Vintage or Digital?....

[Spaceboy92]

Yet another board selection question. An opinionated one, of course.

 

Right now I have an s90, and that is all i use live. That needs to change. In the true rock and roll spirit, i need more. More stuff, and more volume.

 

I'm leaning heavily towards a nord electro. Good organ, good rhodes, good clav, lightweight, etc. Biggest complaint is the lack of actual drawbars. This is okay, for such instances, i have a Korg CX-3. Decent organ sound.

 

I also have a Hohner D6 (it needs a little TLC, but it should be good to go pretty quick). That solves my clav problem.

 

Problem is, I keep thinking... "why not forget the electro, and use the cx-3, d6, and pick up a real rhodes for much cheaper?"

 

Obviously i understand the reliability, weight, and minor space issues. But this just seems so much.... cooler??

 

For ampage, I'm using a KC550, and will be getting a Motion sound (probably the Pro-3tm, since unless i decide to hold out for the newer model that is supposedly coming out). If i go real rhodes, i'll have to get a fender amp (which would also support the clav). And somewhere waaayyyy down the road, when all is good, i plan to throw a microkorg in the mix. Just cus they are so COOL (and so cute!). (i did not just say that....)

 

This sounds like a headache, pretty much cus it is. But then, don't we all just like talking about keyboards??

[jfhyde]

Spaceboy: Speaking from experience, I hauled a Rhodes around for a decade in the last century, gigging with a real rhodes and a real D6 will get old real quick. Hey, its a beautiful thing, vintage gear, but even when it was new, ie, the last century, it broke down constantly, never cut thru, and at the end of the night, if you don't have roadies, was a major PITA. Just my two cents, get the electro, leave the vintage gear home.

 

John

 

can't believe you sold the B3....

[Dick Ward MP Hall of Fame]

Ooh, microkorg has a vocoder too!

 

Seriously though, from what I've heard of these guys, Rhodes are not fun at all to gig with. I would reccomend avoiding it. Get something easy that you can move around without trouble and is gonna be reliable for you.

 

"10/10 for style but minus several million for good thinking, eh Trillian?"

[Spaceboy92]

had to happen.... i wasn't doing anything with it cus i basically don't have any means of transporting it to gigs (especially with a leslie!!), so i had to free up the cash. I'll get back around to it eventually....

 

And... a rhodes wont cut through?

[MikeT156]

Rhodes don't cut through rock groups. Too mellow. It's fine if you play in a jazz trio with an bass player and a drumming with brushes. Otherwise.....use an electronic version, your choice. I have a 1979 Suitcase Rhodes and it remains in my music room. I use a Yamaha Motif ES8 for all my Rhodes sounds and it's great. Never needs tines replaced, never goes out of tune, and cuts through just fine. Leave the Rhodes in the studio.

 

 

Mike T.

[jfhyde]

And... a rhodes wont cut through?

Rhodes was the muddiest beast out of the factory, a third party mod came out, dyno-my-piano, that replaced the passive factory preamp with an active one, I believe it had a battery in it. If you can find one with that built in you're one step ahead. Other more modern option is the speakeasy mod for fender rhodes. http://www.speakeasyvintagemusic.com/vintagetubepreamps.htm.

 

John

[danimuschi]

????????

 

am i the only "idiot" stupid enough to tour with a suitcase rhodes, a minimoog and a clavinet D6!?!?

 

10 years ago when i was 16 i swapped my roland

D-50 and ensoniq VFX for a Hammond + Leslie and a MiniMoog... the best thing that i've ever done! i don't understand that whole thing about rhodes being unreliable and stuff... i've spent more money fixing my nordlead2 and kurtzweil k2000rs and triton than i have on my vintage keys... the rhodes you can basicaly fix yourself and i can adjust/calibrate the mini myself to! i'm not the techy kinda dude, but i wanna be able to do some small fixes to my equipment!

 

true, for rock'n'roll a rhodes is maybe not the sound you're after, but then again, maybe it is...

 

i'd say: go for the vintage stuff and buy a flightcas with wheels for your rhodes and you're good!

 

i've replaced less than 5 tines on my rhodes and i've played 200+ gigs on it and i don't play it soft! the clav is a champ... replced the hammertips and keep a spare battery! minimoog has been with me across europe. in and out of airplanes handle by me and by roadies... had to get it fixed a couple of times, but i only payed what equals to 150 usd to get it fixed!

 

you'll not regret getting a real instrument as opposed to a clone! -maybe it's a bit more work, but i's ALOT more fun...

 

Daniel

[jfhyde]

hey, if you mention roadies you're automatically disqualified from this topic.

 

John, with no roadies, no groupies either.

[mate stubb]

Space, for rock if you want real vintage, you want a wurli, not a rhodes.

 

I agree that once you get a vintage instrument into good shape, it can be gigged with reasonable care for a long time. At one point I carried a rhodes, clav, Hammond, and 2 synths.

 

At this point, I'd carry an Electro personally.

[DanS]

Originally posted by danimuschi:

????????

 

am i the only "idiot" stupid enough to tour with a suitcase rhodes, a minimoog and a clavinet D6!?!?

Well.....

[captainmri]

Back when I roadied in college I set up all kinds of cool stuff from Jupiters, Emulators, Prophets,clavs, ALL of it. The Yamaha cp-70 and Rhodes were plentiful as well. That was when all that stuff was new. I'd be afraid something would happen to an older instrument like that gigging with it. Many people gig with vintage gear but it's not the most dependable. It wouldn't be so bad if I knew how to fix all that stuff. I'd rather just play. That's why I've got a fence...the old analogs stay in the yard.

[lowerhodes]

In my opinion your S90 has better Rhodes sounds than the Electro (I own both) so I would not get one for that purpose. I also am an idiot as I own four Rhodes'. That said, I agree with everyone who has posted on this subject.

[danimuschi]

i wanna start an "idiot club" for people like me that insists on playing real instruments...

 

on the real though... i don't understand why people have a fear of vintage instruments... you can gig with them without a problem if have good flightcases (as you should get for all your gear). i carry my fender in a flightcase on wheels. just roll it right in and unpacking is a breeze... just get someone to help me put it ontop of the speaker! yeah it's heavy, but the places i play, there is always stage hands to help me get the stuff from the car to the stage, and if i don't have a roadie, i'll just set up myself... no problem!

 

Daniel

[RABid]

I did the Rhodes, Hohnar, Hammond, Moog, Arp bit in the early 80's. I am NOT going back to those headaches.

 

Robert

[Erik Norlander]

Hi all,

 

I have toured and recorded with lots of vintage gear: Hammonds, Rhodes, Mellotrons, Moogs, etc. NEVER in my experience have I found that these instruments have a problem cutting through in a loud rock band environment.

 

On the other hand, I have found the digital stuff to have a much harder time cutting through. I've even seen it with guitar amps, tube vs. modeling technology. To me, the analog stuff has more punch, more dynamics, more presence in a live situation. YMMV.

 

My hypothesis is that the digital gear is much more even across the frequency spectrum, and therefore it blends in better. The analog gear has peaks and valleys in its spectrum that make it sound not as smooth but more punchy, more aggressive, often more "out of control" (in a good way). It doesn't necessarily make one better than the other, but I definitely experience a distinct difference between the analog and digital gear.

 

To shine a positive light on the digital world, I've often found the guitar amp modeling technology to be great for recording -- it seems to have a sort of companding effect that gives you a very even track. Often that's what you want, and of course, often it's not.

 

We can't always carry around vintage analog gear. I've done a lot of fly-in gigs where I can only bring a couple of keyboards and a small rack. In those cases, the digital gear is certainly the necessary choice.

 

In those situations, I've tried to take what I have learned about the vintage (dare I say "real") instruments and bring out those qualities in the digital emulators. And it can sound really, really good! Distortion is a great place to start. Not necessarily head-shearing Nigel Tufnel distortion, but just some kind of non-linear compression or occasional squaring off of the tone. Hey ... Hammond, Tron, Rhodes, Wurly ... they all do that!

 

I've also had some nice success with adding a little bit of analog effects processing into the mix. For example, a lot of times I can't bring my Hammond on tour. But I have a Korg CX-3 and a Roland VK-8m, and I run them through a Motion Sound R3-147, their rack mounted miked rotating speaker box. It's 4RU and fits in the overhead compartment of an airplane in an SKB case (yes, I get looked at funny when I go through security, but happily, no rubber gloves yet!). The Motion Sound add not only the dimension of a real spinning horn, it also adds some nice overdrive that makes the organ come to life. Also, in the case of both the CX-3 and VK-8m, they've done some nice things like give you control over key click and generator leakage. I have those elements turned way up, and they really add life, particularly through the Motion Sound unit.

 

Another thing I do is use a Mutron phasor live (either a racked Bi Phase or a Phasor II pedal). I run things like digital strings and voices through it, and of course also sampled clav and electric piano. Again, it really adds a nice dimension. To my ears, anyway.

 

In the meanwhile, the groupies will be moving my gear, and I'll be partying with the roadies in the back.

 

Willy Wonka: "Wait, reverse that."

 

Best regards,

Erik

[rappa29]

I can barely take moving my Suitcase 73 from one side of the room to the other ,let alone loading and unloading it into my CRV!

 

I really enjoy playing it, sounds great, feels great and all that, but do not miss it when I show up at the gig with my E2 over my shoulder!

 

I've also had some nice success with adding a little bit of analog effects processing into the mix.

Great tip! I've tried to do this as well and Speakeasy has a pretty good business going of creating preamps for this sole purpose. Kind of a digital\retro approach.

 

I currently run my E2 through an old Tubeworks Blue Tube preamp, then through the tube channel of a KT80.

 

In the past I've run NanoPiano EPs and Clav through Dunlop Wah and\or Snarling Dog Wah and my VK7 through a MS PRO3T.

 

I'm always checking the Pawn Shops for old stomp boxes, rack effects, etc to experiment with to take some of the 'gleen' off of the digital stuff.

[danimuschi]

adding analog fx is a great way of adding texture and vibe to a digital sound...

 

-i'm not an analog purist at all! i use Triton with MOSS, jv-1080, Kurtzweil K2000rs, Nordlead2, Alesis Micron ect., but i try to use them for what they are best at! i don't wanna play clav on my triton, when i have a real clav ect.

 

maybe it's just me, but i play FAR better Rhodes on a Rhodes than on some emitating peice of junk! you could compare it to a bass player not haveing a proper amp... he'll get through the gig and it'll sound like music, but if there's no bottom end and no big sound from the bass, he won't be able to find his spot in the music and the other musicians won't feel him the same way as if he had a propper sound...

 

you see where i'm heading!?

 

Daniel