Memorizing Songs (how do you make it?)

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

...If you are musically illiterate, it is a waste of everyone's time asking for tips on how to improve the task of memorization.)

Dave, I am sorry if I wasted your precious time. I was taking for granted that by now you would have wisely started to ignore my questions.

 

Regardless of what your opinion about my questions is, this is a public list. That entitles me to ask anything I feel like, provided I do it politely.

 

As stated on the very first post of this already long thread, I knew your answer long before I asked the question. I was interested in everybody else's answers, which by the way were rather nice.

 

Therefore I kindly ask you to ignore my postings, just like you do with all the other postings that do not fit your idea of musical interest. Have a nice day.

[Dave Horne]

Andre, if you can not read music, you should first state that little piece of information when you are asking for advice on how to memorize something.

 

If you can not read music, the best approach is simply to play what you want to memorize hundreds of times. After you can correctly play something at a playable tempo several times correctly in succession (from memory), you probably have nailed it.

 

If you can not read music, you then have to refresh your memory every day by playing everything that you wish to keep in memory, very time consuming.

 

That's about it. If you really can not read music, your options are very limited in asking for concrete advice. Am I stating the obvious here?

 

If you can not read music, what would it take for you to learn how to read music?

[Steve in KS]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

When I was in high school and college I had to perform from time to time without using music. I would use the 'finger memory' method along with various 'tricks', in other words, just the opposite of what I would recommend now. . . . . If you are musically illiterate, it is a waste of everyone's time asking for tips on how to improve the task of memorization.)

I learned to read music when I was growing up and played various instruments in band and orchestra (trumpet, baritone, french horn.) Switching to keyboards was quite a challenge since my monophonic reading ability was quite insufficient for sight reading keyboard literature.

Because almost none of the music I was interested in playing was available in any written form, learning to play by ear and memorization were far more important to me than honing my reading skills.

I have never been accused of wasting anyone's time among the musicians I have performed with, and I belive that poo-pooing all methods of memorization that don't involve notation is just snobbery.

I'm a little depressed that all of the time I thought I've been playing music, it turns out that I obviously don't know what the hell I'm doing and have survived using 'tricks.'

[MikeT156]

Steve:

 

Dave knows the best method for playing music is the ability to read, a position I agree with. Dave comes across like gang busters sometimes about the ability to read music, but I wouldn't take personal offense to his remarks. I believe you could substitute the word "talent" where he says "tricks".

 

Mike T.

[Dave Horne]

I will stand by my last post. If the initial poster in this thread had stated that he was musically illiterate, this thread would have been much shorter.

 

(I realize I could have written if the initial poster in this thread had stated that he could not read music, this thread would have been shorter. The second sentence sounds nicer but conveys the same exact sentiment.)

 

If you can not read music, your only method of memorizing is sheer repetition. You might also have created your 'own special language' to help you along, but in the long run, if you wish to memorize and communicate effectively with others in your field, learning to read music along with understanding musical theory is the only way to go.

 

So, if the initial poster had stated that he could not read music, what would have been your advice ... and were you aware that he could not read music when you responded?

[Dave Horne]

Because almost none of the music I was interested in playing was available in any written form, learning to play by ear and memorization were far more important to me than honing my reading skills.

I have never been accused of wasting anyone's time among the musicians I have performed with, and I belive that poo-pooing all methods of memorization that don't involve notation is just snobbery.

I'm a little depressed that all of the time I thought I've been playing music, it turns out that I obviously don't know what the hell I'm doing and have survived using 'tricks.'

I also think that learning to play by ear is important. I have done many record copies (transcribing musical information to manuscript paper) when I had to learn a song. Why spend money on sheet music when the information is free on the radio or a CD. The important difference is, you and I can read music. If you are in a pinch and you needed the music yesterday, you could always download sheet music and have a copy for a few dollars.

 

To repeat, when I was younger I relied on 'tricks' to help me memorize music. Now that I am older, I realize the best way to memorize is to analyse the piece, reducing the vast amount of musical information into bite sized chunks. If you disagree with what I just wrote, so be it.

 

The more theory (practical and theoretical) you possess, the easier it is to reduce music into smaller chucks of information. It now takes me much less time to either 'work up' a tune or memorize a tune because I have so many 'hooks' on which to 'hang' chunks of information. The more you know, the easier things become.

 

If you never learn to read, you will always be at a disadvantage.

[MikeT156]

I know a woman that has a "reading disorder", for the most part, she can't read anything. (I don't want to put put any other kind of "label" on her because she's such a nice person). She says the words on the page are scrambled in her mind's eye and can't make heads or tales of it. She's basically an intelligent person, but has to gain her knowledge frpm what she hears on TV (now there's some accuracy?) and what people tell her. I really feel sorry for her. It has made her life a lot more difficult, and she can't get any kind of decent paying job. Reading music may not be the same comparison, because I've seen very talented people nail songs after listening to them once or twice. But the majority of people aren't as talented as that, which includes yours truly. Getting formal training and being able to read music helped me a great deal. The thing is, if Andre or anyone else doesn't want to take the time to learn how to read music, beating him over the head with a verbal club won't change anything.

 

Mike T.

[Dave Horne]

The thing is, if Andre or anyone else doesn't want to take the time to learn how to read music, beating him over the head with a verbal club won't change anything.

I don't know.

 

My wife's cousin who has the back pain might wake up if three doctors tell her to see a physical therapist. She might realize that the pain killer injection route is just a quick fix and solves absolutely nothing.

 

But to repeat, if the initial poster had stated that he could not read music, what would have been your advice ... and were you aware that he could not read music when you responded?

[coyote]

In a vaguely-similar thread on a different MP forum I mentioned that the person involved might want to learn to read standard music notation as that person would then no longer be subject to the issues that spring from not reading. Unfortunately the subject is quite inflammatory, and there seems to be little way to advise that the illiterate learn to read without them getting highly offended and defensive. Every attempt will be made to deflect from the real issue rather than take responsibility for one's own unwillingness.... I say unwillingness because a person's presence on this Board indicates an ability to read/write in a given language so we can surmise the person in question is obviously intelligent enough to learn to read & write music.

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by MikeT156:

Reading music may not be the same comparison, because I've seen very talented people nail songs after listening to them once or twice... The thing is, if Andre or anyone else doesn't want to take the time to learn how to read music, beating him over the head with a verbal club won't change anything.

 

Mike T.

I disagree, Mike. It will change something: It will change my opinion regarding this list. It made me start to believe that people like me are not welcome and in fact this list is as elitist as it gets. Otherwise people would have reacted to Mr. Horne's postings.

 

Let's analyze what happened: The guy comes in, practically hijacks my thread (which clearly had another subject) by turning into one of his preaching sessions about studying musical notation and assumes it is OK to call someone illiterate (I could find plenty of slightly dismissive adjectives to patronize him too, but as you wrote before, this is not a pissing contest).

 

Not satisfied with that, he starts another thread in which he isolates the focus on what would it take for you to learn how to read conventional notation to fuel his crusade against the infidels, who he firmly believe should be converted either willingly or by preaching on them to oblivion.

 

Then to my astonishment and delusion I read answers from people that I respect very much, who wrote things such as In any case reading is a very useful skill & I find it perplexing that there are actually those who intentionally avoid development of the ability (posted by d) and ...It seems to me that sometimes, a few people tend to complicate simple concepts, mostly for laziness (posted by Marino). I get a little solace on the fact that Mr. Hornes maneuver of starting a new thread effectively kept people like d and Marino from observing that in my case (no intention to compose, absolutely no need to transpose, a gifted ear, etc.) the practical benefits of learning to sight read musical notation simply do not justify the effort and dedication required.

 

On top of all that, Mr. Horne blatantly wrote: Andre, if you can not read music, you should first state that little piece of information when you are asking for advice on how to memorize something.

 

I do not know everybody elses opinion, but my perception is that this is akin to Nazism. And nobody reacts. Perhaps Mr. Horne (who, either you guys like it or not, has entitled himself to direct how questions shall be posted in this list) would be satisfied if I added on all my future postings a disclaimer informing that I am musically illiterate, just like the Jewish star armband created by the Nazis...

 

He most recent of Mr. Hornes pearls was ...If the initial poster in this thread had stated that he was musically illiterate, this thread would have been much shorter. Which implies that musically illiterate posters like myself should strive to keep their threads short, so as not to annoy people like Dave Horne.

 

I suppose those reading this thread might think I am exaggerating and being defensive. Which makes me feel bad anyway. And fills Mr. Horne with a sense that he has the right to go on with his preaching every time someone manifests musical illiteracy.

[coyote]

Uhh, lemme get this straight. Because folks on this Forum did not take a stand in support of musical illiteracy, we are elitist?

Originally posted by Andre Lower:

I disagree, Mike. It will change something: It will change my opinion regarding this list. It made me start to believe that people like me are not welcome and in fact this list is as elitist as it gets. Otherwise people would have reacted to Mr. Horne's postings.

[Dave Horne]

The words Nazism and infidel used in the same post ... and in a keyboard forum nonetheless. I guess I'll have to work on my people skills.

 

Andre, if you were to invest as much time learning how to read conventional notation as you spend writing here, you would be well on the path to making memorization easier and faster.

 

Since you won't take advice from an ... elitist such as myself, I still wonder if this thread would have been so long if you had simply stated that you can not read music in the first place.

 

If you could read music, you wouldn't have to spend so much time trying to memorize it, you could simply glance at your cheat sheet once in a while and devote your time to more productive issues. You really would save so much time.

 

I am an elitist because I propose learning how to read as a solution for a problem. I suppose when all software becomes usable by voice command, the ability to write spoken language will be used only by elitists.

 

I will ask this though I know it will go unanswered ... Andre, what would it take for you to learn how to read conventional music notation? Simple question?

[MIDIdiot]

From Dave:

I guess I'll have to work on my people skills

I don't know anything about your people skills, Dave, but I don't think anything you have said in this thread has been out of line. I personally enjoy reading your posts and many of us have a lot to learn from guys like you. If not everyone wants/needs to, that's fine too. Sure there are guys on this forum who can't read and there are 'professors'. That's what makes this forum great. It's only natural some heads will but sometimes.

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by coyote:

Uhh, lemme get this straight. Because folks on this Forum did not take a stand in support of musical illiteracy, we are elitist?

Originally posted by Andre Lower:

I disagree, Mike. It will change something: It will change my opinion regarding this list. It made me start to believe that people like me are not welcome and in fact this list is as elitist as it gets. Otherwise people would have reacted to Mr. Horne's postings.

No Coyote, you read me wrong. I do not intend to get "support for illiteracy", but some opinion on whether someone should be patronized for being illiterate. And yes it feels like there is some elitism in the fact that nobody bothered to criticize Mr. Horne's handling of my question. After all, I am musically illiterate and thus my questions deserve to be handled this way (or so it seems, judging by most everybody's silence).

 

Anyway, I am not expecting a huge crowd to step up in my defense or something like that. I am just a little disappointed with the approval of the patronizing thing. But don't worry, I'll survive ...

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

The words Nazism and infidel used in the same post ... and in a keyboard forum nonetheless. I guess I'll have to work on my people skills.

Dave, it is rather easy to offend people first and then label their response as unbalanced. And if you honestly do not perceive even a hint of elitism in your suggestion that I should abide to the "musically illiterate armband thing", then we are both wasting our time writing to each other.

 

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

Andre, if you were to invest as much time learning how to read conventional notation as you spend writing here, you would be well on the path to making memorization easier and faster.

Dave, my time and what I chose to do with it is not of your concern. I wouldn't ever dare telling you what you should do with your time, and would appreciate if you kept your suggestions of what to do with mine to yourself.

 

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

I am an elitist because I propose learning how to read as a solution for a problem.

No, you are elitist because of your wording of your opinion. I wonder how would you react if I would patronize you on any other matter (the pissing contest thing again). How would it feel?

 

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

I will ask this though I know it will go unanswered ... Andre, what would it take for you to learn how to read conventional music notation? Simple question?

You seem to be deaf to my arguments and never willing to debate yours. Time and again I have made clear that my unwillingness to learn how to read conventional music notation stem from the fact that I was never shown a single example of application of this knowledge that would justify any effort in learning it IN VIEW OF MY GOALS. I do not compose. I play rock cover tunes. I don't ever intend to transpose any music. I never had a problem to communicate musically with any bandmate of several bands I've been with (tough musically literate people would scorn our communication means, it never kept us from understanding each other). My question is even simpler than yours is: What would it take for you to consider the matter viewed from my goals instead of yours?

 

That is what my antagonism is all about, Dave. Not what you are trying to make out of it.

[coyote]

I'm not a great sightreader anymore. And my skills erode as I use that facility less and less over time. But I do read, and given a minute can usually figure out what's on the page I'm viewing. But I feel terribly inadequate whenever I have a bit of trouble reading a piece of music.

 

I imagine you're feeling that same inadequacy right now. The difference is that I know that feeling of inadequacy is my own responsibility, and not the fault of those who might be experienced enough to show me a way to address that inadequacy.

Originally posted by Andre Lower:

I do not intend to get "support for illiteracy", but some opinion on whether someone should be patronized for being illiterate. And yes it feels like there is some elitism in the fact that nobody bothered to criticize Mr. Horne's handling of my question.

[MikeT156]

Hey Andre:

 

I certainly hope that anything I said offended you, that was never my intention. I believe you have the right to ask any question you like, and if you don't take someone's advice, that's your perogative. I think the thing about Dave Horne may be the WAY he says things sometimes, rather than what he says. I really don't have a problem with Dave myself, I usually agree with him, and I've been know to offend people without trying a number of times too. I don't think that Dave is trying to offend you, he's just a bit gruff at times. Other forums are a lot worse at being offensive, trust me. We all need to lighten up a little.

 

Mike T.

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by coyote:

...I feel terribly inadequate whenever I have a bit of trouble reading a piece of music.

 

I imagine you're feeling that same inadequacy right now.

For Christ's sake, why can't everybody understand what I am trying to write? I do not intend to read a piece of music. The title of the thread (before it was turned into something I never intended it to become) is "how do you memorize songs?". I sing while I am playing, and this alone rules out reading a score while I am playing, at least for me.

 

I must be living in Mars, because I've asked many keyboard players ("musically literate", BTW) if they used any theoretical/harmonic analysis on the fly, when they were actually playing a complicated cover song, and all were adamant in saying "No. It sure help me transpose, etc. in the process of learning the tune. But playing it faithfully means memorizing where you put your fingers. No musical analysis involved". Perhaps you guys would automatically patronize the players I asked too, but they do play songs that I'd love to and have a problem memorizing (for instance Bohemian Rhapsody). Why does it hurt so much to admit you must memorize the position of your hands? Is that considered a big sin for musically literate people? And if musical literacy always eliminate the need to memorize exact hand positions, would you please tell me how? Given the fact that I am busy singing and therefore cannot read a score while I am playing, could you enlighten me as to how musical literacy would eliminate the need for memorizing hand positions?

 

I am trying my best to be honest here, and sure would love to get someone to enlighten me about some benefit of learning musical notation and sight reading, as long as the person considered my particular case. I am humble enough (and believe me, I'm interested in hearing - that is why I started this thread) to welcome any tool if I can be shown it's practical benefit for my case.

[MIDIdiot]

Andre, if the singing/playing of BH is causing you an issue, have you considered having a piano player play while you sing?

[Dave Horne]

Time and again I have made clear that my unwillingness to learn how to read conventional music notation stem from the fact that I was never shown a single example of application of this knowledge that would justify any effort in learning it IN VIEW OF MY GOALS.

Since you can not read, you are really not in a position to evaluate the necessity of learning a skill that would take one day to learn. You will assume that is an elitist notion on my part, but that is based on a great deal of personal and professional experience. I have taught people the basics in learning both clefs - bass and treble - (actually it's really just one big clef which is separated into two) in a matter of minutes. It takes time to read music fluently, but the basics are really not complicated to master.

 

In an earlier post you asked for an example of how lofty harmonic analysis could help you with memorization. I gave an example and yet you make no reference to that. Why? Could you not read what I wrote?

I [iiø7 V7] of vi [ii7 V7] of IV ...

 

That was a perfect example of how to consolidate musical information. It included simple analysis and reduced the number of chunks of information to memorize.

 

Also, if someone has a known handicap it will help in tailoring the response. If you were to have eight or nine fingers instead of ten and wanted help on fingering, everyone would take that into consideration. (The arm band comment was not applicable - you think you are being persecuted but you are not. You are just refusing excellent advice - advice tailored to your handicap.) Being illiterate in music is a handicap. If you would have indicated that in your initial post and that you had no intention on learning how to learn to read, I probably would not have responded.

 

Good luck with your memorization problem. The only solution for you is repetition. I personally would find better ways to occupy my time.

 

This, some of you will be glad to read, will be my last post in this thread. I sincerely hope you consider the intent, though I am aware of paved roads and intentions.

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by InTheDark:

Andre, if the singing/playing of BH is causing you an issue, have you considered having a piano player play while you sing?

Hi InTheDark,

 

Yes I could have someone else playing it for me. But that is not my point. I took BoHap as an example only. I have problems memorizing other songs too, and am OK with the need to memorize the whole thing if I want to play and sing it (it was my choice, and if I wanna do it, it is up to me to learn how...). In fact I do just fine playing and singing most of the songs we cover, only the more complex ones pose a memorization problem (BoHap is the worst havent got to the point of memorizing the whole song yet...).

 

Then again I could benefit from your idea: If you would be the chosen piano player, and for some obscure reason I would prevent you from reading the score while you play it, how would you address the task of memorizing the whole song (including the opera-style part)?

[MIDIdiot]

Then again I could benefit from your idea: If you would be the chosen piano player, and for some obscure reason I would prevent you from reading the score while you play it, how would you address the task of memorizing the whole song (including the opera-style part)?

Well for that I would have to go with Dave Horne's aproach, understanding the chordal structure of the song. For the operatic part, another alternative would be to do what Queen used to do at their concerts, the operatic part was a recording of the record while the band left stage and a light show ensued. Then they would come back on for the rock ending.

[Jazz+]

For Andre the only option is lots of frequent

REPETITION.

 

For those more advanced in their studies,

HARMONIC ANALYSYS is the MEMORY PEG that the pros use.

[Andre Lower]

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

Since you can not read, you are really not in a position to evaluate the necessity of learning a skill that would take one day to learn. [/QB]

That means you will never be capable of evaluating the necessity of learning because, according to you, it is only possible to do so after learning it . As if nobody could assess the benefit of something beforehand.

 

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

You will assume that is an elitist notion on my part, but that is based on a great deal of personal and professional experience. I have taught people the basics in learning both clefs - bass and treble - (actually it's really just one big clef which is separated into two) in a matter of minutes. It takes time to read music fluently, but the basics are really not complicated to master.[/QB]

As if I ever asked the question "Is it hard to learn how to read music?" in the first place...

 

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

In an earlier post you asked for an example of how lofty harmonic analysis could help you with memorization. I gave an example and yet you make no reference to that. Why? Could you not read what I wrote?

I [iiø7 V7] of vi [ii7 V7] of IV ...[/QB]

Mr. Horne, elitist? Patronizing? Oh no, that is just the way his ideas come across sometimes ... Sorry MikeT, it seems that no matter how much you try to temporize, Mr. Horne has no intention of avoiding his own lack of "people skills".

 

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

That was a perfect example of how to consolidate musical information.[/QB]

Yes your example is perfect. Only it does not really serve the purpose of answering the question, being instead yet another sign of your intention of preaching, not talking. You could try saying something like "well Andre, you could try to use the song's root to help you associate with ...", but that would not be Dave Horne, who would not miss an opportunity to patronize&preach.

 

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

If you would have indicated that in your initial post and that you had no intention on learning how to learn to read, I probably would not have responded.[/QB]

 

OK Dave, now you know it: I cannot read music, and for the moment have no intention of learning to. So please keep it in mind whenever you see any post by someone named Andre Lower.

[Michelle ggurl]

Andre, man, I understand what you are asking. And yes, you ARE welcome here. Indulge me for a minute and let me see if I can say anything of any help to your situation at all ...

 

First let me say I am a proponent of learning to read music and learning some theory. it's served me well. But heck, you know what has served me even more?

 

A GOOD EAR AND A GOOD MEMORY.

 

Yeah, man. I've played in many bands where reading was not only de-emphasized, it was something few if any other band members could do. I've played with people who've cowritten and played on platinum-selling records and some of these people can't read a note. I'm not stating this to brag about my fortuitous collisions or their abilities. I'm trying to add perspective from real experience ... I'd hardly call these cats "unprofessional." The gigs I got with them, which got me better opportunities, I got because of my ability to memorize songs ... that I never notated. Not even solos I've played note for note off a record.

 

Only basic theory got me there (I know more than basic, but I know what I had to employ to get the job done was basic). Like, "what blues scale do you play over that 2-chord progression?" Very basic.

 

I've never tried to play Bohemian Rhapsody, but I can hear it in my head now ... I would say, you have to start big and get small. This is what I would do given the process I recall using to learn "Camera Eye," by Rush. I use that example because it's a long song with lots of parts. Actually it works for simple tunes, but holds up for something like "Camera Eye":

 

1. Note the overall movement of the song. You could count the number of bars for the intro, number of bars for the verse, label section A, B, C, etc.

 

2. Pick out the chords in the song. Bass note will help here. By bar, by beat, maybe something like this:

 

...//...//...

| Bb Am| 8x --> [2 beats of each chord, progression happens 8 times; hash marks are supposed to be over the chords to designate beats]

 

3. Read your chart along with the record. then play along with the record [chords only], make sure your chart is right.

 

4. Figure out your individual parts. You will make certain connections in your mind automatically as you go, even if you can't express them theoretically.

 

If you need to take this chart with you to the gig, you do. Chances are you will practice it with the band and wean off it after a half-dozen times or so.

 

For what you want to do, this process is probably all you need. If you want to grow further, or find there are pieces you want to play that this just doesn't work for you, you'll need to fill in the gaps with learnin' of theory and/or reading, enough to be practical to your sitation. It doesn't have to be painful, man.

 

My .02. I hope it helps.

[kad]

Ok, this may come off sounding VERY elitist, and I'll do my best not to make it so...

 

I do happen to have perfect pitch and as such, I could have easily gotten by my entire musical career without learning a single thing about theory or notation. However, I chose to learn theory - very thoroughly. I devoted countless hours to reading every book on the subject I could possibly get my hands on. To this day, I am still eager for any new insight that comes along. My reason was simple - I was totally in love with music and I wanted to learn everything I possibly could about it. It is a decision that has served me VERY well.

 

As a composer and arranger, knowing theory was particularly valuable for me. However, even if you have no intention of doing anything other than learning note-for-note renditions of rock cover tunes (a perfectly respectable goal BTW), you may find that whole new worlds of possibilities open up for you if you spend a bit of time becoming familiar with the internal structure of the tunes you are playing. There is a genuine feeling of satisfaction, enjoyment and **security** associated with understanding the 12 notes and their harmonic relationships to each other. Once you become aware of the underlying order in the rock chops you play, you might find that you have a whole new love and enthusiasm for playing. It really does work!

 

The purpose of learning theory is never to "crunch numbers" while performing. To the contrary, the objective is to internalize it so well that it simply becomes a part of you - one that requires no conscious mental effort. If you try to "theoretically create" that C7b9#9b5#5 chord you are about to play, it will be long past before you even derive the shell voicing! However, if you've thoroughly internalized this knowledge, finding this chord becomes automatic. A sort of "mystical" connection to the keyboard evolves over time. Once this happens, memorization becomes a breeze! Just keep in mind that theory is first and foremost just a tool with which to create mathematical models describing what we have historically ordained as "good sounding" combinations of notes. Never allow theoretical priciples to become "laws" that stiffle your creativity...

 

Being a civil engineer, you are most likely very intelligent and have strong analytic skills. You may find that theory is right up your alley - exercising both your creative and analytic capacities! At the very least, why not give it a shot just to find out what all the hubbub is about!

 

I hope you accept this advice in the spirit in which it is intended - not as a condemnation but rather as an invitation!!

 

Take Care!

 

Kirk

[Jazz+]

Andre, I am wondering, do you know chords? Do you know what the chord progression is for Bohemiam R.?

[Michelle ggurl]

Great post, Kad.

[Andre Lower]

Thanks Kad and Jazz++, you have also contributed and I had not read you when I originally posted the answer below.

 

Good! InTheDark and Geekgurl are actually helping me out. My sincere thanks to both of you, for trying some real help and for bringing the thread back to its original focus.

 

Now you got my attention!

 

INTheDark mentioned understanding the chordal structure of the song. I suppose that means something like "this part is in a minor key, with an occasional 7th note in some chords, etc". Am I guessing right? If so, how would knowing that help on the memorization problem? If I am totally out of the cue, please clarify.

 

Geekgurl's example of "The Camera Eye" was very good, and I can contribute the following: I have every single chord of BoHap already nailed (good ear, believe me) and sure remember the overall movement of the song and the order of the parts. And I could right a very basic chart (I know the notation symbols and with some effort could convert them into hand positions, provided I exercise this ability a little).

 

However there will be a lot of chords in this "customized fake book", and to make matters worse I will be really hard pressed trying to read even this simple "memory aid" while I play such a dynamic song and sing along.

 

I understand your reference to the fact that "over time I will make certain connections in your mind automatically as I go", but only if I am reading my cheat chart...

 

I am glad that you guys are trying to help, but it seems that the only manner to do it is through sheer memorization. Boy, I wonder how so many keyboard players who also sing remember all their chords and frills. Singing to a simple bass line or basic rhythmic guitar chop your hands are playing sounds feasible, but then remembering all the details of BoHap's piano line and singing like Freddie used to do...

[Michelle ggurl]

OK, well, then you are on the right track. Yes, what's left is memorization. Not sure your chords would have to be "customized" alot, though. Maybe post some examples? Are you looking for a way to express them on your chart [chord names, or movement, like arpeggio or ...]? Can you give a specific example of what's hanging you up?