daBowsa Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 I don't think this will "finish" her career. She has a reality TV show and several videos in rotation on MTV. That's where her "fans" get their news and information from - not staying up late past their Saturday night bath to see her on an adult comedy sketch show. Those fans are used to seeing her lipsync videos and shopping mall performances. The real question is, if she had turned the mic on and started singing after the mixup, would that have done more damage to her "career" than getting caught cheating? What's worse, sucking or syncing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulliver Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 "What's worse, sucking of syncing?" Good question! I am back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix. Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Originally posted by dabowsa: I don't think this will "finish" her career. She has a reality TV show and several videos in rotation on MTV. That's where her "fans" get their news and information from - not staying up late past their Saturday night bath to see her on an adult comedy sketch show. Those fans are used to seeing her lipsync videos and shopping mall performances. The real question is, if she had turned the mic on and started singing after the mixup, would that have done more damage to her "career" than getting caught cheating? What's worse, sucking of syncing?I hope she wasn't looking forward to a lengthy career. Even without this major screw-up, her time in the spotlight was probably limited anyway. It'll only be a matter of minutes until someone else's little sister gets her own TV show or some crappy CD. It's not like Ashlee's career track is exactly known for longevity, because Nickelodeon and Disney Channel are always ready for the next kid "star." Ashlee is just lucky that her big sister got lucky, and that she's cute enough for the short dose of fame she's currently receiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 To me, the biggest blame should fall on her handlers, who didn't properly assess the risks of putting a packaged product such as Ashlee Simpson on live TV. This video is everywhere today (Mon)...I've seen it at least a dozen times on the TV news and entertainment shows....often accompanied with derisive comments. Two days later and this is not going away...in fact it seems to be gaining momentum. Her career is toast. If any good comes from this, I hope it will be less dependence on recorded lead vocals from other acts when they're out there on stage. I don't think anyone ccould get away with it now anyway...everyone's paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calumet Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 It's funny...just a couple weeks ago I tuned in to SNL just as Queen Latiffa was SINGING and really tearing it up! I guess I didn't know she had a voice like that (I didn't see "Chicago"). Talk about a contrast a couple weeks later! My band Thousand Houses: www.thousandhouses.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daBowsa Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 I just realized that we should be pissed at SNL. Who cares about a teeny-bopper and her vocal inadequicies...but the integrity of Saturday Night *LIVE* is at stake here. I guess they're just broadcasting what is happening "live" on their stages, and I guess they actually want the acts to lip-sync if they're not any good, so perhaps that adds to the problem. However, I think SNL needs to raise the bar. Hiring lip-syncing wannabe's just to get an extra point or two of ratings from a few pre-teen fans doesn't seem like a smart decision. I'm considering not watching the show until they try and convince me that future musical (and possibly skit) acts won't be intentionally deceiving me. After all, they announced that the Red Sox won the first game of the World Series on their Weekend Update, just minutes after it was official, so they give the impression of really being live...but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELP71 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Originally posted by hermanjoe: [QBLets see some of you guys play saturday night live. They only people who should be juding are those who have actually done it. Its easy to sit behind a computer and type shit about somebody.[/QB]Absurd. Have you seen the clip? Weasels ripped my flesh. Rzzzzzzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanjoe Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 That's ludicrous. You don't have to have played Saturday Night Live, or even a club, or even be a musician to object to the deceit of a "musician" who is lip-syncing to a tape, nor to condemn the utter lack of character of such a person who would blame her band for "playing the wrong song" after having been exposed for the complete fraud she is. The fact is for every fraud like Ashlee Simpson making oodles of money pretending to play music, there's a gifted musician out there who could tear Saturday Night Live up with no technological aid whatsoever, and it's offensive that she's taking up their slot because she has connections and looks good in leather pants. Its funny because thats the attitude that keeps a lot of musicians out of the loop of success. Frankly I don't really care about this topic, and i thought that 'gifted musicians" probably wouldn't eith. I was actually playing a gig when SNL was on. I'm pointing out a few things, but I leave to the 'masters" to figure out. Good luck. I'm going to practice or gig. Something better than this. "Learn the changes, then forget them." -Charlie Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by hermanjoe: That's ludicrous. You don't have to have played Saturday Night Live, or even a club, or even be a musician to object to the deceit of a "musician" who is lip-syncing to a tape, nor to condemn the utter lack of character of such a person who would blame her band for "playing the wrong song" after having been exposed for the complete fraud she is. The fact is for every fraud like Ashlee Simpson making oodles of money pretending to play music, there's a gifted musician out there who could tear Saturday Night Live up with no technological aid whatsoever, and it's offensive that she's taking up their slot because she has connections and looks good in leather pants. Its funny because thats the attitude that keeps a lot of musicians out of the loop of success. Frankly I don't really care about this topic, and i thought that 'gifted musicians" probably wouldn't eith. I was actually playing a gig when SNL was on. I'm pointing out a few things, but I leave to the 'masters" to figure out. Good luck. I'm going to practice or gig. Something better than this.Funny, I thought it was the other way around... people like Ashley getting media coverage meaning that others dont - the bandwidth is limited... This isn´t just a blooper that only people in the music business care about anymore, it´s everywhere! This may be the first time since Milli Vanilli that someone actually can get in trouble for lip syncing. Or failing to do so... I definately care about this, since it could affect who gets the next career opportunity. Lately the major companies have launched a lot of crap artists (Ashley, Jessica, Ozzy´s daughter) that cannot pull it off in real life; maybe if the record companies start getting the feeling that this is not a very good investment something good will come from it, and they´ll sign capable people. Lord knows there´s a LOT of great singers out there that deserve attention. Stuff like this may affect my working situation, maybe not a lot but a little is better than nothing at all, just my .02... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiospace Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by hermanjoe: Its funny because thats the attitude that keeps a lot of musicians out of the loop of success. What attitude is that? That's it's not okay to cheat and lip-sync? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanjoe Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Guys, All I'm saying is It doesn't really affect me at all. I'm a Jazz player and will probably never do SNL. I wrote off teen pop a long awhiloe ago, as far as I'm concerned whatever happens in that genre is fine with me. I'm just trying to promote an anti-bashing attitude. Everyone gets very defensive about things because they think "that should be me" and you may be right. We may never know. My attitude is that if it doesn't affect me I won't attack it. If your a very negative person people won't want to work with you and that is a fact no matter what you play or lip-sync to. "Learn the changes, then forget them." -Charlie Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiospace Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 The only person in this thread I wouldn't want to work with is *you*, Hermanjoe, for your condenscension, your sarcasm, and your holier-than-thou attitude, which essentially boils down to the fact that you're a "Jazz Player" so it's beneath you to have an opinion about pop music. The bottom line is what you're sticking up for is not a musician who put on a bad show, but a fraud who was rightfully exposed to the light of day. There's nothing negative about that; it's good and just. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanjoe Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 The only person in this thread I wouldn't want to work with is *you*, Hermanjoe, for your condenscension, your sarcasm, and your holier-than-thou attitude, which essentially boils down to the fact that you're a "Jazz Player" so it's beneath you to have an opinion about pop music. The bottom line is what you're sticking up for is not a musician who put on a bad show, but a fraud who was rightfully exposed to the light of day. There's nothing negative about that; it's good and just. Wow. And I thought I was being nice... "Learn the changes, then forget them." -Charlie Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiospace Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 If that's your version of being "nice" you need to go back and re-read Miss Manners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanjoe Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Hey I never insulted you guys. I was just trying to stop this useless bashing. Lets just agree to disagree and call it at that. "Learn the changes, then forget them." -Charlie Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 She was on SNL to sell records and tickets to future shows. She (and her management) does that by putting on an entertaining act. To that end, it doesn't matter whether she actually sings right then or not, as long as what comes out of your TV is her voice. I think many musicians confuse what she (and many like her) does with what they do. She is performing to sell a product (like a car salesman performs to sell a car). Some people sell records by putting on a good show, and others sell them by being good musicians. What is the difference between lip-syncing and playing programmed sequences or playing to a click track so that everyone stays in time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanjoe Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 JM, What you say is true. a lot of backing tracks are used. My friend does is an engineer for a major new enland sound company and many of the touring acts are using backing tracks. I don't know about lead vocals but definatley backing vocals, percussion, you name it. "Learn the changes, then forget them." -Charlie Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanS Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Just caught 2 secs of her on some awards show. They stressed 'a live performance'. I can see why they pump in her vocals. Classy dresser too. What we record in life, echoes in eternity. Montage M7, MOXF8, Electro 6D, XK1c, Motif XS Rack, PolyEvolver, Voyager, Cobalt 8X, Univox MiniKorg. https://www.abandoned-film.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prague Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by hermanjoe: ...many of the touring acts are using backing tracks. I don't know about lead vocals but definatley backing vocals, percussion, you name it.Who are all of these acts? Can we get a list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanjoe Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Well, I know Smashmouth was one. I'd have to check with my friend one more bands but he said it is very common. The problem is people want to hear exactly whats on the cd sometimes, depending on the artist of course. I will ask him and try to get back on it. "Learn the changes, then forget them." -Charlie Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanS Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 It's been going on for a long time. I saw Sting's Mercury Falling tour a few years back, and I'm certain his backing vox were pumped. At one point Dominic Miller didn't get to his mic in time, and magically his voice sounded through the PA. What we record in life, echoes in eternity. Montage M7, MOXF8, Electro 6D, XK1c, Motif XS Rack, PolyEvolver, Voyager, Cobalt 8X, Univox MiniKorg. https://www.abandoned-film.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanjoe Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 yeah there was an article in keyboard awhile back and sting's keyboardist Kipper was talking about all the sequences he runs in logic for their live show. "Learn the changes, then forget them." -Charlie Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I've screwed up a thousand times on stage. You smile, pick up the piece, and move on. I've done gigs where the lead singer had laryngitis, and we all had to take turns faking our way through songs making up lyrics as we went along. We never shrugged our shoulders and slinked off stage. Why didn't they just stop, admit the mistake, laugh about it, and play another song? One that she actually sings? The audience wasn't giving her a hard time - yet. She could have endeared herself to them, but she chose to walk out. No class. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnegrad Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by dabowsa: I just realized that we should be pissed at SNL. ...but the integrity of Saturday Night *LIVE* is at stake here. However, I think SNL needs to raise the bar. I'm considering not watching the show until they try and convince me that future musical (and possibly skit) acts won't be intentionally deceiving me.dabowsa, I think you're a bit naive. There is no integrity on television. SNL is just another product, just like the "teeny boppers" you complain about. Here's a little insight into SNL's so called "integrity": Months ago, after years of excellent playing, SNL fired most of their regular horn players because they were told that they didn't look young enough. So please don't look for integrity there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analogaddict Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by hermanjoe: yeah there was an article in keyboard awhile back and sting's keyboardist Kipper was talking about all the sequences he runs in logic for their live show.There´s a HUGE difference between using backing tracks for a live show and lip synching. If you have a production that features a lot of reason stuff and samples and loops you might as well put it on a backing track, the drummer will probably still have to play to a click. The Toto guys did the same thing for some of their songs, heck, even Chaka Khan used backing tracks from time to time. What separates these artists from the subject of this thread is that they are competent musicians who can play, which obviously is more than you can say about Ashlee. And as for this not affecting you as a jazz player, you bet it does! Raising the bar in all kinds of music is a good thing. Kids who want to get famous today need a couple of things; looks, prescence, moves - the vocals can be "fixed" in the studio. What happens when it backfires is something like what we´ve just seen, and maybe in a distant future, record company executives (if they´re still around) will feel that they want people who can pull it off live on the stage. Today, when an artist can actually sing, people seem a bit shocked by it, the standards have been lowered significantly the last decades. They have put a lot of money in project Ashley, and it didn´t pay off. That´s great, if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moj Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Here's her response on the incident (from IMDb). Sounds like alot of BS spin, but the damage is already done... IMDb Ashlee Simpson Owns Up To Lip-Syncing Ashlee Simpson has owned up to lip-syncing, following an embarrassing Saturday night slip-up on live TV. The brunette singer, younger sister of Jessica Simpson, made an appearance on long-running comedy show Saturday Night Live, where she performed her hit single "Pieces Of Me." But when she was due to sing "Autobiography" track later on in the show, a pre-recorded track of her voice singing Pieces of Me began playing while Simpson was holding her microphone to the side and had her mouth closed - forcing her to exit the stage. And while she initially blamed her band for the incident, she now writes on her website that her voice was overworked. She says, "I'll hold my head high and say I think it was silly of me to do it, silly of me to blame the band, I was just so f**king embarrassed. But I don't think it did me much harm, and people will see that soon." A Saturday Night Live spokesperson says Simpson had planned to use a backing track, a common concert aid which allows singers to either mime or sing along with a guide-vocal track, to augment her voice. A statement from Simpson's record label blamed a "computer glitch" which triggered "a cut from her album" to play instead of a drum cue. The blunder has been all the more embarrassing for Simpson, because she recently expressed her disapproval of lip-syncing in an interview with Lucky magazine, explaining, "I'm totally against it and offended by it. I'm going to let my real talent show, not just stand there and dance around. Personally, I'd never lip- sync. It's just not me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELP71 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Hilarious. Weasels ripped my flesh. Rzzzzzzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnegrad Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Gotta love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnegrad Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Gotta love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Rhythm Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Well, they got me to watch last night. I figured she would sing live no matter what, and she did. Maybe it was supposed to sound the way it did, but it didn't sound very good to me. Maybe she'll get better. Singing with a live bad is totally different than in a studio. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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