Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Okay, So Who's Got Sonar?


Recommended Posts

Originally posted by GY:

It reports: "The driver could not activate your MIDI Express XT. Make sure it is properly connected and turned on and try again."

 

This doesn't help your situation but that sounds more like a message that would be generated from within the driver, not from within SONAR. Have you tried this with another sequencer to see if there's a different message?

 

-david abraham

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 112
  • Created
  • Last Reply

This thread reminds me a lot of when Cubase 5.0 first came out, over on the Steinberg site. The messages typically went "The update sucks," followed by "I've been using it and it works great," to "My computer is now unusable," followed by "I just finished my first CD using 5.0 and it only took a week."

 

I think what's happening to all these companies is they cannot anticipate the range of variables for systems, which goes literally into the TRILLIONS. At least with Windows machines, if you change your graphic card, your sound card, other peripherals, the CPU, whatever, then have a bunch of different drivers installed from various programs, all hell WILL break loose. Plug and play was supposed to solve this, of course...

 

I have great luck with my Windows machine, but I'm a minimalist when it comes to installing software or customizing the OS. So far Sonar has been working for me but I have not pushed it to insane levels yet...that's next!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Iv'e discovered that Sonar adjusts it's sample buffers according to the card selected as your main card in multimedia even if it's not chosen in Sonar at all.In other words if you have a Soundblaster for general pourpose and a Delta for your main audio recording for example example,the audio buffers will be set for your SB if it's chosen as your main card in multimedia.If you don't beleive me just look.Work around??Choose your main card as your main card in multimedia.I can't beleive no one has brought this up yet,even in the news groups.
"A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Craig,

 

I'm definitely a Cakewalk advocate, but in all honestly Sonar is not ready for primetime. I'd argue that system variables should NOT be an excuse to why a software program doesn't work as it should. The real deal with Sonar is that WDM support is what will make or break how the program works, and WDM as a whole is still in it's infancy. No professional audio card manufacture to this day has a release WDM driver including Yamaha who's still in beta after having a pretty solid driver for over a year.

 

The problem is that Pro Audio has traditionally worked great with any audio/MIDI card on the market, so people expect the same with Sonar. But with Sonar, a WDM driver coupled with Windows 2000 IS a necessity, and Cakewalk doesn't stress this enough. Also, Microsoft is still working out kinks with WDM, and will probably not get everything worked out until Windows XP is finalized. So you have a program with a technology that hasn't been fully embraced by most hardware vendors as well as current Microsoft operating systems. Something is not right there...

 

Try to use low latency input monitoring with effects or several Dxi's if you want to see how easy it is to break Sonar at it's current state. I used Cubase 5 when it first came out, and I regret to say that it was much more solid than Sonar when it was first released, so I wouldn't compare the two in this case. I also use Pro Audio 9, Vegas 2.0 and Cool Edit Pro on the same machine without any issues, so I don't think that system variables are playing effect on how Sonar works.

 

The bottom line is that software companies should wait until the code and technologies used are fool-proof until they release the product. I'd much rather wait for a program that didn't require several patches and system reinstalls even if it meant waiting an extra 6 months to use it. I saw the Sonar demo at the Guitar Center in Portland OR last week, and the machine locked up in the middle of the presentation while only playing back loops. This was a custom build DAW running Windows 2000, a Delta 1010 interface with WDM drivers (beta), and a 1GHz P3 processor. If Cakewalk can't make a full proof system to run Sonar, then I don't know who can. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to knock Sonar, but only to recognize that it's not ready for primetime yet and basic system variables are not the cause of it's issues. However, I have total confidence that with time Microsoft, Cakewalk, and supporting hardware vendors will make the Sonar experience well worth while and wait.

 

-Dylan

 

Originally posted by Anderton:

This thread reminds me a lot of when Cubase 5.0 first came out, over on the Steinberg site. The messages typically went "The update sucks," followed by "I've been using it and it works great," to "My computer is now unusable," followed by "I just finished my first CD using 5.0 and it only took a week."

 

I think what's happening to all these companies is they cannot anticipate the range of variables for systems, which goes literally into the TRILLIONS. At least with Windows machines, if you change your graphic card, your sound card, other peripherals, the CPU, whatever, then have a bunch of different drivers installed from various programs, all hell WILL break loose. Plug and play was supposed to solve this, of course...

 

I have great luck with my Windows machine, but I'm a minimalist when it comes to installing software or customizing the OS. So far Sonar has been working for me but I have not pushed it to insane levels yet...that's next!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well here's what I heard from Cakewalk:

 

Due to the strict copyright regulations surrounding music software I can not

offer you a return on your product (since it has been installed and opened).

The Sonar 1.02 patch will be available for download in a short while, and

will address all the significant issues in Sonar up to this point. I'm sure

you will find it a great aid in any problems you are experiencing.

 

Thanks,

Dave Czajkowski

Cakewalk Sales

 

This pretty much says, if you opened and installed the product and it does not function as advertied, you are fucked.

 

During my downtime waiting for the patch, I guess I could interview a few lawyers about how class action law suits work.

Steve Powell - Bull Moon Digital

www.bullmoondigital.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Dylan Walters:

I used Cubase 5 when it first came out, and I regret to say that it was much more solid than Sonar when it was first released, so I wouldn't compare the two in this case. I also use Pro Audio 9, Vegas 2.0 and Cool Edit Pro on the same machine without any issues, so I don't think that system variables are playing effect on how Sonar works.

 

 

 

I think that's part of the point though, my first few uses of Cubase5 where disasterous, and now it's pretty darn stable. I've been using SONAR pretty intensely and for me it's very stable (and it better stay that way)

My first few experiences with GigaSampler were horrendous and I still haven't recovered from that emotionally, yet Giga gets pretty rave reviews.

 

PA9 in all it's glory had some serious bugs before patch 1, I'm amazed no one seems to remember that...I guess because it was dealt with quickly.

 

But you're right, with WDM the foundation has been shaken, still, I'm running on no fewer than 3 solid implementations of WDM drivers, but fortunately I've been in communication with driver developers for months before the SONAR release. On paper SONAR + WDM is a literal beta experience, because most drivers are beta...true chicken and the egg phenomenon. Driver developers wouldn't get serious until Cakewalk shipped the product, now they are all scrambling to get the drivers done. So for those not willing to go through that experience I recommend using a SONAR 1.02/MME configuration as an incremental upgrade to PA9.03/MME (forgoing input monitoring and live sofsynth playing for the time being)

 

 

-david abraham

 

 

 

This message has been edited by David Abraham Fenton on 05-19-2001 at 12:12 PM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, that's the unfortunate reality of software. Unlike hardware, you stuck with software if it doesn't work out for you. This is just one of the many reasons why I think that software vendors should provide for fully functional demos. This way, you wouldn't get stuck with a software package that you can't use. However, I have no intention of returning Sonar any time soon. I have no doubt that Cakewalk will be able to work out the bugs in time, and that it will be well worth the wait even if it takes several months.

 

-Dylan

 

Originally posted by stevepow:

Well here's what I heard from Cakewalk:

 

This pretty much says, if you opened and installed the product and it does not function as advertied, you are fucked.

 

During my downtime waiting for the patch, I guess I could interview a few lawyers about how class action law suits work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I purchased SonarXL when it first came out, but I have yet to even crack the seal on the jewel case. Normally, I jump right in when I make a technology purchase, but I have been swamped with work. After reading the posts on this board, I may just cool my heels a while longer until some of the bugs are worked out.

 

I really enjoy working in PA9 (even though I didnt know there were updates available), so Ill continue to do so until the new drivers come out. However, anticipating that eventuality, I have a few questions:

 

(1) Will I get acceptable results using the Sound Blaster Live Platinum card with SonarXL? The SB is my current MIDI. I would like to get a more capable sound card, but I was waiting to see who would come out with the new drivers first

 

(2) I use an Athlon 900mhz processor with 256meg of RAM. Are there any incompatibility issues known or suspected with the Athlon and PA9 or XL? I had considered buying a USB sound card at one point, but was told that it wouldnt work with the Athlon. My main interest in SonarXL was the DXi synths, so I would like a sound card that provides the best sound quality.

 

(3) I have considered buying another PC to dedicate to Audio/MIDI, and relegating my current system to word processing and surfing for dirty poodle pix. Any suggestions?

 

(4) [And now for something slightly different] I currently record using a VS1680, and import the tracks into PA9 for editing and fine tuning. Although I can dump digitally into PA9, I have to go back to the VS1680 analog. Is this due to the SB or the VS1680? Which sound card would give me two-way digital transfer capability?

 

Thanks

I'm not a "people" person, I'm a "thing" person.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by RecreationalThinker:

(1) Will I get acceptable results using the Sound Blaster Live Platinum card with SonarXL? The SB is my current MIDI. I would like to get a more capable sound card, but I was waiting to see who would come out with the new drivers first

 

Yes you will get acceptable results for basic audio editing/mixing.

 

 

(2) I use an Athlon 900mhz processor with 256meg of RAM. Are there any incompatibility issues known or suspected with the Athlon and PA9 or XL? I had considered buying a USB sound card at one point, but was told that it wouldnt work with the Athlon. My main interest in SonarXL was the DXi synths, so I would like a sound card that provides the best sound quality.

 

Athlon is fine with SONAR. USB is touchy with all DAW's be very careful here. If I were in your shoes I'd move to a "Dual Boot" configuration with Windows 2000 (that means installing Windows 2000 along side of your current operating system) then install SONAR XL there along with Microsoft's WDM driver for your SBlive. That should get you up and running without compromising your existing Win9x/PA9 installation.

 

From there you can begin to weigh the pros and cons of various WDM enabled audio cards that are now shipping (M-Audio, MOTU, MAYA, Mixtreme etc) as well as cards that are due to be WDM enabled shortly (Echo Layla, RME, etc)

 

 

(3) I have considered buying another PC to dedicate to Audio/MIDI, and relegating my current system to word processing and surfing for dirty poodle pix. Any suggestions?

 

absolutely. Don't build it yourself, have one built for you...including drivers, SONAR...the whole thing...best way to reduce stress

good alternatives here include Jim Roseberry at studiocat.com, and Pete Leoni at Q Performance systems

 

(4) [And now for something slightly different] I currently record using a VS1680, and import the tracks into PA9 for editing and fine tuning. Although I can dump digitally into PA9, I have to go back to the VS1680 analog. Is this due to the SB or the VS1680? Which sound card would give me two-way digital transfer capability?

 

sorry I know zippo about the VS1680, maybe someone else can help here.

 

-david abraham

 

 

 

This message has been edited by David Abraham Fenton on 05-21-2001 at 03:31 PM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by David Abraham Fenton:

I'd move to a "Dual Boot" configuration with Windows 2000 (that means installing Windows 2000 along side of your current operating system) then install SONAR XL there along with Microsoft's WDM driver for your SBlive. That should get you up and running without compromising your existing Win9x/PA9 installation

 

How do you install two different windows and get double booting option? How stable is everything?

Ralf

Rock and Roll Aint Noise Pollution
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Ralf:

How do you install two different windows and get double booting option? How stable is everything?

Ralf

 

Usually you would partition your hard drive into two slices: one for each OS. If you already have Windows 9x installed, then when you install Windows 2000 it will ask you if you want to install onto a fresh drive or replace your current version. If you choose a fresh install, then Windows will automatically install Windows onto the empty partition. Also, Windows 2000 includes a boot manager, so after it's installed you will have the option to boot with Windows 9x or 2000. This works great on all of my systems.

 

-Dylan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by RecreationalThinker:

(4) [And now for something slightly different] I currently record using a VS1680, and import the tracks into PA9 for editing and fine tuning. Although I can dump digitally into PA9, I have to go back to the VS1680 analog. Is this due to the SB or the VS1680? Which sound card would give me two-way digital transfer capability? Thanks

 

The SB Live can't do bit-for-bit digital copies since it has a built-in sample rate converter that converts everything to 48kHz. A more professional audio card with S/PDIF from the likes of MIDIMan, Echo, or Hoontech will give you a true digital copy, so you might consider one of these cards instead.

 

-Dylan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I've been using Sonar extensively because I'm reviewing it for Keyboard magazine...my biggest problem has been getting Battery to work with the program. All the other DXi instruments work fine, including the Tassman. Battery works great, but if I save a file using Battery, exit the program, then restart, the computer freezes upon loading...strange. Then again, Native Instruments claims all they had to work with was a beta version of Sonar, so I wouldn't be surprised if the problem is simply that Battery needs some kind of small tweak.

 

I've been able to get latency down to 17 ms with regular MME drivers and a Dakota sound card, but this is right on the edge. 30 ms seems unconditionally stable. It's more than I'd like, but useable. I tried the Dakota WDM beta drivers with W98SE, but it wouldn't recognize the outputs...I just gave up. MME works fine for now.

 

I think the MIDI cut/paste issue has more to do with how you select your various clip options. IF you select "Replace old with new," then if you select a few notes and slide them over, they'll erase any other notes in that same space. I will admit I'm getting a fair amount of pilot error as I learn the new features -- for example, I was going crazy trying to find where to select the patch for a MIDI track, until I realized I had hit the "Mix" tab accidentally, which meant it only showed a limited set of parameters.

 

The looping aspect seems extremely solid. Absolutely no problems there at all. And the DXi instruments included with the program have worked like a champ, although I am not able to automate control settings by tweaking while recording, as I can do in Cubase...I think the DXi thing is still young, and will tighten up in time.

 

The interface changes are wonderful. Talk about customizable! Overall, I had the same experience as many of you when I first started...unable to do anything productive while sorting out the changes. But now that I've logged a lot of hours, it's a whole different ball game. Things are running very smoothly.

 

Now maybe I should download the latest DX8.0a to see if that solves the Battery problem. Once Cakewalk gets out a couple patches, this should be a killer program. But it's already very cool, once I figured out what was going on, and got the audio settings right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with you Craig. The more time I spend with it, the more I'm able to understand some of it's idiosyncrasies. I'm still having "automation" problems. I hope this is addressed in the next patch. I need it to work NOW! Potentially, a great product.

GY

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I talked to the support people, and it seems the Battery problem happens only if there's a kit loaded. So a simple workaround is to do your parts, then before saving, remove the Battery plug-in or switch to a different plug-in, then save. When you call up the song next time, put the Battery plug-in back in again.

 

Also, I was told that using a larger number of smaller buffers is generally, but not always, better than using a smaller number of larger buffers. So I tried six 2.9 ms buffers, and now I'm getting rock-solid performance with the DXi instruments at under 15 ms latency. That's a big improvement over 30 ms, and is definitely approaching that "real time" feel.

 

Several posts back someone wondered if controllers migrated with notes when you moved them. I'm pleased to report that it does this when you're working with clips, but also if you're in the piano roll view. Nice.

 

Unlike the effects you can't tweak the DXi instrument controls while you're playing and have them be recorded, however, you can record any MIDI controllers that are coming in and have them play back.

 

Things are really starting to fall into place now, and I'm not doing dumb things like editing on MIDI track 2 when I thought I was on track 1 . I'm not so sure this program has a learning curve, it's more like a familiarization curve. Some of the "features" that seem illogical at first make a lot more sense as you drill deeper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Anderton:

I talked to the support people, and it seems the Battery problem happens only if there's a kit loaded. So a simple workaround is to do your parts, then before saving, remove the Battery plug-in or switch to a different plug-in, then save. When you call up the song next time, put the Battery plug-in back in again.

 

Things are really starting to fall into place now, and I'm not doing dumb things like editing on MIDI track 2 when I thought I was on track 1 . I'm not so sure this program has a learning curve, it's more like a familiarization curve. Some of the "features" that seem illogical at first make a lot more sense as you drill deeper.

 

 

I had a fair amount of trouble with the Battery DXi as well, I'm testing some fixes for NI now so they are on the case, however I've had great success with FXpansion's VST Adapter and Battery in the interim.

 

I'm looking forward to your Keyboard review.

 

-david abraham

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've put in over a 100 hours on Sonar so far. Most of it good. It does take a while to learn how to use the interface efficiently, there's a lot there.

 

It's running quite stable on W2K but not so stable under WinMe. I'm getting 9ms latency(something like 27ms effective latency)with Layla 24 1.6 beta drivers. Waiting on their WDM drivers to see if they help those numbers. One of the things I'm most pleased about is the LiveSynth DXi.

I have numerous cds of drum soundfonts that I use for drum and percussion tracks and was of course chained to the SBLive. But I'm happy to report, after many hours of a/b testing, that the SBLive has been disabled in Sonar. Finally. Overall I think it's a good product that will just get better, can't beat CakeWalk's combo of audio and midi functions.

 

I recently spent some time at the SAWStudio site. Very interesting product, very expensive and no midi/sequencing. But, man, that's a beautiful interface they've put together, it appears to be highly functional and intuitive. I know Cake has to prioritize technical bug fixes in their next few patches but I would really like to see the ability to customize the views/colors/design of the track parameters. Allow the user to change the palette, adjust the size of objects and even move them around. Maybe add some basic schemes for users to customize, like skins for Sonar. With the amount of hours one can spend in front of the Sonar screen the ergonomics and aesthetics become very significant factors in the creative, recording and mixing/editing processes.

 

--------

Fishkid

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>>I've had great success with FXpansion's VST Adapter and Battery in the interim.<<

 

Yes, FXpansion VST-DX is killer. I'm amazed something that inexpensive and simple works so well! It's great being able to use VST processors and instruments within Sonar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been a Cakewalk user since version 3.0. After this Sonor fiasco I will not be purchasing any more products from Cakewalk. They are refunding my $200.00 for the SonarXL upgrade. I want to make music - not beta test. Sonar is for people who have no time restraints and can spend 80% of their time troubleshooting. The support team is pathetic. The guy I talked to (Chris) didn't know what a Celeron was. 'nuff said.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by dino321:

I've been a Cakewalk user since version 3.0. After this Sonor fiasco I will not be purchasing any more products from Cakewalk. They are refunding my $200.00 for the SonarXL upgrade. I want to make music - not beta test. Sonar is for people who have no time restraints and can spend 80% of their time troubleshooting. The support team is pathetic. The guy I talked to (Chris) didn't know what a Celeron was. 'nuff said.

 

 

not my experience, but I definitely agree that making music is the priority here, what in particular wasn't working for you?

 

-david abraham

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well you'll read all about it my Keyboard review, but my experience with Sonar was definitely not all roses. Installation and the technical end was fine, but I just wasn't used to some of the ways of doing things. For example, in the piano roll screen I'd use the arrow tool to select a note, then move it...and watch it disappear. I of course assumed it was some obscure bug, until I realized that the pencil tool does move as well as lengthen, transpose, etc., so you don't have to change tools in midstream. Also some of the clip protocols were really different compared to what I was used to, and I kept losing data because the "Replace old with new" box was checked instead of the "Blend old with new" box.

 

I finally just bit the bullet and read the entire manual, testing operations as I went along. I also figured out that it's smart to come up with some template sequences and layouts so you can get right into making music without having to "set up." Now Sonar is a very smooth, efficient music-making experience. It took me some time to get there, and being a bit of a tweak head, but in retrospect, it was time well spent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My problems were:

 

1) screen redraws so slow as to make the program unusable.

2) crashed when opening or closing my large BUN files

3) unable to handle files that 9.03 handled with ease

 

I'm running a dedicated audio system with:

Celeron 300A @ 450 mhz

256mb ram

dedicated 7400 rpm audio drive

Matrox G450 video

Win98SE

 

With Cake 9.03 I can get up to 30 tracks with 10 or so Pluggins. Sonar chokes and dies. What really pissed me off was the way I was treated by Cakewalk. I was emailing files and Dr Watson reports etc back and forth with Adam Burch. Then suddenly he sent a one sentence reply saying my system didn't meet minimum specs. I wrote him back to explain that I had surpassed min spec and he never wrote me back. At that point I had been blown off. So I called again and "Chris" (who was putting me on hold to go talk Adam every 10 seconds) said Minimum specs call for a 400 mhz. I explained I was running @ 450 mhz and told him I had a Celeron that has run rock solid for 1.5 years and that because my system was running at 100mhz Front Side Bus it is FASTER than the corresponding Celeron would be. He then asked me if my Celeron was an AMD chip!!!!!!!! I explained to him what a Celeron was and he came back (after putting me on hold again) and said "Does that use a K7 chip set?!!!!!! I explained again and he said "well how much do you know about over clocking?"!!!! This from a "tech support" person who doesn't know what a Celeron is!!! As I proceeded to tell him what I know about over clocking he hung up on me!

I then called customer service and got an RA#.

 

My point about this is that rather than say " I don't know what your problem is they used the overclocking as an excuse to blow me off. This is bogus because:

 

1) My system is rock solid with all other apps including Cake 9.03. The problems I listed HAVE NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH OVERCLOCKING - END OF STORY!

2) Cakewalk's posted minimum spec doesn't mention anything but mhz.

3) My system (Abit BE6II/300A) was one of the most common audio systems built by people on the Cakewalk news group when chips were expensive enough to need to overclock.

4) If I swapped out the Celeron and put in a PIII 450 Sonar will not magically not crash when opening or closing BUN files.

 

Granted their support lines were probably being mobbed by unhappy people but I work tech support for a major computer manufacturer and I've never hung up on anyone and don't deserve to be treated that way. If they don't want to waste time troubleshooting Sonar I certainly don't!

 

I was a loyal customer since version 3.0 but I'll never do business with them again. I'm moving over to Logic Audio.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by dino321:

My problems were:

 

1) screen redraws so slow as to make the program unusable.

2) crashed when opening or closing my large BUN files

3) unable to handle files that 9.03 handled with ease

 

I'm running a dedicated audio system with:

Celeron 300A @ 450 mhz

256mb ram

dedicated 7400 rpm audio drive

Matrox G450 video

Win98SE

 

With Cake 9.03 I can get up to 30 tracks with 10 or so Pluggins. Sonar chokes and dies.

 

Ok, a key thing that's different about SONAR is that plugins are always "live" that mean they are running even when you have the transport stopped (affecting screen redraw). In PA9 you could edit and tweak a project with relatively low CPU overhead, because the audio engine only ran during playback or record. To achieve similar "transport stopped" efficiency in SONAR you would have need to shut off the audio engine (in the toolbar). It appears that additional screen redraw issues were addressed in a 1.02 patch that's supposed to be shipping next week.

 

In order to support soft synth much has been made about "ultra low latency" but setting latency too low can compromise system stability (in any DAW) of course there's a natural tendency for people to shoot for the lowest latencies as a matter of challenge...but the applicable tradeoffs are not yet widely known among the typical Cakewalk user base, a 50-100ms setting in SONAR would likely be similar to what most people are using with PA9. Not the sub 15ms or even sub 5ms setting that many people are shooting for.

 

But it's true SONAR will put a heavy load on your Cel 300@450, especially the realtime playback meters, you might have been able to switch these off as well. Also SONAR seems to handle disk I/O differently than PA9, Defragging the disk inexplicably makes some PA9 files perform better in SONAR.

 

There's a been a fair amount of pain for users attempting to use WDM beta drivers on Win98SE. I think most people should use MME at first (especially Win9x users) and then move to WDM when everything else is under control.

 

Regarding inporting of PA9 buns to SONAR, with all due respect to Cakewalk's engineers that's not something I want to rely on too much. PA9 and SONAR are vastly different and too much can go wrong there IMHO. I'd rather finish projects in PA9 and start new one's in SONAR.

 

Your tech support experience sounds pretty intense, historically Cake support has been pretty good...but everyone knows what happens when software start selling well, there's seems to be some sort of negative correlation between high sales volume and high quality support :-)

 

At any rate I hope you find something that works for you, though if you're going to make a reasonable attempt at realtime softsynths you'll probably want to look into getting at least 700Mhz processor.

 

good luck

-david abraham

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont care about softsynths and never tried WDM drivers. I just wanted to finish my CD project and wanted the better FX, multiple virtual busses and improved interface in Sonar.

 

___________________________________________________________________

David Abraham Fenton wrote:

Ok, a key thing that's different about SONAR is that plugins are always "live" that mean they are running even when you have the transport stopped (affecting screen redraw). In PA9 you could edit and tweak a project with relatively low CPU overhead, because the audio engine only ran during playback or record. To achieve similar "transport stopped" efficiency in SONAR you would have need to shut off the audio engine (in the toolbar). It appears that additional screen redraw issues were addressed in a 1.02 patch that's supposed to be shipping next week.

 

I sure wish the Cake support knew this about their product. Adam Burch has been there for years and never offered such info. Even if I was not offered correct technical info I wouldnt have jumped ship so fast had I not been treated so badly. Ive given that Company well over $1000.00 with all my upgrades but I suppose they are doing so well that loyal customers dont have much value to them. Even so I would never treat anyone in such an unprofessional manner even those who might deserve it. I dont deserve it.

 

Anyway I found a better solution. The Roland Studio Pack (being released in June) has the Roland VM3100pro Digital Mixer (8ch digital i/o via the included RBus connector, 2 stereo FX processors like the VS Workstations, 2 extra compressors, 12 analog channels, s/pdif, 12 output buses and EQ on all channels.) This comes with a special version of Logic Audio. I figure I can upgrade to Logic Audio Platinum if needed. This setup gives me REAL HARDWARE BASED FX AND EQ!!! I can also use this setup with other software such as Cake 9.03 if I want to. I wont have to worry about cpu load or computer crap nearly as much (hopefully).

 

Im pretty sour on host based DAWs these days and would prefer to go all hardware but cant afford it and would miss the audio editing ease and power of most of the stuff I could afford. The new Roland VS2480 is pretty attractive but I still need a computer for MIDI. The only total solution Ive seen is this new Tascam vaporware http://www.tascam.com/products/sx1/sx1.cfm

 

 

 

This message has been edited by dino321 on 05-31-2001 at 02:04 PM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting about the screen redraws: one of the things that has really impressed me about Sonar is how zippy the screen is. Even when running lots of soft synths and plug-ins (and a video window!), the cursor kept running smoothly along, and the meters did their thing without hesitation.

 

I have an 850 MHz overclocked Celeron, so it's faster than the machine you describe. But I also wonder about the Matrox board. Is it PCI? I'm using an ATI AGP card, and when I switched video cards from PCI to AGP, it made a huge difference in performance with all my audio programs.

 

This isn't to say you should just keep banging your head against the wall about something that's not working for you, but Sonar is running very, very well for me. The problem with Windows systems is sometimes all it takes is one tiny misset preference somewhere, or some incorrect system tweak, and the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

 

BTW I have had to call Cakewalk tech support a couple times and each time I got the answers I needed. I guess it depends on who you talk to, but also, Sonar hasn't been out very long and I don't think they have much of a "knowledge base" yet. I am not trying to make excuses for Cakewalk; if you experienced bad tech support, then you experienced bad tech support. My point is more that if you surf the bleeding edge, you can expect to get wiped out periodically. It's like when I was going nuts with Cubase 5, getting terrible periodic system overloads even when nothing was happening. Changing the vcache values solved everything, but the only way I found out about this was by trolling Steinberg.net and seeing a post that addressed this issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Matrox Board is an APG board that I bought after hearing other people having success with it with Cake 9.03. Ive had no problems with it before Sonar. Its true about tech support its who you talk to and everyone has a first day on the job but I was talking to a senior member albeit at times through a rookie. Whatever the hidden gotcha is I havent been able to find it and Im just burnt on troubleshooting. My take on them is they were overloaded with problem calls and just blew me off. I have limited time available for music and I need to use it to make music. If the Logic version in Studio Pack gives me headaches I might trade my VS880EX for an 1880EX, use the VM3100pro for keyboards and just do audio on the VS. Its not nearly as easy or fast to edit but EVERY time I sit down to work on the VS it functions correctly.

 

This may be a subject for a new thread but I wonder what percentage of time people using host based DAWs (PC or MAC) have to spend screwing with computers. I used to be a tweak head when I first got into computers but now I just want to get some work done. Between upgrading drivers and OSs, swapping out hardware and chasing down bugs Ill bet even the most solid system requires 25% down time. The problem is to get PC/MAC DAW defenders to admit it. Think of what you have to go through everytime you get a new version of your Audio recording app. Cakewalk was virtually problem free in version 6 but for most people that I know since then its been a nightmare to get everyting to work correctly. Some people dont have many problems but If everyone would be totally honest about it I think they would be supprised at how much time they DONT make music. I think I would get more done with a harder to use, slightly less powerfull ALL HARDWARE soution.

 

 

This message has been edited by dino321 on 06-01-2001 at 09:53 AM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will definitely say from my experience that I think their newsgroup support (with the help of David) and their phone support defintely ranks MUCH higher above their e-mail support. With e-mail support I sometimes get the dumbest replies - at least my co-workers are amused.

 

Now Tassman - the support there amazed me - I called, and it got handled right away and I was talking to someone who did the actual development on it. I mentioned "tell the person(s) who did the graphics on their web site did a nice job" He said "Thanks - I did that too." http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Pretty funny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by dino321:

Im pretty sour on host based DAWs these days

 

With a 300 celeron, that's kinda like complaining your Ford Edsel sucks when you added Ferrari tires - the tires won't make a difference until you change the engine. With a 750 Duron processor at almost $50 these days, I'm having a hard time feeling sympathy toward a 300A anymore. Go out to pricewatch.com and upgrade your computer - seriously - a new motherboard, ram and processor for under $200. Otherwise, use CWPA9 until you're ready for an upgrade.

 

 

This message has been edited by Cymbals on 06-02-2001 at 05:53 PM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...