Neil Peart

[Dwarf]

I gotta add something else to this nonsense.

 

Originally posted by Siberian:

Here's something else to ponder about Neil Peart that you may or may not find interesting. His entire life, he played matched grip... as most modern day rock drummers do. A few years back he felt like he needed a new challenge, as well, by his own admission, he wanted to loosen up a little and try to incorporate more "feel" into his playing. So he want to a drum teacher (I forget his name at the moment) who taught him to play traditional grip, much like the great jazz/swing drummers from back in the day. Now if you have never played traditional grip before, you KNOW how hard it is to get used to it, especially if you have known nothing but matched grip your entire life.

 

Neil basically started from scratch, re-arranged his entire kit, his entire approach to the drum set, and changed his philisophy of playing. He switched to traditional grip and re-learned to play the drums that way. He was eventually able to play with traditional grip with the same intensity, chops, and fluidity of his old matched grip. I find that to be pretty f*cking amazing.

And on Rush In Rio he's back to using matched grip. I guess the experiment is over.

 

 

Originally posted by Siberian:

So with his new-found playing style, he started exploring the great jazz/swing greats like Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, etc. Eventually he produced a Buddy Rich tribute album as I mentioned earlier, and he played on a few tracks. Bad-ass..... baaaaaad-ass.

Once again let me say: You have no phucking clue what you're talking about. His studies with Freddie Gruber and the changes to his grip happened AFTER the Burning For Buddy sessions.

 

--

Rob

[Lee Flier]

Yeah, what Rob said. Dude, I like a good debate as much as anybody and find it really interesting to hear people's thoughts on why they do or don't like a particular artist, but there are so many logical and factual errors in your post that I can't even take it the least bit seriously.

 

We should at least set you straight about John Bonham. First of all, Glyn Johns (who engineered most of Zep's stuff) IS a household name among engineers. The producer was Jimmy Page, so I guess he's a household name too, eh? As for Bonham's drum sound, you're wrong about that anyway. Any engineer who worked with him said Bonham's sound totally came from Bonham. Partly it was in the way he tuned his drums, and partly just the way he played. Everyone who knew him said he could sit down at pretty much any drum kit and still sounded like Bonham.

[Siberian]

[antimatter]

Boy it got hot in here.

I respect all of your replies. But Siberian, let's leave Bono, I mean Bonham out of this.

 

I realized my appreciation for Peart as I stood waiting for my order at the Butcher. I ordered 2 chickens, cut into pieces. The guy grabs 2 birds with one hand, his carving knife, sword with the other. With what looks like 6 cuts, a twirl of his hand, he's got my 16 pieces wrapped up and ready to go. It took like 20 seconds (seemed anyway). The guy is just really really good at what he does. Not only cutting, but he can tell you how to cook anything. No thermometers, ever.

He takes his craft seriously, maximizes his abilities. I appreciate that. I appreciate anyone who does their craft that well. I think Peart has worked very hard at mastering the drums. Year in year out. It shows. Let's just say he's one of the best.

 

I haven't seen Rush in 20 years. I saw them at MSG during the Signals tour. The first 'new Rush' album IMO. I think they are better now. At least on the DVD. More relaxed maybe?

 

WHATEVER!

 

Thank you all for responding.

[Dwarf]

Originally posted by Siberian:

Did Neil do the Burning CD before he studied the traditional grip? If my time line was off I stand corrected. No big deal. But are you SURE he did Burning before switching to traditional?

Yes, 100%. According to Neil on his "A Work In Progress" he credits Steve Smith with turning him on to Freddie Gruber. His studying with Freddie led him to explore traditional grip. You may call Neil a liar if you have better info.

 

Although, he may have studied trad grip a little when he was taking private lessons as a teenager. But that's not what we're discussing.

 

Originally posted by Siberian:

Say what you want about Bonham's sound, I still find it hard to believe that he had some magical bass drum powers. Like a stated in my post... he was a great drummer. I mean no disrespect to him, at all. I was also influenced by him, and I like Zeppelin, so please don't think I'm coming from the wrong place here when I ask this.... What, specifically, can you say about his kick drum that made him so well known for it?

He had great control and great speed with a single pedal at a time when most drummers had trouble even thinking about what Bonzo was playing.

 

Originally posted by Siberian:

As for his engineer, there's a big difference between being a household name to the general public and to a specific group of people.

The general public has no clue who engineered or produced most of their favourite records. You're not dealing with the general public here, your talking to musicians and engineers - we know this shit. Glyn Johns and Eddie Kramer (who did later Zep) are well known. If you don't know them then that's YOUR problem, not ours.

 

Originally posted by Siberian:

Big difference. Again, like the Bono thing... you KNOW what I'm talking about. He may have given credit to JB for the sound, but he still had to CAPTURE that sound and MIX it on the album. For that, I give the engineer credit.

Hmm, you may be a little young to know this but at the time that Zep recorded their first couple of albums they didn't have the technology to polish a turd and make it sound like a bass drum. If the sound wasn't there to start with then it didn't end up on tape.

 

If I take a picture of the Grand Canyon I don't take credit for creating the canyon.

 

Originally posted by Siberian:

I thought Neil did a great job on the Buddy Rich album. Especially considering that isn't his forte'. And again, did I not qualify in the beginning of my post that my opinion is biased? Did you not read that part of my post where I stated that this was my BIASED opinion? Okay, maybe I exaggerated by saying he showed he is up there with the all time great swing drummers. So why are you so upset that I would say that? It's my opinion.. not fact. Take it with a grain of salt.

Upset? I'm not upset. I'm a little confused at your almost completely factless posting. And I also tend to not have a lot of patience with people. But I certainly don't get upset with people for liking Neil.

 

Originally posted by Siberian:

Mmmkaaay? Am I a bad person because my opinion doesn't agree with yours? My favorite color is blue. What is your favorite color? If it's not blue than you are an idiot. (that's kind of what you were saying to me.) Thanks. I appreciate that.

That's not quite accurate. It's closer to you saying "My favourite colour is blue. Look, all my clothes are blue" and then showing me a closet full of black clothing. You're so astonishlingly wrong on so many of your points that there isn't any need for me to call you an idiot

 

Originally posted by Siberian:

And for the record, if you watch the Rio DVD again, you WILL see that Neil used traditional grip on a couple of the songs that he originally wrote with traditional grip. I won't call you an idiot for getting that wrong though. I still respect your opinion and I realize people, including yourself, are human and make mistakes.

I noticed Neil using trad grip a couple of times, mostly when he was doing anything rudimental on the snare. 95% of the time, when we see him, he was playing matched. I've only seen the DVD once though so I might be wrong.

 

Originally posted by Siberian:

Sorry if I upset you because I forgot to verify a few irrellavent, meaningless facts that have little to do with the overall meaning of my post. It still doesn't change my opinion. Can't you respect that without resorting to name calling?

I can respect anybody's opinion, and I respect yours. Saying that you're wrong isn't a sign of disrespect.

 

Oh, and for the record, I never called you names, I told you that you don't have a clue what you're talking about and you're coming off as an idiot. There's a difference. If I wanted to call you an idiot I would have said "I think you're an idiot". You are free to believe me, or not, it's irrelevant to me.

 

Originally posted by Siberian:

If you don't like me for whatever reason, fine. I can live with that. I haven't been a member of this board for very long. All I have done is try to help share some of my experiences with people who have asked questions about drums and equipment. I didn't come here to partake in adolescent flame wars.

 

Peace all.

Well, I don't even know you so I can't say whether I like you or not. And this isn't a flame war, unless disagreeing with you is a flame.

 

One thing you should learn though: There are a lot of really knowledgable people here and if you shoot your mouth off and start spouting facts wrong you will eventually get called on them. Having an opinion is great, but backing it up with nonsense will only cause you grief. Saying "I'm only here to help people" won't get you much slack if all of your posts are as erroneous as your big post here.

 

Best Regards

--

Rob

[Siberian]

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Siberian:

Dwarf, Lee,

 

Sorry if you don't like what I said, and maybe a couple meaningless facts were off... but seriously, you are missing my point overall.

I had a hard time discerning any point, except that you like Neil Peart. Which is fine. The rest of your post didn't make any sense at all. That was big of you to apologize for having made factual errors, but you've also gotta realize that you came into a musicians' forum spouting off a lot of stuff as if it were fact when it isn't. And if you do that people are not likely to take you seriously. I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm just trying to tell you honestly why you got hammered for your post, and maybe you can learn something from that.

 

Dwarf and Lee....

Say what you want about Bonham's sound, I still find it hard to believe that he had some magical bass drum powers. Like a stated in my post... he was a great drummer. I mean no disrespect to him, at all. I was also influenced by him, and I like Zeppelin, so please don't think I'm coming from the wrong place here when I ask this.... What, specifically, can you say about his kick drum that made him so well known for it? And didn't you see that I was also giving him credit as a great groove and "feel" drummer?

Nobody said you meant any disrespect for him, just like nobody said you shouldn't like Neil Peart. It's just that you were totally wrong in your evaluation of what made Bonham sound like he did and we were pointing that out. It doesn't matter how much you like or dislike someone, if something is true it's true and if it's false it's false. Do you see the difference?

 

I think Rob and I have both pointed out things that made Bonham's kick special. He really did play the kick in a way that other drummers were not doing at the time. The heaviness of his foot combined with the speed he was able to achieve on a single bass drum, and his phrasing, were and are different from anyone else. He also tuned his drums differently, and left them completely unmuffled and open at a time when everyone else was tending toward heavily taped, tight, processed drum sounds.

 

In any case, lots of people have tried to duplicate his sound since then and no one has - including the same engineers who recorded him.

 

You both ripped me for asking why his engineer isn't a household name. C'mon.... there's a big difference between being a household name to the general public and to a specific group of people.

Like Rob said, there are NO engineers who are household names to the general public, so that whole point is completely irrelevant. A logical fallacy as it were.

 

He may have given credit to JB for the sound, but he still had to CAPTURE that sound and MIX it on the album. For that, I give the engineer credit.

Rob already addressed this point very well. I'll only add that the way Bonham tuned his drums did not lend itself to close miking - they had too much resonance. Glyn Johns (who usually didn't close mic drums anyway) knew that so he generally just threw up a couple of room mics and that was it. Therefore there was no real mixing to do. All he did was capture what was being played. Bonham mixed himself and the sounds you hear are what he played and how he sounded. Individual processing can only be applied to close miked instruments. When you only use room mics, you're "stuck" with what you've got and you can't do much about it in the mix - which, if what you've got is a brilliant drummer playing a well tuned kit, is a beautiful thing.

 

And besides, this Bonham subject is just a side note to my main post and has nothing to do with my points about Peart, other than to point out that I believe in my heart that sometimes people jump on band wagons of opinions and it gets to the point where people talk about something as if it was irrefutable fact, even if it simply started out as someone's opinion.

I think people often use your argument to defend their own opinions. You like Neil Peart, therefore if somebody doesn't like Neil Peart you think they must be brainwashed somehow and their opinion has been shaped by somebody else and they just jumped on the bandwagon. When the fact is that everyone has opinions and maybe the people who don't like Neil Peart, just don't like him, and they may have their reasons which may or may not be the same as anyone else's reasons. There doesn't even have to be a "reason" why someone likes or doesn't like a musical artist, yet some people feel that their musical tastes are somehow absolute and if someone doesn't like the same music they do, there must be some "reason" for it (they don't appreciate good musicianship, they're jumping on someone else's bandwagon, they just haven't taken the time to "get" it, etc.)

 

I thought Neil did a great job on the Buddy Rich album.

OK, you're entitled to your opinion. I own the record too and I DON'T think he did a good job. I could try to find some "reason" why you like it even though you "shouldn't" like it. I could tell you that you probably haven't listened to many "real" swing drummers and that if you had, you probably would realize that what Neil did sucked, but I'm not going to do that because if you like it, you like it. That's all that matters.

 

Am I a bad person because my opinion doesn't agree with yours? My favorite color is blue. What is your favorite color? If it's not blue than you are an idiot. (that's kind of what you were saying to me.) Thanks. I appreciate that.

No, nobody said you were a bad person because our opinions don't agree. In fact, that seemed to be what YOU were saying in your first post - you implied that if you don't like Neil it must be because you're some pop teenybopper who likes the Backstreet Boys and can't appreciate a real band or real musicianship. Do you see where some folks on a musicians' forum might take offense at that?

 

The comment that you came off like an idiot has nothing to do with your opinion, it's because along with your opinion you stated a bunch of incorrect facts (which we've already covered and you apologized for, so that's cool) and irrelevant/non-logical points, like whether or not Bonham's engineer is a household name, whether or not people know the names of the guys in the band, the fact that Rush is still the same 3 guys and there's no "old Rush" and "new Rush" ( )... I could go on. All those things are "true" but they are logical fallacies because they have nothing to do with what was being said.

 

I made my post with the utmost respect to all those here.

Sorry but it didn't come off that way. You sounded very pompous and sarcastic in your post (which is funny because you then pick on other people for responding in the same way) and like I said, you seemed to make a lot of presumptions that the people here must not know what they're talking about if they don't like Neil, or they must be fans of "media bands" and all this other nonsense. There was nothing at all respectful in your post. Maybe you should read it again and try to understand how it came off, it might help you to be able to have more meaningful and enjoyable discussions in the future.

 

Lee, you specifically mentioned that my post is so full of holes...etc etc. Where?

I hope I've pointed out a few of them. If you'd like me to explain further, I will.

 

In a nutshell, I merely said that there is no greatest drummer, that it's simply a subjective opinion and a matter of one's own taste, and that Neil is, in my opinion, a great drummer TO ME, and that I think people wrongfully accuse Neil of overplaying. Is that so wrong to say?

Of course not. If that's all you'd said, nobody would have picked on you. But it isn't all you said, and that isn't the way you said it, either.

 

Sorry again if I offended anyone. I just wanted to get it off my chest because I was bothered by some things I read.

Well, maybe you need to take a little of your own advice. What you read is just people's personal opinions - nobody has been flaming or disrespectful or trying to say that their opinion is "fact." So there's no need to get so upset over it. I appreciate that you're passionate and emotional about the music you like, as are most of us here. But if somebody doesn't like the same music you do, it's not a personal affront to you or even to the band that you like. Neil isn't going to lose any sleep because a few people on a forum don't like him - I'd say his place in drummer history is quite secure.

 

What I said was genuine and from the heart. At least please respect that I have the balls to say what I believe in, and stand behind it even when under fire, as I am now. That's all I ask. And know this... I am man enough to stand up and admit I made a mistake, as I have here.

I do respect that. A lot. So please try to understand that nobody's picking on you for your opinion or for standing up for it. Here's what the real problem is in a nutshell: you tried to "back up" an opinion with "facts," which never works to begin with anyway. But then it was made worse by the fact that some of your "facts" were just plain wrong, and most of the rest weren't relevant at all to your opinion and therefore made no sense. Some could also have been interpreted as disrespectful, such as your implication that people who don't like Neil must be 14 year old girls who only like boy bands, or that anybody who doesn't like Neil probably doesn't appreciate a real band who can really play, or that anybody who doesn't like Neil is probably just saying that because they're jumping on some bandwagon, some invisible cult that says "Neil Peart overplays" and it isn't their real opinion. I hope you will re-think those ideas - there are a lot of very experienced musicians here who have in fact thought our opinions through very carefully, and your post therefore came off as very disrespectful.

 

I hope that clarifies things.

[Tedly Nightshade]

I'm being contentious today, Lee- can you tell? How did you know?

 

One of the classic Bonham tracks is heavily manipulated- as an entire drum sound in room, all at once, as you said, not one drum at a time, like practically anybody else's heavily manipulated drum sound. And yes his approach was very different and wholly realized- what's that? How often do we get one of those...

 

And you KNOW it sounded way cooler in the grange hall there than on the tape- to have been at the top of that stairwell- oh god, I'm weak...

 

But it was compressed a lot, and slowed down, at least. As a whole kit in the room sound. Probably, that was necessary to try to get a hint of the raw majesty of Bonham in person!

 

Now the way Bonzo plays on Good Times Bad Times is truly remarkable- he's doing all this tricky technical foot stuff, that undoubtedly Peart studied very closely too, like so many, but so right with the mood of the song, such a nimble but brutal touche to the MAJOR attitudes put out by the rest of the band- oh god, I'm weak...

[Lee Flier]

LOL... yes, a few of Bonham's tracks were manipulated as a whole. The original point was about his kick drum specifically though, and implied that its sound was achieved through studio magic and not Bonham himself, which of course, ain't so.

 

I'm with you on "getting weak" to think about hearing Bonham live when he was recording that stuff though...

[DanS]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Watching Peart to me is pretty much like watching somebody jerk off (I feel the same way about a lot of "shredder" type guitar players like Al DiMeola, [/QB]

I guess you haven't heard anything he's done in the last 15 years or so, like his World Sinfonia stuff, or his last 4 - 5 electric albums?

I guess you don't like De Lucia or McLaughlin either?

[Bella Wood Silver Star]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Sure, there are other people who have the technical prowess of Peart, they just might not let you know it all the time. Buddy Rich certainly did and I'll listen to him any day. I'm nuts about the drummer in my band and he can execute pretty much anything you'd care to throw at him - including any Rush tune if you really twisted his arm - but you wouldn't necessarily know it to hear him play the way he likes to play. I suspect there are a lot of other drummers like that around, I've run into a few.

If you think your drummer can play like Neil Peart, then you must be the worst judge of musical talent of all time (let me guess you're the singer?)

[Dwarf]

Originally posted by Bella Wood Silver Star:

If you think your drummer can play like Neil Peart, then you must be the worst judge of musical talent of all time (let me guess you're the singer?)

You are so out of line. May I suggest that you lurk a while and get to know the people here before you have another brain fart like this one. Lee knows more about drummers than most drummers, and more about music than almost everybody.

 

For a first post you smell an awful lot like a troll.

 

--

Rob

[Jode]

Touchy, touchy, touchy. Some of y'all act like this thread is about your mama or something. Settle down, boys.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by DanS:

I guess you haven't heard anything he's [DiMeola] done in the last 15 years or so, like his World Sinfonia stuff, or his last 4 - 5 electric albums?

Actually I HAVE heard some of that and agree that it's cool, much better than what I'm used to hearing.

 

I guess you don't like De Lucia or McLaughlin either?

Not much, but then again I'm a little weird that way... I'm a guitar player and I love jazz but I'm not much for jazz guitar. I don't mean at all that I don't think those guys are talented! It's just not my cuppa tea, that's all. When I hear jazz I wanna hear horns, piano and a killer rhythm section. But that's just me, and I'm the first to admit I'm a little fussy in my tastes.

[Tedly Nightshade]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Originally posted by DanS:

I guess you haven't heard anything he's [DiMeola] done in the last 15 years or so, like his World Sinfonia stuff, or his last 4 - 5 electric albums?

Actually I HAVE heard some of that and agree that it's cool, much better than what I'm used to hearing.

 

I guess you don't like De Lucia or McLaughlin either?

Not much, but then again I'm a little weird that way... I'm a guitar player and I love jazz but I'm not much for jazz guitar. I don't mean at all that I don't think those guys are talented! It's just not my cuppa tea, that's all. When I hear jazz I wanna hear horns, piano and a killer rhythm section. But that's just me, and I'm the first to admit I'm a little fussy in my tastes.

you GOTTA hear the Miles Davis album Jack Johnson, named after the infamous boxer. Mc Laughlin plays so very, very well, you would never know it was him!

 

Fantastic groovy, funky stuff. A GREAT album.

[Bella Wood Silver Star]

Originally posted by Dwarf:

Originally posted by Bella Wood Silver Star:

If you think your drummer can play like Neil Peart, then you must be the worst judge of musical talent of all time (let me guess you're the singer?)

You are so out of line. May I suggest that you lurk a while and get to know the people here before you have another brain fart like this one. Lee knows more about drummers than most drummers, and more about music than almost everybody.

 

For a first post you smell an awful lot like a troll.

 

--

Rob

[Bella Wood Silver Star]

[/qb]

You are so out of line. May I suggest that you lurk a while and get to know the people here before you have another brain fart like this one. Lee knows more about drummers than most drummers, and more about music than almost everybody.

 

For a first post you smell an awful lot like a troll.

 

I can understand your point of view. And I also realize that everyone has their own opinion. However the only way his statement about Neil Pearts abilities being not all that will fly is if he is not a fan of Rush and as such has never really given Neil his due. There is no other logical anwser. And I do apoligize for the troll-like tone.

[Dwarf]

Originally posted by Bella Wood Silver Star:

I can understand your point of view. And I also realize that everyone has their own opinion. However the only way his statement about Neil Pearts abilities being not all that will fly is if he is not a fan of Rush and as such has never really given Neil his due. There is no other logical anwser. And I do apoligize for the troll-like tone.

Well, I can't speak for Lee concerning how much Rush she's heard, I'll leave that to her. But, from what I do know about her I'd say that if she says that her drummer can play like Neil I'd believe her.

 

Why does it seem so hard to accept that other drummers can play like Neil? We've had almost 30 years of him on record - surely that's long enough for people to figure out what he does? I've been listening to him since 1978 and nothing he does at this point surprises me. This doesn't make him any less a drummer to me, it just makes his playing ... comfortable.

 

What I find really interesting about this thread is that there are still people so fanatically faithful to Neil that any slight criticism, or even a hint that maybe they prefer another style of drummer, brings forth a rabid defence of The Professor and all he's done.

 

As Spock would say: Fascinating.

 

--

Rob

[Lee Flier]

Errrhh, Bella, first of all I never dissed Neil's abilities. There's no doubt the guy's got chops for days. I simply don't like Rush's music or Neil's style of playing. And yes, I've heard a lot of it, more than I ever cared to... from about age 15 on it seemed like there was always some Rush fanatic or other in my life begging me to listen to their records, absolutely certain they could convince me to like them if I would only listen some more. Truth is I find it very hard to listen to at all, it has that deep and immediate of a negative effect on me.

 

Second of all, sorry, but our drummer CAN play like Neil. He has the chops, and 20 years ago he used to enjoy playing along with Rush records as an exercise, but he doesn't like that style of playing either. Just because somebody CAN play like Neil doesn't mean they DO, or want to. I'm sure you must find that hard to believe.

 

Our drummer grew up on traditional jazz, the Beatles, the Who and Zeppelin, and that's what he likes. So he enjoys playing with a much looser feel and using his chops in more subtle ways, unless the song really calls for him to go nuts - which does happen, but he goes nuts in more of a Keith Moon or Bonham way than a Neil Peart way. That's what he likes, and that's what fits our band. Regardless, he still gets a lot of drummers watching him with their jaws on the floor at our shows.

 

P.S. And no, I am not the singer.

[Rod Gervais]

Lee,

 

I remember getting tickets to catch Gato Barberi - and Chuck Lobe was opening for him - and although I have always been like you regarding jazz (warm horns - keyboard - standup bass working well with a killer drummer) - i really have to tell you - when it was all said and done - i thought Gato should have opened for Chuck.

 

By the way Bella - Lee is one sharp ticket - you could probably learn a lot if you kept quiet and paid attention.

 

Attacking Lee isn't going to get you anything other than maybe embarrased.

 

Rod

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:

you GOTTA hear the Miles Davis album Jack Johnson, named after the infamous boxer. Mc Laughlin plays so very, very well, you would never know it was him!

Ohhh crap, you're right. I do have that album, it IS fantastic, and I DID forget it was him!

[Bella Wood Silver Star]

I'll shut up and go back to listening to my 8 minute Neil Peart solos BTW very informed(mostly) bunch of people you have on this board. Happy playing! Bella Wood

[Chip Curtis]

Some people just don't get it. That's OK. Some music is for musicians. That's OK too. With age, comes wisdom. If you practice something difficult, after a while it isn't difficult anymore. Actually, you might have to re-invent yourself to conquer the sheer boredom of the norm. Others may think you're showing off. I don't know for sure but I get the impression that Neil would just assume get on his bike and never play for you again. We are lucky to have had this guy walk the earth! We mock what we don't understand. Eienstien said "Great spirits often encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds." Rythm is an art that can be interpreted many different ways. Neil is the giants shoulders you should be standing on instead of belittling. There are many, many good drummers. Neil is in a class of very few. I suppose Leonardo sucks compared to those finger paintings on your fridge.

[Siberian]

I'll restate my original post, this time in a more direct and simple manner so that the geniuses who grossly misunderstood me the first time will understand...

 

There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with not liking Neil Peart, or Rush. I have no problem with that.... never did. I don't really care what people think of Neil, or Rush. If Rush is not your thing, that's cool. I respect that.

 

What I find to be laughable is when people criticize Neil specifically for overplaying. That doesn't seem to make any sense. Rush is a progressive band. The POINT is to overplay. If he was the drummer for Backstreet Boys and played like that, then yes, go ahead and rip him all you want for overplaying... and rightfully so. As that type of music doesn't call for flashy drum parts. However, as far as Rush is concerned, his playing fits the music. Criticize him for other things if you must... but overplaying?

 

(Aplogies in advance to the self-appointed braintrust for any spelling or irrelevant factual errors that might be in my post.)

 

Siberian

President of the John Bonham Happy Foot Society.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Siberian:

I'll restate my original post (abbreviated) for the geniuses in the braintrust who seem to have grossly misunderstood my original point....

Wow... so you really don't think you bear any of the responsibility for being so "grossly misunderstood?"

 

And there's no need to label anybody as a "self appointed braintrust" simply for having known a few things that you didn't and corrected you on it. Sheesh.

 

There's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with not liking Neil Peart, or Rush. I have no problem with that.... never did. Contrary to what the braintrust might think, I don't really care what people think of Neil, or Rush. If Rush is not your thing, that's cool. I respect that.

Like I said earlier, I did not get that impression.

 

What I find to be laughable is when people criticize Neil specifically for overplaying. That doesn't seem to make any sense. Rush is a progressive band. The POINT is to overplay.

Exactly. I acknowledged very early in this thread that what Neil plays is exactly right for Rush. But since I don't like Rush's music, that doesn't impress me, and part of the reason I don't like Rush's music is because I feel it's too focused on the techical side of playing for my taste, without paying enough attention to other things. I have no problem with technically great players so long as they also don't lose sight of other elements of music that are more important to me, and I don't hear those things coming from Rush, so I don't like to listen to them.

 

So I've never said Neil is "overplaying" for Rush - he isn't. He's overplaying to MY ears and my taste, that's all. There are a few other drummers who are very "busy" that I really like, but they're "busy" in a different way than he is.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Chip Curtis:

Some people just don't get it. That's OK. Some music is for musicians. That's OK too. With age, comes wisdom.

Wow. This thread just gets more and more hilarious.

 

Dude, I'm 40 years old. Been playing music since I was 3. I "get it," I just don't like Rush and there are lots of other drummers I vastly prefer to Neil Peart.

 

If you practice something difficult, after a while it isn't difficult anymore. Actually, you might have to re-invent yourself to conquer the sheer boredom of the norm.

YOU might, but but not everyone does. There are lots of other paths of music to explore besides the sheerly technical, and I find that they're endlessly fascinating. I don't get bored with the music that really moves me no matter how many times I play it or hear it or how well it may appear that I've "mastered" it, because each time the experience is different. If you get bored and have to constantly find some new technical challenge in order to stay interested in music, maybe you're the one who doesn't "get it."

 

We are lucky to have had this guy walk the earth! We mock what we don't understand. Eienstien said "Great spirits often encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds." Rythm is an art that can be interpreted many different ways. Neil is the giants shoulders you should be standing on instead of belittling.

LOL... now this is really over the top. I'm sorry you have so much trouble accepting that some people just don't like Neil Peart's playing, that you have to accuse us of being "mediocre minds." Look, the guy has a lot of ability but that doesn't make him God, and it doesn't make anyone who doesn't like him an infidel who must be saved from themselves.

 

I suppose Leonardo sucks compared to those finger paintings on your fridge.

Nope. Never said that or anything remotely resembling it. I just said I don't like Neil. Mm-kay? You guys are cracking me up here... like Jode said, you'd this thread was about your mama or something!

[bleen]

Hi Lee!

 

I love Rush. I grew up on Neil's playing. I don't like the Stones (doesn't move me). I respect Charlie Watt's playing.

 

Lee and I can be friends and talk about so many other things than why she doesn't like Rush or why I don't like the Stones (if fact, we've never had that conversation because it doesn't matter...).

 

[Siberian]

Lee, I never said that you specifically thought that Neil was overplaying. In fact, at no point did I ever single out anyone for saying that. It's just something I have heard mentioned from time to time, whether it be here on the board or in conversations with other people. That's all.

 

For the record, I DO bear the responsibility for the mistakes in my original post. And I sincerely appreciate that you guys corrected me. However the overall meaning of my post got COMPLETELY overlooked by those who couldn't look past the spelling errors and the minor factual errors, which, I will say for the umpteenth time... had little to do with the overall intent of my post.

 

In fact, I think went out of my way to acknowledge the corrections, and PROFUSELY apologized for it, OVER and OVER again.... but STILL the conversation kept going back to the errors, as if you guys couldn't get past it. I can partially understand why you might have thought I was full of sh*t. That's why I put forth my best and most sincere efforts to acknowledge that, yes, I was wrong on those specific items, and then tried, to no avail, to move the conversation back to the main topic of the thread, and it was like talking to a wall. You guys acted as if everything I said in the ENTIRE post had no legitimacy at all, simply because of a couple of a couple of factual mistakes.

 

Nobody, including myself, likes to be belittled by people they don't even know, and for seemingly unjust reasons. I may put my foot in my mouth sometimes. That's just me. I'm not afraid to speak my mind, and I say what I feel and it is always sincere. But when I am barraged by this "holier than thou" type of attitude, it rubs me the wrong way. There's a right and wrong way to correct somebody when they make a mistake. I feel, to some extent, that maybe there could have been a better way for you guys to address the mistakes. It didn't need to go that way.

 

If you disagree with me, that's fine. We'll agree to disagree. Whatever, it's in the past now and it really doesn't matter any more. I don't want to fight with anyone here. I'd much rather have a debate with mutual respect.

 

Yours Sincerely,

Siberian

President of the John Bohnam Happy Foot Society, and captain of the spelling bee team.

 

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Siberian:

Lee, I never said that you specifically thought that Neil was overplaying. In fact, at no point did I ever single out anyone for saying that. It's just something I have heard mentioned from time to time, whether it be here on the board or in conversations with other people. That's all.

Sigh... Siberian, what are we gonna do with you? First you said you posted your "rant" because you were bothered by some of the things you read. Now you say your "whole point" of your post was to defend Neil against something that no one in this thread even specifically said. Can you see why this might be confusing?

 

In fact, I think went out of my way to acknowledge the corrections, and PROFUSELY apologized for it, but STILL the conversation kept going back to the errors, as if you guys couldn't get past it. I put forth my best and most sincere efforts to acknowledge that, yes, I was wrong on those specific items, and then tried, to no avail, to move conversation back to the main topic of the thread, and it was like talking to a wall. You guys acted as if everything I said in the ENTIRE post had no legitimacy at all, simply because of a couple of a couple of factual mistakes.

Actually if you go back and read my responses again you'll see that isn't true at all. I accepted your apology for the factual mistakes, and said it was very big of you to have apologized. But I also said that the factual mistakes weren't the only thing about your posts that I couldn't take seriously, and tried to clarify what the other things were when you asked. I then directly addressed the point you said you were really trying to make, thus getting back to "the subject." Yet you're still harping on the "factual errors" thing and have now resorted to calling some of us the "braintrust." I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

 

But when I am barraged by this "holier than thou" type of attitude, it rubs me the wrong way. There's a right and wrong way to correct somebody when they make a mistake.

I'm sure we would have been kinder about it if your original post had been more respectful and less sarcastic and, dare I say it, "holier than thou." I'm afraid you made your own bed here. But you will find most folks here very quick to forgive and forget stuff like that, so long as you can do that yourself.

[Lee Flier]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bleen:

Hi Lee!

 

I love Rush. I grew up on Neil's playing. I don't like the Stones (doesn't move me). I respect Charlie Watt's playing.

 

Lee and I can be friends and talk about so many other things than why she doesn't like Rush or why I don't like the Stones (if fact, we've never had that conversation because it doesn't matter...).