Roland Owners

[Vincepro]

Or is the Fantom XR worth twice as much?

[Vincepro]

haha, you guys are making this decision tougher for me..Now I'm having second thoughts. So basically it comes down to a Roland 5080 for 700 dollars verses a Fantom XR for about 1350...I already have a XP30 with 5 expansion boards, I was hoping that the 5080 would give me access to a lot more sounds that the XP30 didnt. Most of you guys seem to agree that the 5080 doesnt offer any new sounds but just the same sounds with higher quality. But there seem to be SRX cards that ARENT simply recycled jv sounds right?

 

You guys are also saying that the Fantom XR has ALL NEW stock samples even though it uses the same SRX cards? Sorry to keep asking these questions but Roland is not doing a good job of giving this info out...Thanks

[Vincepro]

haha, you guys are making this decision tougher for me..Now I'm having second thoughts. So basically it comes down to a Roland 5080 for 700 dollars verses a Fantom XR for about 1350...I already have a XP30 with 5 expansion boards, I was hoping that the 5080 would give me access to a lot more sounds that the XP30 didnt. Most of you guys seem to agree that the 5080 doesnt offer any new sounds but just the same sounds with higher quality. But there seem to be SRX cards that ARENT simply recycled jv sounds right?

 

You guys are also saying that the Fantom XR has ALL NEW stock samples even though it uses the same SRX cards? Sorry to keep asking these questions but Roland is not doing a good job of giving this info out...Thanks

[mildbill]

Thanks a lot guys...Well I also own a Korg MS2000R, Triton Rack, Proteus 2500 expanded (which I want to get rid of) , Waldorf Micro Q, XP30....

 

The reason I'm after a 5080 is because I find the Roland sounds very inspiring and I'm not really into tweaking sounds...

ok, so you've got other stuff, a loaded up xp30, and want to upgrade.

 

i'm wondering what you plan to do with the xp30?

do you want to be able to use the expansion boards in the 5080, or will you sell the xp30 with them?

are you willing to start over expanding the XR, or would you rather keep your boards and put them in a 5080

 

an xv5080 (and 4 cd-roms for it) are the only roland stuff i've owned, so i can't comment on the differences in the base rom.

[Song80s]

hey Vince, you should be able to get the XR for $1140

 

a more important question is the $700 you are using for a 5080. Is that the best use of $700 ? Are you going to be happy with a 5080 for 2-3 years ? Is $440 a big difference and are you getting a lot more for that ?

 

That is why I sold my 3080 and got the XR. I believe I am set for 2-3 years and I like what i got for $1140

[Vincepro]

I want to keep the XP 30 because I know my way around the board and can work very fast around it...I do commercial rap & r&b production along with film score projects and the main reason for me to spend 700 dollars right now is only because I want access to more quality presets....I love Roland sounds. I also have a fully loaded Gigastudio with massive libraries so the issue here isn't that I have huge holes to fill...I just want quick access to quality sounds that I cant get on the XP30...So the question is this: Will spending an extra 440 dollars on a Fantom XR versus a 5080 give me a considerable amount of new sounds to work with? I plan on maxing either one of them out with expansion cards....I'm usually not one to keep switching products every few years, I like learning the unit and keepin it forever if I like it and can work with it. I was thinking that 700 dollars for a 5080 was a great deal and that the Fantom XR doesn't really offer anything I have to have this minute and pay top dollar for....BUT, if the Fantom XR gives me hundreds of NEW sounds that I can't get anywhere else, then maybe I should spend the extra 440?

[Vincepro]

Also, where are you seeing a Fantom XR for 1100?

[Song80s]

at my local music store in the San francisco area. I think that was cost plus 5 or 10 % I preordered/prepaid my XR in Feb and received it in April.

 

shop around and work the price,

 

Like i mentioned before, why don't you check out the Fantom X sound quality at a music store ?

[Bill H.]

Roland completely revamped their waveform ROM beginning with the Fantom S, although there are a few holdovers from the XV-Fantom 76 series. I'm into raw waveforms because I do a lot of custom patches. If you're more of a preset guy, I think there's a patch and performance list for both the XV-5080 and Fantom XR at RolandUS and/or RolandUK.

 

These days you don't want to buy anything for MAP (the minimum advertised price you see in catalogs and stuck on keyboards in stores). There are deals to be had, but you've gotta haggle...kinda the way things used to be 25 years ago.

 

It seems the consensus here (especially if you're going to keep your XP-30) is to leapfrog over the Roland XV series and go for a contemporary model...but...you know...whatever. Something else to consider...Roland sets up it's performances differently these days. If you're used to whe old way of doing things you'll feel more at home on a 5080.

[bigbaby987]

if you can wait a while and save up for a fantom x rack, do it!!

[RABid]

Does the XR read Akai or Roland sample CD's? I only see wav and aif listed in the specs.

 

Robert

[Song80s]

Roland set the expectation that they would introduce the Translator software by Chickensys to do this by this summer.

 

All we can do is wait on that. IMO, if that is a key feature, definitely wait to see if Translator does the job on sample conversion

[bigbaby987]

i know r&b an hip hop cats that love the new roland. even cats that were beginning to believe software was the answer to a lot of there problems. i'm actually going back to hardware myself. i like some softsynths, but in my personal opinion they are not that great except for a few. anyways, to me this is the best box roland has ever made. i was contemplating selling my 3080 to fund my x rack but i'm going to hold on to it. is can use both. but to me roland really got the sounds right this time....(that's more organic type sounds-pianos, organs, guitars, strings) i personally don't think you'll go wrong.

[Vincepro]

Whats up guys,

 

I went to Guitar CEnter and checked out the Fantom XR, I decided it wasn't worth the extra 500 or so dollars...I'm kind of surprised at how excited lots of people are by the Fantom XR...I mean the new sounds are nice, but there aren't THAT MANY revolutionary new sounds...and the thing takes the same old SRX cards as the 5080..and has a terrible screen, less outputs, etc....Why are people so excited about it?

[cnegrad]

Vince,

 

All the hype is about only two things: The new acoustic piano and the color screen.

 

For players of non-electronic music, the acoustic piano sound is an important thing, though I'm very unimpressed with this new piano, despite all the hoopla.

 

The Fantom X is also the first workstation to have a bright color screen. Unfortunately it isn't a touch screen. Word also has it that the screen is difiicult to see under professional stage lighting, for those of us that are in those situations.

 

Hope this helps.

[Song80s]

Well this gear is completely subjective, as most of us know.

Acoustic piano sounds on digital keyboards are highly subjective, as ES Motif owners always remind us.

 

True, the Fantom X sounds are a step up in quality from the XV and that is subjective, too.

 

I think the XR is inexpensive compared to the cost of a new 5080 or even a 3080 when they first came out 5 years ago.

I paid $1450 for a 3080 five years ago. The 5080 was almost $2000 five years ago.

 

A smaller LCD screen obviously keeps the cost down on the XR. I find the LCD sharply defined and easy to navigate with the buttons. Now that I have my User patches setup , I simply make my midi changes from my Rd 700.

 

My big point is that when/if Roland introduces the Translator you are ' future proof ' with the XR. The 5080

is a good move but it has been around a while and sounds have been used a lot in recordings. While that is a positive, I prefer my Roland sounds to be a little different and fresher, thus the XR.

[cnegrad]

Greg,

 

I don't disagree with anthing you've said, BUT:

 

Be VERY WARY of Chicken Systems Translator Products!

 

On both the Triton and the Motif the software has had many angry reports from dissatisfied customers. The Chicken Systems folks will always argue to the contrary, but whenever customers try to contact them directly, in my experience, they rarely get satisfaction.

 

Caveat emptor!

[Song80s]

cne, absolutely, I recall the complaints. I am skeptical about

Roland and chickensys getting the Translator out and to actually work as ' advertised'

I would not buy the Fantom X or XR based on the 'promise'

of Translator.

If they get it together and it works well, great. But until we see proof, I ignore the press releases and ads.

[bigbaby987]

greg i know everything is subjective. i personally think the fantom rack is miles ahead of the other racks. reasons being the ac. piano is miles ahead of what roland has put out, and everything else is much warmer and doesn't sound like everything has a high pass filter put on it. generally rolands older boxes are very bright. the fantom is fuller and still has punch. i personally think this is best all around box roland has put out.

[Song80s]

bigB, I made sure I got the XR as soon as possible and prepaid for it in February. I am very happy with it.

The XV acoustic pianos are ' thunky' and compressed sounding. No doubt, the Fantom X piano is a big improvement over the XV

[Dan South]

I've owned a number of JV synths, and I have an XP-5080. The 5080 has a remarkably clean sounding output stage, which is one of the things that I like about it. But cleaner isn't always better in this age of lo-fi loops and MP3's. I use the 5080 side by side with the slightly grungier JV-1080, and I often like the 1080 better. That's purely subjective, though. Your ears may react differently.

 

The 5080 has a lot of expansion capacity and excellent polyphony, both good qualities. Some of the waveforms are excellent, some sound sterile compared to the Triton. The Triton, in general, has lower quality samples than the 5080, but it sounds warmer and more "alive" to me.

 

The quality of sounds like a piano are best tested in context. Roland pianos sound sterile and brittle to me, but they have more definition than their Korg counterparts.

[mildbill]

the xr is an odd beast - in many ways it's downgraded from the 5080.

i see it as roland's attempt to get prices more in line with the motif rack by cutting some hardware and updating sounds - nothing more.

[MusicWorkz]

Originally posted by cnegrad:

Greg,

 

I don't disagree with anthing you've said, BUT:

 

Be VERY WARY of Chicken Systems Translator Products!

 

On both the Triton and the Motif the software has had many angry reports from dissatisfied customers. The Chicken Systems folks will always argue to the contrary, but whenever customers try to contact them directly, in my experience, they rarely get satisfaction.

 

Caveat emptor!

If I am correct, PPL can always buy the MOTU Mach 5 and use its compatibility features. I am not sure if it saves in Akai or Roland format, but if it does, it is an extra step to take to convert, but you get a great soft-sampler in the process.

[Goran]

I have JV2080 and it sounds thin on stage. Is there a way to make this sound "bigger" and richer with some external device (like maximizer, EQ or preamp) and does people do that kind of things?

 

Thanks!

[marino]

Originally posted by Goran:

I have JV2080 and it sounds thin on stage. Is there a way to make this sound "bigger" and richer with some external device (like maximizer, EQ or preamp) and does people do that kind of things?

 

Thanks!

I often play an XP-80 (the keyboard equivalent of a JV-1080 or 2080) onstage, and it *does* sound thin by itself. My solution is to program multi-layered sounds, and to layer it with other intruments, like a Wavestation, Kurzweil ME-1, or AN1X. I find that the ME-1 layers very well with the Roland sounds. You might consider getting one - it's a rather small and inexpensive module.

[Bill H.]

I'm also a live musician primarily, and my solution for fattening up patches on my XP-60 and JV-1080 involves getting in deep and reprogramming them (and I know that programming romplers isn't for everyone). My favorite filter combo for phat is peaking+lowpass (which can give humongous results with peaking tuned to fundamental with key track at 100%). Another solution I sometimes use is ghosting a multisample with a sine or heavily lowpassed saw in a separate tone location. Both these techniques can really fatten things up.

 

I think the reason most of the Roland presets sound so thin is because they were deliberately programmed that way so that they could be layered and overdubbed in recording situations....the primary intended use for most people. We giggers are a definite minority.

[ZZWave]

Bill,

 

I just got a JV-2080.Not too familiar with it yet and like you said, programing the rompler is still a little over my head at this point. I can do basic gain,pan,fx tweaks etc OK, but haven't got to your level yet.

 

I don't follow your "My favorite filter combo for phat is peaking+lowpass (which can give humongous results with peaking tuned to fundamental with key track at 100%".

 

Could you maybe elaborate and give me the fundamental steps to get the "phat" on a patch using your method?

 

I read my manual and can find the peaking or lowpass, but just don't get the peaking+lowpass with key track 100%.

 

I would appreciate it very much. I'm new at this, so be nice. LOL

 

Thank you and Peace....Ron

[Tusker]

Originally posted by Bill H.:

My favorite filter combo for phat is peaking+lowpass (which can give humongous results with peaking tuned to fundamental with key track at 100%). Another solution I sometimes use is ghosting a multisample with a sine or heavily lowpassed saw in a separate tone location. Both these techniques can really fatten things up.

 

I've got a couple of Roland tricks, that apply mostly to vintage analog leads and pads.

 

1) Composite saw waves - Mixing a B39 (square) fundamental with a bright saw (say B35 P5 Saw) an octave above is actually a saw wave (The saw should be a little softer than the square, since harmonics decline in amplitude). Making the saw a composite allows you to do some subtle lfo tricks (amplitude and pitch changes) which changes the waveform over time, musically.

 

2) Noise - The roland B53 - spectrum is an unusual high pass filtered white noise, which is perfect for simulating the noise in an analog circuit. Send a little of this through a tone, low pass filter it to cut most of it out. It does take up a tone, but it's worth it.

 

3) Same as above but use the ring modulator to ring modulate spectrum (or a band-pass-filtered noisy waveform) with your bog standard analog waveform, to create a vibrant sound. Mix in at low levels after low pass filtering to get the ugly high transients out. In the lower mid range (the octave below middle c), this distortion creates that warm "electricity flowing" sound we all love. Takes two tones, but it's worth it.

 

I find that leads made with these tricks can stand up very creditably in a room full of guitars.

 

Cheers,

 

Jerry

[Bill H.]

Originally posted by ZZWave:

Bill,

 

I don't follow your "My favorite filter combo for phat is peaking+lowpass (which can give humongous results with peaking tuned to fundamental with key track at 100%".

 

Could you maybe elaborate...

 

Thank you and Peace....Ron

hey Ron...

 

OK using filters in combination means getting into structures and I'll try to get you started...

 

The simplest combination filter structure to understand is 2. It's best to initialize a patch, but you can also edit a preset to start. Using tone copy, put the wave you like to fatten up in tone 2. Turn the TVA for tone 1 off by setting it's level to 0. Set it's filter to peaking with a value of 63, run up it's resonance a bit, set cutoff tracking to 100%, and envelope depth, LFO depth, velocity, everything else that could modulate filter cutoff to 0. Don't forget to check the settings in Control...Roland's modulation matrix...and zero out any amounts that have a destination of cutoff. That's it! The amount of fat is set by the resonance number of the peaking filter.

[ZZWave]

Thanks guys for the great tips to get me started! This will get me into the 2080 laboratory for sure.

 

Bill-

In one post you mention: "with key track at 100%" and the other: "set cutoff tracking to 100%". I don't understand this part. I can't even find the word track in any of the menus or manual.

 

What exactly are you referring to?

 

Again, thanks Jerry and Bill for the help.

 

Peace...Ron