Dave Bryce Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 WARNING! This is fully intended as a rant thread...anybody not wanting to participate in picking on insipid mainstream formulaic pop, go away now. You have been warned. Is it my imagination, or are all of the Britney Spears songs, like, exactly the same song? I haven't heard her albums, but today I had her third "hit" spoonfed to me at the gym (boy, is their demographic info off base...) and it sounds to me EXACTLY like the other two - that "Ooops! I did it again" thing, and that one about how she's a star. All are right about 100 bpm, all of the have hi hat and synth going tinktinktink squarely on all of the eighth notes, all of them have those stupid orchestra hits right at the top of each section. All of them have one or two lines of the vocals run through some sort of vocodor or filter, and all of them seem to have pretty much the same melody line delivered in exactly the same obnoxious squeak by Ms. Spears. Oh, and if I hear her go "yeah yeah yeah" though that megaphone filter effect one one more time... http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/paladin/uzi.gif At least the other little blonde can sing... dB ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMarkAndersenexcite.com Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Dave, I basically agree completely. I'm not sure the blame goes to the performer for this kind of by-the-numbers pop, though. My 19-yr-old son played me a cut by InSync the other day that really brought Take 6 to mind. They can do the a capella thing really well; their bass doesn't have quite the tone of Take 6's bass, but who does? They also don't quite have the high end of Take 6, because they don't really have a true countertenor. But the point is, they could be developing their a capella side and doing some really nice stuff. Instead they do ... what they do. Is it their fault, or their handlers'? I'm not convinced that Britney has the pipes to be in the league of Sade or Chaka Khan. "The other blonde" probably does, though. Whether she ever does or not, though, depends on what she's allowed to do in the context of the industry. Is the problem just that the industry has taken the focus off of the music, and concentrated on production, dance, video, and hype? Or are we just repeating the old criticisms (_my_ old criticisms) of, e.g., George Benson for not playing "real jazz"? I really don't know, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of others. ------------------ Mark A. New Mexico St. Univ. Mark A. New Mexico St. Univ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 I know that Britney spend a lot of time here in Sweden, with producers and songwriters.(Swedish) They make songs for BSB also. And that type of "sound" is their "trademark". I also think that they have pressure on them doing more hits and the easiest way to do another one, is to do it sounding exactly like the first. It sure have worked for them. But is it good? Maybe for the teenagers but not for us musicians. It's not so inspiring. They earn some money though! Perhaps we are getting old Dave? ------------------ --Smedis,-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarrell Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 I hate to see what I would call the "Mariah Carey syndrome," where someone with a great voice and musical talent squanders it on braindead material. Imagine if MC sang really good material, the equal of her voice. Maybe there's a musical future for Christina; she probably is already set financially for life. But unless you are there, it is probably hard to say the choices any of us would make when making $$$ grinding out disposable pop - why not do just one more album and tour and make that much more $$$? - jarrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lozada Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Actually, Dave, I guess Britney's music have nothing to do with Vocal art. Even worse, it's not about playing music. It is just an image for teenagers and it is an excellent marketing job... sure, it is not forever. It is a very good thing her producers are making money with that project, even if they are repeating the formula over and over (by the way, "Oops..", "Stronger" and "One more time" are almost exactly the same... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif ). Perhaps someday we could afford to do the same thing and get tons of money from it http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ... but in the meantime we have to listen to it while we think we could have done it better http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif ... and be prepared... Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo Senior Product Manager, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus at Fender Musical Instruments Company Instagram: guslozada Facebook: Lozada - Música y Tecnología www.guslozada.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfoolsynthfool.com Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 My own experience was in hearing all the Britney Spears hype (let's just abbreviate it as "B.S. hype") long before I heard her "sing". But when I did finally hear her perform, I was suprised about bad it really was. I've yet to come up with a solid descriptive of it, but it's somewhere along "Strangled Plastic Eel". (in comparison, my description of Stevie Nicks is "The Gypsy Toad from Hell") The Grammy's showed where the chips truly fell musically though. Thank you again, Fagen and Becker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormhole Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Come on now. You know what the Brittney Spears phenom is about. T&A!! And you know when the gravy train stops Playboy will come a knockin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guestuserguestuser.com Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 All I know is that Britney Spears in that private schoolgirl uniform with the hiked-up skirt = instant wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthetic Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 As much as this horrifies me, I kinda like the Oops song. I also like the David Frank production behind Blonde #2's Genie song. (Why am I admitting this in public? Will my Keyboard magazine subscription now be revoked?) Britney's songs sound the same just like any other pop music from any other modern era sounds the same. -jl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham English Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 She is fine! http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/net6/smile18.gif ++ Graham English ++ Ear Training, Songwriting Tips, and Music Theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 dB said... >>and all of them seem to have pretty much the same melody line delivered in exactly the same obnoxious squeak by Ms. Spears. "AHA! You've figured out the formula...now, I can make YOU TOO rich and famous beyond your wildest dreams...all you've got to do is sign on the line here, uh, in blood if you don't mind. Excuse me, my hat isn't fitting too well, must be the horns...er, and my pointy tail is trying to poke a hole in my pants. Wouldn't you say your soul is a small price to pay for glory? Nyah ha ha ha ha ....there you go, atta boy, now that didn't hurt a bit. See you in a few years...hehehehe....UH, HOLD THE ELEVATOR, PLEASE...GOING DOWN...ALL THE WAY DOWN..." "Who was that guy?" "Hell if I know.." "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogman1 Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 All this Britney talk makes me want to get my belly button pierced. Now if I could only find my belly button... Tom Tom Nord Electro 5D, Modal Cobalt 8, Yamaha upright piano, numerous plug-ins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidCharlemagne Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Mot only does the music really and completely stink, with apparent zero effort to make it other than what it is (but what do you expect from the age of rap?) The T&A thing really bugs me too. not that she isn't hot, in her own sterile way, but really sexy girls are sexy because getting guys going gets them hot too. BS's body, like her music is just a product, and she puts it into the formula of the day for desired results. just my two cents on our prefab post-irony pseudo-culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyPet Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 I have to shyly agree with Synthetic, up there. I kind of like "Oops". Now, I haven't heard *any* of her other stuff, and I can see how if they all sound alike that would become rant-worthy. The production of "oops.." has a Jam and Lewis style to it, and I dig their work with Janet Jackson. pumpin' stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guestuserguestuser.com Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Originally posted by HeavyPet: The production of "oops.." has a Jam and Lewis style to it, and I dig their work with Janet Jackson. pumpin' stuff. I've noticed that a lot of keyboardists seem to like Janet Jackson. I've seen her get good reviews even in Keyboard mag over the years. I guess the backing tracks are ok, but it's very formula. Janet Jackson's voice is one of the smallest in showbiz to my ears, and the videos have followed the same formula now for about 15 years. Come to think of it, so have the songs. So, can someone please explain to me why people like JJ so much? And what was with that "Icon" award? Huh? Icon of what? Formulaic pseudo R&B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham English Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 I think Janet's grooves get a lot of attention because of Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. They're a couple of very talented producers from Minneapolis and got their start in the band, The Time. I've always been a fan of the grooves but never the voice. She got nothing for me......except http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/sp/chefico.gif Can't say I understand the award either. But I gotta defend my bros Jam & Lewis http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/net5/smile-mad.gif But ya know...life would be pretty mediocre if we didn't have bad music to compare our good music to. http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/net5/greenchainsaw.gif This message has been edited by transrational on 03-20-2001 at 09:41 PM ++ Graham English ++ Ear Training, Songwriting Tips, and Music Theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innesireinar Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Originally posted by Dave Bryce: WARNING! This is fully intended as a rant thread...anybody not wanting to participate in picking on insipid mainstream formulaic pop, go away now. You have been warned. Is it my imagination, or are all of the Britney Spears songs, like, exactly the same song? I haven't heard her albums, but today I had her third "hit" spoonfed to me at the gym (boy, is their demographic info off base...) and it sounds to me EXACTLY like the other two - that "Ooops! I did it again" thing, and that one about how she's a star. All are right about 100 bpm, all of the have hi hat and synth going tinktinktink squarely on all of the eighth notes, all of them have those stupid orchestra hits right at the top of each section. All of them have one or two lines of the vocals run through some sort of vocodor or filter, and all of them seem to have pretty much the same melody line delivered in exactly the same obnoxious squeak by Ms. Spears. Oh, and if I hear her go "yeah yeah yeah" though that megaphone filter effect one one more time... http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/s/paladin/uzi.gif At least the other little blonde can sing... dB Take all Britney tracks and all 'N sync tracks, cut the vocal parts and you'll have always the same track. Ranieri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldini Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Okay - so this proves that we think waaaay to much alike, Dave. As soon as the "Oops" track hit the airwaves, I quickly (after some severe nausea) changed the lyrics to "Ooops ! I did it again... I sang the same soooong - so Hit me baby one more time" - which, by the way, I would very much like to accomodate her with. It seems, as others have mentioned, endemic to the industry: vapid lyrics, shallow, repetitive hooks and a complete lack of musical integrity whatsoever... but be reminded - that many of the cats who are "penning" (if you want to call it that) these "tunes" (again used in the loosest possible sense) are extremely talented songrwiters (I know - because some of them are my friends). They churn out formula material based on what the industry demands - and that's a sure - or at least calculated for highest return on investment - hit. One could make the same complaint about the movie industry: formula, rote mechanics get churned out in slick, high budget packages that do at least marginally well due to completely centralized ownership of the media (if you don't know what I mean - explore more deeply everything that Time-Warner / AOL owns, then extrapolate that data to the two other mega-media-monoliths that own everything else) - they create buzz on their own product, whether it's worthy of it or not, guaranteeing at least some level of success. The real "quality" work presents a risk that is not favorable to the constant focus on the bottom line... nothing that does not create expected revenue or at least strong market awareness for related products that DO are simply not worth promoting - regardless of artistic value. Further fueling the dilemma is the fact that todays youth (now I sound like my grandad) grew up COMPLETELY on high-tech media, and, as such, have ALWAYS been told what is "cool" or "good." Despite their repeated whinings that "you old farts just don't get it," they're too young to realize that it IS US OLD FARTS who TELL them what is cool and hip - there aren't any 18 y/o media moguls that I know of out there. I sincerely believe that most don't even KNOW what strong musical content even IS - those youngsters experimenting with vinyl are, however, discovering some great old recordings. When I was a kid - my parents hated my music, too - but because it was loud, electrified, and risque... now I hate the music of todays' youth.. because it's simply BAD. I went to a techo-club in germany (imagine Deiter - "Now is the time where we dance") - and a guy held a Cmin7 chord, with vibrato, for about 15 minutes straight to the delight of the crowd. (okay - as delighted as germans get). Towards the end, he just added a few random (it's modal, maaan) notes, proving he didn't have a CLUE what he was playing, and just sort of gave up and stopped the drum loop - much to my delight. I though - "Damn. I should do electronica. They wouldn't know what hit them." ;-) Okay - I need to get back to work. Ramble over. No charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Back in the days when I had time to watch MTV (and when they played videos) I would usually turn the sound off and play my own CDs, the effect was usually the same ('cept when Twisted Sister videos came on during Simon and Garfunkel). Britney would be excellent for this. "Oops, I wrote it again..." Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryhgil Posted March 24, 2001 Share Posted March 24, 2001 I think major labels justify their cash cow mega hits (Britney, Christina, BS Boys, N-Sync) so that they can stay in business. The moneys generated from these banal acts allow major labels to take chances ($$$) on the Radioheads and Macy Grays of the world. Unfortunately, the music business is generally no longer about musicianship. If you can program 4 to 8 bars of a 4/4 beat with a sample of a hit record, you have a better chance of making money (real money) than if you have spent years developing chops on any instrument. I also think that you have to have an agent by the time you're in kindergarden to make it nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOS Posted March 25, 2001 Share Posted March 25, 2001 Dave, I can't agree more. I've been saying since her second major single, "Don't you think Britney Spears song all sound the same." Of course, you have more music experience than I do to point out exactly what makes it sound the same. The thing that's really salt on the wound is when they (as in all those crappy pop groups) actually take credit and say "it's all about the quality ove quantity" or some complete BS statement like that. It's not like they even write the music. They're just given the beat and told to sing the following lyrics. I'm willing to make a bet that 90% of current popular artists (whether it be rock, hip-hop, or pop) can't read music. Mike Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2001 Share Posted March 25, 2001 Originally posted by DOS: Dave, I can't agree more. I've been saying since her second major single, "Don't you think Britney Spears song all sound the same." Of course, you have more music experience than I do to point out exactly what makes it sound the same. The thing that's really salt on the wound is when they (as in all those crappy pop groups) actually take credit and say "it's all about the quality ove quantity" or some complete BS statement like that. It's not like they even write the music. They're just given the beat and told to sing the following lyrics. [ I'm willing to make a bet that 90% of current popular artists (whether it be rock, hip-hop, or pop) can't read music.] Mike Mike Actually Mike, that is a disservice to some fine musicians out there who don't read. It's not...can't READ music. Read should be replaced with PLAY,COMPREHEND or STAND. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted March 26, 2001 Share Posted March 26, 2001 Well, the Britney Spears music corporation netted $38 million last year, before taxes. Musicians may find her performances disappointing, but a large number of musical laypeople apparently find her act satisfying enough to spend a lot of cold, hard cash on her CD's and promotional materials. This leads to a larger question. What does the general public want from music, or more broadly from a musical act? Musical content probably has little to do with it in many cases. Many people want a dose of image, coolness, fun, fashion, cheesecake, outrageousness, or controversy wrapped up in a tuneful envelope. Ms. Spears' music is obviously good enough to fulfill this function. Her fans love the whole package: the clothes, the mug shots, the boy band boyfriend, the dancing, the recognizability, the awards show appearances, the gossip, and even the rags to riches illusion of a person with limited talent who rose to superstardom. People who are only interest in music won't buy her stuff - and I'm certain that there are many people like that, too - but for those who just want to be wowed by a cheerful and relatively attractive young lady, Spears, Inc. fills the bill VERY successfully. By the way, all of The Gin Blossoms' songs sound the same. Ditto The Outfield and The Offspring. Does that mean that these acts are inept? This message has been edited by dansouth@yahoo.com on 03-26-2001 at 05:21 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txb97 Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Yes Its true. Take a look at Studio CHEIRON http://www.cheiron.se producers for Celine Dion, Bryans Adams, Britney Spears, BSB, N-Sync... this is THE studio for "crappy pop music". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-kay Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 well.. "Oops, MAx Martin did it again.." or I think at least it's him behind the scenes. What is music, is there bad music?, NO!. People will get tired of Britney Spears as will everybody when they eat hamburgers for breakfast, it just takes a while. And til then we'll have to endure, or turn off MTV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x factor music Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 All of The Outfield's songs did not sound the same. jeremeyhunsicker.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfoolsynthfool.com Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Britney is to music, what Jerry Springer is to journalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombastique Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 So, who ARE these people buying all these Bratney and N'Stync cd's anyways? Personally, I don't know ANYONE that has actually bought any of them. Where do these people come from?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 They're my teenage kids... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve44 Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 and they come from the mall. I saw bits of the grammy performance and I was surprised to see that it was a good act - the dancing I mean. While BS often did her annoying running/dancing thing, they did put on a good "show". It was interesting, though, how obvious they made the transition between her sung part and her lip-synced part.. it was like, one moment she sounds crappy, and the next she sounds like she's in a recording booth (but still crappy). Beyond the show aspect, the music has two issues: BS singing and the backing tracks. There is no doubt that the backing tracks are well produced and create a lot of energy, even if that's not the energy of musicians interacting, but just of whatever fad is on taking charge. They are as formulaic as anything can be, but they're produced as a money making machine, so I don't blame them for simultaneously sounding lively and completely dull and unoriginal. Then there's her singing... and that's what really pisses me off. She has some semblance of a good quality voice, but she's always throwing in those dirty gospel-esque twists in her tone that make her sound project the sex image, but also says to me that she doesn't give a damn about singing, but just wants to impress people. I think it's rather annoying that people actually like this pseudo-stylistic stuff that is so constantly overdone that you can't tell if she can sing through one bar without putting some "uh-huh" thing at the edge. Oh and as far as the T&A thing is concerned, it's not really that, it's really all about the belly button. Do not look directly into the navel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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