Recommend a goodPiano Technique book

[Loufrance]

Can anyone recommend a good piano technique book?

It'd be great if theres one thats easy to understand and has great color photos showing hand positions etc.

[David Loving]

Hanon. Alas, no pictures.

[zoomer]

There are no good technique books because it is something that requires a teacher. Hanon and other exericse books such as Joseffy, Pischna, Czerny, etc., are used as part of a program to develop technique, not the sole resource alone.

 

You can do things 95% correct, but that small error can cost you a great deal of success. Its like trying to learn proper golf swing techniqe alone, or from a book, without at least some help from a pro. The pro can spot a tiny improper movement or some other error that the student, or a novice teacher, would not notice nor even know to watch out for, much less know how to correct. And that error can cause the student to never play golf well, and could result in physical harm to the back, wrist, etc.

Find a classically trained teacher who is strong in technique, and watch carefully how he or she plays. Is the playing fluid and seemingly effortless, without stress and tension in the hands? Then you are probably on the right track. The proof is in the pudding.

I have played for over fifty years (yikes!) and taught for at least half of that. I am appalled at how many people who profess a classical background have little or no proper technique training, and, when given Hanon as a starter, launch into it without attention to hand position, body posture, relaxation, and the myriad other factors that build proper technique.

[kanker.]

Don't forget Schmitt either.

[marino]

1) Get a *good* teacher. (What Zoomer said)

 

2) Buy "On Piano Playing" by pianist Gyorgy Sandor. It's the most useful book on piano technique I've ever seen. You'll find plenty of pictures and explanations, and many musical examples. But you'll *still* need a teacher.

[Loufrance]

Everybody says to get a teacher (I understand why) but right now because of where I live I can't get a teacher (or afford one I spent all of my money on a Maudio Prokeys 88). I wanted to get a good Piano technique book and learn to play well enough to get into college, then i'll get a teacher. It may sound silly but thats the best plan for me, I know that I could learn bad habits that i'll have to unlearn later but thats only a minor problem for me. I want a book that I can read and understand myself.

[B.T.]

I don't think you're going to find a book on how to play piano because there problably is not a good one out there and if you want to go that route you'd probably be better off viewing some videos or DVD's on piano playing/technique etc. There is a book that might be of interest to you (click on link below) that teaches some theory and technique. It helped me. There are tons of piano learning books on Amazon if you browse through them and read the customer reviews. Most of the guys and gals on this forum are veterans and pretty much traditionists when it comes to piano playing and "you must have a teacher" is their number one phrase. I'd have to agree with them even though I'm in their same boat but am a guitar player for 40 years but am fairly new to piano. I don't think the players on this forum are going to tell you what you want to hear so if you want to go the no teacher route try looking at the books on Amazon and more importantly look for videos/DVD's on the subject.

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385142633/qid=1129126980/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-6108709-2494217?v=glance&s=books

[Bartolomeo]

Originally posted by Loufrance:

Everybody says to get a teacher (I understand why) but right now because of where I live I can't get a teacher (or afford one I spent all of my money on a Maudio Prokeys 88). I wanted to get a good Piano technique book and learn to play well enough to get into college, then i'll get a teacher. It may sound silly but thats the best plan for me, I know that I could learn bad habits that i'll have to unlearn later but thats only a minor problem for me. I want a book that I can read and understand myself.

Hate to be harsh, but it isn't going to work. Lessons are going to cost you $1000 a year or more so your Maudio Prokeys doesn't have anything to do with it. If it matters to you, figure out a way to come up with the money. Take lessons and put in the practice time.

 

I know that I could learn bad habits that i'll have to unlearn later but thats only a minor problem for me.

 

I'm going to be blunt. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you're wrong. The first steps are the hardest and you can't make progress without an instructor. Any progress you think you might have made is going to get you nowhere because you'll spend every bit as much time relearning it the right way as you would have to learn it right in the first place. People who have learned who say they didn't have a teacher invariably had some other sort of informal mentorship or other source of training.

[Dave Horne]

Loufrance, there's a lot or professional experience here in this thread and everyone is saying the same thing.

 

You wrote - I wanted to get a good Piano technique book and learn to play well enough to get into college, then i'll get a teacher.

 

Sorry to disappoint, but I didn't learn correct technique even while in college. I was a classical organ major back then and my teacher never discussed technique in detail. I only learned correct technique after I studied with a concert pianist when I was 28. I was extremely depressed after my first lesson with him as I realized I had to undo 15 years or so of bad habits. It took me about three months before the 'new' way was second nature and I never forgot the importance of those lessons.

 

There are many bad teachers out there and some of them exist even at the university level.

 

Bottom line - get a teacher if only for a handful of lessons so you can be pointed in the correct direction. One way to weed out the really bad teachers (though certainly not 100 percent foolproof), study with someone who concertizes and who is affiliated with a music college.

 

Loufrance, you do not state where you live. I'm sure someone here can point you to a good school or a good teacher in your area. So, where do you live?

[kanker.]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

It took me about three months before the 'new' way was second nature and I never forgot the importance of those lessons.

I'm sure that was 3 months of extremely hard, frustrating, and dedicated work too. I wouldn't expect to correct and unlearn years of bad technique in that short of a time period without a TON of effort.

[Moon Zero Two]

As Marino said "On Piano Playing" by pianist Gyorgy Sandor is very good - there are a couple of others - Keyboard choreography and that great book by Whitehall about playing the Chopin Etudes.

 

I have been working through Jordan Ruddess's Keyboard Wizardry for the past couple of weeks - some good exercises in odd meters and a couple of classic exercises.

 

All that being said it is vitally important to work with a teacher who understands rotation and lateral movement - IT ISN'T FINGER STRENGTH!! Don't get carpal tunnel - let the larger muscles do the work.

[Dave Horne]

All that being said it is vitally important to work with a teacher who understands rotation and lateral movement - IT ISN'T FINGER STRENGTH!! Don't get carpal tunnel - let the larger muscles do the work.

That reminds me of why I sought out professional advice when I was 28. I had blood under my fingernails, split nails and would tape my fingers with white athletic tape to be able to practice. My thinking at that time was, if only my hands were stronger I could overcome this situation. I even bought a device to strengthen my fingers - this was an aluminum rod in the shape of a circle and there were springs and loops of leather for me to insert my fingers. I thought if only my fingers were stronger, my problems would be solved. Dumb, huh?

 

I try to give an illustration to students in the form of a see saw. If you press the see saw near the fulcrum (the center), you can press it down but it takes a great deal of force ... (playing just using your fingers). If you press down at the end of the see saw, you're really using your entire arm and thus using less force. This can be a difficult concept to convey.

[marino]

I, too, had to rebuild my piano technique from the ground up. I was about 20 I think. I had studied with three different classical teachers, and each one had a different idea of technique. The last one was a concert pianist, but she taught me the least of the three about technique.

It was a period of deep reflections; I spoke with dozens of pianists and teachers, a few famous ones among them. I thought about their advices, read quite a few books, and to me Sandor's book made the most sense. I decided, rather boldly, to study by myself, but checking with a teacher every now and then.

It took about *two years* to 'reprogram' myself to the new way of playing. A lot of effort and concentration - but the results were worth it. First, my overall techniqhe improved greatly. Second, by learning to be aware of things like arm weight, body weight, and tendon alignment, I learned to play heavy stuff for long periods of time, without getting tense. Third, I *never* got bothered by pain, tendonitis or any other hand/arm injury again. Just as important, none of my students ever suffered with those either.

[Loufrance]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

All that being said it is vitally important to work with a teacher who understands rotation and lateral movement - IT ISN'T FINGER STRENGTH!! Don't get carpal tunnel - let the larger muscles do the work.

That reminds me of why I sought out professional advice when I was 28. I had blood under my fingernails, split nails and would tape my fingers with white athletic tape to be able to practice. My thinking at that time was, if only my hands were stronger I could overcome this situation. I even bought a device to strengthen my fingers - this was an aluminum rod in the shape of a circle and there were springs and loops of leather for me to insert my fingers. I thought if only my fingers were stronger, my problems would be solved. Dumb, huh?

 

I try to give an illustration to students in the form of a see saw. If you press the see saw near the fulcrum (the center), you can press it down but it takes a great deal of force ... (playing just using your fingers). If you press down at the end of the see saw, you're really using your entire arm and thus using less force. This can be a difficult concept to convey.

Applying this saw concept to a keyboard what do you mean? should your fingers be closer to the edge of the keys, or closer to the tops?

 

I live in between Grand forks and Fargo,North Dakota in a very rural area about 55-80 miles away from both of the said citys.(I don't want to say exactly where I'm at but North Dakota is pretty empty.

[deadman9]

What all these people are saying about getting a teacher is absolutely right. I have had a slew of teachers each one in some way better than the one before (and oddly enough, each requiring me to travel a further distance). I had tendonititis about a year ago due to the technique a professional concert pianist and college professor with a masters from julliard was teaching me. Although it was clear to me that he was wrong (he wanted me to maintain a hand postion in relation to the keyboard rather than in relation to my arm, I'll post something in the other topic, I want to talk to people about this), he insisted that his way was the only way. Point is, if it starts to hurt, you're doing it wrong, stop doing it, reevaluate, and switch technique before you hurt yourself. The tendonitis for me was so bad that I could barely hold a tooth brush for a few days. Luckily, after switching teachers, and changing the whole way I looked at technique, the tendonitis hasn't flared up since.

 

Hanon is EXTREMELY dangerous, so are the other technique books if you don't have a teacher to explain how to use them properly. I mention hanon especially because it requires alot of holding the same hand position while moving up and down all in C, this can really promote tension, same for schmitt. For a self guided book I'd reccomend anything that works chromatically (little pischna), changing hand position all the time will help prevent tension.

 

Don't try to do too much at once, if you're new to it, limit yourself to maybe 10 minutes at a time. The lumbricles(<-spelling?) will tire out very quickly if you're not used to using them, then the muscle set you're using will switch to the larger less precise muscles and they'll get all tensed up and before you know it, you'll die! ....or have alot of tension in your hands.

 

Don't let your hand roll towards the pinky. Movements must bemade out of rhythm in order to make the sound happen in rhythm.

 

.....that's most of the big things that really helped me, and I have been very brief. You can probably find countless people that do it some other way and they'll tell you I'm wrong.... AND, that's why you NEED a COMPETENT teacher who can guide you through all this stuff untill you figure out what's going to work for you. If that is absolutely impossible for you to do, I reccomend going on ebay and buying every single used piano technique book you can find, then read all of them. Then file them on a book shelf.

 

Also, you NEED a real piano. You absolutely will not be able to learn on a keyboard. It won't work, trust me, I've tried. You'll get to a real piano and be like, "hey! what's wrong with this piano?" Then you'll realize you've wasted ALOT of time.

 

Someone tell me more about this arm weight technique. I may be doing something like that, but I'm not sure. I've heard so many people swear by it, but I've also talked to alot of people who are very good and have never even heard of it. The technique I've been learning is very thumb-centric, and very focused on moving out of rhythm, and independant motions of the thumb and hand when they cross. Also, does anyone have a good video of someone playing thumb-over technique, I'd like to see this being done for scales and arpeggios. I'll re-ask some of this in that technique thread tomorow.

 

uhhhhhh, I haven't posted in a looooong time... oh no! I'm out of things to say... goodnight.

 

Good luck to you with whatever you decide to do.

[David Loving]

Originally posted by deadman9:

[

Hanon is EXTREMELY dangerous, so are the other technique books if you don't have a teacher to explain how to use them properly. I mention hanon especially because it requires alot of holding the same hand position while moving up and down all in C, this can really promote tension, same for schmitt. "

 

Actually, the unwritten custom for using Hanon is to play it in all the keys, not just in C as written. Just an aside.

[Dave Horne]

Applying this saw concept to a keyboard what do you mean? should your fingers be closer to the edge of the keys, or closer to the tops?

Loufrance, that was just to help illustrate the concept in general. You can depress a key using a lot of effort or much less.

 

If you play just using your fingers, you're using much too much effort. If you use your entire arm, you use much less effort. The illustration was more about the amount of effort used and _not_ where you place your fingers on the keys.

 

Loufrance, a very good friend of mine grew up in Fargo or near Fargo. I will send you his e-mail address and perhaps you can contact him, he might know someone. He now lives near San Diego.

 

Check your Private Messages.

[Dave Horne]

Also, does anyone have a good video of someone playing thumb-over technique, I'd like to see this being done for scales and arpeggios.

No video, just words. Keep your fingers basically parallel to the keys at all times and keep your thumb close to your index finger. Now, slide your hand across the keyboard for several octaves _in that position_.

 

If you move your hand across several octaves, you will only depress a key when the correct finger (or thumb) is over the key in question. By keeping the thumb basically glued to your index finger _and_ keeping your fingers parallel (though nicely arched) to the keys, you eliminate that unnecessary movement that some folks use when they place their thumb under their hand in anticipation of the next note.

 

It takes practice to do this quickly to avoid breaks in the sound, but it can be done and uses the least amount of effort. At slow tempos you can have all kinds of bad habits and they won't get in the way that much. The problem comes at faster tempos - you will have a bad habit engrained and will have much more unnecessary movement which will cause problems.

[gangsu]

Damn, Dave! Not only did you add extra weights to your Steinway, but you used a contraption to build finger muscles. I'm impressed.

 

Hanon won't kill anybody. Hanon is good for teaching little fingers to recognize their independence. And if you keep your eyes on the page, it might even be an easy way to hasten note-reading skills. There are many variations on the theme - key sig, rhythm, interval, to keep it mildly interesting.

 

Arm weight example: have someone lift your hand off your lap and drop it on the keys. CRASH. It takes no effort on your part to make a big sound. A tough concept for some men to grasp.

 

Stressing out over personal playing habits doesn't usually happen til you've discovered you've got a natural facility at the piano. Hey, I can do this! Hey, when I practice, I can play anything! These people offering you advice are not beginners. Their fingers already know where to go. They read. They improvise. They compose. They teach. They perform in public. And they've each at some point made that personal decision to take it to the next level. I'm not sure where you are in your studies, but you can definitely set yourself on the right track by starting with a weighted keyboard, an adjustable bench, decent lighting, and any recommended book with a few simple illustrations. Don't sweat it. Just pay attention.

 

Some fingers are stubby, some crooked, some double-jointed, some extremely uneven in length, some so thick they get stuck between the black keys, some crack in dry weather, some hands are flat-palmed, some shake, some sweat, some forearms are short, some necks are long, some people wear bifocals, some music racks are high, some are low, some people are nervous, some are bold. Et cetera. Your goal is simple: to relax and feel comfortable at the keys. When you can pull that off, your efforts will be musical. One measure at a time..

 

And good luck finding a teacher. An audience is always good.

[Dave Horne]

some people are nervous, some are bold

... or was that bald?

[gangsu]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

... or was that bald?

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

some people are nervous, some are bold

... or was that bald?

http://members.home.nl/davehorne/photos/Horne/dave_tux.jpg

 

 

 

Hi Dave

[Dave Horne]

[Loufrance]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

Also, does anyone have a good video of someone playing thumb-over technique, I'd like to see this being done for scales and arpeggios.

No video, just words. Keep your fingers basically parallel to the keys at all times and keep your thumb close to your index finger. Now, slide your hand across the keyboard for several octaves _in that position_.

 

If you move your hand across several octaves, you will only depress a key when the correct finger (or thumb) is over the key in question. By keeping the thumb basically glued to your index finger _and_ keeping your fingers parallel (though nicely arched) to the keys, you eliminate that unnecessary movement that some folks use when they place their thumb under their hand in anticipation of the next note.

 

It takes practice to do this quickly to avoid breaks in the sound, but it can be done and uses the least amount of effort. At slow tempos you can have all kinds of bad habits and they won't get in the way that much. The problem comes at faster tempos - you will have a bad habit engrained and will have much more unnecessary movement which will cause problems.

Thanks Dave, I'm just a begginer I'm not ready to go to the "next" level (pro level) I,ve had a little informal training. The technique your desicribing about not using the thumb-under method

was briefly explained to me by a former University of Massachussets Music Theory Prof. I used to know, he explained that when you have to play fast you don't have much time to cross the thumb under.

He explained this to me because I asked him why is it when he plays he doesn't cross his thumb under.

I wish I would of asked him to give me lessons!