jeremy c Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Just saw her "sing" at the NBA all-star game. It wasn't even good lip-synching. Does she ever sing live? I heard a rumor from a pretty reputable source that her "live" band got big salaries for miming their parts on stage. Meanwhile the bass player who played on many of her recordings, Randy Jackson, is now nationally famous as a judge on American Idol. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenLoy Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 More power to Randy for his success as a producer. Her management surrounds her with some muthas...I'll give her that. Mariah as a phenomenon I find a little annoying...especially her lip synching... I mean, Britney spears lip syching during a show where she's bouncing around so much that unintentional sarod-like pitch bends in the vocals result, well that I can at least see the logical reasoning behind (still a copout)... But was it that much trouble just to give Mariah a wedge out there for her to hear herself with? Then again, I've seen good singers get away without one in reverb-heavy gyms before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumpelstiltskin. Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 remember that she is (or was) a very talented and good singer. pop machines have ground away greater talents than she, though. she has shown no internal strength to indicate she could fight it. robb. because i like people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Mariah is a nice package. Nice voice....catchy pop songs, sexy bod...needy. And then..... I was really attracted at her at first....loved the Christmas song "All I want for Christmas is You" and the video. Then, when she was at the Grammys, she said something that spoilt her for me. "I know I have an amazing voice and a 5 octave range. One time, in the studio, I was singing and my voice broke into two parts. I started singing harmony with myself. I was out. At that moment, I realized God doesn't give everybody all gifts....Her brain, evidently, lies somewhere between horny toad and cat on the evolutionary scale. For the benefit of doubt...her high voiced squeals would be very difficult to pull off live....so I can understand why she synchs. She is easy on the eyes, and I would like to see, uhhh... more of her. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfmonkey Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by davebrownbass: She is easy on the eyes, and I would like to see, uhhh... more of her.Easy there grandpa. I have no homepage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 A very talented singer who is not very bright. Great voice, mediocre material She is due for another nervous breakdown soon, due to her continued state of denial regarding Tommy Mottola. She is suffering from the delusion that her boyfriend/husband being the president of the label, (Which just happened to be the biggest label in the world; Sony) had nothing to do with her success as a recording artist. She just can't figure out why her career has stalled, and the world is not humbled by her enormous talent. What a burden to have to bear. Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNC Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I don't think Mariah is a good singer at all. She has a very capable voice (especially range), but to be a great singer, I think you have to have some taste and restraint. To me, all here music is just vocal gymnastics; and here princess-of-the-world attitude is obnoxious. And as far as harmonizing with herself (trying to hold back laughter), the only people who can do it are a group of munks who's name evades me. Its sounds very strange (rough groaning chant) and totally ruins your vocal chords. Oh, and don't forget, she is a movie star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaddik Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 i like mariahs voice- shes aditz , though. Randy Jackson is an excellent bassist- i heard him 100 years ago with Billy Cobham and he was smokin! he played with Journey and countles other groups - he is quite capable. His success as producer overshadows that he is a fine bassist. Kinda like Michael walden- he tried to be apop star- and he was/is a successful producer, but man- have you heard him play drums??? AMAZING!!! see Mahavishnu Orchestra . Apocalypse , for example --- with the London Symphony Orchestra incredible record. Praise ye the LORD. ....praise him with stringed instruments and organs... Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. excerpt from- Psalm 150 visit me at: www.adriangarcia.net for His glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groovyjazzyfunky Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by BNC: And as far as harmonizing with herself (trying to hold back laughter), the only people who can do it are a group of munks who's name evades me. Its sounds very strange (rough groaning chant) and totally ruins your vocal chords.Check out Bela Fleck and the Flecktones' "Live at the Quick" DVD. There's a guy featured on a couple of songs who does exactly what you just described. At times you can actually hear *three* notes coming out of his throat. It'll blow your mind the first time you see/hear it. It's called "Tuvan throat singing." Anyway, you *have* to check out this DVD. I just finished watching it again today for like the 11th time, and it still gave me those "at the concert" chills. You know what? I believe Maria could've had the experience she described. Her "second voice" probably wasn't doing very *good* harmony, but vocal chords aren't much different from strings and reeds, and look at all the crazy overtones/harmonics that you can get out of those. Oftentimes when I'm playing sax with my funk/jam band I'll just go absolutely nutso at some point, biting the reed and growling and playing unconventional fingerings and actually *screaming* into my horn, creating what amounts to probably 2-4 notes (but sounds like a lot more). Of course, I have very little control over what those notes are. It's kind of a matter of chance. So many different variables involved, and I'm certain that I could never do it the same way twice. But it sure is a heckuva lotta fun. So, yeah, I have absolutely no problem believing that it happened once to Mariah. All your bass are belong to us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by davebrownbass: "I know I have an amazing voice and a 5 octave range. One time, in the studio, I was singing and my voice broke into two parts. I started singing harmony with myself. I can just see her army of producers laughing their asses off as they slowly turned the knob on the vocal harmonizer from the control booth. Poor girl. Ah, nice marmot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idnarb Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 The thought of her awful pop infused songs makes me wanna wretch. The thought of her diva like bitchy "Im a pop star worship me" attitude makes me wanna go postal. That said, she has a great voice, but her personality ruins any possible appeal. Your Friendly Neighborhood Pirate- Idnarb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Poor Mariah. She's a mess. I remember wayyyy back in the early 90s when she was just a kid, singing "Vision Of Love." She had so much promise. Then something happened. Maybe the fame got to her, maybe she was overworked... whatever. She lost her f'ing mind. Yeah, she can still sing, but she's nuts. It's all in her eyes. She's got the "crazy eyes," and I wouldn't wanna get within 20 feet of her. She looks like she could potentially snap at any moment. Obviously someone else is making decisions for her, and they're making bad ones. Her material has sucked ass for the last five years, and she seems to be phoning her performances in... She's just sad. And let's not talk about Glitter, OK? WOOO. Poor girl. I always thought she had an amazing voice, but she's just totally out of touch with reality now. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Zeger Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by BNC: And as far as harmonizing with herself (trying to hold back laughter), the only people who can do it are a group of munks who's name evades me. Its sounds very strange (rough groaning chant) and totally ruins your vocal chords.That would be the Tuvan throat singers. It's an amazing effect. Check the movie Genghis Blues, an excellent documentary about a blind American blues musician who learned the technique and traveled to Asia to perform with the Tuvans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fig Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I really have been confused about the fuss over her since she hit the scene. Wonderful voice. I wish I had that level of talent for my own singing. But it's as many posters have said, she's lost touch, she's way, way, too full of herself, and she seems to have the brains of a small garden salad. I don't care how attractive a person is, when they are that full of themselves, in my eyes, it turns them ugly and something to be avoided. I imagine she's surrounded by a squadron of 'yes' people who get paid too much to tell her the truth. But if she's dim enough to be controlled by so many people, as to lose her identity, well, she kinda deserves what she's getting. Kinda sucks she gets paid so much, though. What a shame. Bassplayers aren't paid to play fast, they're paid to listen fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy clay Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I agree with Groovemouse, she could have "learned" the Tibetan singing method. She does have a unique set of "pipes", and could very well be gifted in that area. Her intelligence level is another thing entirely. , but she is a looker.... BTW, I heard a trombone player doing what groovemouse is talking about, he was humming/squealing into the trombone in harmony. It was unreal. At the time I had never heard anyone else do that, but after I read groovemouse I guess it's not that uncommon. But is is cool.... I'm trying to think but nuthin' happens.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Zeger Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by randy clay: BTW, I heard a trombone player doing what groovemouse is talking about, he was humming/squealing into the trombone in harmony. It was unreal. At the time I had never heard anyone else do that, but after I read groovemouse I guess it's not that uncommon. But is is cool....It's a technique called "multiphonics". Trombone player Albert Mangelsdorff is famous for using it. It's common with digeridoo players. Here is an article about it: http://www.trombone.org/articles/library/dickgriffin-mc.asp Mariah studying Tuvan throat singing? She probably thinks Tuva is a brand of sport sandals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prague Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Originally posted by BNC: And as far as harmonizing with herself (trying to hold back laughter), the only people who can do it are a group of munks who's name evades me. Its sounds very strange (rough groaning chant) and totally ruins your vocal chords. Aren't those the guys of Tuva? It is a small country in south central Russia or thereabouts. I don't remember the monk thing, but they may as well be. Hmmmm... Maria's new duet (or quartet of two). The Quartet of Two-va. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davich Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 No matter what she is, I have still an admiration for her achievement. She has good, more than incredible singing techniques and voice quality, she has had the chance of marrying one of the most influential person in recording industry, and more than ten number one song in world's pop chart. I remember when I was comparing Mariah and Whitney. I thought Whitney would last longer and can stand more in music industry, cause of her integrity. But who knows about life? I don't care for her comment about herself, for even if we are at her position someday (all the fame, all the attention, all the wolves around and all the egos, there might be a mental breakdown in some stages of life), we'll never know, and don't know how to hold back when we are there by ourselves. About her comment singing harmony to herself, who knows about that incident, because we are not there by ourself, so I don't have comment for that. I am not a lawyer, but I have several times when I have trouble telling other people and they laughed by the way I tell them, even though I am telling the truth of things that happened to me. An embarrasement, I called that a diplemacy failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Oh, please! Another bash the celebrity thread. How exciting! I suppose that this will be lost on you musical geniuses, but Mariah is great at what she does. She's a lot better at what she does than I am at what *I* do, and that's why she's rich and a household word, and I'm not. And it's probably why you're not, either. Deal with it. I don't like her songs - not my stylisting preference - but I can recognize talent and ability when I see it, and I don't have some subconscious need to put down successful people to make myself feel more important. The girl is an amazing singer, and if she says that she managed to create an overtone during a take one day, I would give here the benefit of the doubt instead of automatically insulting her intelligence. Is it really a big surprise that this girl can do things with her voice that most people can't? Again, that's why she's so successful; she can do things with her voice that most people can't. You GO, girl! The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotown Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Well Dan, thanks for giving us all your keen insight into the inner workings of all of our minds. I am sure you have saved us all thousands of dollars in therapy expenses. It must be nice to know how everyone else should be thinking. What an incredible power you possess! Jotown:) "It's all good: Except when it's Great" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 Hey, I started this thread. I never said anything about her singing, her talent, her, intelligence, or her mental condition. I just said that she was lip-synching on tv and not doing that great a job of lip-synching. The audience doesn't seem to care. Also if you watch these half-time spectacles you will notice that the performers are always surrounded by enthusiatic young people who are into the performance. It looks like they hire people to be the audience because those young people in their colorful outfits are not in the stands or visible at any other time during the game. I thought she showed talent and originality when she first appeared and I would love to hear her open her mouth and let it rip, instead of hearing a produced vocal track. I also commented that it was ironic that nobody knows who Randy Jackson the bass player is, but everyone knows who Randy Jackson the judge on American Idol is. I'm sad. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thrashole Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Yeah it might have been lip synched but wow that dress looked full. I would like to have seen her shoot a couple of jumpers in that oversized jersey. Reach out and grab a clue. Something Vicious My solo crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryrobinett Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Why all the hostility Jotown? Dan said it right. I can't stand her music. I don't even like the way she looks. Sure she looks sexy, but please. Mariah can sing. Not my style AT ALL, but I'll not begrudge her her talent. She's had an incredible sting of hits. No small feat even if most people are stupid by my estimation. It's easy and cheap to target those on top, especially when they fall. It's not fun to fall whether your on a stool or on the Empire State Building. All the best, Henry Robinett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I don't think I bashed Mariah. I critiqued her choice of material, and I stand behind that critique. I think it's safe and boring. She has an incredible instrument in her voice. I think it's sad that she doesn't do more interesting things with it. And I don't care what anyone says -- to me, she looks like she's lost her fucking marbles. The way she's changed over the years is scary. But, more on the original topic, if you're watching a sporting event on TV and expecting something other than bullshit for half-time entertainment, you are in big trouble. Solution? Take a dump during half-time. Either that, or get a snack. As for Randy Jackson... well... yeah. It's all about exposure. More people also know Ozzy Ozbourne than Rudy Sarzo because Ozzy is the STAR and Rudy is the sideman. Granted, Ozzy made a bunch of his biggest solo albums with Rudy on bass, but few people know Rudy. Same thing with Randy and Mariah. Few knew him as a bassist because he was the sideman in Mariah's band, in spite of the hits he helped Mariah create. Now that he's on a big TV show, lots of people know him for that rather than his past accomplishments. He has more personal exposure now, so he's a star in his own right. Now, if we could just get ol' Rudy a gig on Survivor.... \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanYmaL X Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Originally posted by CMDN: Solution? Take a dump during half-time. ....You kill me... I love it. DX Aerodyne Jazz Deluxe Pod X3 Live Roland Bolt-60 (modified) Genz Benz GBE250-C 2x10 Acoustic 2x12 cab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I don't think I dumped on Mariah. I agree 110% (Post of the day to me for the random "Bedazzled" reference) that her instrument is great. I even like her songs...and I really liked her "I'll be There" cover from MTV Unplugged. I've heard she wasn't synching at All star Game, I dunno. She did sing live at the Diva broadcast...with Carole King and company. My real point was that you take this great voice, catchy pop love songs and put them in a package straight from heaven and then top it off with a personality that's ego-centric and vapid. Kinda spoils it for me. I'd rather listen to Mr. Gilmour from the Pink Floyd than Mr. Lee from 10 Years After because of the substance to their solos. (Okay, the Woodstock performance of "helicopter" is a tour de force of energy!) But after a few moments of glory with Mariah, you're left with a highly needy star with little to say. Where's Karen Carpenter when you need her? (My Teenage Crush!) As for great bassists working for big stars...yeah. BARRY MANILOW wrote a song for them (Studio Musicians) Vapid, Vapid, Vapid. It's no wonder we have to go appear as a judge on American Idol. If the judge were, say, T. Mottola, would he lean more heavily toward Mariah rip-offs...or would that turn him off? "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted February 11, 2003 Author Share Posted February 11, 2003 Tommy Mottola as a judge? That would be cool! Anyone remember the song by Dr. Buzzard's Original Savannah Band that mentioned Mr. Mottola by name? I think he was an A&R man at the time. And whatever we think of Mariah (and please don't talk to me about her looks, I see pretty girls all the time, being pretty doesn't win a lot of points with me in the singing department), every girl singer I hear age 20 down to age 12 has been heavily influenced by her style. She is probably the most influential singer of her generation, just like Aretha Franklin was for my generation. Not making any value judgements about this factoid. Actually speaking about a singer's looks, to me a singer who is not necessarily physically pretty who makes me fall in love with her by the way she sings is what I'm looking for. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibescotty Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Originally posted by jeremyc: And whatever we think of Mariah (and please don't talk to me about her looks, I see pretty girls all the time, being pretty doesn't win a lot of points with me in the singing department), every girl singer I hear age 20 down to age 12 has been heavily influenced by her style. She is probably the most influential singer of her generation, just like Aretha Franklin was for my generation. Not making any value judgements about this factoid. I would have went with Whitney Houston as the most influential actually. Mariah's success speaks for itself though. Double Posting since March 2002 Random Post Generator #26797 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassaddik Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 i have "played" at two Superbowls- with KC and the Sunshine Band ( now THERE's a bundle of talent!!! ) you cant play live- its just not practical- they wheel you out- you lyp sync, they roll you back- most of the time theres not even any power on the stage.. maybe Mariah couldnt hear a monitor- and the delay made her seem off sync-- i think she has a beautiful voice. Now shes trying to hard to be a hootchiemama - a turn off.. Jeremy, that "audience" is indeed hired- they are ususally the dancers or extras that get bussed in and right back out-- the last Superbowl i played was my football heros last game- John Elway repeated with a Broncos win- the scene backstage was great- hanging with Kiss, Cher, KD Lang, Gloria Estefan, Stevie Wonder, etc.. it just goes to show how much money the NFL has- but, yes, those cheery people you noticed having such a good time got a check for it... Praise ye the LORD. ....praise him with stringed instruments and organs... Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. excerpt from- Psalm 150 visit me at: www.adriangarcia.net for His glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebrownbass Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Hmmmm..... To continue the discussion: To me, what a singer has to say is pretty important. Claire Torry on "The Great Gig in the Sky" said a lot, improv-ing to the Floyd as Roger Waters did his best impersonation of Bugs Bunny doing his best impersonation of Leopold Stowkowski. Not a looker, that girl. Janis Ian also really moved me....no sexual tension there. Carole King moves mountains with her songs. Not what you'd call "fine," but she did marry her bass player (Charles Larkey) for the Tapestry sessions. There has always been, though, a market for singers who had incredible instruments and great interpretation. As well, there was also a market for singers who brought sexual tension to their audience. Would Mariah be successful as a latter day Avril Lavigne? Her instrument is that good, yes. But I think image is what's marketable. In Mariah's case, her market is guys....not that guys buy her album. Girls who want to borrow her sexual energy, her coyness and to be sure, her talent are strongly influenced by Mariah. Now, what is she saying to these girls...."be faithful?" "Be strong when your guy books." "Loneliness is bad, but you can survive." "I'll be there to pick you up when you are down." "I'm more than just a body, but the body is nice too, don'cha think?" All of these messages are good, strong, romantic underpinnings that may help young women be strong in thier dating life, and assist them in their future marriages. Mariah makes guys want her....flirting sells. The promise of a relationship sells. But what I prefer, is the absolute honesty, frank sexuality and profoundity of something like: "The first time, every I saw your face, I felt the earth move...in your eyes. And I knew our joy would last Til the end of time Would last, til the end of time." Mariah couldn't sing that believably or powerfully. "Let's raise the level of this conversation" -- Jeremy Cohen, in the Picasso Thread. Still spendin' that political capital far faster than I can earn it...stretched way out on a limb here and looking for a better interest rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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