bassdrummer Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I love both bands. Compare and contrast them. In what ways are they similar? How are they different? "All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players..." --Rush, "Limelight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkW Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Ditka, all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassdrummer Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by ClarkW: Ditka, all the way.Come again? Anyway . . . And did the two bands ever play a show together? What a night that would be! "All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players..." --Rush, "Limelight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikmag Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Player by player- Bass (most important)- as rad as JPJ is, John Entwistle has not been called the greatest rock bassist for nothing. So i think he takes the cake here. Guitar- I personaly like Page more than Townsend, i think page can just wail and his solos are much more jaw dropping. Singer- I think Its a tie here because daultry and plant are both extremely iconic and can really take the vocals to the song to much more than just the words. Drums- I like moon and bohnam equally, Moon is crazy, and bohnam can solo like mad. So another tie. Overall- Tie (yea im a fence sitter) We distort. You abide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 In a streefight? I'd put my money on the Who. Both bands had great singers, great drummers, great bassists. Zeppelin had a better guitarist, but the Who had a better songwriter. The Who had a WAY better stage show. And I saw both groups in their prime. Give it to the Who on points. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Wilburn Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Nobody beat the Who at their best. Four String Riot the myspaces, we hates it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassdrummer Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Great replies, keep 'em coming! "All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players..." --Rush, "Limelight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danb291 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Led Zep all the way, their songs (while many were covers at first) have much more of a dynamic and harmonic range than the Who. They incorporated everything from folk to reggae and eastern music. They could create any mood or atmosphere with their music, and while Entwistle is a kick ass bassplayer, JPJ is one of the most talented MUSICIANS of all time, while still being a natural on the bass. His string arrangements, mandolin, etc. were unstoppable. Zep rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 First of all, the Who were an innovative group. From day one, when they were called The High Numbers. They recorded tons of innovative music, invented the rock opera, and made one of the greatest live albums of all time...Live at Leeds. Led Zeppelin was formed to cash in on the popularity of the superstar band. The original, Cream, did it much better. Their best songs were plagiarized from blues songs. JPJ is a brilliant musician, but he didn't really get to shine in this band. Keith Moon was a brilliant individualist and John Bonham played funk beats with a rock feel. How's that for an opiniated response? Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu Fhtagn Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Man! That's like asking who's a better Democrat, Dean or Gephart. Two great bands, two totally different directions. Zep's ZOSO is arguably the "metal" album of "my generation". The Who's "Tommy" was probably the most (going out on a limb here) ... artisitc? Conceptual? Townsend was definitely a better stage presence than Page. Page was a better soloist. Jones and Entwisle, from a technical standpoint, strikes me as a tie. Bonham and Moon are basically a tie. Plant sang with that high-end wail that sneered with anti-establishment distain, Daultry was more of an angry lounge singer. I couldn't do Plant vocals without serious and irrepairable damage to some of my favorite body parts. I do have Daultry's range. I've never really bothered to compare the two, talent for talent. Will have to bust out the old vinyl and give it a spin with a more jaundiced ear. I guess the basic question is ... how many people died trying to get in to see Zepplin???? I still remember the T-Shirts ... "I'd walk over YOU to see the Who". Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 The Who were louder, too. I remember a concert at The Berkeley Community Theatre where everyone in the first 10 rows or so was stuffing something in their ears. We won't talk about what they were stuffing in their lungs. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danb291 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Louder shmouder. Who cares? In the 70's Zep was the biggest band out there, they even played venues larger than the beatles. Led Zeppelin was formed to cash in on the popularity of the superstar band. The original, Cream, did it much better. I don't think Zep was formed on the simple principle of making money. And cream certainly was not a much better band (hell they couldn't even stay together). Disraeli gears is awesome but wheels of fire and fresh cream are pretty shoddy at some points. Their best songs were plagiarized from blues songs. Ugh....don't go there. Yeah they plagiarized blues songs but hell so did every other band at the time, including the allmighty cream. So maybe they didn't credit their songs, but they interpreted them in their own style. And those blues covers are not even close to their best songs. Their best blues song, "since I've been loving you," is all original. JPJ is a brilliant musician, but he didn't really get to shine in this band. what does this mean? We wouldn't talk about JPJ today, or see him mentioned in BP, or have so many people influenced by his playing if he didn't shine in the band. His bass is always distinct, and his keyboard and mandolin playing is crucial to many of their songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Wilburn Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 JPJ is a great player, but the only reason I think we even consider him and Entwhistle on the same level is because the mix was often so low on the bass for the Who. By the time Zeppelin really hit its peak, production styles had changed to the point that "backing" instruments began to reach the same priority as the vocals. And the same goes for Keith Moon, frankly. I just finished reading his biography, and the influence that he had on modern rock drumming, especially punk drumming, is unmistakeable. Moon brought a whole new attitude to the drums, treating them almost like a lead instrument. That made Entwhistle's job even more important, since he often had to hold the groove together between Moon and Townshend. Besides, as Jeremy mentioned, Live at Leeds is one of the greatest live albums ever. God knows there are no 25 minute guitar solos on it anywhere. No matter how good Page and the rest of Zeppelin were, they were no-where near as tight, energetic, or innovative as the Who. Four String Riot the myspaces, we hates it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassdrummer Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 I'm just soaking all this in. I was born in 1974, 3 years after my favorite Who album "Who's Next" and my favorite Who song, "Baba O'Riley". It's been said in Modern Drummer magazine that that album has one of the best drum sounds ever recorded. I love the bass line on "Getting in Tune". Keith Moon revolutionized drumming with his sheer energy on toms and riding the crash cymbals. Entwistle really did have to hold it all together! "All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players..." --Rush, "Limelight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 In a street fight, I'd take the Who. No competition from the Zeppelin camp with the exception of Bonzo... Townsend alone could wipe out all of Zeppelin. Now that's out of the way. Musically speaking: Bonzo and Moonie both had their strong points. Both are equally important in my mind to the development of future drummers. Entwistle was a better player than JPJ. As good as JPJ is, he didn't have everything that Entwistle had. Although, the "on we sweep with threashing oar..." part of 'Immigrant Song' is still one of the coolest basslines ever. Jimmy Page and Pete Townsend... well now, there is a match up. Page liked to solo a great deal more and was better at it; even though his technique is as sloppy as they come. Pete Townsend is a vastly superior song writer and he basically invented the rock opera. Daltrey and Plant. Two fine lead screamers. It's entirely too difficult for me to pick a better of the two. Plant is probably copied more by others. I love both these bands a great deal. I don't think it's actually possible to say I like one more than the other in the end. I enjoy them both for what each had to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Wilburn Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Actually, my favorite part of Keith's biography was seeing pictures of his drumset circa 76. The man had 11 toms, a pair of timpani, and a gong, in addition to his pair of bass drums and truckload of snares. Amazing stuff. He used it all too--did those long rolls all up and around the set. It's a sad story. Such an incredibly talented guy, and seemed to spend so much of his life completely out of his head on whatever drugs he could find. Four String Riot the myspaces, we hates it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 This is a great topic. I'm glad to see that nobody is getting too emotional. Can you compare destroying a whole stage of gear with playing a guitar with a violin bow? However, Led Zeppelin was better at destroying hotels. And probably got more chicks. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Wilburn Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: This is a great topic. I'm glad to see that nobody is getting too emotional. Can you compare destroying a whole stage of gear with playing a guitar with a violin bow? However, Led Zeppelin was better at destroying hotels. And probably got more chicks.Yep, hard for me to get all bent out of shape over it, when they were both such great bands, and such great destroyers of property. I'd just about sell my soul to have seen either live. ...but the Who were still better. Four String Riot the myspaces, we hates it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fonz Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 my vote is for zep. i just think they had bigger balls. not in terms of bravery and innovativeness, but in terms of the fact that the music rocked harder (IMO). bonzo was definitely the man to beat. and the best drum sound ever recorded was when the levee breaks. two microphones in a staircase. wow. i actually prefer townsend to page, i think page was sloppy, but overall zep was the better band in my book. Eeeeeehhhhhhhhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Lemme quantify: Guitarist: Townshend vs. Page. Townshend is the consumate rhythm guitarist. Page played much better leads. Bassist: Entwhistle bass lines are inventive, soloistic. JPJ were punchier. Vocalist. One time Daltrey said "Pete is the best rock songwriter in the world, I'm the greatest singer." Robert Plant sang incredibly powerfully, but blew out his voice. He doesn't attempt his old songs at the original octave anymore. Drummist: Keith Moon...absolutely insane and will hit on anything. He would date a mic stand. John Bonham had great time and self control. Songwriters. Pete is the greatest songwriter in rock history. Zep songs tended toward lyrics by committee, with a bent toward weird, obscure and obfuscation. Best Rock Anthem: The Who, "Won't get fooled again" deals with righteous rebellion and surprise when the more things change, the more they stay the same. Zep, "Stairway to Heaven" deals with, uh....something about May Queens and a lady who shines white light and wants to show how every thing still turns to gold and if you listen very hard the truth will come to you at last.....uh, and she's buying a stairway to he-a-ven. On Stage Moves: Pete's Windmill, Roger's mic throwing, Keith's bombast, Entwhistle holding the crazy world in it's orbit with his stolid nature and solid bass lines. Zep: Sweat. Place in History: The Who brought message into "sex, drugs and rock-and-roll" and made the Floyd possible. Zep put sex, drugs and rock-and-roll back message music, and made Metallica possible. Movies: The Who have "Tommy", "Quadrophenia", "The Kids are Alright (and incredible documentary, after all.) Zep has "The Song Remains the Same." Intangibles: The Who come across as content before image; Zep comes across as image before content. The Who pissed on a concrete block, Zep had naked white lady things climbing up a pile of stones. Notable Dead drummers: The Who: Keith Moon, Craziest man in rock. Zep: John Bonham. The Who played Woodstock. Zep didn't. Winner: The Who, by a song. And by being more "Balls to the Wall." And by being (with Pink Floyd and Neil Young) my favorite rock act. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danb291 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I'm not sure I agree that the Who or Zep was more balls to the walls. Both were friggin nuts and partied hard. Bonzo was equally as crazed as Keith IMO (and would win in a fight.....OT? ). But having never seen either I can't comment on live performance. And it's not really fair to say that the Who played woodstock and Zep didn't. At the time Zep had only released 1 album and hadn't reached stardom. The Who had 5 albums out and were very popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinredneck69 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Sorry, gotta say it...this is a pure "apples and oranges" subject. Both bands are great! They both influenced and helped to lay down the rules for rock'n'roll as we know it today. What one band may have lacked the other made up for. Led Zeppelin has leaned more towards influencing the metal/hard rock genre while the Who probably did more for the pop/hard rock genre. I have deleted and re-written parts of this post a few times while trying to type this all out so I'll just say this...As a true fan of rock'n'roll, every one of those guys have made this world a better place to live in! That sounds corny but f**k it, for me music is my sort of happy place (yeah, Happy Gilmore flashback here) its what soothes me, pumps me up or gives me the inspiration I need to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Without either band were would that put me, dunno...don't wanna go that deep Donnie Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinredneck69 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Oh yeah...in a barfight, my money's on the Who. Unless Page ran to a corner and layed the bow across his axe, everybody would start to feel all meloncholy and start shakin' hands and buying each other drinks...then by default Zep would win...aaahhhh, what if... Donnie Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassdrummer Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Thanks to all, very interesting and insightful. Now, to my cd player! This thread is dedicated to Moonie, Bonzo, and The Ox. 3 pioneers who changed the world of rock music! May they rest in peace. "All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players..." --Rush, "Limelight" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc_dup1 Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 "the Who had a better songwriter" IMO that pretty much puts the debate to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by bc: "the Who had a better songwriter" IMO that pretty much puts the debate to bed.Yep. But I still prefer Zeppelin. Alex Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickT Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Led Zep any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Looooooooooooove JPJ. (There was a reason why he was the guy who got called when English singers did Motown covers.) Zep had more colours on their pallet. I own both "Live at Leeds" and the Led Zep BBC sessions. I was bored by the end of "Live at Leeds". Listen to Keith Moon for a lesson in less is more. If he didn't play so much then the great stuff that he played would have had much more impact. Give me John Bonham. I'm not a huge fan of Daltrey or Page to be honest and Pete Townshend sounds kinda pedestrian to me when compared to Jimmy Page. Yes the invented the rock opera and "Pinball Wizard" is one of my favourite songs ever, but give me Zep and that feeling of "it might all fall off the edge of the cliff in a minute, isn't this a blast". Free your mind and your ass will follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulletsavant Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I think there is a bit more bit more talent and groove to Zep, The Who were much more innovative and original, but Zep influenced an entire generation of new bands much more than the Who. I personally dig Zeppelins stuff a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Wilburn Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Zeppelin did influence a whole generation of bands--influenced them away from blues-style rock jams. One of the big reasons that punk became such a dominant rock movement is because people got sick of the crazed half-hour solos and meandering songwriting. Meanwhile, a lot of modern rock does trace its roots back more directly to the Who, who had their eight-minute songs (Who Are You, etc.) but mainly stayed short and sweet. I personally don't think Zeppelin had that much influence. Sure, they inspired a ton of guitar imitators, but Page didn't really change the way people played the way Hendrix or other innovators did. On the other hand, it could be argued that you can hear the Who echoed even through bands of their era--the Rolling Stones, for one, seemed to change tones dramatically after Townshend really hit his songwriting peak, becoming much darker and powerful. I don't think that's a coincidence. Four String Riot the myspaces, we hates it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I'll go along with Page had more licks, Townshend was a better writer...er, let me say, Townshend's writing appealed to my taste more. I tend to prefer Daltrey's singing over Plant's, but they can both belt it out. That's like saying "What's better, ice cream or apple pie?" "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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