Kurzweil K2500RS could "drop right in" and replace 2080 in my system?

[el biciclista]

I am starting another thread, since I am now very interested in the option of the buying a K2500RS to replace my Roland 2080. In the first thread I asked for help because the 2080 sounds to me aren't tight, realistic, driving enough for my electric blues music; too reverby, mushy.

 

I got some great suggestions for improving the 2080 sounds, but I get the feeling that I just might do a lot of work and never get there with the 2080. I searched the forum for Kurzweil and I saw many positive comments about the "realistic" sounds available from the K2500.

 

I am asking for help on how much work it would be to make this gear change.

My existing system is:

Digi001/ProTools LE w/Waves

G4 450

Yamaha 01v mixer

Roland 2080

Axon AX100 guitar MIDI controller

Roland A-33 keyboard controller

Boss DR-660 drum machine

Genelec 1030A monitors.

 

I use MIDI for drums, bass, and keyboards and mic guitar and vocals.

 

Basic questions from a non-MIDI guy:

-All MIDI communications work with the A-33, AX100, DR-660 as before?

-I can do the same kinds of things (although I assume the interface is very different): select patches for the performance, etc?

-Can I send digital output to the 01v S/PDIF and avoid D/A and A/D conversion? (which I have to go through now with the 2080 to record audio tracks in ProTools).

 

I'm so MIDI-ignorant I don't know the difference between "samples" and "patches", but I assume I can learn......I use the 2080 pretty handily now.

And it sounds like I would be in good shape for the long term, with the many samples available.

 

Am I on the right track to consider this for more "realistic" drum, bass, and keyboard tracks?

 

Thanks!

Mike

[Rod S]

Originally posted by el biciclista:

Basic questions from a non-MIDI guy:

-All MIDI communications work with the A-33, AX100, DR-660 as before?

-I can do the same kinds of things (although I assume the interface is very different): select patches for the performance, etc?

-Can I send digital output to the 01v S/PDIF and avoid D/A and A/D conversion? (which I have to go through now with the 2080 to record audio tracks in ProTools).

 

I'm so MIDI-ignorant I don't know the difference between "samples" and "patches", but I assume I can learn......I use the 2080 pretty handily now.

And it sounds like I would be in good shape for the long term, with the many samples available.

 

Am I on the right track to consider this for more "realistic" drum, bass, and keyboard tracks?

 

Well, I won't answer your final question since that's subjective, but I'll give you a few pointers.

 

The k2500 is a complex beast, and if all you want to do is play sounds (nothing wrong with that) you not only will not take full advantage of it, but you may not get the drastic improvement that you are hoping. I suggest you check it out at the store to see if the presets even seem like a huge improvement.

 

I'll say this, though. The kurz has a way of just sitting right in a mix. I can't explain it. It's one of the few synths that I can run with no effects without my ears hurting because the sound is so dry http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif This is subjective, though.

 

I'm not familiar at all with the roland, but here's the deal with the kurz. You're going to need to some adjustment in your work habits to work with samples, since it gets a bit more involved and time consuming; however the results are well worth it. Be prepared to have to spend more money on a scsi cd rom drive, maybe a scsi hard drive (to hold samples), and memory upgrade (if you're buying it used, check to see what it has already)

 

The kurz can operate in two modes : It will function in a lot of ways like the roland. All the presets use samples from its ROM, so you're ready to go as soon as you turn it on. I think the multitimbral implementation is much better in the kurz compared to other synths, and allows me to work faster.

 

The other 'mode' is, instead of the sounds using the samples from ROM, you load your own samples. And this is where you are going to see a drastic improvement.

 

As I said, it requires a little organizing and time to load the samples, pick the one you want, etc. If you do a lot of work with midi, if you don't setup the sequence to automatically load all the stuff, there's some significant setup time.

 

So you trade quality for time & money. Sample libraries are not cheap. I think the improvement in sound quality could be fairly big.

 

There's other alternatives too.... the roland xv5080 is a lot like the 2080 and will load roland and akai samples... you may find that is a easier transition to you, and I think you may get a improvement in quality.

 

A lot of people have had success doing a lot of post processing with plug ins too. There's a lot of alternatives....

 

Good luck.

[el biciclista]

Rod,

Thanks so much for the detailed post. This REALLY helps me better understand what the change would mean. I'm still interested; I like a good technical challenge, and it sounds like the potential for getting what I want is high.....but I can see it will take a real effort. I have to decide if I'm ready to take it on.

 

Thanks again.

Mike

[marino]

Excellent advice from Rod. Some more thoughts:

 

Originally posted by el biciclista:

Basic questions from a non-MIDI guy:

-All MIDI communications work with the A-33, AX100, DR-660 as before?

 

Sure. Only, the OS is *very* different.

-I can do the same kinds of things (although I assume the interface is very different): select patches for the performance, etc?

 

Absolutely! The Kurz doesn't have "Performances" like the Rolands, you can choose to work with "Setups" or save a "Master" configuration... But it's VERY flexible.

-Can I send digital output to the 01v S/PDIF and avoid D/A and A/D conversion? (which I have to go through now with the 2080 to record audio tracks in ProTools).

 

Um, sort of. If you have the sampling option, you have digital I/O; but it's not really a direct connection: Rather, the signal is converted to analog, then to digital again. The conversion is very good, mind you... However, my advice is to not bother, the analog outs are very clean. If you get the sampling option, you could make experiments to see (hear) which solution sounds best.

 

[/b]

 

Some additional info:

The main shortcomings of the Kurz are its limited polyphony (48) and the so-and-so effects; its main strenghts are ist incredible programming power and overall sound quality.

If you can find a K2500 with the KDFX (effect card) installed, well, that adds a LOT to the sound.

 

But I agree with Rod in that you must spend time with the machine in order to use its deep capabilities. Maybe in your case you'd better go with a "pure" sampler like an Akai (you could try an used S3000XL, for example). It's easier to learn, and it has tons of soundware made for it. It can't touch the Kurz synthesis engine, but if all you need are clean samples, it could be a better bet. Of course it doesn't have any ROM sound, so it would not "replace" your 2080, it would just add to it.

 

Hope this helps

 

marino

[el biciclista]

On reflection, a question about how long it would take get up to speed:

 

I can use the 2080 fairly handily, and can operate the different MIDI gear I have reasonably well. I have not gotten into editing patches, but I have read the manual and think I could do that OK. If I could block a week in the studio and do nothing but work with the K2500RS, could a reasonably bright guy (smile) be loading and using patches by the end of the week? Would the training CD-ROM (http://www.synth-tek.com/products.html#intermediate)

help?

 

Thanks,

Mike

[Mark Zeger]

Considering how relatively little JV-2080's sell for on E-bay, if there was anyway to keep it and find a nice used K2500RS (there are plenty around), you'd be golden!

 

I'm very happy I added a K2500RS to my studio, but also have other sound sources because the Kurzweil just isn't strong everywhere. Then again, no module is. If you part with the JV-2080, you could get those Roland sounds back in your arsenal with a JV-1010 for under $400.