x factor music Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 Cakewalk's updated their website now to say that Sonar is shipping. Just curious if anyone's gotten it yet, or had any time to walk around with it a bit.... jeremeyhunsicker.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted April 6, 2001 Share Posted April 6, 2001 Day 3 and all is interesting.Cons:same ancient transport,still no DC offset removal.I'm using it with Win 98 SE so from what I understand from M-Audio tech support I can only use WDM drivers in Win ME or 2k and even then,only in 16 bit mode(shock).Pros:Better interface.Haven't tried the looping capabilities yet.Also a bounce to disk function that lets you stream your DXi's midi tracks to wave(cool).Conclusion?I'm keeping Pro Audio 9.03 for my main meat and potatoes work and will fool around with Sonar on the side until I see what pans out with the WDM driver issue.I can't just switch to Win 2k as other apps won't work(Gigasampler ect.)and ME is too slow and bloated for my taste,maybe Win XP?? "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted April 6, 2001 Share Posted April 6, 2001 >>Haven't tried the looping capabilities yet.<< That was the first thing I tried (got it Tuesday). It's like having ReCycle in your program. I imported some audio, told it to slice and dice, and voila - I changed tempo, and it went along just fine. I was pretty impressed, now I want to see how far I have to go in order to break it...record something at 200 BPM and play it back at 70, perhaps? So far so good. Not having any serious latency issues, even without WDM. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x factor music Posted April 6, 2001 Author Share Posted April 6, 2001 thanks guys...i am not sure if i'm ready to give up on pro audio 9x yet...the biggest nightmare about windows machines is the driver bullshit, and right now, if it ain't broke... jeremeyhunsicker.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted April 6, 2001 Share Posted April 6, 2001 If you use your normal mme drivers Sonar behaves just like Pro 9.But I did notice Sonar uses more CPU however. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Triny Posted April 7, 2001 Share Posted April 7, 2001 Originally posted by Alndln@hotmail.com: ...what I understand from M-Audio tech support I can only use WDM drivers in Win ME or 2k and even then,only in 16 bit mode(shock).?? that's incorrect. SONAR support 24bit with the WDM drivers. It's PA9 and other non WDM/Non Asio applications that are limited to 16 bits. I've asked M-Audio to update their information -david abraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Triny Posted April 7, 2001 Share Posted April 7, 2001 Originally posted by xfactor111@home.com: Cakewalk's updated their website now to say that Sonar is shipping. Just curious if anyone's gotten it yet, or had any time to walk around with it a bit.... So far I'm having a pretty good time with it. Native Instruments Battery (DXi version) is a killer drum sampler, I'm using that along with some ACIDized percussion loops, Dreamstation DXi for bass and Tassman all in the same project..in sample accurate glory... Couple of quirks here and there..but the direction of the product is on target. -david abraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted April 7, 2001 Share Posted April 7, 2001 Originally posted by David Abraham Fenton: that's incorrect. SONAR support 24bit with the WDM drivers. It's PA9 and other non WDM/Non Asio applications that are limited to 16 bits. I've asked M-Audio to update their information -david abraham Thanks David,I saw the correction at their site.Luckily I have 2 24 bit capable cards in my system otherwise Wavelab and other apps that only use MME would pose a problem.I saw your section on Win 2k at Kvr-vst,cool!I just signed up for beta testing Win X-P(proffesional) in the hopes that I'll be able to run more apps in a 2k environment.I will recieve a copy sometime in May and will report my findings at Kvr-vst and here where appropriate. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Triny Posted April 7, 2001 Share Posted April 7, 2001 Originally posted by Alndln@hotmail.com: ....Luckily I have 2 24 bit capable cards in my system otherwise Wavelab and other apps that only use MME would pose a problem. Nice, that's an excellent solution. I saw your section on Win 2k at Kvr-vst,cool!I just signed up for beta testing Win X-P(proffesional) in the hopes that I'll be able to run more apps in a 2k environment.I will recieve a copy sometime in May and will report my findings at Kvr-vst and here where appropriate. Yes, SONAR, WDM and Win2k perform *very* well together. The one area of caution is this whole Win2k and MIDI timing issue. I'm using all internal plugin synths (DXi's and VSTi's) and these are definitey sample accurate in SONAR but in general there seems to be uncertainty with regards to hardware MIDI timing with Win2k. At any rate I may take the Windows XP beta plunge myself. KVR-VST seems to be a pretty good resource for plugin-synths in general, I'll be hanging out there a lot. My biggest dream at this point is to see a Giga DXi plugin developed, I'd like to use some GIGA strings and that Scarbee J-Slap bass in integrated fashion in the context of some SONAR projects... good luck! -david abraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mix2much Posted April 7, 2001 Share Posted April 7, 2001 I have it now, and I'm finding that it's crashing every 3rd time I use it. I running windows me, and a motu 2408. Pro audio 9 ran like a champ on this set up, so I'm not sure what the problem is. My screen just freezes up. It's a real drag because it seems like an ideal solution for me if it would remain stable. Glenn Halldorson Premiere Radio Networks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted April 7, 2001 Share Posted April 7, 2001 >>I have it now, and I'm finding that it's crashing every 3rd time I use it. I running windows me, and a motu 2408. Pro audio 9 ran like a champ on this set up, so I'm not sure what the problem is. My screen just freezes up. It's a real drag because it seems like an ideal solution for me if it would remain stable.<< Did you read the yellow read-me that came with the program? There are some pretty important things in there, like about de-installing older FX versions. BTW I de-installed PA9 before installing Sonar, don't know if that helped but Sonar has been running fine with W98SE on my system. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mix2much Posted April 7, 2001 Share Posted April 7, 2001 Thanks for your input craig. I know it's a stable program on 98se. I did read the yellow card carefully. I uninstalled cakewalk after sonar. Maybe it's time for a fresh install? I would go back to 98se, but I'd miss the wdm drivers. Then again, I miss stability more than anything. Glenn Halldorson Premiere Radio Networks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x factor music Posted April 7, 2001 Author Share Posted April 7, 2001 i'm guessing you can use your cakewalk files in sonar?? jeremeyhunsicker.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted April 7, 2001 Share Posted April 7, 2001 Yep, you can open bun's and wrk files made with Pro Audio in Sonar. I ordered the XL upgrade last week and I should get it early next week. I can't wait! -Dylan Originally posted by xfactor111@home.com: i'm guessing you can use your cakewalk files in sonar?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Triny Posted April 7, 2001 Share Posted April 7, 2001 Originally posted by mix2much@excite.com: I have it now, and I'm finding that it's crashing every 3rd time I use it. I running windows me, and a motu 2408. Pro audio 9 ran like a champ on this set up, so I'm not sure what the problem is. My screen just freezes up. It's a real drag because it seems like an ideal solution for me if it would remain stable. From what I'm hearing SONAR + Win98SE + 2408 is giving mixed results. but SONAR + Win2k + 2408 + Motu/WDM (beta) is pretty close to rock solid with tripled (3x) latency performance. -david abraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotobonhome.com Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 Originally posted by David Abraham Fenton: that's incorrect. SONAR support 24bit with the WDM drivers. It's PA9 and other non WDM/Non Asio applications that are limited to 16 bits. I've asked M-Audio to update their information -david abraham It may be true that Sonar can do 24/96, but most WDM drivers can only do 16/44.1 on a stereo pair, so far. M-Audio is one such driver. There goes my Delta 1010! Hopefully the WDM will be sorted out quickly. -rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 Sonar WILL do multi-channel audio as well as 24/96 with your Delta and it's current WDM drivers. It's other, non-WDM compatible apps that won't. -Dylan Originally posted by robotobon@home.com: It may be true that Sonar can do 24/96, but most WDM drivers can only do 16/44.1 on a stereo pair, so far. M-Audio is one such driver. There goes my Delta 1010! Hopefully the WDM will be sorted out quickly. -rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 Originally posted by xfactor111@home.com: thanks guys...i am not sure if i'm ready to give up on pro audio 9x yet...the biggest nightmare about windows machines is the driver bullshit, and right now, if it ain't broke... Well, caution is advised if you have a good working system and don't want a lot of down time. Backup is NOT an option, it is a MUST. Trust me, it saved my ass on this one. I just got my copy a few days ago and fortunately decided to got a cheap new system drive to put Win2K on while leaving my other NT4SP6 drive alone for dual boot back to a working system in case of problems - problems, what problems??????? AHHHH. There are tons of well tested NT4 drivers, installers, and apps around by now. Not so for Win2K. When they say "the platform is mature", what they mean is "the developers are mature". What works and goes in with ease on NT, can be a nightmare on Win2K. My first attempt ended with a system where all audio apps would crash - not sure why - some bad driver. Plenty of blue screens also. Re-format the new drive and try again with new approach. Install Win2K no service pacs or updates. Backup. Install Sonar, test, backup. Install next app, test, backup..... Time consuming, but worth it. Oddly I have not had to restore a backup yet this time and all is well - so I learned a ton the 1st time thru. Here's some of the pitfalls: Be careful of software that uses PACE for copy protection. The correct PACE drivers for Win2K are posted on the Waves site and the PACE site. some of the various Steinberg plug-ins and the TC Works stuff will break PACE by writing over the correct driver. I have a fix for that now. Not doing the fix can cause blue screens and possibly disk corruption. Also seems like some of the SW (who knows what), may write over some of the Win2K service pac fixes. This time around, I waited and installed them last. This is only a guess, but the difference in usability on my second round of installs (Sonar, WaveLab, Sound Forge, Samplitude, Waves Gold, TC Works Native, MS Office, MS Photodraw, Mixtreme, LynxOne, Soundblaster, etc...) has been night and day. BACKUP, BACKUP, BACKUP!!! Make sure you do a full system backup with ERD (the backup wizard is a right click on your drive, select Properties) Otherwise, Sonar looks great - only a few tests so far but some of the plug-ins seem to sound much better than the PA 9 ones. And they added a phase reverse switch on the 'channel strip' - like they were reading my mind or my posts. Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 Iv'e been running Sonar and Cake 9.03 side by side on Win 98 SE with no problems at all,no blue screen,no crashes ect.My only real complaint so far has been that it's more CPU intensive than Pro Audio 9,has the same old transport and no DC offset.Maybe when I install the WDM drivers it'll use less CPU since it was coded that way. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiccatt.com Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 Like I said, Cakewalk has gone moneyhungry and their product sucks. I guess you know you need a 400mHz computer to run it, right? That upgrade can cost at least $1,000.00 if not more like $3,000.00 Cubase, Steinberg product, is much more reliable with much better support and no 'upgrade' crappola from what I've been told. He's keeping the old version; that was my point: Cakewalk still doesn't work and they want more money from you! It's like some junkie stealing from mommy's purse to get another fix, cakewalk is, they're hooked on money coming in via the internet and they can't break the habit long enough to produce a real product. Sorry, Cakewalk makes the 'Losers List.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Triny Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 Originally posted by music@catt.com: Sorry, Cakewalk makes the 'Losers List.' Hi Musicatt: An interesting phenomenon occurred on the Cakewalk newsgroup last year. A certain fellow repeatedly bashed the product hoping to do damage to Cakewalk's reputation and product line in general. I won't go into detail but the most astonishing thing happened in that Newsgroup. The end result being 100% of the Cakewalk users appeared to become *even more* committed to the product and the NG enjoyed tremendous growth and the musician to musician helping behaviour went to dramatically new levels. The days of flatly bashing a product are coming to end, it's old, corny and boring. Enough people use each the products successfully to know that they work...in essense it makes the basher look rather silly. In the worse case scenario for the basher, interest in the product actually grows as dispassionate onlookers investigage to see what the hubbub is about. Steinberg, Emagic, Cakewalk, SF and others make solid products. These products may have quirks but they get the job done. At any rate I'm sure Cakewalk thanks you for bringing even more attention to the product & company. peace, -david abraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiraga Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 Sorry, music@catt.com makes the 'Losers List'... Why don't you admit it? You just haven't got the brainz to operate Cakewalk, dude.. I guess YOU need an upgrade.. from child to man.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr. rob Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 Originally posted by music@catt.com: I guess you know you need a 400mHz computer to run it, right? That upgrade can cost at least $1,000.00 if not more like $3,000.00 Terry James, I suggest you check out how much a computer upgrade costs, then Id suggest either eating your socks or your underwear, your choice. www.pricewatch.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 Cubase more reliable????? On what Planet???? This has be the most innacurate statement Iv'e read on any bbs anywhere period.Musicatt proves once again that he knows absolutley nothing about Music/PC/Mac/Software and probably life in general.Opinion is one thing,but when you go out of your way to to be completley ignorant on every statement you make(every one)you become nothing more than a joke. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 Originally posted by mix2much@excite.com: I have it now, and I'm finding that it's crashing every 3rd time I use it. I running windows me, and a motu 2408. Pro audio 9 ran like a champ on this set up, so I'm not sure what the problem is. My screen just freezes up. It's a real drag because it seems like an ideal solution for me if it would remain stable. I'm seeing the same thing on my Win2K setup - it plays PA9 projects fine, but if I start screwing around with Loop Construction or just in general jumping about trying things, it will crash or lock up eventually. NOt a high prodcutivity solution. Too bad because the features are killer. they just need an update soon (which will be a free patch as they always do). I'll probably install PA9(patch3) back on this setup and try it for comparison - maybe Terry is on to something RE the quality of this release. His ranting method of posts leave something(make that everything) to be desired, but hey, you gotta call 'em like you see 'em. I say this is experimental code for now. This message has been edited by stevepow on 04-08-2001 at 07:46 PM Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mix2much Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 I'd be curious to see how that works for you steve. I really like what the product is capable of, and I think some of my difficulties may be due to the fact that I have vegas, acis, and wavelab on my system as well. I uninstalled vegas, and it may just be coincidence, but it seems to have helped the stability of my system. Time will tell. These posts are very helpful....at least the constructive ones are ;-) Glenn Halldorson Premiere Radio Networks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 mix2, are the Motu drivers WDM? My cards are not and I think that could also be worth digging into (Since my legacy software seems to be fine). I have a SB card I can try that is WDM - only 16 bit though. I'm also going to try it on NT4, since that was a very stable setup for me - in spite of the Installer Warning of stability issues (like could it get any worse?) I don't have WDM cards anyways yet, so it's worth a try - I really want to be able to use the features they put it. Also, anyone know of some solid 24-bit WDM cards out there - anyone has a stable Sonar on Win2K setup running? Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 Follow-up: WDM Only: Much better with only WDM Drivers - main repro-able crash eliminated. Now where to get WDM drivers for Lynx and Mixtreme? Maybe new card? Ugh. NT4 Install: no go so far - the installer warns you, and if you try to proceed it shuts down. Off to hack the registry and try to fool it. Other: Christ, and if I get past these bugs, I just read the Cakewalk user forum and if you don't feel the 'pioneering' spirit in your blood, then wait for an update. I will keep banging on it for a bit, what is good about it is very good if I can get it working for more than 10 minutes at a time. Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Triny Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 Originally posted by stevepow: Follow-up: WDM Only: Much better with only WDM Drivers - main repro-able crash eliminated. Now where to get WDM drivers for Lynx and Mixtreme? Maybe new card? Ugh. NT4 Install: no go so far - the installer warns you, and if you try to proceed it shuts down. Off to hack the registry and try to fool it. NT 4 is not really an option, it doesn't support WDM or DirectX8. MOTU WDM drivers *on Win2k* are suprisingly stable and are giving 3x better latency then Win98SE. Mixtreme Win2k/WDM drivers are in beta (I have them) and are rock solid. M-Audio WDM on Win2k is solid as well (I have these too) but the integrated MIDI is suspect. -david abraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uh Clem Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 Originally posted by David Abraham Fenton: NT 4 is not really an option, it doesn't support WDM or DirectX8. MOTU WDM drivers *on Win2k* are suprisingly stable and are giving 3x better latency then Win98SE. Mixtreme Win2k/WDM drivers are in beta (I have them) and are rock solid. M-Audio WDM on Win2k is solid as well (I have these too) but the integrated MIDI is suspect. -david abraham Yep, No NT 4.0. How can I get those Mixtreme Drivers? BTW, PA9 seems to be working beautifully (with all the audio cards) on Win2K - like a breath of fresh air. Now I can tinker and get some work done on the same setup. ...getting better...disabled the Mixtreme for now and turned on disk caching (I have 512MB Ram) - big difference. Virtual Piano install...says Target OS not supported - hahahhahaha - duhhhhh. What a goof! This message has been edited by stevepow on 04-09-2001 at 02:59 AM Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital www.bullmoondigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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