Katrina song 4

[Bunny Knutson]

Originally posted by Kendrix:

I sent CD's of the individual tracks to Bunny.

He should have received them by now.

...

If Bunny can load these into his machine and then ship them to you that would be great- Bunny?

Ken, I received the CDs yeasterday, and sent you an email to let you know. Did you not receive my email? I think sometimes my Hotmail account gets blocked by SPAM filters.

 

I made a reference mix, posted it up, and sent a link to Offramp. So, he should be able to get started tracking drums whenever he has time.

 

Oh, BTW, Ken, I really like your voice on this tune, also. It sounds great!

[Kendrix]

Bunny,

Good deal.

BTW - I didnt mean to fire you as drummer.

Off just asked to give it a try.

I suppose I violated some collaboration corner by-laws by doubling up.

However, you never know when a drummer is gonna go awol.

 

Tx for the comments.

FYI -That vox was tracked SoudeluxU195 into GR1NV a little comp via RNC- a little more on an older German made Berringer Composer (the pre-Chinese manufactured units actually sound great)then into the yammy AW4416 converters clocked with Lucid genx. At mix time I filtered below 150 or so and took a little out at 350Hz.

 

Im psyched to hear some real drums on a tune of mine. Ive got about 80 more of them.

Whaddaya say?

[offramp]

Bunny: I did not expect to reign supreme on the drums.

 

One thing I've noticed, here, is that we're moving towards a broader 'collective' input mode; people throw their parts into the ring, someone gets designated the 'blender button pusher'--also known as 'head chef'--and it rolls from there. Yes, I can play. Yes, I have ideas. Yes, I'd like to produce. BUT...maybe my approach to drums or whatever isn't what the tune needs. So be it.

 

Sometimes, you have to get a pile of what you don't want in order to know what you need.

 

As drummer, I welcome other drum inputs, because I know my limitations. I am cetainly not trying to muscle anyone out. In this case, I happen to think that Kendrick's approach is pretty fresh, and as an old guy, I could use some updating.

 

Thanks for the trax, btw.

[Bunny Knutson]

No worries, Kendrix and Offramp.

 

I may end up tracking some drums, too, as originally planned. And I may end up using Offramp's AND mine, if that's what sounds good in the mix. For example, I have a very solid idea of what the drums should sound like in the verses, but not such a focused idea for the choruses. I'll be curious to hear what kind of feel Offramp gives this tune.

 

So, in the spirit of true collaboration, go for it, Offramp!

[nursers]

Cool stuff More people contributing the better - the key to success IMO is people not getting precious whether their stuff is used in the final mix. I go into every collab expecting nothing to be used

[Gruuve]

Ditto what Dave H. said...sometimes when you just open it up to other folks, you get some cool stuff that you never would have come up with on your own.

 

Dave

[Gruuve]

Hey Ken:

 

So, do you still want me to take a shot at bass lines for this one? If so, let me know and Bunny so we can get a ref track to me...

 

L8r,

Dave

[Kendrix]

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

Hey Ken:

 

So, do you still want me to take a shot at bass lines for this one? If so, let me know and Bunny so we can get a ref track to me...

 

L8r,

Dave

Dave,

 

Sure, go for it.

 

However, I consider Bunny the chief editor/mixer of this version. I'll leave it up to him what he chooses to use in this mix.

 

Id rather have his take on the tune to complement mine- rather than try and manage a mix by committee.

[Gruuve]

Thanks Ken. Bunny, please point me to the ref track once you have it ready. Drum machine or real drums, everything except the original bass line. Let me know if you want me to send you the track for the bass line I already did or not...you might want that to track drums to or not, just lemme know.

 

NOTE: I'll be out of town for a week starting Wed, so if you don't hear from me, don't assume I've abandoned y'all...I probably won't have access to a PC while I'm gone.

 

Dave

[Kendrix]

Im leaving tomorrow for AES and will be off-line for a few days.

Any progress??

Off?, Dave?, Bunny?

[Bunny Knutson]

I've been without my DAW for five days now - shot cpu. Bad timing for computer failure.

 

I hope to be up and running sometime in the next couple days. I had a decent rough mix started before the crash - I hope I don't lose any data.

[Kendrix]

Originally posted by Bunny Knutson:

I've been without my DAW for five days now - shot cpu. Bad timing for computer failure.

 

I hope to be up and running sometime in the next couple days. I had a decent rough mix started before the crash - I hope I don't lose any data.

Bummer. Bad CPU - thats really an unusual failure. Howd you get so lucky? Good luck getting back up.

[Bunny Knutson]

OK, here we are 2+ months later, and the big news is that I've actually been working on this project! Stunning, I know. You probably need proof, and I don't blame you at all. Here's an MP3 of a working mix:

 

Oh Katrina - Working Mix

 

If Dave is still interested in recording a bass track for this song, I can provide a minus-bass reference track. Dave, if you could play Kendrix's bass line with some extra attitude, that might give the mix some extra punch!

 

Also, I'm hearing a backing organ track that I'm hoping Nursers can provide. Nice and punchy-funky in the verses, and sustained chords like the BG vox in the ride-cymbal parts. Lots of Leslie. I'm thinking... The Meters. Nursers, give me a call on my cell if you want me to describe it better.

 

Feedback is welcome on the working mix.

[Gruuve]

Hey Bunny...yes I'm still willing to give the bass line a whirl. I may do a couple or three different parts and send them all to you to choose from. Next week would be an ideal time (I'm off work all but one day), so if you could shoot me a sans bass mix by, say, Monday that would be fantastic.

 

Thanks for reminding me...I had forgotten about this one!

 

Dave

[Bunny Knutson]

Dave, check your PMs.

[Bunny Knutson]

Here's a newer rough mix: Oh Katrina - Rough Mix

 

It's getting closer. I think Dave might be recording some new bass. And I'd still like an organ track from Nursers, if possible, as mentioned above.

[nursers]

I will try to get onto this. I have just got this little beauty:

 

 

http://www.ultimatesoundbank.com/usb/exec/charlie

 

 

[Kendrix]

Ive been away- had almost thought we lost focus on this. It was a pleasant surpise to find this today and to give a listen (at work on really shitty laptop PC speakers).

 

Muchos gracias Bunny.

 

Yup those sound like real drums. Nice.

I particilarly like the resonance /ringing on the snare.

There is just one or two spots where an additional fill might belong.

After the break(s) I think it might be more effective to leave a hanging/open space before the next verse starts rather than have the drum line play through. This occurs along with the words "Rise again".

I think this provides more contrast between the sections and just "feels right" to me.

 

Interesting treatment of the horns ( did you pitch shift the original sax tracks for the double?). I need to hear them on better speakers.

 

Bunny, When a final of this is available I'd love to get a 16 bit version of it on CD. If ya dont mind.

 

What did you mix on/with?

[Bunny Knutson]

Originally posted by Kendrix:

Muchos gracias Bunny.

No problemo.

Originally posted by Kendrix:

There is just one or two spots where an additional fill might belong.

After the break(s) I think it might be more effective to leave a hanging/open space before the next verse starts rather than have the drum line play through. This occurs along with the words "Rise again".

I think this provides more contrast between the sections and just "feels right" to me.

Cool, I'll give that a try with some creative editing.

 

Originally posted by Kendrix:

Interesting treatment of the horns ( did you pitch shift the original sax tracks for the double?). I need to hear them on better speakers.

You betcha - pitch shifted the double. I hope you like it - it really seemed to fit to my ear.

 

 

Originally posted by Kendrix:

Bunny, When a final of this is available I'd love to get a 16 bit version of it on CD. If ya dont mind.

It should be ready by the deadline of January 31st. I'd still like to hear it with a Nursers organ track on there. I'll be happy to send you a CD when it's finished.

 

Originally posted by Kendrix:

What did you mix on/with?

Pro Tools LE 6.4 through my little Mackie HR-624s.

 

I'd really like to hear this song played by a pro session drummer - someone with some real skillz - but I did the best I could with the limited amount of capability and time I had at my disposal.

[Kendrix]

Originally posted by Bunny Knutson:

Originally posted by Kendrix:

[

 

I'd really like to hear this song played by a pro session drummer - someone with some real skillz - but I did the best I could with the limited amount of capability and time I had at my disposal.

It really is is a difficult rythm to make groove on the drums. It was one of the more challenging drum programming jobs I can recall.

 

As often happens... ive listened to the tune numerous times with my programmed drums ( link below) and Ive become used to the tune that way.

 

I need to give these new drum tracks a chance to better settle into my head. They're - different.

 

The snare in the verse reminds me a little of S. Gadd doing "50 ways" with those mini snare rolls filling in.

 

I'd find it interesting to hear my programmed drum "charts" played on a real set by a real player. The only difference being the sound of the real kit and the natural feel of a human.

That would be interesting.

 

Also, I used some cowbell and you didnt.

Gotta have cowbell.

 

I read what you wrote but I can quite "hear" the organ fitting into the arrangement. I cant wait to see where you decide to take that.

 

T pitch shifting effect sounds best to me during the " descending break" as the drums shift to the center ride cymbal.

As used on the horns during he verse there is one pitch shifted note that falls below the original note -is it down a third?? Anyway, that one tone seemed just dissonant and cheesy enough in spots to bug me just a little.

 

However, Bunny you are the mixer/producer.

IM happy to have you consider my input and then do what you will.

 

I must say Im gettng off having other folks work on the tune. Kewl.

[Kendrix]

Steve Gadd lives a few miles from me.

His brother used to cut my hair.

My daugher used to know his son.

Given the nature of this project I wonder......

Would I have the balls to make contact and ask? Proly not....must be TOo much expresso... I'm having delusions.

[Gruuve]

Hey folks:

 

Sorry I still haven't gotten to the bass tracks..."the best laid plans of mice and men". I've been tied up with church music, but I'll do my best to get to this next week. What I've heard sounds great already, but I'd still love to give it a go...if you guys like what I provide, use it...if not, no prob. I love doing these collabs...sometimes it's just difficult to fit it into the schedule.

 

Dave

[Bunny Knutson]

Originally posted by Kendrix:

Steve Gadd lives a few miles from me.

Given a choice between him and me, I think Steve Gadd would be my first choice for a session drummer. Of course, he wasn't available when I called him.

 

Funny thing, but Tom Lorde-Alge wasn't available to mix the tune, either.

 

But, hey, since my rates are so good, I figured I'd just do it myself.

[Gruuve]

Bunny...check yer PM's...I just sent you the link for the bass track.

 

Sorry for the delay folks...really appreciate your patience!

 

Dave

[Bunny Knutson]

OK, I may have missed the deadline by a couple days, but here's the (supposedly) final mix:

 

Oh Katrina

 

BTW, Kendrix, I really like this song; while recording parts for it and mixing it, I've probably listened to it over 100 times, and I still haven't gotten tired of it. That, to me, proves it's a really cool song - nice work!

[Kendrix]

Originally posted by Bunny Knutson:

OK, I may have missed the deadline by a couple days, but here's the (supposedly) final mix:

 

Oh Katrina

 

BTW, Kendrix, I really like this song; while recording parts for it and mixing it, I've probably listened to it over 100 times, and I still haven't gotten tired of it. That, to me, proves it's a really cool song - nice work!

Bunny, do I get a discount on your sevices cause you were a few days late?

 

I really do appreciate the positive feedback. You know - when you put a tune up on any of the sites like garageband or braodjam that allow folks to give feeback typically 40% or so will rip you a new asshole in the process. So, its nice to hear this from someone who knows his shit.

 

Unfortuately, the link didnt respond for me just now. Will try again later.

 

What happens next with the tunes?

[Kendrix]

OK I got the download.

Bunny,

Wow you really did some work on this. I like the B/U choir that adds to the chorus. Some brass on top of the sax in a spot or two made the whole thing seem much "bigger".

 

There is just one spot ( I think it during verse 2) where BU vox comes in to support the words "New Orleans". That seemed a little jarring. I might have made this a little lower in the mix or somehow smoothed it out.

 

Dave is that you on bass? The tone seems right for the arrangement. I see you moved off the quarter notes over triplets approach that you layed down the first time. I like this track much better.

 

The drums also seem to have been tightened up substantially.

 

This is way different/more interesting than my one man band /mix.

Great to have collaborated with you all.

[Gruuve]

Bunny is crankin' em' out! Nice work...I like it.

 

I listened on the laptop, but yes at least some of that is my bass line (I think Bunny may have cut and pasted both of ours...unless memory fails me I did the chorus a little different). That's great...I left it to Bunny's capable hands (and ears) to judge what worked the best.

 

Yeah, it's always amazing to me how different folks can hear the same thing differently. Not that this isn't excellent as is...I just hear it differently. I like Bunny's drumming on this song, and I simply followed Bunny with the bass line. However, I *still* hear a different arrangement of the rhythm section on this one...something actually very straight-forward with a punching pulse to it...I hear this half-time shuffle on the drums with the bass doing a quarter-note pulse against the shifting rhythm of the guitars (that's why that first bass line demo I threw out there was so "jarring"...that bass line simply doesn't work without matching drums behind it).

 

If there's any serious interest, I could track the drums and bass I hear in my head...let me know.

 

But, this arrangement certainly is polished enough that I think you could consider it finished. I really enjoy these collabs...it's certainly interesting and sometimes even educational (to me, anyway) to hear other folks interpretation of something I've spit out!

 

Dave

[Eric VB]

Originally posted by Kendrix:

What happens next with the tunes?

That's being discussed over here . Feel free to add to the fire.

 

Congrats on getting this one finished! Well done!

[Bunny Knutson]

Thanks for the kind words, guys. I'm glad you like it.

 

Yeah, I added lots of background vox, some percussion, and a pitched harmony part on the sax. The bass is a combination of Kendrix's original bass track and Dave's new one. There were parts of each bass line that I liked in the arrangement - the chorus features both simultaneously (!) and the verse is just the original track.

 

Kendrix, I agree about that harsh BG vox part - "New Orleans" - I'll soften that down some more in the mix.

 

I can send wave files (24 or 16 bit) to participants who want them, either via the internet or snail mail. Just let me know.