Being the bass player on the keys

[Blues Disciple]

My Christian blues band has had a terrible time finding a bass player. Well we found one then lost him. We are at the point of just going with our drummer, guitarist and me where I would play the keyboard part(s), sing, and do the walking bass with my left hand or feet and forego the bass player overall.

 

My question, has any of you done this in the past or are doing it currently ?

 

Can it be done effectively and sound good in a live setting ?

 

And is there any special keyboard that is perfect for this over another ?? (Right now I am using the bass sound on my old Ensoniq SDP-1 and the bottom manual of my Hammond---though I will bring in the pedals next practice for a dry run)

 

Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.

 

BD

[Krakit]

Piano Bass

 

 

Carl

[Ouizel]

Two words.

 

The Doors.

 

[Yamis]

I played in a band for over 20 years. We never had a bass player. I played left hand bass. I used a Korg Poly 800 for the bass and used a Yamaha DX7 and sound modules for everything else. The band consisted of me on keyboards, a drummer, 2 guitar players and vocals. It sounded good IMO. I don't play out anymore. Just play at home. I messed around with pedals for a while but never felt comfortable using them.

[ITGITC]

I split my keyboard (Kurzweil PC2X) to play left-hand bass.

 

I don't like it. I would prefer that the band hire a bass player to free me up to play better piano (and other sounds).

 

In fact, I was only half kidding when I mentioned in another thread that I should get double pay.

 

The benefit of my playing left-hand bass is that the bass player always knows the chords if the piano player knows them too!

 

Gas

[Analogaddict]

I did a couple of gigs with a band that consisted of a drummer, a lead vocalist, a guitar player and two keyboard players. We did a gig or two with three keyboard players instead of the guitarist. We took turns playing bass, this way nobody was the "bass player for the evening". It worked great in a slick soul/r´n´b context (Chaka Khan, Boys II Men, Stevie Wonder), in a blues band I prefer a real bassist.

 

/J nas

[Tusker]

Funny you should mention that. Last sunday I played bass on keys in church. The bass player was sick. We rocked. I have been a substitute bass before. But this was the first time I thought of my contribution on bass as something other than consolation prize. Here's some thoughts. I hope they help.

 

I prefer the analog styled basses to the sampled electric ones. We sound really funky with that analog bottom (ok fake analog bottom cause I'm using an AN1X).

 

My tricks are:

 

- Run the bass through a compressor if possible, than add velocity sensitivity to amp and filter to taste.

- Pay attention to staccato versus legato. This is a big deal.

- Pay attention to lowest octave versus upper octaves. (I permit myself to go to the C below the Low E but only on slow notes.)

- Continuously adjust dynamics. I'm using only the volume knob, depending on how the band is adjusting the dynamics. I'd prefer to use a pedal but I don't trust myself on pedals. (I tend to lunge reflexively. Oops.)

- I do one oscillator tuned an octave below the other so they don't chorus. I do have filter resonance available on the mod wheel, this brings in some snap when I need it. Too much resonance can kill the bottom though.

- I permit myself the liberty to do all the keyboard tricks: glissandos, pitch bends (when the other hand is free), grace notes, etc.

- Play fewer notes at the beginning of the song. Save the fun stuff for the breakdown, or the final chorus or something.

- Don't feel like you have to play something on every measure. I did some 1-measure-on 1-measure-off (Tony Levin style) stuff and almost immediately the groove opened up and the guitarists and the percussionist found hip new patterns for themselves. On some songs the bass should play only one note. The one at the beginning of the measure. You don't have to anchor every chord change. It's ok.

- If the drummer gets over his/her reticence at grooving with the keyboardist, he/she will loosen up and begin to have fun. Doesn't hurt to jam a bit with the drummer.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jerry

[ELP71]

I've done it w/a split PC88 in a rock, jazz and theatre context. I prefer NOT to do it, however it works well for quick pick-up gigs or emergencies. Covering bass lines is not a musically satisfying experience for me, except for the theatre context, where most of my responsibilities we 'um-chuck' rhythmic parts.

 

I have never kicked bass with pedals, although it seems that if you posess the chops this would be preferable to a split keyboard situation. Again - try several options. You'll find at times that covering the bass parts yourself can be better/less frustrating that working wth a BAD bass player.

[rod76]

Haruomi Hosono did it for years with YMO

 

Playing Fender Bass & ARP Odyssey when needed with equal ease

[Blues Disciple]

Thanks all.

 

We do mostly typical I-IV-V blues progressions and being I wrote the bass parts when I wrote the songs, it really isn't difficult. In fact walking the bass with the left hand is the only area of left-handed playing I am really proficient at. In my other band, I comp with the left hand on chords and play fills/leads with my right.

 

I'm gonna haul the Hammond pedals in next week's practice and see how it goes. I'm not sure I can play with both hands, sing and move the feet all at the same time--my coordination may not be that good!

 

I tried the left hand bass on Monday night and it sounded good. I need to run it through a separate bass-only amp/cabinet as opposed to the smaller speaker keyboard amp along with the piano as it didn't have the separation or deepness in tone I would have liked.

 

Next purchase will probably be a small mixer to run the boards and the amps through to the house mix. This will help with bass tone and separation too.

 

Keep the suggestions and ideas coming as I am sure this is the way we will go from now on.

 

BD

[Buddtopps89]

Well, I don't know how much this might help, but I was going to say that if you have a sequencer, maybe you could record the bass parts and then play them back while playing treble with what you can. Hope this helps!

[RobT]

Dang it!!! Wilkesboro is just a little too far for me to audition on bass

[Anomaly]

I've been stuck doing it for about a year and a half. I have a Triton and send the bass out of one of the auxilary ports to a seperate channel in the PA. I have several programs written this way. Some are splits and others have full range 88 keys on piano over top of Bass to C4. This actually works pretty well.

 

Good Points

1. Saves paying another man.

2. Having control over bass and piano/organ allows you to improv into a realm where few would ever think to go.

Bad Points

1.Jazz solos suck when you don't have fat chord textures under them.

2.I don't get to play my guitar, dobro and lap steel.

 

I have never had anyone say they miss the bass, tho.

It is a crash course on developing good Right/left independence.

 

As for pedals, they would be nice to have to keep bottom in the mix when soloing and still be able to comp chords, but very few big name players actually kick all their bass parts.

They use them to accent, but most still use left hand for bass.

[petros]

I play a lot of jazz duets with a jazz guitarist. I split my Yamaha P120 (Acoustic Bass left hand and right hand plays EP2 with rootless chords) The guitarist plays the melodies and takes his solos. The guitarist comps the chords when I solo.

 

I like not having to rely on a bass player or a drummer. I don't see any disadvantages with it. I like the two part counterpoint I get when I solo.

I don't like playing bass on a keyboard that doesn't sound good as a bass.

[marino]

Originally posted by ELP71:

I've done it w/a split PC88 in a rock, jazz and theatre context. I prefer NOT to do it, however it works well for quick pick-up gigs or emergencies.

My experience exactly.

I've played in a couple of groups where I had to cover the bass parts, and while I enjoyed the challenge, I find that both the bass and harmony parts did suffer. There's no way I can play left hand bass with the right groove, passing notes, embellishments etc., and still concentrate on a good right-hand part without semplifying a bit - especially if I have to learn new tunes quickly, as it was the case with the two groups I mentioned. Technically, it's very possible, and I enjoy doing it when there is no drummer, especially in a jazz context, But I feel that when drums are involved, a *good* bass player will lock with the drummer more securely, allowing the keyboard player to think in another level of timing.

 

That said, if the choice is between playing keyboard bass and playing with a bad or inexperienced bassist, I'd accept the bassist role without thinking twice!

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by marino:

Originally posted by ELP71:

[qb] But I feel that when drums are involved, a *good* bass player will lock with the drummer more securely, allowing the keyboard player to think in another level of timing.

Now that you mention it, I forgot about the bad experience I once had with another drummer who was less capable than the one I now work with.

This guy has been with me for 8 years and is the best listening drummer I've ever played with. He prefers that my keys are set up so he can watch me, but I gotta tell you, there is absolutely no way I can throw this guy. He can follow my runs note for note even if I spontaneously break a run into groups of 1/4, 1/8, 1/16th and 1/32 notes. Just about every time we play, musicians in the audience will come up and ask us how we ever got that tight with something that intricate and they can't believe it when we have to admit it was the first time we ever did it that way.

 

It really pays to keep looking until you find those band mates with whom you got the right chemistry with. I hope we are together until they screw us into the ground because I can't imagine music without these two guys.