USB MIDI Interface for Roland FP-8 Digital Piano?!?!

[dissident]

I have posted a few threads about my problem with a USB MIDI interface and my Roland FP-8 digital piano.

 

First I had a XP MIDI Mate by Audiotrak (www.audiotrak.de). When I used it with the FP-8, the interface and computer (running Mac OS 10.2.6) did not respond to all the notes I played, and notes "hung" even though I'd stopped playing.

 

I've tried the set up with another computer running windows XP and another MIDI app, and had the same problem. I've also connect the FP-8 directly to a MIDI module (roland sound canvas) and it worked perfectly, so the problem is not the MIDI out stream on the FP-8.

 

I went to the music store where I bought it, and there they plugged it in using another (non Roland) keyboard and it worked flawelessly. Well I got to replace the XP MIDI mate with a RoMI/O by ESI (www.esi-pro.com), also a USB interface. (I think audiotrak and esi are the same company since they have the same tech support.) Anyways, I got home, plugged it in... the exact same problem as with the XP MIDI Mate.

 

I think that the problem is a hardware bug, that causes compatability issues with the Roland FP-8...but I'm no expert. I'm pretty sure it's not a Mac OS X problem.

 

I really need my piano for Cubase, and I don't have time for this crap!...pardon... So, my question now is: Has anyone used a USB MIDI interface with a Roland FP-8 (or a close relative to the FP-8), and if so what interface? Has anyone tried any of M-audios cheap usb MIDI interfaces, and if so do they work well with Roland Digital Pianos?

 

I'm getting desperate!!!

 

Thanks for your reply!

[Gus Lozada]

Originally posted by dissident:

Has anyone tried any of M-audios cheap usb MIDI interfaces, and if so do they work well with Roland Digital Pianos?

 

I'm getting desperate!!!

 

Thanks for your reply!

Hi there...

 

Try accesing an OS 9 music app running ASIO drivers. Maybe the velocity of your piano has problems when computer latency occurs hence the missing/stuck notes.

[dissident]

Originally posted by Gus Lozada:

Hi there...

 

Try accesing an OS 9 music app running ASIO drivers. Maybe the velocity of your piano has problems when computer latency occurs hence the missing/stuck notes.

Could you please explain? How will this help? Why do I have to access OS 9?

 

thanks!

[Gus Lozada]

Originally posted by dissident:

Could you please explain? How will this help? Why do I have to access OS 9?

 

thanks!

ASIO drivers happen to have a better response to MIDI and lower latency than "Audio Units" from OS X. I have both systems and still prefer OS 9 for MIDI.

 

Just try it

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

But Gus...isn't he just doing MIDI? How will ASIO drivers make a difference if it's not having anything to do audio?

 

- Jeff

[Gus Lozada]

Originally posted by Jeff the Wandering Weasel:

But Gus...isn't he just doing MIDI? How will ASIO drivers make a difference if it's not having anything to do audio?

 

- Jeff

Oh shut !!

That's true... I forgot I use ASIO for my VIRTUAL SYNTHS... and some MIDI controllers generate stuck notes on OS X... due to latency.

 

 

Good point, Weasel guy...

[dissident]

Originally posted by Gus Lozada:

Oh shut !!

That's true... I forgot I use ASIO for my VIRTUAL SYNTHS... and some MIDI controllers generate stuck notes on OS X... due to latency.

 

 

Good point, Weasel guy...

Well, I do have the problem when I use VST instruments, which I plan on using. But it's totally unplayable, cause if i play faster than 2 notes a second it screws up, by either hanging notes or no respons at all. I still don't think it's a software issue. I'm going over to my dad to try it on his computer (also OS X) but with another keyboard.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Gus Lozada:

Good point, Weasel guy...

Thanks. I actually know a thing or two about music technology, beyond being a weasel.

 

Here's my advice, dissident: you're getting hanging notes and non-response. USB and MIDI is not a great mix, but it's a necessary one for folks like you and me.

 

The quality of the performance in this regard is completely based on the abilities of the drivers written for your interface. better drivers = cleaner performance.

 

I don't know anything specific about your interface by Audiotrak. What I would possibly look into is a box that just a USB/MIDI interface, with no audio to add unnecessary complexity. M-Audio, MOTU and several others make these, and they're cheap. An extremely simple one is the Edirol UM-1, which is like $50:

 

http://www.edirol.com/products/info/images/um1.jpg

 

You should have no problem continuing to use an OS X app (like Cubase) as your sequencer.

 

I'm still running OS 9.2.3 for various reasons of other software that I'm too cheap to upgrade. I use a TASCAM US-428 as a USB/MIDI interface between my QS8 and my iMac running Cubase, and it works fine. Audio is slightly harder, but that's due to my limited 266mHz processor on the old iMac than any deficiency with my other gear.

 

Good luck.

 

- Jeff

[Gus Lozada]

It's kinda easy to fall in misconceptions when you've not been using hardware for a long time... I'm sorry.

 

For me, MIDI is what I use to control REASON, FM7, B4 and Reaktor ... and sorry to say, but MIDI/USB seems to be a perfect mix for me.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Gus Lozada:

... and sorry to say, but MIDI/USB seems to be a perfect mix for me.

Don't be sorry. For many folks (me included, it works just fine). If anything works, I don't question it. I just use it!

 

About a year and a half ago, I wrote the follwing in Electronic Musician magazine:

 

"Most people who criticize USB as an audio tool do so on the presumption that the device's drivers are written according to the standard protocol, in which the device polls the USB bus on a regular interval, usually once every millisecond. A well-written driver and a computer optimized for audio will much more heavily influence MIDI timing as opposed to the USB spec itself."

 

The criticism that inspired this was that USB/MIDI interfaces suffer from excessive jitter (timing slop), and that older interface technologies (serial port, parallel port, ISA card, internal sound hardware, and so on) have much better timing stability. Again, it's all about the drivers.

 

- Jeff

[StoneinaPond]

dissident,

 

I replied to your post on the GM board but it appears you didn't go back to look at your original post.

 

It could be that the FP8 only sends out a MIDI note at full depression of the key. Somehow I doubt that is the case.

 

More likely is that in a MIDI preference somewhere in Cubase (global or by track) the setting for receiving incoming notes is set to only respond to MIDI notes within a certain velocity range.

 

If you can find that (can't help you there) and it is in fact the case, reset it to accept MIDI notes at all velocities.

 

If it is already set that way, then try a play a repeated note from soft to hard and see when a note is received. If there is a pattern to that, then it is the first scenario.

 

Hope this helps.

Having got some more information from this thread, I would agree that it is not a hardware problem when interfaced with other Roland gear. In other words, the MIDI information the SC gets is sufficient for it to work correctly.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think it is a Cubase issue. Two things.

 

Do you have a MIDI loop happening where your incoming MIDI information is being sent back out to the FP8? The stuck notes would indicate this.

 

Also, check your MIDI filter settings and play with those. Perhaps the MIDI implementation on the FP8 is deficient or incomplete in some respects.

 

I'm not a Cubase expert so you're on your own as far as where to go in the program to figure this out.

 

Peace

[dissident]

Well, I've tried the ESI RoMI/O with my dads Powerbook G4 and his old Technics PX5 Digital Piano. And it works. Same OS, Same app (cubase sx) same interface, different keyboard. Why would the Roland FP-8 send different MIDI information? Can anyone explain?

 

StoneinaPond, on the FP-8 I can play att different velocities, (the few notes that go through). I only have the midi out on the fp-8 connected to the interface. All the settings are the same in Cubase on the PB G4.

 

Another thing, I explained in an earlier thread about how you can watch the blinking light on the interface, and see that it doesn't respond (it blinks at a higher frequency when I press a key) to the notes when I play extremely fast on one key (on the fp-8). When doing the same thing on the Technics piano, it keeps blinking at a high frequency as long as I'm playing on a key extremely fast, which I guess means that signals are being sent through the interface. Can drivers affect this?

 

Doesn't anyone think that a returning the unit and bying the M-audio uno 1x1 instead is a good idea, or do you think I will be experiencing the same issues?

[Dave Bryce]

Did you try my suggestion of MIDIing the FP-8 to another MIDI instrument to verify that the FP-8 is doing what it should?

 

dB

[dissident]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Did you try my suggestion of MIDIing the FP-8 to another MIDI instrument to verify that the FP-8 is doing what it should?

 

dB

Well, I hooked it up directly to a roland sound canvas module, and it worked as it should. Is that not kind of what you meant?

[StoneinaPond]

Did you try my suggestion of MIDIing the FP-8 to another MIDI instrument to verify that the FP-8 is doing what it should?

Dave,

 

I think that was answered in the original post.

 

I've also connect the FP-8 directly to a MIDI module (roland sound canvas) and it worked perfectly, so the problem is not the MIDI out stream on the FP-8.

[StoneinaPond]

Another thing, I explained in an earlier thread about how you can watch the blinking light on the interface, and see that it doesn't respond (it blinks at a higher frequency when I press a key) to the notes when I play extremely fast on one key (on the fp-8). When doing the same thing on the Technics piano, it keeps blinking at a high frequency as long as I'm playing on a key extremely fast, which I guess means that signals are being sent through the interface. Can drivers affect this?

I think I understand what you are saying.

 

In other words, the indicator light on the interface does not match each hit of a key?

 

You say this happens both with multiple strikes of the same key and when you play fast passages.

 

Does it happen if you play slowly, either the same key or a sequence of notes?

 

Can you determine a pattern?

 

When you plugged into the Sound Canvas, did you go directly, or through the MIDI interface?

[dissident]

Originally posted by StoneinaPond:

I think I understand what you are saying.

 

In other words, the indicator light on the interface does not match each hit of a key?

 

You say this happens both with multiple strikes of the same key and when you play fast passages.

 

Does it happen if you play slowly, either the same key or a sequence of notes?

 

Can you determine a pattern?

 

When you plugged into the Sound Canvas, did you go directly, or through the MIDI interface?

Yes I think I can determine a pattern. When I'm not pressing any key on the piano the indicator light pulsates at a certain, farely slow rate. If I press a key and hold it down, the light pulsates faster as I press it, but while I'm holding it down the light goes back to it's "idle" rate. When I releas the key, the light puls rate increases once again. The same goes for when I press/release the pedal. I think this is basic MIDI info (attack/release).

 

When I play very fast the light should pulsate at a high rate as long as i'm playing since, the piano is sending attack and release info. This is what the technics digital piano does. But with the fp-8 the indicator light goes back to it's idle state when I play extremely fast. But the fp-8 does send the MIDI info since it works with the sound canvas (which I, by the way, connected directly with a MIDI cable), it's just that the interface doesn't respond, when playing fast.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by StoneinaPond:

Did you try my suggestion of MIDIing the FP-8 to another MIDI instrument to verify that the FP-8 is doing what it should?

Dave,

 

I think that was answered in the original post.

 

I've also connect the FP-8 directly to a MIDI module (roland sound canvas) and it worked perfectly, so the problem is not the MIDI out stream on the FP-8.

Dopey me...

 

This is the third thread about this same problem, so I'm probably not reading everything as carefully as I should be. Sorry...

 

dB

[StoneinaPond]

Yes I think I can determine a pattern. When I'm not pressing any key on the piano the indicator light pulsates at a certain, farely slow rate.

Does the indicator light pulsate also when you use the Technics keyboard and it is idle? (Not playing any notes.)

[dissident]

Originally posted by StoneinaPond:

Yes I think I can determine a pattern. When I'm not pressing any key on the piano the indicator light pulsates at a certain, farely slow rate.

Does the indicator light pulsate also when you use the Technics keyboard and it is idle? (Not playing any notes.)

Yes the light pulsates when not playing any notes, even with the technics piano.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by StoneinaPond:

Yes I think I can determine a pattern. When I'm not pressing any key on the piano the indicator light pulsates at a certain, farely slow rate.

Does the indicator light pulsate also when you use the Technics keyboard and it is idle? (Not playing any notes.)

As mentioned in one of the other threads, I believe that the MIDI indicator light on the interface flashing when no key is depressed is because some instruments (noteably some Roland ones) are always sending a handshake ID.

 

dB

[StoneinaPond]

As mentioned in one of the other threads, I believe that the MIDI indicator light on the interface flashing when no key is depressed is because some instruments (noteably some Roland ones) are always sending a handshake ID.

Dave,

 

This where is was going with this. Could this be an issue with the interface. Too much MIDI data?

[StoneinaPond]

Seems the Technic does that also, so there goes that idea.

 

I still would like to see what happens when you play the Sound Canvas through the interface.

[dissident]

Originally posted by StoneinaPond:

Could this be an issue with the interface. Too much MIDI data?

But it works with the technics, and it also has the idle, or ID MIDI data, that causes the indicator light pulse.

[dissident]

So how about it? Hardware or software problem?

 

I'm thinking of getting the M-audio midisport UNI 1x1 tomorrow. Do you think I'll have the same problem? I mean i would feel better at least to have an interface that people has heard of.

[StoneinaPond]

I'm thinking of getting the M-audio midisport UNI 1x1 tomorrow. Do you think I'll have the same problem? I mean i would feel better at least to have an interface that people has heard of.

Well, if your dealer is letting you do exchanges, you have nothing to loose.

 

I will interesting to hear the results if you do get it.

 

Best of luck.

 

Still would like to have known the result playing the Sound Canvas through the interface.

[dissident]

OK, I now have more or less proof that all this isn't a Cubase issue.

 

I downloaded a small app called MIDI Monitor:

 

http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/

 

MIDI Monitor is a utility for Mac OS X which displays MIDI signals in a variety of formats. It can watch both incoming and outgoing MIDI streams, and can filter them by message type and channel.

 

Musicians will find it handy for tracking down confusing MIDI problems.

Programmers can use it to test MIDI drivers and applications.

 

MIDI Monitor is FREE to download and use.

I can run this app alone without having to run cubase.

 

When I'm not playing MIDI monitor gets a frequent signal that it displays as "Active sense" (it displays this in a list where the latest signals are at the bottom). It displays this at the same rate as the indicator light pulsates. I can run midi monitor and pause it, and sort of record the signals that has been sent. When I press a key, MIDI monitor displays "note on", and when I release the key, it says "note off". I did a test with my Roland FP-8 set up where I played one key farely fast 16 times, so MIDI monitor should, show 16 note on and 16 note off, right? well this is what it showed:

 

13:31:30.605 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:30.855 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:31.105 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:31.145 From Port 1 Note On 1 C3 117

13:31:31.250 From Port 1 Note Off 1 C3 0

13:31:31.311 From Port 1 Note On 1 C3 110

13:31:31.355 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:31.558 From Port 1 Note Off 1 C3 0

13:31:31.605 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:31.732 From Port 1 Note Off 1 C3 0

13:31:31.829 From Port 1 Note On 1 C3 118

13:31:31.855 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:32.004 From Port 1 Note On 1 C3 109

13:31:32.092 From Port 1 Note Off 1 C3 0

13:31:32.105 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:32.250 From Port 1 Note Off 1 C3 0

13:31:32.350 From Port 1 Note On 1 C3 100

13:31:32.356 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:32.531 From Port 1 Note On 1 C3 119

13:31:32.606 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:32.790 From Port 1 Note Off 1 C3 0

13:31:32.856 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:33.071 From Port 1 Note On 1 C3 106

13:31:33.106 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:33.245 From Port 1 Note On 1 C3 120

13:31:33.332 From Port 1 Note Off 1 C3 0

13:31:33.356 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:33.506 From Port 1 Note Off 1 C3 0

13:31:33.600 From Port 1 Note On 1 C3 107

13:31:33.606 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:33.779 From Port 1 Note On 1 C3 119

13:31:33.856 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:34.106 From Port 1 Active Sense

13:31:34.357 From Port 1 Active Sense

It looks like it is the Active Sense is in the way, but that is very weird since the Technics keyboard also produced the pulsating light on the interface. I have not yet tried MIDI monitor with the Technics digital piano.

[dissident]

I bought the M-audio USB UNO 1x1, and it works great!

[StoneinaPond]

I bought the M-audio USB UNO 1x1, and it works great!

Nothing quite like a success story!

 

So it seems that all USB MIDI interfaces are not created equal. That's useful information.

 

Glad it worked out.