out. many thanks. once i try this later and hear the sound I will have a better feel for it

[Bob Stiffler]

Elliott:

 

I have transcribed quite a bit of music from an audio file. I record the audio file in to Sonar 3, Studio Edition and then slow it down. I then make Sonar loop on the 8 or 10 notes I need, (maybe a measue or two) and play my keyboard along with the Sonar loop. I then notate the 10 notes I have just learned into Finale on my other computer.

 

It is slow, but usually quite successful.

 

Bob Stiffler

[delirium]

try "trasnscribe" tool. You can slow down the piece

and filter out what you interested in.

very good tool.

 

you still have to use your ears though (fortunatelly)

[stepay]

Elliott,

 

I see learjeff answered your question about the numbering system. Unless you're playing with a bunch of musicians who always use sheet music, you really need to understand theory spoken about in this way. Seems like you get it.

 

Have fun playing that music. Santana is fun to play.

[Moon Zero Two]

There is an amazing program out there that does exactly what you want it to - It is called Transcribe - I think it is by seventhstring - when I get home I will look for it.

 

Get it. It is the most amazing transcription program I have ever used - it will not write everything out for you but if you highlight a section of a tune it will display the harmonics on a keyboard - frightfully good.

 

I use it all the time - everyday - great for figuring out solos but even better at figuring out hard to hear chords. can't recommend it enough - everyone should own it!!

[NYKeys]

Go Go Google Go

 

 

Click here

[ELLIOTT S]

What an amazing group here . Thanks to all of you . I have some work to do .. I have slowed it down with the "Audacity " program which keeps the pitch, but with the bass cymbals and guitars in the way, the fast slurs of Greg Rolie are very hard to determine, even on pitch. I did have the TASCAM TD1 but it was too hard to use. as it would not combine slow and maintain pitch and key, it was one or the other. But , transcribe actually sounds interesting.

 

I own in addition to the Korg TR, my old Crumar, a Hammond A100 +leslie, and my little red Nord Electro. Just have to bring my talent up to the level of these toys.

[The Real MC]

Three tricks to learning solos by ear:

 

1) don't play the song loud. Seriously.

 

2) cut back the frequencies to isolate the instrument. If you're learning an organ solo, cut back the bass so you reduce the bass guitar and drums. Cut back the treble to reduce the guitar.

 

3) vary the playback speed, slow it down.

[stepay]

Elliott,

 

That's some nice gear you have. A piece of me hates you just a little bit.

[delirium]

Originally posted by ELLIOTT S:

Just have to bring my talent up to the level of these toys.

yeah...that one we cannot buy it

[Moon Zero Two]

Transcribe has two other great functions: eq and balance. EQ out the bass - set the mix hard to the Gregg Rollie side and you are good to go.

 

Transcribe also slows down to 10% without changing pitch. And you can loop problems parts. Love this program.

[Dave Pierce]

Elliot,

 

This is a bit off your topic, but I highly recommend that you start to think of intervals in terms of numbers. I can't emphasis enough how useful this is for two things:

 

1) communicating changes to other musicians

 

2) transposing

 

If you think of the bass notes of, for example, Oye Como Va as A and D, then anytime you need to transpose you'll need to do some mental arithmetic to figure out what the new notes are. But if you think of those notes as I and IV in the key of A, then you can play it in any key -- it's still I and IV. It takes a while to get used to what all the "numbers" are in every key, but once you've made that mental shift, learning by ear and transposing will be oh-so-much simpler.

 

Oye is a great solo for learning percussive organ techniques, BTW. Have fun with that!

 

--Dave

[Joe Muscara]

Speaking of Oye Como Va, see the beginner lesson 2

 

http://www.keyboardmag.tv/

 

(I just thought it was funny to see that used when it was being discussed here.)

[Moonglow]

I believe the "Emerson Lake & Palmer" Greatest Hits collection has the organ solo from Karn Evil 9 (1st Impression Part II) and the piano solo from "Take a Pebble" transcribed. Never really dug into it yet, so I can not comment on the accuracy of these transcriptions.

[ELLIOTT S]

Stepay Learjeff, Joe, Dave. Thank you thank you. i have been playing alone too long. I worked throught the 2 blues scales last nite in a few different keys, and its like my eyes popped out of my head. All of a sudden there was that extra note that made things fit.

When I studied accordion and theory 37 years ago, this music was not really out there for 8 year olds, so we learned the major and minor triads etc. The accordion , at the time was reserved for Scottish , Polish, German and Jewish music, which was mainly major minor. .I just brought that forward to Rock music, and took a heavy influence from the Bach Styles of Procol Harum Solos, Shine On Brightly, Quite rightly so, Salad days, Whiter shade of pale, repent walpurgis, very straight but beautiful

 

I cannot thank all of you and the forum enough . Wish I was younger.

[Joe Muscara]

Your never too old to learn, Elliott. I still am, and I get older every day!

[Dave Horne]

There are CD players that can slow down the information and they are made expressly for musicians. If you call a big music store they will know what you mean.

 

When I want to learn something or do a record copy, I just play the material over and over and over again before I even try to figure it out at the keyboard. I try my best to figure it out in my head. I might listen to the material dozens of times so I have it engrained in my memory. It may not be the most efficient way to do this but that's how I do it.

[stepay]

Elliott,

 

Ah yes, those wonderful blues scales. When I first learned that minor blues scale (at age 23), I wanted to smack all the traditional piano teachers I ever had. How could they not have taught me that or the pentatonic scales? Pretty much I'm sure they didn't know. Had to have a blues guitarist teach me those scales -- he was the best piano teacher I ever had even though he doesn't play piano. I guess "music" teacher is more appropriate.

[Moonglow]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

.....When I want to learn something or do a record copy, I just play the material over and over and over again before I even try to figure it out at the keyboard......

Excellent advice, Dave. When I have a song to learn, I pop it in the CD player in my car and play it over and over for a couple of days (e.g., driving to and from work, running errands) before even sitting down at the piano.

[delirium]

Originally posted by Moonglow:

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

.....When I want to learn something or do a record copy, I just play the material over and over and over again before I even try to figure it out at the keyboard......

Excellent advice, Dave. When I have a song to learn, I pop it in the CD player in my car and play it over and over for a couple of days (e.g., driving to and from work, running errands) before even sitting down at the piano.

don't you have enough of that song after these few days?

I would have....

[ELLIOTT S]

I have done that, and then when you finally do get to hear it slowed down, and you say, ah , thats how it worked. The greatest eye opener for me was trying "in Vain" to learn the opening organ notes in Bostn's "foreplay" it is a triplet of EBC ECD, but very fast. A" I don't know weather this can be played continuously with one hand , or if it was the left hand in conjunction with more on the right, or a n electronic loop. As the effect had a way of masking all the other subtle notes, .When I finally heard it slowed down iI was astounded.

 

Like to get your feel on the above piece, and how it may have been done.

[Joe Muscara]

Tom Scholz of Boston was very proud of being old school as far as stuff like using real instruments, no synths nor sequencers. The Foreplay intro is unlikely to be a loop.

[mate stubb]

Lots of people on this forum can play the intro to Foreplay. I played it live for several years. It's not tricky or hard, just requires some dexterity and practice.

 

It's in the key of Bb, and doesn't have any of the notes in it that you mention, sorry!

 

The opening right hand arpeggio triplets are:

 

Db F Ab Eb Ab C Db F Ab Eb Ab C

 

(repeat while the left hand descends in whole notes under a held Bb):

 

Bb Bb/Ab Bb/G Bb/Gb Bb/F Bb/Eb Bb/Db Bb/C Bb/Bb

 

Then it goes into the next part, which I leave as an exercise for the reader...

 

(I always hated that when my chemistry or calculus instructors used that line on us!)