What led to the 'demise' of Black US bands?

[way2fat]

Is the Robert Randolph Family Band a trio fronted by a pedal steel? If so, they are most definetly the shit.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Gosh, why are some of you so sensitive? When I said Black US bands, I gave examples. Sly Stone for example, were a mixed band, but they were in the bands I listed.

 

I think Jeremy and a few others got my point. I wouldn't mind the Average White band, Level 42 etc.. on my TV. I was talking about the big funk supergroups as I highlighted.

Those who are turning the thread into a race ting, get a grip!!

[_Sweet Willie_]

TSBR,

 

The thread title is "What led to the 'demise' of Black US bands". Of course the discussion is going to be about race -- or at least partially so.

 

Did you mean "What led to the 'demise' of funk and R&B super groups in the US?"? This would have bagged you a slightly different angle on the conversation.

 

Your opening post compares 'black' bands to 'white' bands, but maybe you were more interested in musical genre (funk/R&B vs. rock/metal/alternative).

 

Then you ask specifically if hip-hop destroyed black musicians -- not if hip-hop destroyed ol' skool funk and R&B.

 

So, given the thread title and the content of your first post it is no surprise to me that some of the responses here focus on race.

 

Peace.

--SW

[tnb]

Jeremy said:

On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of extremely well-qualified Black jazz musicians. Young, formerly young, middle-aged, or old.

No sh*t. Were all playing in rock bands, blues bands and theater gigs. Which leads to another thread I should start.

 

*Jeremy, call me when you get up*

[Thomas Wilburn]

TSBR, I think it is great that you are so interested in starting many threads of a distinct nature here in the LDLD, but some of these might be better placed in the Political forum. Just a note.

[getz out]

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

Gosh, why are some of you so sensitive? When I said Black US bands, I gave examples. Sly Stone for example, were a mixed band, but they were in the bands I listed.

Willie said it nicely. Well done. I have concerns about the message getting through, though.

 

Now it's my turn.

 

I'm not Columbo but I think I can figure out why people reacted the way they did. READ YOUR FREAKING TITLE AND OPENING COMMENTS. You have little justification to get into a little tizzy and portray an "angry" emoticon and tell us we didn't get the point. Your inability to communicate your point, compounded by the fact that your follow-ups are inconsitent with your original thread, are the issue.

 

To answer your question, I'll let you in a secret that I'll have to assume the rest of the world has kept from you; music styles come and go from mass popularity. I know, it's shocking. Remember disco? Yup, that's gone. Polka? Yeah, that does really hit the charts these days. Big band jazz?

 

I'll reiterate; why do we need to label music with skin-color?

[way2fat]

Actually, the mention of black bands reminded me of War. Was B.B.Dickerson was or was he wasn't laying down some bodacious low booty? If any one can direct me to The Cisco Kid that will be my next attempt to learn by ear. So far I can't find anything but Low Rider.

 

Maybe some of TSBR's posts should be on the political forum, but who cares what they think? Also note that it can be difficult to communicate in print without the benefit of body language. Remember that no one is being forced to read his threads. Hell, I enjoy the occasional break that I can use to wax eloquent and heap billingsgate on whichever symbol of authority is pissing me off at the time.

 

So, TSBR, even though I think you're full of shit about half the time, I do like to read your often unique persectives, and you do provide food for thought.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

TSBR, I think it is great that you are so interested in starting many threads of a distinct nature here in the LDLD, but some of these might be better placed in the Political forum. Just a note.

Not only do I give up, I rest my case. For all your sakes, let me take some English lessons so I can communicate better.

What's the political forum for again? Debates by aliens? I don't rememeber being asked to stick to bass matters alone when I registered on this forum. Maybe I missed the fine prints.

 

Behind those very expensive basses we keep seeing on this forum, there are bassists who play them. Those bassists live in this world that we all share. Is it criminal to have discussions on life's issues now and again? Basses don't post on the forum, bassists do.

NB: By the way, I haven't used graemlins this time.

[Thomas Wilburn]

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

TSBR, I think it is great that you are so interested in starting many threads of a distinct nature here in the LDLD, but some of these might be better placed in the Political forum. Just a note.

Not only do I give up, I rest my case. For all your sakes, let me take some English lessons so I can communicate better.

What's the political forum for again? Debates by aliens? I don't rememeber being asked to stick to bass matters alone when I registered on this forum. Maybe I missed the fine prints.

 

Behind those very expensive basses we keep seeing on this forum, there are bassists who play them. Those bassists live in this world that we all share. Is it criminal to have discussions on life's issues now and again? Basses don't post on the forum, bassists do.

NB: By the way, I haven't used graemlins this time.

Fine points all.

 

But one of the nice things about this bass forum, compared to even the others here at Musicplayer, in my opinion, is that they tend to be more restrained and have less shouting involved.

 

When you post a controversial topic, you will get controversial answers. The political forum was specifically created for that, because the threads about off-topic material was starting to overwhelm the SSS forum. Perhaps not this one, but some of your threads (the one about matching politicians and instruments) are very inflammatory. I don't want to see the place go up in flames, pardon the pun.

 

I guess I'm a relative newcomer, and I haven't posted as much as many, but I think it would be nice if you read (for example) Sweet Willie's thread on bass builders and gender/race. There's another topic that addresses a complex issue involving minorities and music--but it is communicated clearly and without offense, and several of us found it to be thought-provoking. I think it would be great if you could continue to post on the wide variety of topics you appear to be interested in, but do so with a similar approach to the composure and tact of your words.

[johnfindlay]

They are never even exposed to anything with a decernable musical instrument

Cutbacks at schools-very scary-at least up here in Canada.

I'm bombarding my 3 year old with music in the hopes it sticks with him before he gets fascinated with 'electronica"[generally].

I cant help but see how this thread could easily turn political and hot.

I have some theories as to why there may not be as many "black groups" today.I'm not a real forum/posty kinda guy so i tread cautiously...

Simllarily to what's been said about guitar 20-30 years ago:anyone could pick one up-everyone did.Same applies to a beat box[computer].

But ya-the guitar is a real instrument that you sweat & toil over.

 

Just 1 & 1/2 cents.

 

JF

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/jfmusic.htm

[Adamixoye]

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

I don't rememeber being asked to stick to bass matters alone when I registered on this forum. Maybe I missed the fine prints.

Not when you signed up, perhaps. But this forum is a democracy that will push and pull to stay on a bass topic. ONE THREAD gets out of hand, and then there were multiple sarcastic threads. It's just the way the forum is.

 

My personal bent is that I don't start political threads, but I frequently respond (and keep responding) when someone says something I really disagree with. Eventually, after several cries to move away from politics/religion/whatever, the thread dies and all is returned to normal. I personally think it's okay to get into those topics once in a while, but I understand where everyone else is coming from.

 

On the other hand, lots of your threads are VERY political in nature, with little bass content. There are other forums on www.musicplayer.com. No one is demanding that you take these threads elsewhere, but many are asking. It's up to you whether you want to abide by those requests or continue antagonizing people (unintentionally or otherwise).

[Metal_Boy16]

The only things that cause the general selling-out of musicians is greed and sex. It's not that the musicians themselves are sold out, they just get replaced by 'stars' (American Idol).

 

About Rap (Ex: Ludacris):

Why learn to play an instrument when you can rap about 'bling bling' and make mad cash of it?

 

About Pop (Ex: Britney Spears):

Why learn to play an instrument when you can get half-naked and become American Youth's sex symbol and make mad cash of it.

 

Who is Who:

Sheep<----anyone who buys any of the albums aired on MTV

 

Pawns<-----the 'stars'

 

Pigs<-----The record company owners/MTV

 

Pink Floyd knew about this, a la Animals.

[way2fat]

I don't mind TSBR's threads being provacative, like Adam I will often respond, but I don't have to and neither does anyone else. And even though I have been accused of not being able to hum a reggae line and walk, that is pretty tame compared to what I have been accused of at other forums. If you're that bugged try another thread.

[Jode]

Prince has been mentioned several times, and he's trying to bring it all back with a little "Musicology" for the next generation. I am so glad he is, too. That's just about the most valuable, most timely piece of pop music I've ever heard.

 

Shakaz, I think the same thing killed live black music as every other live pop form: computerization. If we were auto workers and not musicians, we'd say we were automated out of a job. Anyone else noticed how records sound like shit these days? I tell you, sometimes it gets so bad that I'd rather listen to an easy listening station than the modern rock station just because of the production values of the music. Yeah, they may play some crap. But at least it sounds like it was made by a human being. If I listen to quantized radio for too long, I start to feel like a piece of plastic.

 

Actually, the "adult" stations are the only place these days to find Kool and the Gang, EWF, the Stylistics, and Sly and the Family Stone. Now that will rehumanize you.

[abaguer]

A few issues ago in Bass Player magazine Hub, bassist for the Roots, pretty much asked the same question going so far as to say that things were so strange because he was one of the only guys in a signed black BAND in the US. I think he left out a buch of the old timers like EWF but you get the point.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

I think it would be great if you could continue to post on the wide variety of topics you appear to be interested in, but do so with a similar approach to the composure and tact of your words.

Do any of you give English lessons? I need to learn 'tact' asap. For any offence, don't take any. None intended. Don't try too hard to 'read between the lines' of my threads. That's paranoia.

 

Shakaz, I think the same thing killed live black music as every other live pop form: computerization. If we were auto workers and not musicians, we'd say we were automated out of a job. Anyone else noticed how records sound like shit these days? I tell you, sometimes it gets so bad that I'd rather listen to an easy listening station than the modern rock station just because of the production values of the music. Yeah, they may play some crap. But at least it sounds like it was made by a human being. If I listen to quantized radio for too long, I start to feel like a piece of plastic.

Thanx Jode for overstanding my english. You've answered my question very well. Jazz FM over here, plus BBC Radio 2 play some of the above stuff. Thanx.

 

A few issues ago in Bass Player magazine Hub, bassist for the Roots, pretty much asked the same question going so far as to say that things were so strange because he was one of the only guys in a signed black BAND in the US. I think he left out a buch of the old timers like EWF but you get the point.

Oh yeah? So I'm not alone in making this observation. I think I'll try find that bass player mag. Thanx

[Steve Force]

TSBR: It is certainly helpful to understand your background when reading your postings. Sometimes people (including myself) are a bit too quick to jump to conclusions--indeed, very easy to do on the Internet where one can only read, not hear nor see the person posting.

 

I have lived in total 10 years in Europe

(business professional and manager) and during that time learned to speak German. Therefore, I understand how difficult it sometimes is to "communicate" in a language other than ones mother tongue.

 

However, when one does post here, they must be ready for differing intreptations than intended--this is normal. Don't take it too seriously.

 

Finally, I have a "feeling" you like a bit of controversy (or, at least, a bit of "spice") when you post..

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

PS: Pistons in 6!

[Dave Brown]

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

I think it would be great if you could continue to post on the wide variety of topics you appear to be interested in, but do so with a similar approach to the composure and tact of your words.

Do any of you give English lessons? I need to learn 'tact' asap. For any offence, don't take any. None intended. Don't try too hard to 'read between the lines' of my threads. That's paranoia.

Not English lessons TShak.

 

It seems to a lot of us that you "bait" people. You make a proposition loaded with demons and then you wait for someone to make a comment.

 

I wasn't going to say anything about this until I read your comments in the Ray Charles thread. You know, whether or not you agree with Reagan's politics doesn't change the fact that many people loved him. Every man deserves his just due; every man deserves to be honored for what contribution he made in life.

 

You have very strong political and socio-economic views; these views seem to leave little room for other folk's valid views. Consequently, what begins as a discussion soons becomes a sniping, one in which no one learns anything, no one gets a chance to change their mind, everyone "bars their doors" and stands rigid on thier own defense?

 

When's the last time you changed your mind about anything?

 

I, for one, feel proud to associate with you, as you can bring me something positive from completely outside my own experience. For your message to have its greatest meaning, begin by accepting the validity of other members' messages.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Points taken sir. I'm not sure about the baiting remark. Maybe it's something I don't know about myself, yet . Bait sounds too strong but hey, it's your observation and I take it on board.

[bubba upright]

TSBR--You sure come up with interesting threads.

 

Here's my take:

 

Prior to the mid-80's, most folks that had aspirations of being famous musicians (with a few exceptions) had to create the music on their own, using their own 2 hands. They then took their finished product out to sell. Producers mostly just fine-tuned an already talented band.

Since then it seems that if someone is pretty enough or can make a few words rhyme, or knows their way around a computer, they are a great candidate to be "made" into a star. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that it was refreshing to see hip-hop acts using real musicians in the background, rather than pre-programmed, computer type stuff. I tend to agree, but with the exception of vocal groups (Temps, 4 Tops etc.) 25 or so years ago, the "performers" and "musicians" were one in the same (or at least they were in the "black bands" that TSBR mentioned.) I guess it's just a little easier to rap your lyrics over a song that someone else has already written than it is to learn an instrument(s) and write your own songs from scratch. (no pun intended)

 

On a side note, of all the musicians I know that make 50% or more of their income from playing, most of the white ones play (real) jazz and funk and most of the black guys play in classic rock bands. The lines that once divided us certainly are obscure in central Florida. I tend to think that terms like "black bands" are nostalgia.

[PhilMan99]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

Rap

Samplers

Turntables

That's what did it for me. Emphasis on #1.

[substrat-0]

R&B use to be a term applied exclusively to black musicans who`s genre was called rhythm and blues.Those are the by-gone days.In fact there is no pure R&B Released nowdays

[johnfindlay]

most of the black guys play in classic rock bands

Really? Never woulda thought that?

 

JF

 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/johnfindlaymusicproductions.htm

[Dan South]

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

I grew up on EWF, Gap band, Kool and The Gang, Chic (The group with Nile Rogers...btw, who was the bassist? He was superb), Sly Stone, James Brown, Isley brothers, Jackson 5, Mint Condition, Midnite Star, Surface, Flyte Tyme (Prince, Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis), Whispers, S.O.S Band, Atlantic Star, Roger & The Zap Band and many more.

What happened to Black live bands?

 

A lot of these groups are still around, but with the exception of Prince, no one is buying their records anymore. Therefore, I blame their demise on the FANS.

 

If people think that Snoop Dogg and Fifty Cent are better than EWF and James Brown, well, it's hard to believe that the public is that stupid until I look at who lives in the White House.

[Dan South]

Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

Chic (The group with Nile Rogers...btw, who was the bassist? He was superb)

Bernard Edwards. He passed away while Chic was touring in Japan. Phenomenal player, always an inspiration.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

A lot of these groups are still around, but with the exception of Prince, no one is buying their records anymore. Therefore, I blame their demise on the FANS.

I've made a conscious decision to buy the music of all the bands I listed. I'll do my part to support these legends.

 

I forgot about Mtume!! It's a shame. I'll try and read more about his achievements.

Thanx for all the info Dan South.