Jazz+ Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I played a jazz standards trio gig tonight with the PLG-150AP installed in my Motif Rack. I split the keyboard and played bass with my left hand and the User 01: CF3 Grand with the right. The trio was rounded out with a straight ahead very mellow toned jazz guitarist and a soft drummer. The room was a medium sized carpeted banquet hall. I used a Roland FP2 digital piano as a controller and a pair of powered 500 watt EV SXa360 PA speakers. I was disapointed by the slightly murky sound produced by the PLG-150AP "User 01: CF3 Grand." I often do this same gig with my Yamaha P250 and the PLG-150AP did not have nearly the same clarity as the P250. The mid range (octave below and above Middle C and octave above) was strange, slightly hollow and murky. After 45 minutes my ears and head got tired and I switched back to my Motif's "Vintage 74" (Rhodes) and it was a relief. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I personally have run into situations with my previous keyboard (a Roland A80) where I thought I was playing one patch only to discover that I had two modules playing at the same time and that was the cause for the chorus effect. You mentioned a chorus effect, could that have been the cause? No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Originally posted by Jazz+: [QB] I sometimes do this same gig with my Yamaha P250 and the PLG-150AP did not have nearly the same clarity as the P250. [QB]How giggable is the P250? I'm starting to think the P250 might be a nice keyboard to have for a master too, but I'm discouraged by its reported lack of dynamics over MIDI (to other racks and keyboards) which the P120 and P80 also suffer from. Also is there enough space on the P250 for a keyboard like my Motif 7? I have a friend interested in buying a P120 so might be the ideal time to make the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Originally posted by orangefunk: How giggable is the P250? I'm starting to think the P250 might be a nice keyboard to have for a master caught ya redhanded orangefunk. Don't you be doing anything silly now. There's a PM3 with your name on it out there somewhere. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resigned Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Suggestion: before returning the PLG150-AP try adjusting the velocity curve on your Motif Rack. I found this makes a big difference in tonality with the AP card. The PLG150-AP is one of the softest piano emulations I've ever heard, which is a little uncharacteristic for Yamaha pianos which are normally fairly bright, but it's not uncharacteristic of a really nice grand piano which this card is emulating. I believe the "CF3Grand" piano sounds best in a solo performance but it's too soft to play above any other instruments unless you play the keys hard all of the time... that's why adjusting the velocity curve may help. The second patch "CF3Bright" is better for ensemble playing and is more typical of Yamaha pianos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 How giggable is the P250? I use it on jobs. The flight case for my P250 is actually lighter than the case I had for my Roland A80. I had my case made by a local store and asked for thinner material to keep it light. It's a big, bulky affair but I manage with it quite well. I do not lift the P250 out of the case myself to prevent back problems (I'm 54), but the size and weight do not prevent me from using it. (The length of my flight case comes to 146 cm or 57".) No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Originally posted by gangsu: Originally posted by orangefunk: How giggable is the P250? I'm starting to think the P250 might be a nice keyboard to have for a master caught ya redhanded orangefunk. Don't you be doing anything silly now. There's a PM3 with your name on it out there somewhere.Guilty as charged! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 I forgot to mention that the finger/key to sound response was a little slower with this PLG in a Motif Rack than my P250. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r33k Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Sounds to me like the mono-compatibility problem that many higher-end sampled pianos suffer from. Were you summing the left and right outputs from your Motif Rack to mono for amplification? That would explain why low and high notes sounded okay (because they're largely panned to one side or another), while mid range notes sounded phasey and indistinct. How does the sound change if you take only one output from the Motif to the amplifier, or monitor in stereo? Best, r33k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Jazz+ Sorry to hear about that less than stellar experience. It almost sounds like you were playing the raw samples!!! Hmmmmm!!! Did you load the voices into the MoRack? aL Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyprof Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by orangefunk: Also is there enough space on the P250 for a keyboard like my Motif 7? I don't know how deep the Motif 7 is but there is about 8.5 inches (depth) of perfectly flat territory on top of the P250. My 10-inch deep laptop sits there comfortably. In fact, I think there's so much flat real estate on top of the P250 that your drummer and bassist might be tempted to set their drinks atop of it! Compare that to the highly tilted control panel on the Promega3 which makes it impossible to stack anything on it. So, even though gangsu says there is a PM3 with your name on it somewhere, your name is about the only thing you can put on it! "Playing the piano is my greatest joy, next to my wife; it is my most absorbing interest, next to my work." ...Charles Cooke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisheye Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by jazzyprof: ... there is about 8.5 inches (depth) of perfectly flat territory on top of the P250. My 10-inch deep laptop sits there comfortably. In fact, I think there's so much flat real estate on top of the P250 that your drummer and bassist might be tempted to set their drinks atop of it! I can't help but thinking: what's in the P250 that makes it that big and heavy? Aren't the keys about the same as the other P-series? I mean, my Kawai MP9500 is just as heavy and very big, but well, it has long wooden keys. But what's in that P250? I remember opening up a Fatar SL-880 and being surprised it was just lots of empty space in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay da cop Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 As far as space on top of the P250 for the Motif 7, my QS7.1 used to sit on top of my P200 nicely. Of course I shut off the internal speakers, and that took up most of the room so others were less likely to set drinks on it. BTW, I got rid of the P200 due to weight. It's just too heavy to carry around all the time. It sounded great though. I miss the sound. I got a Motif rack to replace it, and am looking at the PLG, so this thread really caught my eye. If you get this resloved, I am interested in how you did it. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by jazzyprof: even though gangsu says there is a PM3 with your name on it somewhere, your name is about the only thing you can put on it! Funny you should mention that. I've thought of finding somebody who does gun stock checkering, and having him personalize it for me. My name, or something. I don't know what kind of wood that is, though. Probably not walnut. other than that, I can lay sheetmusic on the panel and see without my glasses!! bonus. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Originally posted by capnzoot: I want gangsu to switch a patch in mid stream and watch one of the section faders send her sheet music across the room...HAHAH. ...next Getting back to orangefunk, my reason for jumping on this thread. He's got a clangy p120 that his woman refuses to play. I just want to say, dont worry about auditioning this baby before you buy. How can you go wrong? Just bring her home, and get to know her. You don't need some salesjerks opinion on her performance, not to mention knowing his hands were everywhere.. Something tells me you'd make a good team, cover a lot of territory. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 sorry Zoot, the topless bar's your visual, not mine. I'm talking about the special relationship between some people and their instrument. A kind of cosmic dialogue, or a dance, an embrace... whatever it is, it's not measured in inches and pounds. It's metaphysical bordering on physical. Add a couple of other musicians who get it, and it can be downright orgiastic. orangefunk knows what I'm talking about, otherwise I wouldn't care. But look! I've interrupted a thread and eric's nowhere in sight. Slacker! "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by gangsu But look! I've interrupted a thread and eric's nowhere in sight. Slacker! Hey! I'm not a moderator here! I shall not chastise thee! It is not within my purview to call out thread interruptions! Unless we are playing an A-B-C game with musical instruments and it falls out of order. That will snap me to attention to bring in the editorial remarks! Regards, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by eric: It is not within my purview to call out thread interruptions! you really are the alphabet deputy. I had to dig out the dictionary before I could respond to your post! P is for Purview: the range or limit of authority. Gotcha! thanks, eric! "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefunk Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by gangsu: Originally posted by eric: It is not within my purview to call out thread interruptions! you really are the alphabet deputy. I had to dig out the dictionary before I could respond to your post! P is for Purview: the range or limit of authority. Gotcha! thanks, eric! Damn that is good... and I was just thinking of a context in which I can use the word "orthogonal" (a great buzzword atm in software engineering) in an effort to look intellectual... P250.. must resist... PM3... PM3... PM3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirumamoru Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Originally posted by orangefunk:How giggable is the P250? I'm starting to think the P250 might be a nice keyboard to have for a master too, but I'm discouraged by its reported lack of dynamics over MIDI (to other racks and keyboards) which the P120 and P80 also suffer from. Also is there enough space on the P250 for a keyboard like my Motif 7? I have a friend interested in buying a P120 so might be the ideal time to make the move.[/QB]There isn't enough room on top of the P-250 for a Motif 7. The synth is just too deep. I know, because my ES 7 is sitting with the front end on top of the P-250, and the back end on a keyboard stand (sounds less stable than it is). Kiru My other synth forum is Harmony Central . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Originally posted by Kirumamoru: the P-250.. sounds less stableyou got that right now excuse me, but this is the communion thread. ...PM3... "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 actually, i'ts the orthogonal communion thread. It has a transpose with which the product equals the identity matrix. think about it. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMcM Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Originally posted by capnzoot: To Orangefunk Back to orangefunk: Do not expect to get groped by Paul or Dave.True, I save all the groping for my wife. Dave Oh yeah, in keeping with the current rules of the forum; Hello, my name is Dave McMahan, and I am a manufacturers rep. Well, actually more of a product specialist. No, more like a musician that has owned many of the popular and not so popular keyboards since the Minimoog and is now sometimes over-enthusiastic about the job I have and the cool instruments that I get to work with. And truly enjoys helping people out when they have a question or problem with their instrument of any brand. NOTE: All joking aside, I want to follow the rules. I have purposely not included the name of the company I work for since the topic of this thread regards another manufacturer. If it is not cool that I even show up here, I am sure I will get the word. Peace Wm. David McMahan I Play, Therefore I Am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 LOL. Don't worry Dave, stick with me and you'll get absolutely nowhere. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 People! It's not the destination, it's the ride. How do I sign up for group anonymity? "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyprof Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 OK guys, gals, can we stay on topic for a moment? Now, what was the original topic again?...(scratches head) "Playing the piano is my greatest joy, next to my wife; it is my most absorbing interest, next to my work." ...Charles Cooke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 I think the PLG-150AP is very sensitive to the problems that plague stereo sound systems when played live. It sounds pretty good in headphones, but live if you get off axis even slightly it gets weird. Yes, they included a mono patch but it's not very good. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicaL Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 The more I play the AP plug board, the more I like it. Although it does have some funny artifacts when pushed to its limits (velocity wise) but, that's not a problem for me since my playing style is rather soft... The stereo thing is a whole other problem. It seems to me you run your live rig in stereo and solve that problem!! May not be as easy as it sounds, but that's what I'd do!! aL Gear: Yamaha MODX8, Mojo 61, NS2 73, C. Bechstein baby grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirumamoru Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Originally posted by gangsu: Originally posted by Kirumamoru: the P-250.. sounds less stableyou got that right now excuse me, but this is the communion thread. ...PM3... Why, I have no idea what you're talking about. As it happens, I keep my P-250 on an LP3 stand and it is quite stable. Kiru My other synth forum is Harmony Central . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOPBEEPER Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 I wish GEM would have put out a few plug in boards.Then I might not have sold my Pro Mega 2. When the mother board was replaced in the PM2 I noticed it had about four vacant daughter board slots in it. Now Ive got an S90 with an AP board and I find it plays and sounds prety good.Maybe the PM2 would have been beter If I'd got me 15 band sterio graphic EQ.(Hey remember the Eighties when every consumer grade HI FI came with a graphic EQ?) Gangsu, Dose your (nine band) PM3 sound different now its sharp key lips have been lovingly sanded down? I had this fantasy the other day about spraying the black notes on my piano white! Whada you think? I are an *******(CENSORED) too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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