Anifa Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 While performing a major overhaul on my web site I was conducting some research and came upon some interesting food for thought. I know that here in Kansas City, we have had some concert tours banned from our arenas, stadiums, auditoriums, and ampitheatres for reasons of sound pollution. Here is a link to an interesting read with legal aspects written into it. [url=http://www.v-law.com/howloud.html]V-Law and The Virtual Law Offices [/url] You can take the man away from his music, but you can't take the music out of the man. Books by Craig Anderton through Amazon Sweetwater: Bruce Swedien\'s "Make Mine Music" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 YOU'LL HAVE TO SPEAK UP! I CAIN'T HEAR YA FROM THE RINGING IN MY EARS... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 My only beef with his paper is his belief that sound systems will get larger, draw more power, and in turn, be operated at higher volume. This is actually opposite industry trends. Line Arrays have become the system of choice for touring acts. Due to their design, line arrays cover a given area with less cabinets than conventional systems. They're more efficient, thereby using less power to fill a given area with sound. Mr Scheirman is well aware of these systems, as he wrote [url=http://www.jblpro.com/pub/tour/Deployment_Modular_Line_Arrays.pdf]this paper[/url] titled, Practical Considerations On Field Deployment Of Line Array Systems. I'm interested to know does he still believes sound systems will continue to grow in size, power, and throw? The paper on line arrays was presented to the AES in June of 2002. As to stupidity in the entertainment industry, I can only point to morons who insist on ungodly loud shows and the sound companies that acquiese to their demands, knowing full well the product sounds terrible and is damaging to the audience members' hearing. I worked the Nashville show on the first KISS reunion tour, a few years ago. I should note the Nashville Arena (now the Gaylord Entertainment Center) is a wonderful acoustic space, as enclosed arenas go. It took me no less than 30 seconds to identify songs I have known for 25 years, due to the excessive volume! After the start of the third or fourth tune, I escaped from FOH to the back hall. I watched the concert from Video Control. It was irresponsible. But that's what the band's management asked for, and to keep the money rolling, that's what the sound company delivered. Pathetic. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of concerts in which the sound was handled both responsibly and with finesse. There is no reason why concerts should not sound good, if not pristine. But like the drug industry, the demand is there for entertainment, not music, at many pop, country, and certainly rock concerts. So long as that's the case, so long as drunk people are considered informed consumers, many of these concerts will continue to be obnoxious experiences for many, and dangerous to our sense of hearing. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_dont_fret Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Hmm, interesting. I saw U2 back in the day, but it was at a football stadium, with an open top or whatever. It was certainly loud, but not damaging. I also saw Widespread Panic not too long ago, in a closed arena, and whilst it was loud, it wasn't too loud to handle...I could hear everything clearly and perfectly. I think the beef is with all these new bands that compress the hell out of their crap, and expect the concerts to be just as loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Pack earplugs. I don't go to any live musical event without protecting myself the way I do when I'm rehearsong or performing, especially since most fools play a lot louder than I do. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattC Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 ...now keep in mind that "sound pollution" is a function of the inside volume escaping into the environment, and should have nothing to do with inside volume by itself. That being said, I have to ask this- why do many clubs feel the need to crank their (often) inadequate sound systems as loud as they do? I love a good loud show as much as the next guy (although I always bring protection), but there's no reason to have clubs so loud. ...and then don't even get me started about rooms with extremely painfully non-linear freq. responses, which make the far-too-loud sound even worse. ...think funky thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anifa Posted January 20, 2003 Author Share Posted January 20, 2003 Keeping sound housed inside of a respectful range of hearing is a good thing. However, when you are in an outdoor stadium or fairgrounds where the sound blows the rooftops off of homes in residential areas surrounding the event; then there are repercussions that will be reaped. One VERY memorable event that happened in K.C. was back in 1985 where Ted Nugent played a summer jam at the Royals Stadium. I was in attendance, and after the show, residents within a 5 to 7 mile radius of the performance filed a class action lawsuit and banned his return. I was okay with the volume, but I'm sure that with the audibility of the concert being very profound for miles around, some of the residents were probably offended by the vulgarity used every other word. I think that it would be a wise move to keep things under control. I'm sure there have been more episodes where citizens have taken action here in KC that are more recent, but since I was there, I know HOW LOUD it was. You can take the man away from his music, but you can't take the music out of the man. Books by Craig Anderton through Amazon Sweetwater: Bruce Swedien\'s "Make Mine Music" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 There are some venues, such as Cobo Arena here in Detroit, that have such bad acoustics that some sound "engineers" feel the best way to overcome it is more volume. Yet, in the same place, I heard Zappa sound as clear as he would in a small club. Obviously, his sound crew knew what they were doing. And it wasn't excessivly loud, either. On the other hand, while on a friend's boat back in the '70's, we were cruising by Cobo(it's on the Detroit River) the same night Nugent was playing inside there. We were a good 100 yards from shore and we could STILL hear him playing! Now, that's TOO fuckin' LOUD! An added factor is the tone. While some groups I've seen seemed to be very loud, the tone was balanced so that the ear wasn't assaulted. Those cranked up highs don't do any bit of good. But you can't seem to TELL some people that. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip_dup1 Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 IMO, subtleties of sound dynamics is on the way to becoming a lost art, confined to classical and some jazz concerts. I heard a soul singer say once about Michael Bolton-if you start every song at the same peak, you have nowhere to go. Same with volume. It`s just blast blast blast and then it`s over. What idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anifa Posted January 20, 2003 Author Share Posted January 20, 2003 Actually, I stumbled on a forum post on PollStars' message boards relative to Stage Sound Productions where a professional soundman has repeatedly been beat out and drastically undercut on pricing by inferior production companies. Here is the direct link to the post. [url=http://forums.pollstar.com/forums/showthread.php?s=28201d9e37f199ce15d3687220f694e6&threadid=253]Outside vendors undercutting local markets [/url] After reading this guys grievance, it made me wonder what the industry is heading for when concert venues begin using cut rate production companies who hire foreigners working for pennies on the dollar or DISABILITY recipients who have secondary paychecks and benefits to fall back on when the gigs don't provide. Some people may think that this guy is just whining about not pulling the wages that he is used to making, and they may think that he's overpriced, but the reality of it is this: Professionals have invested multiple thousands of dollars in top of the line gear and their livelihood depends on profits turned in performance or services provided. Venues are opting for the cheaper route out, hiring inferior production companies that do not have near the equipment or the experience. With inexperience and poor equipment comes NOISE pollution. I really think that we are heading for a very rude awakening. Revisions in union agreements (NAFTA or GATT as well as others throughout all industries) that cater to the corporate America rather than to the laborer or service provider. You can take the man away from his music, but you can't take the music out of the man. Books by Craig Anderton through Amazon Sweetwater: Bruce Swedien\'s "Make Mine Music" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitefang Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 On the other hand, Anifa, we here may be the only people griping about the sound! Do you recall that "Frampton Comes Alive" recording? Remember all the whistling and other audience noise going on during that fine keyboard solo on "Feel Like I Do"? Seemed that too many folks in the seats weren't really paying attention to it. And this is why I quit going to these things a long time ago. It appeared to me that a great deal of the concert goers were there either to be seen, looking to see who was in the crowd, or looking to get laid. And, as I bet most of the crowds were non-musicians, they wouldn't really know or give a shit if the sound was good or not. You're all paying for that now. It's sort of like the raw deal you got in school when the whole class would be punished for the behaviour of one asshole. Whitefang I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted January 20, 2003 Share Posted January 20, 2003 When I was younger and dumber, I saw a lot of loud shows without earplugs. The loudest of all was without question Ted Nugent at the San Jose Civic Center. Ted's guitar blew our heads off, and my ears rang for days (literally). The Who were a close second. This was their "Final Tour" (in 1982). :rolleyes: "Say, Dave, do you have any hearing damage now?" "What?" --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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