Jazz+ Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 You can see, the "hammer" is a long dark brass colored metal rod with a bent end. The "hammer" hits a white felt-covered rail at the back of the key. The "hammer" is fitted only for the feeling of the action. The keypress and velocity sensor is below your finger. PHOTOS HERE: http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/6/1140.html#000000 Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 And? Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 And? They're interesting! Except I can't identify the springs. I'm sure they're in there, though. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finale Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Maybe this was already done here, but I was thinking we could use this thread or a new one to compare the keyboard mechanisms of the most common digital pianos. So attention to all who have digital cams and feel the urge to open their loved keyboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by Cydonia: So attention to all who have digital cams and feel the urge to open their loved keyboards. You wanna get murdered... quickly? Try asking that question to GEEKGIRL. She just finished repairing a broken key on her Kurzweil and she's none too happy about having to open up the beast. But you can ask her, Cydonia. Go 'head... ask her... I dare ya... No... I DOUBLE-DARE ya! "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by gangsu: And? They're interesting! Except I can't identify the springs. I'm sure they're in there, though. I can't argue with "interesting" although I could have sworn these were hydraulic keys! Weighted with oil!!! If you look really closely, you can see a leak at the edge of F#4! aL Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 That's what hydraulic means? Weighted with oil? And are there pistons, or are there springs? edited for spelling. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Pistons only of course. (V6 in case you want to get technical)! Can you say Pianola? aL Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Pistons, no kidding. Well thanks for the info. I can say Pianola, but I've never played one. I'll have to check it out. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Hey Sue I don't believe you can play a pianola! OTOH, you can play a pianola piano!!! http://www.pianola.org/pages/history/images/firstpianola.jpg aL Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I tried to open my StudioLogic SL990 controller to see what is ratteling inside. No luck. I don't think they want anyone to see inside their controllers. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Pretty neat. My P90 is in the shop, I asked the tech to lighten the action because I played a used P60 in a store that felt much better, they both use the same keybed, so I told the tech there has to be a way to adjust it. Last time I talked to him, Yamaha may replace the keybed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by Music*aL: Hey Sue I don't believe you can play a pianola! OTOH, you can play a pianola piano!!! Hey Al, good to start the day off with a laugh. You were trying to make me smile, right? Here's a thought...Why doesn't everyone just record themselves on their action of choice, and let us hear the quick and dynamic response of their beloved keyboards? (And no cheating with that MIDI nonsense either, or pieces that are so darn easy they play themselves.) I mean you have to admit that 'actions' speak louder than 'words' about actions. my 2 cents "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 The older fully weighted models of Fatar, Kurzweil and Studio Logic actions are not easy to open and replace parts on. All the keys slide onto one long metal shaft and you have to slide off all the outer keys to get to the inner keys. They often just replace the whole action. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by gangsu: Hey Al, good to start the day off with a laugh. You were trying to make me smile, right? Sue, I can't say I was being altruistic, but I am glad you got a smile/laugh out of it. aL Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by Music*aL: Sue, I can't say I was being altruistic, but I am glad you got a smile/laugh out of it. ....I do agree that you must adapt your playing to the piano. I've got a harmonica around here somewhere..... "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 On a serious note, it seems to me there's not a whole lot of keybeds I can't adjust to. I like Roland and Yamaha action even though they're palpably different. Fatar action, I couldn't tell you if I ever played it. I remember playing a Korg Triton 88 (which IRRC has a Fatar keybed), and thought the action was clumsy -- heavier than normal and seemed to have what I'll describe as a strange return. It was either too fast or too slow -- I can't remember. But, maybe I'm not as picky about keybeds. Reality is, no two pianos have the same action, and eventually you get used to the action of the piano you're playing... My two cents. aL Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalpajazz Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I have my p-80 from 1999, and I have disarmed it several times... key by key. The mechanism is the same one that is seen in the photos. The key are no spring... returns by gravity... and a flexible metalica piece, in form of "Y" which it is within the key. The brass rods of the "hammers" have different size, to manage the effect "graded hammer" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by gangsu: Originally posted by Music*aL: Sue, I can't say I was being altruistic, but I am glad you got a smile/laugh out of it. ....I do agree that you must adapt your playing to the piano. I've got a harmonica around here somewhere..... Couldn't have said it more eloquently.... aL Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windreaper Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by kalpajazz: The key are no spring... returns by gravity Exactly what he said. The key return is handled by the weight of hammers returning to default position. It's the same with Roland PA-x action. That's why the action in digital pianos can seem bouncy to some - the keys themselves have very little mass compared to the hammer mechanism. When the hammer returns back to default position it can cause quite a thump, in lack of a better expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 So, there are no springs, the keys return by gravity and a flexible metalic piece within each key, in the form of "Y" creates part of the down weight resistance. I think I recall being told by the parts department at Yamaha that the flexible metalic pieces are graded. Or are they all the same and it's the "hammers" that are graded? I don't think you can easily lighten a Yamaha P action unless you replace nearly all the flexible metalic strips or the "hammers" and and that might cost more than just replacing the whole graded action with the lighter balanced action. I considered doing that at one point to my P120 but gave up on playing Yamaha actions for medical reasons. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle ggurl Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?: Originally posted by Cydonia: So attention to all who have digital cams and feel the urge to open their loved keyboards. You wanna get murdered... quickly? Try asking that question to GEEKGIRL. She just finished repairing a broken key on her Kurzweil and she's none too happy about having to open up the beast. But you can ask her, Cydonia. Go 'head... ask her... I dare ya... No... I DOUBLE-DARE ya! God, I can't believe I just saw this thread (and suggestion). Uh, yeah, opened it up (PC2 semi-weighted for those of you who don't know the story), been there, done that. Was able to remove the key, fix the key, and wedge back into the beast ... operation successful. FWIW the keybed is set up so you can remove one key at a time fairly easily. Of course, to me the action is far from my favorite and it isn't weighted, so even if I took pics they may be of little interest to anyone. Original Latin Jazz CD Baby "I am not certain how original my contribution to music is as I am obviously an amateur." Patti Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finale Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Geekgurl, Naaah, we all really wanted to see how you fixed your broken key. But we knew you didn't have a digital camera, so you were forgiven right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finale Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?: You wanna get murdered... quickly? Quickly? Or slowly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalpajazz Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Jazz +... the flexible metalic piece are all the equal, only the hammers are graded. I reduce the hardness of my P80 doubling slightly these flexible piece, so that they offer less resistance... although now the keys feel something less consistentes. (i not recommend to do this, because there is to disarm the 88 keys, and runs risk that to break some when removing the key from the frame) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 What do you mean when you say you reduced the hardness of your P80 doubling the flexible pieces? Did you put two in the place of one? Wouldn't that double the resistance making it harder? Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalpajazz Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I sorry, my explanation is confused because I write in Spanish and soon I translate to inglish with a software... the flexible piece is one by key, but it is modified so that this is left curve instead of straight line... causes that it offers less resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKeys Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I openend my Yamaha Motif 6 to replace a broken key and as I recall there 48 screws just to get to that puppy. It was an entire afternoon operation, that I hope I never have to do again. I still have 3 screw left if anybody needs them. Jimmy Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho NEW BAND CHECK THEM OUT www.steveowensandsummertime.com www.jimmyweaver.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 Thanks, I understand now. You slightly bent each "Y" shaped metal strip (hinge) so it would relax the resistance. I guess that would be hard to regulate precisely. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 dbl post Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.