The Who vs. Led Zeppelin

[Bob Keelan]

I'm glad to see songwriting mentioned. Townshend is on the Mt. Rushmore of rock song-writing IMO.

[zeronyne]

Originally posted by Tedster Claus:

That's like saying "What's better, ice cream or apple pie?"

Well, Ice Cream had more licks, but not much longevity.

 

And apple pie? Better taste.

 

But I still like The Who better.

[davebrownbass]

I guess I was a WEE bit tongue in cheek...about quantifying this debate, but ending with just a personal opinion.

 

I thought the "research" category and "child porn" was hilarious.

 

About apples and ice cream....they both are great, and greater when added together.

 

I can't think of a single thing that would be improved if you added the WHO and Zep together.

 

Gawd! What a f***ing nightmare!

[dcr]

I have no claim to be able to decide either way in terms of objective merit. But I can tell you that as much as I like the Who, I love Led Zeppelin. Both are great. My experience, though, has been that while I can get into the Who seriously for a while, they've never been one of the bands that define my core musical preferences, & Led Zeppelin was one of those bands from the first time the needle hit the vinyl.

 

Now for points:

 

Bonzo vs. Moon: I can appreciate what Moon was doing, & maybe he was more in the vanguard than Bonzo was, but I'd rather listen to Bonzo any day. Moon always sounded like a drum kit falling down the stairs to me. Bonzo always sounded like someone hitting a beast with that one last, great death-blow.

 

Page vs. Townsend: The world would be a worse place without Townsend's guitar. But I think Page was more influential on me personally.

 

Plant vs. Daltry: I simply don't want to pick. In the end, though, I'm a Plant guy. Although I'd find it easier to be a Plant guy without those subsequent armies of lame wannabes. Man, the 80s sucked for Zep fans.

 

Jones vs. Entwistle: Jones is definitely one of my very biggest influences. On those first few albums, he was golden; but although he was always a good bassist, it seems that there was less of him on later albums, which probably had something to do with the fact that he became increasingly marginalized in the group in general over the years. What would bass be without the second Zep album? For career-length artistic contribution to a band, though, I'd probably have to give it to Entwistle. But could he play synth, mellotron, & organ?

 

Live show: the Who. Sorry, Zep. Maybe if "The Song Remains the Same" had been a decent film... But I think the deal is that the Who were really a live band that took their work into the studio, while Zep were really a studio band that took their work live. And you've GOT to give Zep props for live work on songs like "Celebration Day" and "I Can't Quit You Babe" (the latter off the seldom-heard "Coda" album).

 

Bar fight: band on band, the Who. Band on band, with managers, Zep (who were managed by a former wrestler and mean, bad-ass mofo).

 

Song quality: the Who probably wrote more songs that are "important" in a greater, artistic sense. They certainly wrote some very hard rocking, all-time great, world-class rock songs. But they're very different kinds of songs from Zep songs. I won't pick.

 

Lyrics: the Who. Those songs are poignant, interesting, & hilarious. They are, at least, coherent. But I must say that Zep really instilled in me a sense that vocals are more about sounds, textures, & images than they are about the actual words sung. That's me.

 

Did someone actually say that Zep plagiarized blues songs? You mean, like Bach plagiarized some Vivaldi songs? What you call plagiarism, I call an homage. They took the songs they thought were great, and gave them a new life in a totally different kind of setting, making a new kind of music with them (along with groups like Cream, etc.). The world learned that Willie Dixon songs sound pretty damned good played pretty damned loud!

 

Of course, this is all a fight for 2nd place. Canned Heat's got 'em both beat.

[GTRBass]

Why argue? I'd argue that they are the two most influential bands in rock history. Both bands were comprised of players who were top of their game, were unique, and had a collective chemistry that couldn't be matched.

 

The fundamental difference was their core influences. Both bands were influenced by American Rythm and Blues. Led Zeppelin was enamored by Willie Dixon, and Robert Johnson. The Who was more into Mose Allison, and Junior Walker. The difference? Zeppelin was more improvisation oriented, while the Who were more song oriented.

 

Entwhistle's playing style was out front and extroverted. He held it together and added finese to the music without ever losing the groove.

 

JPJ's is probably the most subversive and subtle bassist ever. He did just what entwhistle did, but was much more covert about it. Try learning the Lemon song some time.

 

I shudder to think where we'd all be without them.

 

True Trivia bit #1: Jimmy Page played 2nd guitar on the studio recording "I can't explain" back when he was still a session player.

 

True Trivia bit #2: Page tried to recruit Moon and Entwhistle as Led Zeppelin's rythm section at a point when it looked like the Who were going to break up. They actually jammed together for about 1 week.

 

True Trive bit #3: The name Led Zeppelin was suggested to Page (as a joke) by Keith Moon. Obvoiusly, it stuck.

[tnb]

Well, after doing the Who's "Tommy" on the road for a year and a half, I am going with Led Zeppelin.

[Nicklab]

I abstain from saying one or the other. I think they're both great bands, and they aren't facing off in a race against each other. It's something I've come to be really opposed to lately. Everyone will like one band or the other for their own reasons. Music is a subjective art form, and it can't be quatified into a competition.

 

It's because of that line of thinking that I think lists like Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Guitarists and the Top 50 Albums of 2003 are an utter crock. Who are these people who call themselves critics to judge one person's work being better than the other?

[g.]

WHUT IS THE BEST BASE I HAV 200 DOLLUZ.

[g.]

PS F13LY CUD K!K UR 4ZZ HE K!KZ 7H0Z3 L4M3RZ 4ZZ!!!!!!!!!!!

[Thomas Wilburn]

Originally posted by Nicklab:

I abstain from saying one or the other. I think they're both great bands, and they aren't facing off in a race against each other. It's something I've come to be really opposed to lately. Everyone will like one band or the other for their own reasons. Music is a subjective art form, and it can't be quatified into a competition.

 

It's because of that line of thinking that I think lists like Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Guitarists and the Top 50 Albums of 2003 are an utter crock. Who are these people who call themselves critics to judge one person's work being better than the other?

It's certainly true that trying to create a "top ten" list of artists on this caliber is literally pointless--it misses the point of how great they are. But I've still enjoyed this thread a great deal, if for no other reason than it gets me thinking critically about two very important rock bands, why I like them, and some of their best anecdotes.

[Jode]

Come on, man. The Who versus Led Zeppelin? That's like asking a parent to choose his favorite kid. Put simply, everyone reading these words owes his musical existence to either or both of these bands. The way you do what you do comes straight from the Who and Zeppelin. They, in turn, owe so much to the Beatles, who were told once by a record exec, "Sorry, boys, but guitar bands are out." (As an aside, it goes to show that record execs havn't gotten any smarter over the years.)

[g.]

Those guys don't owe the Beatles when it comes to bass. JPJ might likely have been into Jamerson in technical approach. I'm not sure who would have influenced Ox because he also had SO much to say about a new SONIC approach with amps and strings - and later, basses themselves.

 

I'm not seeing much Paul McCartney in bass approach there for either, and the two bands were more in the Rolling Stones camp than the Beatles camp (which is not to say they were overly influenced by the Sones either) when it came to energy, riff-oriented and blues-influenced music (the Beatles were on the average poppier and more "Tin Pan Alley").

 

I'm sure they were influenced by the idea of Beatles-level fame and money though ; }

[Rik]

At my old high school (1981-83) the big argument about who is better was Rush vs. Zeppelin. There were two junior highs that fed into this high school. The kids from my JH were into Rush, the kids from the other JH were into Zeppelin. And so the arguments were constant and bitter.

 

Looking back now, it was a stupid argument, since the two bands had/have completely different styles.

[...]

Originally posted by Jode:

Come on, man. The Who versus Led Zeppelin? That's like asking a parent to choose his favorite kid. Put simply, everyone reading these words owes his musical existence to either or both of these bands.

Put simply, I think you and some others on this thread have missed the point of the thread. I didn't get the impression that he really wanted people to say "I like Cheesebread better", I believe he was just looking to compare and contrast the two amazingly good and influential groups. I may be wrong... it's happened before.

[ModmanQ6]

Apples to oranges, plain and simple...but which one will I listen to if given the choice: The Who. Purely personal preference...

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by Bumpcity:

...I believe he was just looking to compare and contrast the two amazingly good and influential groups. I may be wrong... it's happened before.

I concur. I also like cheesebread -- preferably an asiago foccaccia...

 

I really enjoy both bands. I definitely grew up listening to more Led Zep and more aggressively collecting their albums and several bootlegged recordings. I've always really dug JPJ's basslines and I was impressed with his talents on other instruments besides bass -- for example, diggin' keys on "No Quarter". I think that Zep was a tad darker, and I think I was into that. Plus the whole "mythical" angle of many of the lyrics really worked for me.

 

That said, I wore out many a turntable needle on my copy of The Who's Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy...

[R.S.M]

Both awesome bands but i'm more into black sabbath

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

GEEZER!!!!!!!

[GTRBass]

OK. Which band was better - Abba or the Starland vocal Band.

[jeremy c]

ABBA, hands down.

[bc_dup1]

Abba were terrific songwriters and the girls voices sounded great together. Some not-too-shoddy bass-playing as well, notably on "Dancing Queen".

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by bc:

notably on "Dancing Queen".

And "Gimme Gimme Gimme"!

 

Alex

[BenLoy]

tnb rote:

Well, after doing the Who's "Tommy" on the road for a year and a half, I am going with Led Zeppelin.

Woah, that's a tough book for bass. Didn't the bassist on the original cast album play that whole book on fretless? That's what it sounds like anyway.

[mulletsavant]

This is great topic by the way..Thomas Wilburn...to reply to your earlier response about influences..I agree with on the punk band movement somewhat against the 8 minute menadering classic rock songs.)But Zeppelin is a bigger influence than u think. Other than Page's guitar...almost every rock drummer currently would list Jon Bonham as a major influence...and every lead screamer of a 80's hair band has to mark Plant as a huge influence. As well as almost all grunge/metal bands who use the crunchy repetitve percusive guitar riffs that Page used (Hendrix was more influential as far as solos..agreed)Just listen to the first few albums of Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, STP, Nirvana....and almost all heavy metal band and you will hear it. Especially the modern harder rock groups. They're all completely derived from Zeppelin (and Sabbath)

[tnb]

BenLoy, I don't think the book was tough at all. The guitar 1 book is suicidal and the drum book requires that you have a pair, but the bass book is pretty straight ahead.

[dcr]

Originally posted by mulletsavant:

As well as almost all grunge/metal bands who use the crunchy repetitve percusive guitar riffs that Page used (Hendrix was more influential as far as solos..agreed)Just listen to the first few albums of Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, STP, Nirvana....and almost all heavy metal band and you will hear it. Especially the modern harder rock groups. They're all completely derived from Zeppelin (and Sabbath)

Good point. There may be a more-than-accidental connection between the emergence of Seattle grunge & the fact that Seattle's main rock station (KISW) was, in the 80s, basically the Zeppelin channel. (A much needed shelter during the Men at Work storms!)

 

Now I'm thinking about "The Lame List"...

[Thomas Wilburn]

Oh, I'll certainly buy the heavy metal connection. No doubt there. I did a paper on the rhetoric of RATM that required some research into metal history once, and it was amazing how just about every band listed Zep as an influence. Great reading too. It's always wild tracing the musical links back and forth, and hearing how it developed through time.

 

And since I've been a real Who advocate in this thread, I'd just like to point out that Plant's harmonica has it all over Daltreys. "When the Levee Breaks" is just haunting, the way rock harmonica should be. Compare that to the relatively weak riffs even on the Who's 1976 live performance at the Isle of Wight, and you can see how Led Zeppelin was putting those blues covers to good use.

[mulletsavant]

yeah, it definitely makes for interesting discussion, maybe we should post a different "band vs. band" thread each week...maybe next could be ....Beatles vs. Rolling Stones?? That would be fun..

[...]

Originally posted by dcr:

Now I'm thinking about "The Lame List"...

"The Lame List". I had completely forgotten about that. Ahhh... those were brilliant.

[bassdrummer]

Originally posted by Bumpcity:

Originally posted by Jode:

Come on, man. The Who versus Led Zeppelin? That's like asking a parent to choose his favorite kid. Put simply, everyone reading these words owes his musical existence to either or both of these bands.

Put simply, I think you and some others on this thread have missed the point of the thread. I didn't get the impression that he really wanted people to say "I like Cheesebread better", I believe he was just looking to compare and contrast the two amazingly good and influential groups. I may be wrong... it's happened before.

You're absolutely right. I really have been getting an education by reading all the responses to this thread. I'm not nearly as interested in who likes Who as I am in finding out how all these interesting pieces of this 60s/70s rock god jigsaw puzzle that are these two bands fit together. I didn't realize, for instance, how DIFFERENT they are; and also how closely connected they were -- Moon, Entwistle, and Page jammed together for a week?! Now all I need is to find out from someone that Bonham, JPJ and Townsend went on a weekend camping trip together and that Daltry and Plant became Mormon missionaries and rode bikes around LA together.

 

 

Alright, I'll stop . . .

 

I didn't know "When the Levee Breaks" was recorded in a stairway. Love that huge drum sound. Bonham had the funkiest foot and the heaviest hands. What an incredible influence on drummers he was.