How do you write?

[Dave Bryce]

While posting a response to Bassment's "Which came first, the sound or the song?" thread, this series of questions came to mind:

 

Do you have a particular way that you usually like to write music? Y'know, does an idea maybe start as a scratch piano part on the sequencer, or a drum line, or a maybe just a melody in your head? Do you just like to turn on your equipment, select a synth, and mess with it for a while until you come across something inspiring?

 

Maybe (like me) you keep a bass or a guitar around your studio, because you find that the different interface makes you more likely to voice things differently/play in keys that you might not on the keyboard...

 

All of the above? Some of the above? None of the above?

 

dB

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

All of the above.

 

I've probably written 500 songs and recorded 200 of those. Of the twenty of those that are actually good, I've noticed a pattern: I did NOT use an instrument when starting the song.

 

Not to sound too much like Carlos Santana, but I really feel like there are outside sources that create the song and I am merely a conduit in getting them out in the air. My very best songs have started from me humming a melody line while imagining an arrangement, then realizing that it isn't a song I'd heard before. That's when I pick up a guitar, or sit down at a keyboard, and try to capture it as quickly as possible. Then I go about the process of fleshing out the arrangement and actually trying to make the recording sound good

 

These songs have come to me while driving my car, in the shower, sleeping, and basically doing anything but *trying* to write.

 

Good topic.

 

- Jeff, TASCAM Guy

[Pim]

The creation of my best songs always start with a synth-lick.

Than the beat and bassline, and after that I take my vocoder to compose the lead vocal part and background vocals.

I can not sing very well, so the vocoder (Roland SVC350) gives me an unlimited note-reach.

 

Strange, but most songs are finished without the initial synth-lick.

Leave out what you like most...

 

Sometimes the acoustic guitar can take me to chord structures that I would never thought of while playing a keyboard.

 

------------------

www.dancewave.nl

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by pim@dancewave.nl:

Sometimes the acoustic guitar can take me to chord structures that I would never thought of while playing a keyboard.

 

Me, too - that's one of the reasons that I asked the question. I started thinking about how differently I write on guitar and bass than I do on keys, then I started thinking about how differently I write on piano vs. synth, then I started thinking how differently I write on JP-8 vs. QS8...

 

...sometimes I'm just playing with the arpeggiator in Digital Performer...sometimes it's just a groove I get going with the DM Pro...more different results.

 

Sometimes it's a sentence or phrase that I hear. I wrote a whole carribean groove tune in my head after seeing the name POMBO on a real estate board while driving from Sacramento to SF one day...I just loved the way the guy's name sounded....couldn't get it out of my head. Go figure.

 

This topic is a source of constant fascination to me.

 

dB

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Dave Bryce (edited 11-26-2000).]

[Tedster]

>>>Sometimes the acoustic guitar can take me to chord structures that I would never thought of while playing a keyboard.

 

And vice versa. Sorry, I'm a geetar guy, but this topic is interesting to me, too.

 

Never know what will provoke a song. I think the element here that's fascinating is change...one gets comfortable with one's own instrument to the point of predictability, and then you pick up something else, and even if that's not your main instrument, it forces you to play (or at least think a bit) like someone who does in fact play that instrument, and the results can be surprising. The predictability goes out the window, and things sound interesting again. I've written tunes off bass licks, guitar and keyboard riffs and chord changes, as well as melodies that drift through.

 

But what do you all do when you've got a verse without a chorus or vice versa...?

 

Ted

[Pim]

Originally posted by Tedster:

>>>But what do you all do when you've got a verse without a chorus or vice versa...?

 

Ted

 

That's the beauty of todays technology: you can store things and use them months or even years later.

I love to load in old ideas and listen to them. With a bit of digital glue you can stick things together in such a manner one would never think of...

Pim.

 

------------------

www.dancewave.nl

[marino]

You guys definitely don't want me to get any sleep...

 

This is an important topic IMO. I'd like to share my experience (God help my English), and I love to read others'.

 

I've written masses of music in my life, from symphonic music to rock and pop, a bit of techno and ambient, tons of jazz, and everything in between.

 

First, I've noticed that the more I get involved in *different* music fields, the more I get good at writing ANY kind of music. This has worked for me at least: You have a kind of cross-pollination that sharpens your ear and imagination.

The more I get old (aaarghh) and experienced, the more I am able to get an exact mental picture of the piece *before* writing anything. Then it's a (almost) simple matter of not losing that initial image, and to make it through the "middle bits" of actually building the piece.

 

Of course, often wonderful accidents happen, especially with synths, that make you change direction... But in my case, more often than not, I make a note of those discoveries for a further piece, and keep pursuing my original goal.

 

So by carefully listening to many kinds of music, studying other musicians' techniques, and composing constantly, you slowly build the most important composition technique IMO: The power of conceptualize a piece, and a sharpening of your inner ear. Learning to listen to your inner ear, and being able to translate that into notes and sounds, is the single most rewarding musical experience to me.

 

marino

[dansouth]

There are three basic approaches. The first is where you build a composition from ideas that you discover while playing an instrument. I call this the "instrument" method. Bands who compose together in real time often work this way. Roll the tape and see what happens.

 

The second method is when a song, a hook, or a piece of music strikes you suddenly, often when you're not actively trying to compose. I call this the "shower" method, partly because I get some great ideas while in the shower, and partly because the music just seems to flow over you like a wave of warm water.

 

The third method is what I call the "scholastic" method, where you start out with pen and paper (instrument optional) and develop ideas intellectually.

 

Pros and Cons - The "instrument" method can be fun and relaxing, but you can waste a lot of time and get nowhere. Also, the probability of rehashing old material is high.

 

The "shower" method is great for motivation, because you can start a project hearing the entire piece in your mind as a finished work. Unfortunately, trying to replicate an imagined orchestration can be frustrating.

 

The "sholastic" method can be challenging, and it's rarely exciting in the early going, but it can lead to ideas that you would never think of when composing on an instrument. Additionally, the scholastic method requires no hardware. You can compose with paper and pen on a bus or an airplane, for example.

 

I've used all three methods successfully, but I use the shower method most often. Ideas tend to come to me in waves. It's not always a complete composition, but I can often hear a minute or more of the final product playing in my head. I spend some time transcribing and recording the first wave, and the next one is ready to surge.

 

The sholastic method is good as a starting point, but I rarely have the patience to see an entire piece through to the end. I start plunking the initial idea into a sequencer and develop it from there.

[Jim Aikin]

Most often I use the throw-your-hands-at-the-keyboard approach if I'm writing an instrumental. I may sit back in an easy chair first and imagine, in general terms, what I'd like to write, but it never comes out the way I imagined it.

 

When it comes to songs with lyrics, I *always* write the lyrics first. Since my lyrics tend to be topical (I detest love songs), this is the best way to whip the content into shape.

 

My best song to date was an extreme example of the inspiration-in-the-shower method. I had read a newspaper filler article one morning about a monkey escaping from the Seattle zoo and being recaptured without incident. Not an inspiring subject, one would think. But that night as I lay in bed, a voice in my head said quite clearly, "Bobo goes for a stroll." After trying to avoid the responsibility for a couple of minutes, I got up, turned on the light, and scribbled down a few lines. The next day it turned into an 8-minute epic, complete with a "Hello, Dolly" quote ("Well, now, hello, Bobo / Time to go, Bobo / We've come to put you back where you belong").

 

I may even re-record it someday to make the backing tracks a little more modern, but I promise not to mess with the lyrics, which also include the hook lines, "So give her a parasol / Take her picture / Hell, take the whole damn roll / It's a day to remember / When Bobo goes for a stroll."

 

Top that if you can. ;-)

 

--Jim Aikin

[Tedster]

I've gotta hear it when it's finished!

[Rob Wallace]

I agree with Mr Bryce about using different instruments to spark off an idea. I am predominantly a bass player (no jokes please) but come from a synth background so I will chop and change depending on how the mood takes me. If it is a piano piece I will start with a chord structure as I am not a very good player but with a synth it is just as much a sound as opposed to a tune that will inspire me to write something. Playing a bass line on a guitar produces a totally diffent style to one composed on a synth.

 

I always start with the music as I find it easier to fit lyrics to a tune rather than the other way around. A song can start with a rhythm, a bass line (guitar or synth) or a chord structure or melody line. There is no definitive formula for this which I am glad of as it always leaves things open for new ideas. If I get stuck I just switch to another instrument and approach the song from a new angle.

 

These days I tend to write more music for theatre shows and musicals and this is a totally different ball game as the production dictates the style and the lyrical content. This can be restrictive but it does force you to work in a disiplined way that you wouldn't normally do and this can be drawn on when I go back to writing 4 minute pop songs.

 

I also totally empathise with you guys about getting inspiration for a song in places where you least expect it. When I first started work I used to keep a Casio VL Tone calculator/synth in my locker as it had a memory and I could use it as a musical notepad. If a tune popped into my head while I was emptying the incinerator, stacking shelves etc. I would store it on my little Casio and then take it home that night and make a proper demo from it to be used at a later date.

 

I wish I still had it as a couple of years later I was driving home from a different job which was about a 20 mile journey (I know that's nothing to you Americans) when I started humming an unusual melody. I had no way of recording this and so, rather than forget it, I kept humming the same four bar tune all the way home, completely blanked my Dad when I got there and made a bee line for my nearest synth. I did not relax until I had the tune on tape ! That was about six years ago and, even now, people say it is one of the best songs I've written so I think it was worth the effort.

 

Lastly, I will also mention that one of my best inspirations for writing a song is working with someone else. If you are stuck for a lyric/melody/synth line etc. they will invariably come up with the answer and vice versa. Bouncing ideas off of each other can take a song in a direction that neither of you expected and it also stops your songs from taking the same old route as well.

 

OK, essay ends !

 

Bassment

[x factor music]

Like most writers, I can be inspired by a new sound, instrument, sample, or groove, and write a fairly decent song around it. There are 2 methods that work best for me, however. The first is just cycling through drum loops, (MIDI, sampled, or otherwise), and coming up with a piano chord pattern or bassline over top of the pattern, then structuring and orchestrating the song around that. This is my favorite method, as the finished song hardly ever resembles the original idea.

 

The second method is a bit more restrictive. That's when you sing a melody line and construct a song on the spot, and try to write the accompaniment around the melody. Carried a mini cassette recorder around with me for awhile for this purpose, but I found myself wasting a lot of time trying to flesh out ideas that weren't all that good to begin with.

[Guest]

Interesting topic.

 

As a person with several unfinished soungs in my (mental) closet, I thought I would speak to the problem of making it through the messy middle of the writing process. (I am getting better at completing songs.)

 

Bobo's stroll sounds fantastic. I think you make the point elegantly about the sub-conscious being extremely intelligent. So it pays to listen to it.

 

Sometimes, if I have a writing problem, I go through the problem in the night (melodic range problem, akward chord progression, lack of a chorus idea, etc.), and let the other brain work while I sleep. When I get up, I don't go to an instrument or review the problem directly, but I may have an additional snippet running through my thoughts that is key to opening up new options for the song. So the songs get done more often.

 

Of course if my writing chops were better, perhaps my analytical mind (conscious) would lick it in the first place.

 

Cheers,

 

Jerry

[Dave Bryce]

Another interesting thread bumped from the back page...

 

dB

[Guest]

I have a good story regarding composing... I was fooling around with the 12 string

acoustic guitar patch in my kurzweil pc88mx, trying to get the right feel of how

an acoustic guitar is played, but wasn't quite getting it right. I left home

late afternoon and ended up being out all night, coming back around 2:00 am and

drunk. Then I realized I had left my gear and computer on, so I decide to fool

around a little bit. Well, the next day I couldn't believe it. Thank god

for sequencers. I had to correct some wrong notes, but it was exactly what I

wanted. Till this day I have never being able to replay with the same feel

I got that day. I should try that same day again.

 

I always play with cakewalk fired up. If I play something that I think has potential

I arm the track and go. I have a few directories that I try to organize on the type of style, so I can go back to it later. That's why I think it's important to have a synth with high quality presets. I often modify the sound I'm using but have

never been really good about creating one completely from scratch (other than

when I had a cover band and I wanted to emulate a specific sound from a song)

Music is a hobby for me, and I'm a believer that how you get there is most of the

accomplishment and not the end result, so I like to take my time.

 

So once in a while I'll revisit old ideas and try to build up on it. If I get a riff I like I'll paste it several times in a track and then arm another track and keep improvising. I hate writing on my paper because my music reading skills and theory knowledge is horrible. I'm actually looking to start taking piano classes to work on this. Reminds me.. any suggestions in the bay area?? (Dave?? I'm pretty sure you live around here)

 

A lot of times I like to learn the keyboard part of a song I like, and I try to

improvise on top of it till I get something different enough to warrant saving it

as an idea for the future.

 

I've pondered learning how to play guitar properly so that I can come up with new

ideas. Maybe I should blow the next $500 on a nice guitar rather than a new synth!

 

On a last note, I write mostly instrumental work since I can't sing to save my life.

Someday when I have more time I would like to work with someone who can play guitar

and sing and see where that leads me.

[steadyb]

It depends a lot on what the goal is. If it's an instrumental for a particular thing, like TV or film, then I could start with anything from a sound, or loop, or sample, to get things going. Then it's "add something here, take out something there", that's just the way I work.

 

If it's a song, then there's nothing like the reliable old piano (or in my case, piano "sound" on the QS8) for writing. If it doesn't come across as a good song on piano, or acoustic guitar, then, for me, it's back to the drawing board.

 

steadyb

[makalei]

I haven't heard of some tricks i'll call them to save those idea's like calling home and singing the melody into your answering machine also the piece of manuscript paper you keep in your pocket.Oh another good one is keeping a mini cassette player by your beds for those midnight insperation .Remember if you wake up at night and you don't save the melody it will go next door and someone else will get it.The most inportant thing I do is study and practice

[Qfiz]

I tend to use an emotion or experience to guide my writing/production. For instance, my most current project deals with computers and music, more specifically taking a piece of the computer system, say the modem, and imagine the experience of traveling through the connections at high speed, then putting those thoughts to music.

 

I also could be playing a sound or fooling with a progression on the keyboard or sample CD and be inspired. However very few of these songs ever make it to the Mastering Labs. Most of my songs begin with a feeling.

[Guest]

I write with my left hand. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

I write the best when I fall in love

and when she leaves.

Actually I'm quite happily married and am playing better than ever, but there is a degree of truth to what I said.

 

I, too, am both keyboardist and guitarist and I find that I have seasons on both. I would say piano and guitar are my most frequent starting points. Even when writing on my Triton, I find myself using an acoustic piano patch or perhaps a Rhoads sound.

My eldest son is a very gifted drummer and pianist. He has an evenly divided love for jazz and prog rock and it has made for an extremely interesting yet tasteful style. Ever since he has come on to the scene I run my material by him and he takes it to where, I am convinced, I know longer have the testosterone levels to take it. It just truly amazes me where a song can go when you give others the opportunity to be a part of the creation.

jwk

[BillW]

Doesn't matter if it's lyrics or notes, the ideas always come when I'm doing something else, and the farther away from the keyboards I am, the better the ideas are. Lyrics come at home usually, sometimes at work, usually a line or two at a time. I've got a folder of these scribbles at home for future use. Instrumental stuff comes in the shower or when I'm cutting the grass, which explains the green stains on the keys, and those oily fingerprints on the disks...

[rkipp]

Usually I write by just continually playing the keys, sometimes for hours on end, and usually something (good or bad) appears from that. However, I can think of a couple instances where jamming with the whole band led to different song ideas. What tends to happen more often is if one of us plays an idea to the whole group that everybody else lends an idea or a way to change a part that someone doesn't like. Except for a select few songs, I always write the music before the lyrics (it probably doesn't help that lyrics are not my strongest point, therefore when I do write them, it takes a bit longer), but a couple of times someone else will bring me lyrics and I'll put music to them. One time, my singer showed me a book of poems or lyrics, and I took a six-line poem and set music to it which eventually turned into a 15-minute composition. As far as playing on other instruments is concerned, playing on guitar is something I do relatively often, but yields little results in comparison with playing on the keyboards. Usually I write keyboard-based songs on the piano or organ and then embellish it with synth lines, strings, etc.

[dansouth]

Originally posted by bwilcox@hcarchitects.com:

Doesn't matter if it's lyrics or notes, the ideas always come when I'm doing something else, and the farther away from the keyboards I am, the better the ideas are. Lyrics come at home usually, sometimes at work, usually a line or two at a time. I've got a folder of these scribbles at home for future use. Instrumental stuff comes in the shower or when I'm cutting the grass, which explains the green stains on the keys, and those oily fingerprints on the disks...

 

This sounds really familiar. I used to get wonderful ideas in college while studying for calculus and physics exams.

 

The Muse is a fickle creature. When you chase her, she runs away. If you force the issue, she mocks you and spits bad music in your face. But if you focus on something else, she comes running back to see why you're not paying attention to her. Typical female! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Anyway, I still love her, and she treats me very well, even if spending time with her can be a little maddening.

 

Hey, be careful with that mower!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[BillW]

Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

This sounds really familiar. I used to get wonderful ideas in college while studying for calculus and physics exams.

 

The Muse is a fickle creature. When you chase her, she runs away. If you force the issue, she mocks you and spits bad music in your face. But if you focus on something else, she comes running back to see why you're not paying attention to her. Typical female! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Anyway, I still love her, and she treats me very well, even if spending time with her can be a little maddening.

 

Hey, be careful with that mower!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

Maybe I should sample the old Snapper and see what happens.....

[Elfarran]

What you need to write music is INSPIRATION - whether it's brought on by a mood or emotion, some idea triggered by noodling on a guitar, a certain sound emitted from a synth, or just a hum in your head. I tend to think music when I drive in my car and put the arrangements together when I get home. Sometimes, I play guitar, bass, piano, synth, or just sing into the empty air. All good music comes from Heaven or your inner self - depending on your religion - and if you just let it come out without tryng to force it out, you can tweak it here n there later on when you fine tune the arrangement. If you get really pissed off or really hyper-happy, then probably writing music is easier because your adrenaline and what-not are pumping away in full gear. When I get really confused, I collaborate with my guitarist, who isn't a very prolific songwriter, but he's good for making decisions and encouragement. Sometimes, we trade riffs back and forth before the final product emerges. The bottom line is to not stress about it. If you wake up in the middle of the night with a great idea, GET UP AND RECORD IT IMMEDIATELY. Otherwise, by morning, it will have gone the way of the darkness and you won't likely find it again. In the end, toss out all your crappy stuff - no matter how hard you sweated at the time. If you keep what's great, you will eventually accumulate enough good material to write a serious record. Oh yeah, record EVERYTHING and keep your archives. You never know when that silly riff is what's needed to make a mediocre song a hit. Also, you never know when you play around on an instrument whether it's going to be awesome - and if it's not recorded, you won't be able to recapture it if you were just casually noodling. The cheapest tape recorder will do. I paid $30 for a Sony old-fashioned built-in mic kinda guy. Save the perfection for the final studio take.

[DrMarkAndersenexcite.com]

What a great topic!

 

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what people have been saying

already. Starting points for writing a tune often differ for me.

Sometimes it's a drum groove (especially something really distinctive,

like a 5/4 or a 7/4), sometimes a chord progression, sometimes a

great patch on the QS8. Often there's a synergism between these elements,

in that a great patch will get me playing particularly nice chord

progressions or the like. Then I'll impose a structure on it (A B A B

bridge B B or something like that); the melody is often the last thing

I come up with.

 

Also, things often turn out very differently than planned. Recently I'd

just finished a mellow acoustic New-Agey thing, and wanted to write

something a bit more synth-oriented, but still very mellow. I was

thinking along the lines of a Tangerine Dream-influenced sound. What I

ended up with was a 12/8 drum groove with some wicked 2-against-3 and

3-against-4 going on. When I added the bass line and some pad and lead,

I ended up with a slammin' synth-based 12-bar blues instead of the mellow

"space music" I'd originally had in mind.

[Graham English]

The most important thing for me is to always have something near me to get the ideas down. A pen and manuscript paper is always in my pocket. If I'm in the studio, the sequencer is always recording and a mic or line in is always within a few button presses.

As for the creative process, listening and space are the most important things for me. I try not to push or attack the space in which I'm creating. I simply open myself and recieve what I can.

[Guest]

Hey! This is a great topic...

I've never really payed attention to it but the best songs i've created, ( and i'm no singer, nor can I usually write lyrics,)were made when I was going thru some rough times. Usually in my car driving long distances, no instruments or music sheets.Everything came at once, melody, chords, arrangments, and words!!! maybe I should get in trouble more often...:-)

 

Jean