Setting an amp flat

[josh a]

Yoohoo, well I want to set my amp eq flat.

I have the bass and treble at zero, but its like a weird parametric eq (freq knob and level knob) how do I set that flat? And what do i do about enhance and presence, whatever they are? zero or five?

Thanking you.

also, check this gem of a quote of jeremy i found "If it works, than that means that it works."

what a blast

P.S. How do I set my bass flat? It's a P bass, do i put the tone knob in the middle, or all the way clockwise , or all the way anticlockwise, and do I put the volume all the way up? Thank you

[PhilMan99]

For amps, "it depends" (on the amp).

 

For a passive bass, "flat" is everything at full (10).

[getz out]

What amp?

[josh a]

Laney R2, here's a pic of the controls http://www.guitarshop.net/laney/r2.jpg

[lug]

I tried setting my amp flat like everybody recommends. It was OK until it rained, then the speakers filled up with water and sounded like shite. Last time I get any advice here.

[josh a]

Hahahahaa, my amps dying i think, its crackling randomly at random times, but who cares, a new one is on the way. woohoo

[jeremy c]

To set a P-bass flat: turn both pots all the way up.

 

Your particular Laney amp:

Gain: somewhere between 3 and 5

Enhance: 0

Bass: 0

Frequency: doesn't matter what it is because the level controls the depth

Level: 0

Treble: 0

Presence: 0

Limiter: off

Volume: whatever you want

 

Note that on some dials 0 is in the middle and others 0 is on the left.

[Big Daddy from Motown]

And than if You don't like how it sounds turn the knobs untill it sounds good.

 

There is nothing good or bad about flat, it's about tone not flat.

[rumpelstiltskin.]

also note that in some amps with 0 on the left and 10 on the right, that flat can also be 10 sometimes, or it could be 2 or 3 sometimes.

 

good luck!

 

in your case, jeremy's recommended setting are flat.

 

robb.

[josh a]

cheers, can someone explain to me what the tone knob on the bass actually does?

and also, when does the horn actually toot, because im assuming it doesnt for the low notes.

if i want to get the most natural sound, should this be on or off?

if i want to get the most punchy sound should this be on or off?

thanks a lot for the advice guys.

[josh a]

Thanks a lot for the help.

Big Daddy - I hear people on here talking about stuff set to flat, so I just wanted to hear what it sounds like for myself.

Can someone tell me what the tone knob on my bass actually does?

Also, when does the horn actually toot, because I'm assuming it doesn't on the low notes?

Thanks for the help.

[alexclaber]

The tone knob is a passive variable low pass filter. Or to put it simply, as you turn it down it takes away the treble. You can change its affect by swapping the capacitor (soldered to the pot) for a different value.

 

Any high frequencies coming out of your amp should come out of the horn - rattles, string noise and hiss but also the sound of finger on string, the pick attack, the slap or pop of a string bouncing off the frets. Even your lowest notes will produce high frequencies, just not as much as the higher notes will.

 

Tweeters (e.g. horn tweeters) vary hugely in their quality. Some sound so nasty they're best left off. Some add a wicked brightness to your tone. Some sound so integrated and subtle that you don't know they're there until you start slapping and then you get that extra glow.

 

Alex

[josh a]

So, a horn will make it sound more intricate? I can't really notice mine. I was going to ask if it would make it more punchy, and I'm guessing a good one would? You're all really helpful.

I'm liking the flat tone, its au naturel.

Also, as this is not worth a new thread, a made in mexico (MIM) fender is the standard range yeah? Cuz they say made in mexico on the head, but I thought there may be another line like that? Thanks.

And the tone knob takes away treble, rather than adding bass, or would that then count as active?

[Eric VB]

Originally posted by josh a:

And the tone knob takes away treble, rather than adding bass, or would that then count as active?

The way you're approaching it, yes, a control that boosts a signal would have to be active.

 

To try to expand on Alex' description, a tone knob is just a potentiometer, or a variable resistor. That means it can have any resistance from zero to the value stamped on it depending on the position of the knob. According to robb., a typical potentiometer -- or pot -- used in basses has a maximum resistance value of 250,000 ohms, or 250k ohms.

 

When used with inductors (L) and/or capacitors ©, resistors ® can form what are called LRC circuits that can effect alternating current (AC) signals. Your pickups produce an AC signal from the string vibrations made when you play your bass.

 

Most basses just use a pot and a capacitor to form an RC circuit that is typically labeled "tone control". As Alex said, this circuit produces a "variable low pass filter".

 

A filter basically removes some things and allows others to pass, just like a coffee filter lets liquids pass but retains the solid coffee grounds.

 

As the name suggests, a low pass filter allows low frequencies to pass, basically unchanged. Alternatively, high frequencies are blocked (or at least greatly reduced in magnitude).

 

It's a variable filter because the pot controls the frequency at which the filter begins to act. That is, above what frequency the signal is cut.

 

With a little research and some math, you can calculate these cutoff frequencies for your tone knob. You just need to know the values of the cap (capacitor) and pot. With a little effort you could even calibrate your tone knob to frequencies instead of the more ambiguous "tone" settings, typically ranging from 0 to 10.

 

How do the frequencies relate to pitches, though? You can look this up, too. An open E string on a bass is about 41 Hz (assuming standard A440 tuning).

 

In the end, though, what really matters is how it sounds. Knowing that you want to set your variable low pass filter to something like 500 Hz, for example, doesn't help if you're always dealing with a tone knob that goes from 0 to 10, where 7 on one bass is not the same as 7 on another.

[josh a]

Wow, I learning a lot there, thanks.

How come its not called a variable high stop filter or something? Or is that just not the way it's done?

[Eric VB]

Just the way it's done.

 

Similar nomenclature is used in optics. In that case a long pass filter allows light with wavelengths above a certain cutoff to pass through, a short pass filter allows light below the cutoff, and a band pass filter allows light of a certain range of wavelengths to pass through.

 

At least it makes more sense to characterize optical filters by the kind of light they pass. Loosely speaking, a "yellow" filter would allow "yellow" light to pass through. This is easier to state than listing all the light that is not allowed to pass (i.e. stopped or blocked).

[alexclaber]

Great info RBG, apart from this:

 

Originally posted by RicBassGuy:

How do the frequencies relate to pitches, though? You can look this up, too. An open E string on a bass is about 41 Hz (assuming standard A440 tuning).

The fundamental is such a small fraction of the sound of the note that trying to relate EQ to fundamental frequencies is very misleading. Better to seek out mastering guides which relate EQ frequencies to specific sounds you'd hear in a typical mix.

 

Alex

[jmrunning3]

This has been an education. I had always assumed setting them "flat" meant at zero, or right in the middle.

[Rocky McDougall]

Can we assume that if the instrument controls, ie: volume and tone controls are all set at max. (Fully clockwise) and the amp eq's all set at zero, then the sound that we have is the unaltered sound of those pickups. There will be no noticeable change in the sound as if there were no contols on the instrument or the amp.

commments ?

Rocky

[Big Daddy from Motown]

Rocky that works but only if the bass is passive, ie: no batteries.

 

Some may like that sound, but it's not the sound I hear in my head when I think of great tone.

 

OK, since I've brought it up who has great tone?

[jeremy c]

More flatness confusion just to mess you up.

 

Fender-style amp controls...based on the famous Fender Showman, Fender Bassman, Fender Twin, etc. are not flat in the middle. Someone else will have to tell you where they are flat (or you could look it up yourself). Amps using this kind of circuit include Boogie and Alembic Preamps to the best of my knowledge.

 

With an active bass that has cut and boost controls there generally is a center detent or click in the middle of the pot. That is flat. If the active bass is boost only, than all the way off is flat.

 

Who has great tone is one of those questions where everyone will give you a different answer.

 

I could make a big list of people whose tone I like....and they all sound different from each other (and from me). And then of course there is live tone and studio tone which is not necessarily the same sound.

[Rocky McDougall]

I try to change up my tone according the the individual song I'm playing. Jazz will be smooth low tones off of the P Bass pup with trebble cut off and some Blues will be more of a raspy tone off of the Bridge/Jazz pup with more trebble added. I like the extreme range I can get on that set up. I rarely change my amp EQ during a set.

Rocky

[RHINO_ROB]

Originally posted by jeremy c:

More flatness confusion just to mess you up.

 

Fender-style amp controls...based on the famous Fender Showman, Fender Bassman, Fender Twin, etc. are not flat in the middle. Someone else will have to tell you where they are flat (or you could look it up yourself). Amps using this kind of circuit include Boogie and Alembic Preamps to the best of my knowledge.

 

Flat is bass=2, mid=10, high=2

 

Best tone. Dug pinnick of king's x. Best tone ever. IMO

[Davo-London]

I owned a Bassman 135 when I was in my teens, I was never really happy with the tone. Reading Rhino's post above - this finally makes sense.

 

Live and learn ...

 

Davo

[TimR]

Ric, The tone control on a guitar or bass is slightly different than a simple RC filter in as much as the variable resistor is in series to the capacitor to ground, it therefore limits the amount of fequency cut, not the actual frequency being cut.

 

The frequency is set as Alex says by the capacitor, only it is more complex because the pickups also have capacitance and resistance and pickups have different resonant frequencies. So a capacitor that cuts a certain frequency with one set of pickups will affect a different set slightly differently, but probably not that much to worry about.

 

Setting the tone control all the way up, does not stop all of the frequency cut. As the resitance is 250K, less will be cut still with a 500K. None will be cut at all if you have the type of control that tuns off, ie goes to infinate resistance, effectively taking the capacitor out of the circuit.

[Michele C.]

The parametric eq is goung to be your most powerful tool for exploration when you want to try something else.

I have a parametric on my guitar amplifier and I can go from Fender to Gibson tweaking in the 500Hz zone.

You can learn it this way: set level over the middle, move the frequency while you play and hear what happens. This is a boost.

Set the level below zero and move the frequency to hear the effect of a cut.

200Hz is going to add (or remove) body, 2 KHz is going to add bite.

[Eric VB]

Alex (a.k.a. Mr. Newlywed) and TimR, thanks for setting me straight! Obviously I didn't really research what I was talking about before I started talking about it. I was just going on my limited basic electronics knowledge and my interpretation of Alex' description. That'll teach me!

 

My intent was to try to de-mystify some of the electronics. I think at least this goal was met.

 

No ducks nor lugs were harmed in the writing of this post.

[rumpelstiltskin.]

Originally posted by TimR:

Ric, The tone control on a guitar or bass is slightly different than a simple RC filter in as much as the variable resistor is in series to the capacitor to ground, it therefore limits the amount of fequency cut, not the actual frequency being cut.

it's true that the capacitor value is fixed, but resistance value is variable (hence the purpose of a pot), so the corner (or cutoff) frequency is also variable. the amount of cut is actually fixed at 6dB per octave by the first degree nature of the circuit. 6dB per octave means that for every octave above the corner frequency, you will have 6dB more attenuation.

 

the reason it sounds like you're providing more cut is that you are, at higher frequencies -- as you roll back the tone pot, the corner frequency decreases. as the corner frequency decreases, the higher frequencies get further attenuated.

 

for example, imagine that your tone knob is rolled all the way back, and you have a corner frequency of 2kHz. the signal will be attenuated by 6dB at 4kHz. it will be attenuated another 6dB at the next octave. so it will be at -12dB at 8kHz. and it will be -18dB -- another 6dB of attenuation -- at 16kHz. suppose you start to open up your tone a little, and increase the corner frequency to 4kHz. now the attenuation at 8kHz will be 6dB, instead of 12dB. and you'll be at -12dB at 16kHz instead of -18dB.

 

make sense?

 

robb.

[jeremy c]

You completely lost me, Robb.

 

I have a related question coming from someone who has changed capacitor values. (I just tried different ones until I heard what I liked).

 

It is my understanding that the Gibson Varitone (like on an ES-345) is a switch that chooses between a variety of capacitors. It seems like a great idea to me and I wonder why this one model guitar seems to be the only instrument that uses this simple idea to get a variety of sounds.

[The Geoff]

Originally posted by jeremy c:

You completely lost me, Robb.

 

I have a related question coming from someone who has changed capacitor values. (I just tried different ones until I heard what I liked).

 

It is my understanding that the Gibson Varitone (like on an ES-345) is a switch that chooses between a variety of capacitors. It seems like a great idea to me and I wonder why this one model guitar seems to be the only instrument that uses this simple idea to get a variety of sounds.

http://www.has-sound.com/

 

G.