Ta-Da.... Lost S90ES sounds from Motif ES & MO8

[HomeAmateur]

For those of you that dont already have them.

 

In a small gesture of appreciation of all the help and information I have recieved on this forum. I have done the homework and put together all of the sounds from the ES8 and MO8 that are NOT in the S90ES. (Altough its possible there are a few duplicates, and possible one or two missing)

 

From the ES8 there was enough to completly fill User Bank 1 and 2 and I actually didnt even have room for about 8 sounds, which 7 of them were AC pianos, but who cares, the S90es are better anyhow. I have them in All Voice format and in Editor format.

 

From the MO8

There is the entire Pre4 bank which is new plus 2 sounds on user 2.

 

If you would like them, feel free to pm me or email me.

 

I just did this moments ago so I havent had time to preview all of the sounds as of yet.

 

note: For those of you that may feel this borders piracy. It is not. All of these sounds are free from Yamaha and included in there voice editors which are all for free download from Yamaha. All I did was compile them.

 

 

Dan

[Jazzwee]

Hi HomeAmature, since I've never played an ES8, could you summarize what the differences are?

Thanks.

 

Jazzwee

[HomeAmateur]

Hmmm, well, Im not sure if your asking the 'functional differences' or the voice bank differences ???

 

Functionally, the S90ES, apart from not having the sequencer and the sampler that the Motif ES8 has is basically the same. Although the S90ES has a MUCH improved piano sample over the ES8 and the MO8, which are the same.

 

Voice bank wise, the S90ES is missing approx. 256 programed sounds from the Motif ES. ( both of these boards basically have the same sound engine, apart from sampled sounds in which only the ES6/7/8 can do.

 

All I have done is put togheter the sounds that are NOT on the S90ES which are on the Motif ES and the MO.

 

I hope that answeres your question.

[Jazzwee]

Hi HomeAmature,

 

I already have an S90ES. My question is that you implied that something was missing (which you state now as 256 sounds).

 

What's your assessment of what they took out? Are they like a specific family of sounds? Are the missing sounds significant compared to what's in the S90ES?

 

I don't have the specs handy but are the number of slots in the voice banks greater in the S90ES vs ES? In other words, if you add these new sounds, do you then remove any existing factory S90ES sounds?

 

I guess the gist of my question is, is my S90ES missing something significant as factory shipped? You just got me worried that's all. If it's significant, then it is certainly worth uploading.

 

Sorry if the question sounds stupid but I have never messed with the Voice banks even on my old S90.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Jazzwee

[HomeAmateur]

Hi Jazzee,

 

Actually, the MotifES has more voice banks then the S90ES, two more banks to be specific. I just quickly went through all the 'missing' sounds myslef and in my opinion you have nothing to worry about. The approx. 256 sounds that the S90ES is missing from the Motif ES are nothing significant. They are mostly pads and sound effects. If you want/need more of those then I would check them out, if not, your not missing much. They seemed to have done a good job of putting the 'best-of' the MotifEs sounds into the S90ES already.

 

The S90ES has 2 user banks. User Bank 1 has orginal sounds. User Bank 2 is sorta a 'best-of' bank of ALL of the banks. You could completly delete or replace the 128 patches in User Bank 2 and not lose anything. (they are just duplicates) - Im not quite sure of the reasoning of why Yamaha did it that way. If you customize any sounds to your liking, User Bank 2 is the best place to save them to. That way, like I said , you dont lose any of the factory sounds.

 

I am using User Bank 2 as basically a 'best-of' all of the free sounds available for download at sninety.com and motifator.com and of sounds I purchase.

 

Im just about to check out some of the sound on the M08 that I belive are missing from the S90ES.

[Jazzwee]

Great HA, thanks for the research. What genre would these missing sounds be for? I play jazz so anything useful there for me?

 

In any case, you get around to getting a list of these sounds, that would help a lot of people. (Maybe there is an existing list on the net?).

 

Regards,

 

Jazzwee

[HomeAmateur]

Id have to find it again, but if you search through the sninety.com forums youll see where someone has created a list showing the missing sounds in each board. In Excel format.

[HomeAmateur]

You can also download the voice/data list for each board from yamahasynth.com and compare each.

[HomeAmateur]

Ok, my official opinion.

 

For anyone that was like me, that has the S90ES and was very curious as to what sounds you were 'missing' from the Motif6/7/8 or MO6/8.

 

Your NOT missing much. The S90ES (in my opinion) HAS the best already. Out of the approx. 256 sounds from the Motif ES and the approx. 128 from the MO8 I saved 9(nine) to my S90ES.

 

It seems whoever it was at Yamaha who decided what sounds to leave out out of the S90ES did a very decent job. They seemed mostly to be near duplicat pads and leads and some patterns that sound ok for 3 seconds but you would likely never actually use them.

 

On another note. Im about to buy the new Axxe. bank over at the Motifmart. Ive listened to the demos and they sound like the best guitars Ive ever heard out of a synth by far. Even better then whats already programed into the S90ES. (and yes, I know there just re-programming of the elements already in the S90ES) But a dang good job at re-programming, worth just paying for and not trying to attempt on my own.

[jimmymio]

Originally posted by homeAmature:

On another note. Im about to buy the new Axxe. bank over at the Motifmart. Ive listened to the demos and they sound like the best guitars Ive ever heard out of a synth by far. Even better then whats already programed into the S90ES. (and yes, I know there just re-programming of the elements already in the S90ES) But a dang good job at re-programming, worth just paying for and not trying to attempt on my own.

Acoustic guitar? electric? I think the onboard acoustic guitars on the S90ES are already fantastic. I've yet to hear elec, guitar sounds from a keyboard that didn't sound cheesy.

 

On another note, although i love the S90ES sounds, I really dislike the architecture. There should have been some provision to add new sounds without having to erase anything. A real shortcoming IMHO.

 

JP

[HomeAmateur]

jimmymio,

 

Did you listen to the Axxe bank demos ? They seem to be mostly electric guitars, heavy distortion, 80s rock style, they sound very decent to me, even better then whats already in the 90es.

 

 

As far as not erasing anything. Did you read the previous post above. You can save over any sound in User Bank 2. That bank is simply duplicates of sounds in Preset banks. So, you have 128 slots to save NEW sounds in without losing any of your orginal sounds.

[ITGITC]

Kudos to you, homeAmature.

 

This is a generous offer.

 

Just when you think the whole forum is falling apart (it's not, but in the past few days it's kinda seemed like it) an act of kindness appears.

 

I offer you this gold star for helping to put things back on track through your selfless act of generosity.

 

http://ubar.egn.com.au/images/medals/Gold%20Star.jpg

 

Attaboy homeAmature.

[HomeAmateur]

Is there gas.....,

 

Thanks (I think), forgive me, but with all the 'mess' going on in here latey, its sometimes a bit hard to tell when someone is being serious or sarcastic (busting-butt). So...if your serious,..thanks for the star, however I prefer donations; please send to: (haha)

 

In any case I do have the 'missing ES8 bank' in All Voice and Editor format. So, in one step you can replace the entire User Bank 1 & 2 with all of the missng sounds. Or use the editor and just save to your S90ES what you want.

 

...I know anyone can do this themselves, but Im just offering this file to save them the time it takes to compile only the 'missing' sounds.

 

The MO8's 'missing' sounds is just basically its Pre 4 Bank. which anyone can grab from its editor.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by homeAmature:

Is there gas.....,

 

Thanks (I think), forgive me, but with all the 'mess' going on in here latey, its sometimes a bit hard to tell when someone is being serious or sarcastic (busting-butt). So...if your serious,..thanks for the star, however I prefer donations; please send to: (haha)

 

Nope. I'm not kidding.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to do the work and offer it to the forum.

 

Tom

[tim88mc]

My first post. Read some interesting opinions on the MO8 and sincerely appreciated the info. I'm an every weekend player, have been using a YamP120 with a Nord73 for organ EP,clav,wurli. Now I need to start playing string parts and horh parts. Was thinking of a MO8, deinitely sounded better than the S(80 I think older) After reading the info posted on SE90 I'll check it out starting with weight, and price. Anyone have opinions on the organ sounds in the MO8. Anyone know of software loadable better pianos for the MO8? I'm very happy to have found this site. It is very difficult to find others to discuss objective pro's and con's. Thank everyone

[tim88mc]

My first post. Read some interesting opinions on the MO8 and sincerely appreciated the info. I'm an every weekend player, have been using a YamP120 with a Nord73 for organ EP,clav,wurli. Now I need to start playing string parts and horh parts. Was thinking of a MO8, deinitely sounded better than the S(80 I think older) After reading the info posted on SE90 I'll check it out starting with weight, and price. Anyone have opinions on the organ sounds in the MO8. Anyone know of software loadable better pianos for the MO8? I'm very happy to have found this site. It is very difficult to find others to discuss objective pro's and con's. Thank everyone

[Markyboard]

Just wanted to say way to go homeA!

[DanL]

Jimmymio,

 

The user bank 2 is the perfect place to keep your own custom sounds since all of those sounds are dupes of what is in the preset memory. This is where I save all of mine, even if it's something as minor as an fx or eq tweak. I don't think they did anything wrong architecture wise, they could have left that bank blank.

[jimmymio]

Originally posted by DanL:

 

The user bank 2 is the perfect place to keep your own custom sounds since all of those sounds are dupes of what is in the preset memory. This is where I save all of mine, even if it's something as minor as an fx or eq tweak. I don't think they did anything wrong architecture wise, they could have left that bank blank. [/QB]

Thanks Dan and homeAture:

 

And yes I'm aware of the ability to store sounds in User Bank 2 and also that these sounds are duplicates. But for me the problem remains that this is the only place to store edited sounds and if you choose to erase a voice from this bank you have know way of knowing if it is something you may have edited years ago and is therefore not duplicated. And most importantly you have no way of knowing if the voice you are erasing is used in a performance. And for live playing I only use Performance mode where I have customized splits, layers and even single voices.

So if I want to do something as simple as change the EQ on an organ voice, I have nop choice but to copy it to a spot in the user 2 bank and erase whatever is there without knowing if it is a component in one of my Performances and to me this is a huge impediment.

 

Maybe I'm missing something here but I don't remember having this problem with any KB I've owned in the last 15 years or so.

 

JP

[Markyboard]

I missed that...can you repeat what you said?

[Markyboard]

Originally posted by jimmymio:

 

 

Maybe I'm missing something here but I don't remember having this problem with any KB I've owned in the last 15 years or so.

 

Most synths that have performances /multis work this way. If you edit and store a patch then any multis that use that patch will be affected. I'm not saying they all do. But show me one that doesn't and I'll list 5 that do.

[jimmymio]

Originally posted by Markyboard:

Originally posted by jimmymio:

 

 

Maybe I'm missing something here but I don't remember having this problem with any KB I've owned in the last 15 years or so.

 

Most synths that have performances /multis work this way. If you edit and store a patch then any multis that use that patch will be affected. I'm not saying they all do. But show me one that doesn't and I'll list 5 that do.

Maybe I spoke incorrectly but I really wish I was able to make basic edits to a voice and not have to move it somewhere else and erase something. When I need to edit a voice in a Triton, I simply edit it and store it in the same place. With the S90ES, I have to store it to one of the user banks, but first, I have to go through all of my Performances and make sure that the User voice I'm about to erase is not being used in any of those Performances.

Or even generations before the Triton, you could store edited sounds to an internal harddrive, floppy drive, Ram card etc. and have real time access to those sounds in your layered Combis/Performances etc., again without having to erase anything.

JP

[Markyboard]

Let's see - there's so many posibilities here so I'm going to take a stab at this and see if it's what you're looking for.

 

You have a Performance with 3 Voices as an example. You want to change the filter setting of voice 1 and the attack of voice 2.

 

The Performance button should be lit (green)

 

Press edit

 

Press 1 to edit voice 1

 

Press F4 - Soft switch under display for Tone

 

Press SF2 Soft switch under display for Filter adjust

 

Here you can change your cutoff, resonsance or envelope depth

 

Press 2 to edit voice 2 or scroll over using the right arrow.

 

Press SF4 to get to the Amplitude EG

 

Adjust ADSR.

 

Now you can save this as part of your performance.

None of this changed your saved voices as they are all just offsets to the actual parameter in the voice itself.

 

Does that help?

[jimmymio]

Originally posted by Markyboard:

Let's see - there's so many posibilities here so I'm going to take a stab at this and see if it's what you're looking for.

 

You have a Performance with 3 Voices as an example. You want to change the filter setting of voice 1 and the attack of voice 2.

 

The Performance button should be lit (green)

 

Press edit

 

Press 1 to edit voice 1

 

Press F4 - Soft switch under display for Tone

 

Press SF2 Soft switch under display for Filter adjust

 

Here you can change your cutoff, resonsance or envelope depth

 

Press 2 to edit voice 2 or scroll over using the right arrow.

 

Press SF4 to get to the Amplitude EG

 

Adjust ADSR.

 

Now you can save this as part of your performance.

None of this changed your saved voices as they are all just offsets to the actual parameter in the voice itself.

 

Does that help?

Yes it does help and I appreciate you taking the time to set up a little tutorial. And don't get me wrong, I've never been as happy with the way a keyboard sounds several months after purchase but i gotta be honest and say that i think the S90ES architecture is "inelegant" at best.

 

Thanks for your concern,

JP

[HomeAmateur]

Excellent resolution from Markyboard.

 

Now let me attempt another angle to consider.

 

Although Im not positive, I assume that NONE of the 'preset' performances use any sounds that are stored to LOCATION user bank 2. Remember these are DUPLICATES of sounds in PRESET banks. I would guess that the progamming of the performances points to those sounds stored ONLY in PRESET LOCATIONS. To verify this all you would have to do is use the voice editor and replace the user bank two with bank two's sounds being 'initialized'. Then try all of the performances. If they still work right then my theory is correct.

 

Now you can store your edited sounds to user bank two saving over top of 'initialized' slots, thereby KNOWING that you are NOT replacing anything NEEDED. Basically in short, just delete ALL of the sounds in user bank 2 and ONLY put YOUR editied sounds there. I dont believe that will effect any of the performances already in the S90ES. When you creat NEW performances of course if your using one of your edited sounds youll be pointing that performance to the 'user 2' location. Then of course you have to leave that edited voice in THAT location in order for that performance to work properly. As pointed out you have 128 slots to do this WITHOUT losing ANY factory sounds.

 

Im not sure if I explained that very well. But hopefully you got the jist.

[Jazzwee]

Very educational for me Markyboard, and HomeA. Thanks.

 

Hey Markyboard, glad you are staying (I know it is a joke!) because I upgraded to the S90ES after reading everything you ever wrote about the board...which is a hell of a lot.

 

I only do minor things like create performances and tweak each one. I never messed with the voices. Honestly, I didn't even know where it was stored. Fortunately, I had an S90 so the lingo and controls are the same pretty much but a lot of the synthesizer terms were a bit beyond me. Some of them still are.

 

Is there like a quick synthesizer lesson (concise) that applies to a ROMPLER like the S90ES?

[Markyboard]

Glad I can help Jazzwee. Wow - I'm glad someone reads my techno-babble when I'm not just spewing...babble.

 

As is often recommended Motifator - behind the manual is a good resource. I'm sure there's plenty more out there but someone else will have to chime in.

 

Basically all these workstations and synths do the same things plus or minus some number of unique functions (that ought to cover it ). If you know what those functions are (from other synths) it's just a matter of finding them in your keyboard of choice and dealing with the unique interface. You guys are most likely programming the S90ES or other romplers a lot more then me in this regard. I use it mainly as a controller and for "playing" as opposed to tweeking which I do plent of on analogs and softsynths. Most of the unique programming I've done on the S90ES is in response to the good questions coming up on this forum sparking my curiosity. I seldom work in performance or multi mode so when someone ask I get curious.

 

I'm happy to answer specific questions - if HomeA doesn't beat me to it.

[Jazzwee]

Markyboard,

 

I have read many of your early posts on both the S90 and S90ES. They sounded way beyond "playing or tweaking to me"!

 

It showed an advanced understanding of synths. I'm more of the player. I only tweak when I need it to affect my playing.

 

As an example of an issue I encountered: I do studio type work like you. I record. The acoustic bass on the S90 was perfect for me originally for a jazz trio sound. But the S90ES version of the acoustic bass sounded like it was missing a bass sound. So I tweaked the equalizer on it and sounded better. I wish I had it to compare but the sample on the S90 was better. I wouldn't know how to transfer a voice from the S90 to the S90ES. Maybe you guys can show me how. I don't want to override a whole bank though, if I can help it.

 

Note: My additional problem is that I no longer have an S90 so I don't even remember what the original voice was called. I stuck it into a performance before so I don't have to refer to the actual voice often.

 

Thanks very much for your help guys.

[jimmymio]

Originally posted by homeAmature:

Although Im not positive, I assume that NONE of the 'preset' performances use any sounds that are stored to LOCATION user bank 2. Remember these are DUPLICATES of sounds in PRESET banks. I would guess that the progamming of the performances points to those sounds stored ONLY in PRESET LOCATIONS. To verify this all you would have to do is use the voice editor and replace the user bank two with bank two's sounds being 'initialized'. Then try all of the performances. If they still work right then my theory is correct.

 

Now you can store your edited sounds to user bank two saving over top of 'initialized' slots, thereby KNOWING that you are NOT replacing anything NEEDED. Basically in short, just delete ALL of the sounds in user bank 2 and ONLY put YOUR editied sounds there. I dont believe that will effect any of the performances already in the S90ES. When you creat NEW performances of course if your using one of your edited sounds youll be pointing that performance to the 'user 2' location. Then of course you have to leave that edited voice in THAT location in order for that performance to work properly. As pointed out you have 128 slots to do this WITHOUT losing ANY factory sounds.

 

Im not sure if I explained that very well. But hopefully you got the jist.

No, you explained it very well and I wish i had just initialized this bank when i first got the board and before i started programming. Because now I've got all of my edits mixed in there with the stock duplicates.

Anyway, between this approach and markyboard's suggestions, I'm sure i'll have an easier time.

thanks to the both of you.

JP

[HomeAmateur]

You can also just look at your data list that came with your S90Es and reference the patches in your user bank two to the patches in your Preset banks. That way you can SEE the duplicate names and erase (initilize) what you want to.

 

Also its probably a good idea to 'rename' a patch when you edit it. That way you wont confuse/mistake it for a 'factory patch'