Master Zap Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 If you wanna go to source, why not use a magnetic pickup with a built-in autotune, which, when detecting a pitch that is off induces a *new* vibration *into* the string by *applying* the proper correcting magnetic field? (OR a little servo returning the string?) That would be fun http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Other than that, I make far too little from any PRS for this "challenge" be intersting to me anyway. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Why not just give me the Billions with a B and I load up whatever tuning table you want in my synth and compose a little for you? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif *tounge in cheek* /Z /Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 10, 2001 Author Share Posted June 10, 2001 Zap, who knows? Maybe we can at least slice off a little sliver for you somewhere downstream. You've sure earned something. In fact, one day after the smoke clears I'd enjoy having you do a little private music for me. I get off on a wide spectrum. (Even tried composing a little country & western back in the 50's.) Yes I'll fess up. I thought Hank Williams was God's gift to the world. However, unlike many would be Caruso's, it didn't take me long to figure out I had better find something better to do with my time. Fortunately I did. WF puts that magical word behind his name; 'Songwriter'. Proudly I'm sure. I envy him the privilege. Composers are my favorite kind of people. You make the world sing, but usually get little recognition. And unless you agree to be gangraped, little $. (See my brief comments over at the thread about the purple one.) >>>why not use a magnetic pickup with a built-in autotune, which, when detecting a pitch that is off induces a *new* vibration *into* the string by *applying* the proper correcting magnetic field? (OR a little servo returning the string?)<<< You're getting warmer Zap..... To do that without taking the sound digital would be quite an accomplishment. I have no idea how you'd fashion an analog AutoTune by applying proper correcting fields..... & I doubt any servo would be fast enough. I have previously thought about this subject at great length, and much as I don't want to I'll defer til later to give you my solutions. I'll direct you & everyone else to an URL where you can bog down at leisure. It's about 40 pages long. (Actually, no one really needs to 'read' it. But it's there for those bravehearts who want to.) I have a massive meeting tomorrow (Monday) with lawyers & so forth. I'm quite content with what we've (the in gang) all been able to get done in a short bit of time. Very soon we start a new thread. There's still a lot of fat to chew....... It will be necessary for me to step out into the open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Originally posted by Master Zap: If you wanna go to source, why not use a magnetic pickup with a built-in autotune, which, when detecting a pitch that is off induces a *new* vibration *into* the string by *applying* the proper correcting magnetic field? (OR a little servo returning the string?) That would be fun http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif /Z The reason I put forth KBP's discovery of the Lightwave for the purpose instead of magnetic pickups, is the inherent limitations of magnetic pickups for tracking, Zap. To trigger Midi, a magnetic pickup has to read a half wave of the fundamental in order to track properly. This takes time. It's the cause of delay in all the Roland GR pickup, pitch to Midi converters. The electronics have become superfast, but they HAVE to wait for that half-wave to complete before triggering. So with magnetics, you could never reduce that delay unless you figure a way to "sense" the note before it produces a half wave. With optical pickups, you can trigger faster, less delay, to the point that many players consider it unnoticeable. I can't remember if it was Lightwave who put forth the system. I thought it was a company called Optek. I'll have to check back. Neil It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 11, 2001 Author Share Posted June 11, 2001 Fantasticsound. What the heck are you doing up this late on a Sunday night? I thought Optek was that Co. that used to make those guitars with all the led's on the fretboard. Whatever happen to those? Not that I care... Here's an update. I have all fingers crossed that by Tuesday the new thread will launch. I'm gunning for it. I'll make a partial close of this thread, which I think is (successfully) over (except for our residual comments & updates through tomorrow or so). The new post is presently under construction and is too blasted big! It has a bit of history, where we are today. what needs to be done yet, the future we're trying to finish the design on. And a lot of things needing input from the genies. Oh well.... Now for a few comments that I've been stifling, waiting (in vain) for Popmusic to return. ((After)) he left our forum in a huff, he started his very nice thread (new millennium). Well (instantly!!!!) I wanted to jump in and say a few things. But I was in his doghouse (unfairly) & didn't want to ruffle his feathers. So I stayed silent. But now I'll try to express my thoughts. His opening statement was >>> In the '70s, it was the wah wah pedal. In the '80s, it was the gated snare drum sound. What are the musical or production cliches of the '90s and early '00s? What's the stuff which *might* seem cool now but we're going to look back with embarrassment in 15 years and go, "Geeeez... Did I really think *that* sounded good?!?!?" The very 1st reply from KHAN was one word >>> Auto-Tune... <<< Popmusic quickly agrees >>>OK, my votes are for Autotune, too much compression on a mix, and sampled drum beats in pop/rock songs...<<< Notice AutoTune is 1st on his list of 3 items. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but can we set any test subject down and have them not fail to pick out too much compression? Can that same person not fail to pick out sampled drum beats? I would bet Popmusic's trained ears would score almost 100% on either test. But I ask this as a nice guy, not trying to provoke, but could he really score better than 50% (a chimp trained to punch a yes or no would score that) on an A-B AutoTune test? I ask it again. Could he outscore the chimp? Barely, and I'll tell you why. Because it's an A-B test. He would automatically choose the music section where the vocalist sounds a little flat or sharp as the natural unprocessed example. (What every vocalist would call the worse track.) But I believe that to any random sampling of 'the record buying public' even if they were as skilled as Popmusic & could hear a difference, they would uniformly take the tuned vocals over the non-tuned. (Now that's just an opinion I hope I'm entitled to express.) There's a joke that David Foster even autotunes his own voice when he's on the telephone. Does anybody seriously think in 15 years David Foster will wake up and say "What a fool I was!" For something to be a cliche, doesn't it have to be at least detectable? I mean if it didn't sound better, why do 100's of thousands of units of AutoTune type programs & hardware fly off the shelves? And please, I hope nobody in their right minds thinks I'm referring to bastardizations of what AutoTune type programs can do. i.e. Cher's old hit. That was a tongue-twisting effect, not 'tuning'. So in essence, what I'm asking is, does AutoTune even qualify as a cliche? Compression, sampled drums parts, yes. But helping a singer hold his or her head up a little higher... What the heck's wrong with that? Admit it, if you don't hear both versions as a reference, how the blink are you gonna say if the finished version was AutoTuned at all? Hopefully we all know the answer: If it sounds lousy, it probably 'wasn't' AutoTuned. Am I scoring any points here loyal posse? Or as Miroslav said earlier, pissing into the wind..... I'd welcome any input on this abstract little sore spot of unfinished business. If you disagree, straighten me out puh-lease. (Alert! I went back today (June 27th) to correct only typos & spelling for many of my posts for this thread.) This message has been edited by wilpye on 06-27-2001 at 06:34 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 11, 2001 Author Share Posted June 11, 2001 Curve Dominant. You've launched a hilarious new thread 'How Can I Take The Fuzz Out Of A Distorted Guitar Track?' & I wrote you a reply. I'd like to also put my reply here on this site: Brother Curve. And I thought we were on a roll together. MMM-MMM You have every right to question (ridicule) what's going on. I sure would in your shoes. Your post made me laugh, too. You're really Jay Leno, right? I said 99% of the people...etc. So stick around, keep an open mind. I'm about to give you a flesh & blood person to talk about, not a wispy bunch of lines on a page. Getting people to give me patent ideas. Sounds like thievery. I hate hate hate thieves. Old school I guess. Purloined patents from all this constructive chatter? I don't think many inventors work that way, but what do I know? When you exposes ideas online, they're in the public arena, they're INSTANTLY not patentable. All I see are some really thoughtful guys helping somebody with weak legs trying to cross the road. But your eyes are probably a lot younger & stronger than mine. Everything we talked about involved using existing technology. Daughterboards & all that. We might drive up sales of these pick-ups, but what else? I don't own that particular company, nor even heard of it before it was mentioned. Great product though, worthy of its own thread by somebody. By the way, do you care to tell us whether you see any annual income from a PRO? You're an anonymous ghost, so why not? You should go ahead & stick your post on my thread. Strictly for historical reasons of course. Your new thread may not last too long. Remember the two swordfighters in 'The Princess Bride'. One says "I know something you don't know. I'm really left-handed." I hope we wind up friends. Mean it. Soon as I'm a real person to you, I'll ask you to do just that. This message has been edited by wilpye on 06-11-2001 at 03:58 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 This is totally insane. In the amount of time spent by this lunatic, he could have built a guitar. And would have had just enough time to tune it, record 32 tracks of nothing but guitar, had it mixed and mastered, and had been opening the boxes from disc makers so he could send us each a copy. Just re-record the damn track. If it's a question of not being able to recapture the vibe, than the tuning thing is irrelevent. Not to mention, if the guitarist did it once, he can do it again. And better, if he has the will. Don't get me wrong, I love technology. But, aren't there any limits at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 i just read the last page and i dont have a clue as to what is going on. i ignored this thread from the title... shoulda kept ignoring it. fucking twilight zone in here... reminds me of this joke: I recently saw a distraught young lady weeping beside her car. "Do you need some help?" I asked. She replied, "I knew I should have replaced the battery to this remote door unlocker. Now I can't get into my car. Do you think they (pointing to a distant convenient store) would have a battery to fit this?" "Hmmm I dunno. Do you have an alarm too?", I asked. "No, just this remote thingy," she answered, handing it and the car keys to me. As I took the key and manually unlocked the door, I replied, "Why don't you drive over there and check about the batteries. It's a long walk." alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFTurner Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Hey it's been a fun and intriguing distraction for me. >>>I'll direct you & everyone else to an URL where you can bog down at leisure. It's about 40 pages long.<<< If it hasn't been just a happy stroll down mushroom row I'm gonna feel compelled to read that 40 page, headache makin monster. ------------------ William F. Turner Songwriter turnermusic William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Originally posted by WFTurner: Hey it's been a fun and intriguing distraction for me. >>>I'll direct you & everyone else to an URL where you can bog down at leisure. It's about 40 pages long.<<< If it hasn't been just a happy stroll down mushroom row I'm gonna feel compelled to read that 40 page, headache makin monster. ROTFLMAO, WF... But I'm right there with you! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecreationalThinker Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 I am all for theoretical discussions, and this has certainly been a doozy. I just wonder as to the practicality of a device that would ensure perfect tuning (just vs standard vs stretch vs gamelon)? Would this only deal with static events? I have a song recorded in which the solo guitar bends a note upward over a period of time. How would this device handle that type of artistic expression? Einstein said it (paraphrase) "A model suffiecently large to describe the Universe would be as big as the Universe". A device sufficiently complex to duplicate non-static note events with precision would be... ...just play the track again with the tuning corrected. Ouch, I think I just blew a synapse! P I'm not a "people" person, I'm a "thing" person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Yo, AJ, LMAO - I think I dated that woman once. Do ya think wilpye is really...nah, can't be. She didn't play guitar. curvpye dominapye Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miroslav Posted June 11, 2001 Share Posted June 11, 2001 Hey wilpye...I'm still wating my man. Why...? Are you gonna' come out of that closet like you promised? miroslav - miroslavmusic.com "Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 12, 2001 Author Share Posted June 12, 2001 WF & Fantasticsound I thank you both (& the in crowd) for participating up to now. WF, in your bones I know you know what's yet to come (the big picture) will not be just a happy stroll down mushroom row. Feeling adventurous, eh? Some people have taken a whole weekend to chow down with those 40 pages. (When I'm in scientific mode, things get dense.) And people think this thread was dense. HO HO HO RecreationalThinker >>> I just wonder as to the practicality of a device that would ensure perfect tuning<<< As Master Zap expounded: 1st you have to know what in the beejeebers perfect tuning is. (And there was a last clue for you Miroslav.) Another Zapism: We each decide for our self. Remember his mantra... I sure do. >>>a song recorded in which the solo guitar bends a note upward over a period of time. How would this device handle that type of artistic expression?>>> How indeed? Leave it the way the artist intended it. Only at most the attack or possibly the concluding sustain might need tweaking to not clash with the intended scale targets. Something AutoTune can do almost while asleep. Miroslav! Good to hear you wrapping it up. >>>Are you gonna' come out..?<<< I've only failed to keep a promise three times in my entire life. This won't be the fourth. I will periodically drop in for light monitoring. But the new thread is looming. It bums me out to leave everyone who cares patiently hanging, but the topic is one humongo chaw of terbakky. No wine before its time. (Late tomorrow at the earliest.) I will update as the launch comes in focus. All this energy that everyone marvels about (that we've poured into this thread) was in fact well worth it to me. I learned a heck of a lot. I got on a few people's nerves, but hey life goes on. Very tired. What a long day for the ole geezer. G'nite, all... This message has been edited by wilpye on 06-12-2001 at 02:36 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFTurner Posted June 12, 2001 Share Posted June 12, 2001 OK wilpye guess we'll catch you on the up and up, somewhere across tomorrow's horizon. Wish one of you innovative, deep thinkin, restless Gates types would have stumbled across some miracle of a contraption that could pick the life time of ideas from an old, tired, diminishing mind and make the immortal digital prints that would give it much needed validity and peace while a light is still shining. This thread has fit so nicely with and somehow contributed to the textures of the piece I'm putting the finishing touches on, "The Wonder Of A Dream". Next adventure please. ------------------ William F. Turner Songwriter turnermusic William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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