How to quiet the drums.

[Sandman]

Ok, my band has been playing shows and we can never get the vocals loud enough. We are really loud though and that seems to be based on a loud drummer we must all match in volume.

 

It seems our only option is to somehow quiet the drums. does anyone know a way to do this?

 

I am also afraid that any attempt to do so will be met with apprehension by the drummer(like taping cymbals or skins or whatever.)

 

Any advice would help a ton.

[sam 2000]

hey they make these plexy glass sheild things to go infront of a drumsset and it works pretty well. but if you can't aford that make a wall around him with mattreses and just give him his own moniter

to bad they dont make thin practice pads

[ClarkW]

Put him behind one of those big Plexiglass shields?

 

Make him use smaller sticks, or even rods (a dozen small, lightweight sticks wrapped together)? Make him buy some V-drums so the sound engineer has literal control over his volume? Mic all of his drums and feed it back to him on a monitor with him mixed twice as loud as he should be, so he'll play quieter overall? Hook a decibel meter up to the backside/underside of his bass drum or snare so that if he exceeds a given threshold, he is electrocuted with a few thousand volts to his family jewels?

 

Hmm, you know, that could work for any other member of the band, now that I think about it...

[sam 2000]

clark i like your thinking man

[Sandman]

Actually, i like the plexiglass idea. Except that he'll say he doesn't have a prob with the volume and we(the rest of the band) may have to buy it.

[sam 2000]

those drummers...

the benifit of the band buying it though is that you get to keap it if you ever boot him or he quits

[Sandman]

True. That way we don't have to tell him to play quieter or mess around with his equipment.

 

I wish there was a cheaper way, but this may workout.

[...]

Brushes or rods would quiet him right down. Whether or not he's hip to that idea is an entirely different matter. Asking him to play quieter might not be a bad idea either.

 

Playing live with a V-drum kit isn't exactly the best thing ever... you're at the mercy of the monitors to hear the drummer. As we all know from playing that dive on the corner of 4th Ave and Blah Street, the house monitors can be severely lacking.

[ClarkW]

Seems like you can get a decent drum shield for $200 to $300. http://5starplastics.com/prod01.htm

[Ren.]

How to quiet the drums.

Shot the drummer.

[MattC]

Try buying a set of pads and using an exacto knife to cut the inside away, leaving about a 2" or so ring of foam around the edge of the head. The feel is about the same and it does quiet down the drums. As far as cymbals go, stay away from those anoyingly ubiquitous "rock" cymbals and lean toward the "light" varieties. If he complains that they are too light or that he thinks he'll break them, it's time to buy him lessons because he doesn't know how to drum.

 

...and on a side note... I was at practice once and we had a friend of the band sit in behind the kit. This guy was absolutely smashing the cymbals with all his strength. With my ears in pain, I looked over to one of the guitarists, Dave, who actually owned the kit: he looked a little nervous for his gear. Later that night, after the sit-in left, the other guitarist, obviously excited, told us just how good that drummer was, praising his abitily to really "hit the shit" out of those drums. and I'm still wonmdering...

[earljam]

stand on one side of him with the guitar on the other side and take turns backhanding him.

 

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If a frog had wings, he wouldn't whomp his ass a hoppin'.

[fantasticsound]

One word: Brushes.

 

I have only one phrase for musicians that can't play well at a variety of levels; Learn to play your instrument.

 

Any good drummer should know how and what to play in any specific situation. You don't play the same (or at least you shouldn't) in a small bar as you do in a large hall. Many bands have been coddled into believing they can play loud in any situation and the room or sound system should be forgiving enough to sound good, regardless. That just isn't true. If you can't adjust to suit the room then you're not a competant musician. Drummer, bassist, guitarist, or otherwise.

[Sandman]

Well, this guy can really drum. He has been highly trained and he's very versatile. He has lond since got rid of all his heavy rock cymbals.

 

I just think his high quality drum set (like high quality amps today) is better designed and much louder than older sets.

 

I also like the idea of the pad around the edge of the drum, sounds like a solid idea.

[tnb]

If he has been highly trained, a simple "hey man, you to f*cking loud" should suffice. Is he the only drummer in town?

[Jode]

They make these wonderful devices for drummers called "dynamics." Tell him to use them in his playing, and he can play at any volume he likes.

 

In all seriousness, muffling the drums should be a last resort. Making his instrument sound like crap is not the way you want to go, and that's what muffling often does. In a live setting in a small club, some Zerorings should do nicely to take some of the extra loud out of the drums without muffling them too much. I also agree with the monitor suggestion - he may be overplaying because he can't hear himself. Perhaps it's not the drums that are too loud, but the guitars? Feed some of his live sound back to him, and TURN DOWN the rest of the band and see what happens. Plexiglass baffles are also a good suggestion - they'll cut his volume in front of the stage, plus they'll throw his sound back at him so he can hear himself. And lighter sticks could always help - buy him some 7As or something, although if he's "highly trained," he should have a variety of sizes in his stick bag. He could also try maple sticks instead of hickory or oak - they're lighter and less dense.

 

While working out a solution, NEVER forget this fact, also: YOU are the ones with volume knobs on your instruments, not him. Make sure he's not overcompensating because the rest of you boys are scary loud.

[crazystix]

V-drums changed my life. I switched from acoustics late last year and haven't looked back. I may be able to save my hearing now.

 

We practice now completely through the use of headphones using our board and a Behringer headphone amplifier. It's sweet! We hear each other perfectly mixed and at a very reasonble volume. Before everyone had to turn up to match my drum volume.

 

Live it's great too. I have 2 kits. A Roland V-Stage kit and a Hart Dynamics 6.4 Pro. I use a Roland TDA-700 Vdrum amp. The amp is sweet too! I use it for my own stage volume and as a monitor to hear everyone else. It has 3 inputs, so I have a lot of control of the monitor volume. I can turn myself up in the mix too if I need to.

 

Our soundman loves the Vdrums. They make his life much easier too. He can control my FOH volume much better than before depending on where we're playing. I also get a lot more low end now than before. I run 4 outputs from the Roland brain through direct boxes to the board. The drums are always in tune and you don't have to worry with mic placement, gating, etc.

 

Not to metion I have a lot less crap to carry around with me now. They've really made me like my job as the drummer again. I recommend any drummer to consider them. You can check out a couple of photos of my sets on our website. Thanks! Chris

 

ON THE HUNT (Lynyrd Skynyrd Tribute Band)

[Tom Capasso]

Have you tried a search on the drum forum?

 

I bet those guys have faced this before.

 

Sounds like a technique issue to me. When I joined one band, the drummer wore headphones (like the guys at the airport wear) to guard his ears against his rimshot tendency. It wasn't as bad as it sounds when I describe it here, but those shots were loud (of course they fit in well, just too much). After about a year, the band broke up. When we reformed about 8 months later (all the same guys), the drummer hadn't played at all during the down time. When he started up again, his style had changed a bit - most notably the rim shots (and headphones) were gone. It was fine from there on out.

 

Tom

[NickT]

Whilst anyone playing too loud can be at best really annoying...I would always prefer that a drummer plays too loud than too quiet. There is nothing worse than a beat that sounds timid. I love to hear the drums pounding away next to me being whacked with real authority.

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by NickT:

Whilst anyone playing too loud can be at best really annoying...I would always prefer that a drummer plays too loud than too quiet. There is nothing worse than a beat that sounds timid. I love to hear the drums pounding away next to me being whacked with real authority.

Ok, but there is a difference between authority and absolute level. I know drummers that can blow most anyone away without blowing out their ears. I saw a drummer with Bill Frissell who's playing is unparalleled. The guy was dead solid perfect, with character for days. Yet he never blew out the room with hard hits.

[Sandman]

Well, I figure we (me and and the band leader/lead guitarist) are gonna basically bring it to the band that we MUST play quieter at the next rehearsal. This will include the drums. I hope to hell that the drummer just says "OK, I'll play quieter." or something along those lines.

 

I would feel awkward though debating with him about his heavy drumming. But as you guys seem to think it a basic skill of good drummers it shouldn't be a problem (hopefully, but i am fearing a shakespearian fatal flaw here).

 

As to his training. In highschool the music teacher recognized him as an exceptional talent and refered him to the best drum/percussion teacher in the city. he studied with him for a long time and he is now easily the best drummer i know or have seen in a local band(with the exception of his actual teacher.)

[SteveC]

A good drummer should be able to pul back and still get the right feel and effect. That said, we do use a drum shield and it is really nice. We only use it when we play with a full PA. At smaller venues, our drummer just holds back a bit.

 

Hot Rods are a great and cheap suggestion. But in the long run, you should be able to come together as a band and make some decesions. That's part of being in a band, too.

[humabass]

I think it requires an adjustment by him of his technique. I've played with a certain drummer for 20 years and he is very loud and has said he just doesn't enjoy playing as much unless he hits hard. As he's matured he's gotten quieter and his playing is now better than ever. Man,it's bad enough having to cart around drums but also having to carry those plexiglas shields? Too much hassle for me.

[djarrett]

SandMan:

May I add a drummers perspective. Now, of course, this scenario would depend upon the drummer. I usually adjust my dynamics according to the volume of the rest of the band. This practice must involve a system of checks and balances however. Seems that the rest of the band will do this as well.

 

If the guitar player tweeks the volume up a bit, then the bass will dial up as well. Then everyone starts competing against each other for volume.

 

You must all agree to hold the level to a certain level. Once you rise above that threshold, ... take a break, and dial the volume down again.

 

For this to work, everyone must be playing with musicality in mind. Being in a band is not a fight to be heard. It should be an attempt to blend.

 

Additionally, (and seriously as I read some of the fun posts above), you must be careful of demanding a drummer to use a certain stick, rod, brush, or head type as well as taping drums or cymbals. Put yourself in his place. How would you feel if someone demanded the type of bass you play ... or what type of strings you can use. There are many other ways to solve this problem.

 

ALSO, may I suggest www.clearsonic.com

See the plexi sheild with the sorber panels. I also use the Auralex (see www.auralex.com) panels behind my kit and infront of the bass drum. These foam panels are light and hang from a folding mic stand. They help a lot!

 

Hope this drummer perspective helps.

Thanks,

DJ

[Sandman]

Thanks djarrett.

 

I clearly don't want to be too in your face about it. Especially being critical about technique. Lord knows he could fire back about my inadequacies or just be bitter.

 

I guess i need to convince him he needs to play quieter and let him maybe decide the best way.

[shex]

cut up an old bed sheet and stick it underneath the skins of the toms and snare. changes the tone of the drums a bit, but quietens it a lot. our drummer did it for a bit, then decided he wanted to be louder again.

 

we had to shoot him.

[music-man]

Okay, I understand the problem when a drummer's too loud for a rehearsal space. Everyone's standing really close to each other, the cymbals are sizzling in your face, and its really tough to hear what's going on when your ears are bleeding. If you're having a problem hearing and the drummer won't back off in rehearsals, I'd suggest wearing ear plugs. And incidentally, I think plugs can really improve the "tightness" as a band - when I put in plugs, I hear a lot of sloppiness that gets hidden by the roar of the instruments ...

 

But as to gigs - I'm not so sure. Is the band drowning out the vocals in the mains? Or is the problem that you're not getting enough vocals in the monitors? I might suggest that if the un-miked drum set is too loud for the mains, perhaps the room (or the P.A.) is too small for your music. Perhaps you might try using hand drums and re-arranging tunes to play an "acoustic" set for some of the smaller clubs. Most decent-sized clubs around here will mike at least the snare/kick - if the sound engineer at your clubs is doing this, it may be that the problem is not your drummer, but the sound person.

 

Finally, before blaming the drummer, I'd get yourself a long cord, get off of the stage, and stand out in the house while you run a song. Have the drummer play, then add in the vocals (so they are balanced), then add in the bass, then the guitars.

 

With all due respect, I wonder whether you might discover that the problem is that you all are trying to compete for STAGE volume with the drummer, and so you all turn up your amps. This is a classic gig problem for bands: the room is bigger and so you don't hear your amps (usually sitting on the floor and blowing past your pant legs) as well as you normally do in rehearsals (where rooms are smaller and more "live"), so you crank up to compete with the cymbals (which are at ear level) ... as a result, the band is too loud, the P.A. can't compete, and EVERYONE blames the drummer. Before you piss off the drummer (who you obviously respect, and who probably has a good deal of experience), I'd suggest getting a sound person with decent ears to help you with a sound check at a club. After you get your levels set, everyone has to agree not to fiddle with their amps during the gig.

[saxofunk]

Originally posted by ClarkW:

Mic all of his drums and feed it back to him on a monitor with him mixed twice as loud as he should be, so he'll play quieter overall?

We did exactly the opposite to get more sound with some drummers. In my church P&W band we have 4 drummers who rotate. The set is acoustic snare & bass, electric toms, real cymbals all behind plexi. A couple drummers really hit the snare, a couple tap it.

 

Since the drummer monitors through headphones, the bass player asked the soundman to trim the snare about 20% on the drummers who hit it soft. Sure enough, they naturally began to compensate by killing the drum. Just crank their monitor and trick them into playing soft.

 

Or use a couple of the extra-long zip-ties, hold their hands behind their back and zzziippp - no more noise issues.

[Sandman]

well, i've heard the tapes of one of our shows, and the drums are too loud, and so is the rest of the band. But if we turn down the amps and the drums don't it doesn't solve anything(which we did partway into the set).

 

At our last gig we didn't mic the drums at all and the mix would be fine if the PA could get vocals loud enough which it couldn't.

 

But we want to be quieter not just for the sake of the mix, but we kill anyone near the stage with volume, band members girlfriends bring earplugs because it's too intense.

 

The band leader also made mention to the fact that his high end drum set contributes to the loudness when compared to older kits. Anyone have an opinion on this?