I'm finally a victim of anti 5-string bias

[bassaddik]

Snow??!!!

it was 105 degrees in Vegas last week!

[The Bear Jew]

Ben...

Whoa. Take it easy there. I wasn't trying to bait you or anyone else on this subject -- I'm trying to help Gryff work out his band issue.

 

I never said the shape or color of a person's instrument was more important than the way it sounded or the way they played. I said I would break our guy's balls about getting an instrument that didn't fit into the band's agreed-upon image once he was already in the band. We decided on our "image" when he joined the band. He had a hand in it. So, if everyone else in the band went out of the way to be sure that their gear follows that theme (in our case, we use wood tones, 'bursts or plain black), it'd be pretty stupid for him to go out and buy an aqua (or similarly festively colored)instrument. It'd make him look like they weren't on the same page as the rest of us when we're onstage. It'd be indicative of a greater problem within the band -- a lack of shared vision and one of us going back on an agreed-upon plan. We want to have a particular visual effect when we play, and something too "pointy" or modern-looking doesn't really work with it. For example, wouldn't a green plexiglass B.C. Rich Warlock bass look funny in a traditional country band?

 

I don't care what he plays in the studio -- it could be anything as long as it sounds right. Onstage is a different story.

 

The other guys would give me just as much of a hard time if I ditched my Les Paul started playing a pink Danelectro -- even if the Dano sounded like the L.P., they'd go after me for playing an oddball guitar. We'd break our drummers stones if he decided to play a really big, orange leopard-skin prog-rock set. That stuff just doesn't fit us.

 

The crux of what I'm saying here is that this band thing is a team effort, and everyone participating should have the same end results in mind. Communication and understanding the common goal is key.

 

Anyway, this is WAY O.T., and I apologize to everyone for taking this much space here.

[g.]

bassaddik:Snow??!!! it was 105 degrees in Vegas last week!

Yeah, and just a few days ago we had a run of weather in the high seventies and low eighties, followed by a day of mid-forties drizzle. Now it's risen to 36 degrees and a big messy thaw is making it possible to again spot the hoses, sprinklers and freshly mown (not yet hissing) summer lawn.

 

<-- greenboy ---<<<<    hot enough for ya, adrian? ; }

[Tom Capasso]

CMDN, I'm glad your band all agreed to a look - that's the only way it could work (and the only way I'd buy into it).

 

Having done lots of shopping in the past 3 years, I agree that too many active circuits have treble so sharp my pant legs got slit open. That's one of the reasons that people like Carvin (I think their pre is easier to control), and that's why I ordered a 2-band on my new bass. It's been my experience with many 2-bands that they are less shrill. I haven't played the Heir, so I can't speak to that directly. I do think otne is all that matters between a 4 and 5, as long as you're not fudging every other note (and a band could give you some time to learn).

 

My own band looks for tone, and we use phrases like "can you get a bit of delay in that sound" (guitar) or "can you mix a string tone underneath the piano (keys). We're old with limited budgets - if the person can sound right, what do I care if their stuff is new or old? Hip or trash?

 

My own case is sooo simple. People have invited me to play over the years because of what I bring to the music (as many of us have said). My Gibson EB3 doesn't sound like any other bass, but no one has ever complained. And while it's that "SG red" instead of sunburst, it is traditional enough to look right for the music we play - it looks a lot better than I do

 

Lastly, I didn't get bad vibes from the comments made by guitar players. Egos come from all instruments, and it's fair to ask the question. I didn't take it as offensive.

 

McGryff - I'm behind you - make sure the band agrees on your sound, then play your bass !!!

 

Tom

[Ryan Griffith]

Excellent words of encouragement from everyone! I've polled the other two guys in the band & the drummer really digs the MTD & the keyboardist couldn't care less what I play, so it's just an aversion the guitarist has. An aversion, I may add, which he failed to adequately substantiate... he never really gave me any solid reasons, but made his preference for 4-strings pretty clear obliquely. His remarks that I ought to practice the 5 at home & only bring a 4 to band are unnecessary, as I'm not, as Tom said, fudging every other note. I chip a few here & there as I'm adjusting, but I'm a very quick learner, so I think I'm doing fine & neither of the other guys have mentioned anything to me. Thought I'd give an update, to inform CMDN & Lee, as their suggestions were geared at the bass fitting in with the overall sound. 3 out of 4 (myself included, i'm afraid) say the 5-string sounds a-ok!

And as far as the passive/active thing goes... my axe is passive, so it's of no concern to me specifically. The musicman pup give it a little more punch, but I don't think it sounds like a totally different animal than the Fenders.. rather a different take on them, perhaps. Anyways, I think the issue is settled in a practical sense, as I'll tell the said guitarist that the 5 is staying & to deal with it best he can. But it was good to be able to vent to some folks who understand & have dealt with it before. Especially some of you pros, who have to check common sense at the studio door & yank out the Fender when the big man (especially one who sells 75,000,000 records I bet!) frowns on a perfectly good 5-string. Ah well, such is life.

[g.]

Time to buy at least a seven string. Preferably with fanned frets. Then. Tell him you won't be bringing the five string to practice anymore. 

 

 

<-- dr evil ---<<<<

[sywot]

When I changed from 4 to 5 string everyone in the group said great and they put up with some

ugly sounds during the transition period. We opened for Mark Chesnutt one night and I told

his bass player I was having trouble making the change. He looked at me and said."Let your

fingers go where they want to and relax man" I did and it worked. Now if someone wants to know what I play I tell them 5 string. If you want 4 it costs you more!!

[Jay J.]

everyone made some good points here, I think that the main thing to consider is the song/sound if it still sounds good or better than go for it. after all most people don't care about what you use to make the sound, just the sound itself and as long as that does not suffer than people should do whatever floats their boat. in my band I need my five, we play a lot of heavy rock in drop d so having my five is essential for the stuff that we play, or I would have to switch basses during the gig a lot to ajust to the different tunings (like my guitarists, hehe)

[Tom Capasso]

Hey McGryff,

 

Glad to hear you made a decision. Now think about how to implement it. If you've seen the thread on "guitarist ego", you've noticed that many of us advocate diplomacy. Be firm by all means, and don't back down. Just do your part to not make it a fight (what the other person does is ultimately up to them).

 

Greenboy - I saw that 7 string thing. I'm trying to teach that you can be strong and do your thing without making enemies. Don't make me send you to your room... ;}

 

Tom

[g.]

Actually you can't always be strong and not make enemies. It's a nice sentiment...

[Lee Flier]

greenboy:

 

Boy you said that right.

 

--Lee

[D. Gauss]

just curious. how come its gotta be more strings? why not less? didn't mark sandman of the band morphine only have 2 strings? he sure created an original sound. kinda like that peter gabriel album where peter told drummer phil collins he couldn't use any cymbals...

 

-d. gauss

http://www.betteroffdead.com

[turkish]

i know alot of people who are awesome with a 5 but i always think of the best guys and they all primarily play 4's, jaco, geddy, marcus, stanley,bootsy, all these guys did it on 4, so to me going to 5 is like cheating if you can't cut it on 4. that's just my opinion, don't be offended

[g.]

d gauss: just curious. how come its gotta be more strings? why not less?

Doesn't. But for me, my next instument is likely to be a fan-fretted seven- or eight-string because that will allow me to explore some things I'd enjoy, and the fanned frets principle I think is a sound [!] one for extended-range strung instruments.

 

didn't mark sandman of the band morphine only have 2 strings? he sure created an original sound.

I saw Morphine when I lived in Seattle. For gigs I've played CURE FOR PAIN and YES CDs during break. What attracted me first to Morphine was not only the bass approach however; it was the atmospheric approach the writing took, and the fact that instead of electric guitar the trio had saxes, played by Dan Colley. Indeed, club patrons hardly noticed anything untoward about the bass but often remarked how cool the sax sounded, expecially some of those baritone sax and bass intertwinings.

 

Hell, I think lots of guitarists would hardly notice if one were to show up with a two-string, even if one were to play in money position all night long ; }

 

kinda like that peter gabriel album where peter told drummer phil collins he couldn't use any cymbals

Not familiar with it, but sure did like Brand X-period Phil Collins work.

 

...And then there is Leon Parker, an incredible jazz drummer. An original re-interpreter of everything from Monk to Cole Porter and Tin-Pan Alley (as well as being a unique writer), he often chooses only two or three drums from a full kit and grooves the night away on them. I guess he even has worked that way for months at a time, and then switches his choices so as to not to get set in his ways.

 

And it works! The man is amazing!

 

I think it'd be cool to gig in situations where not so many assumptions about what is valid in music and entertainment are baggage, and I'd like to do that with maybe a Dingwall or a Novax, like Charlie Hunter uses. And heck, I'd like to use that in a bar-hanging cover band as well, and let the chips fall where they may!

[Ryan Griffith]

Originally posted by turkish:

i know alot of people who are awesome with a 5 but i always think of the best guys and they all primarily play 4's, jaco, geddy, marcus, stanley,bootsy, all these guys did it on 4, so to me going to 5 is like cheating if you can't cut it on 4. that's just my opinion, don't be offended

That's certainly a legit point... alot of greats do their thing on a four, which is their decision. There are also alot of fantastic players who do their thing on a five, both famous (the more I listen to Mike Gordon, f'rinstance, the more impressed I am! Then there's Roscoe Beck, Gary Willis, and our own Ed Friedland to mention but a few) & unknown. It's purely a matter of preference, I think. And it almost goes without saying that if you can't play a four then you won't improve much with a five. However, the converse is true: if you can play well on a four then you shouldn't fundamentally have problems with a five (after an adjustment period). I'd even go so far as to say that if you're handy with a four then playing a 5-string may even open up more possibilities in your playing, which could lead to an evolved style. I've been playing 4-strings for about 10 years and think I have a pretty good handle on them, so a jump to five isn't exactly cheating, not that you were talking about me in particular. You make a good point though, if you mean that adding a string or two won't improve one's playing automatically!

 

edited for spellin'

[g.]

turkish: i know alot of people who are awesome with a 5 but i always think of the best guys and they all primarily play 4's, jaco, geddy, marcus, stanley,bootsy, all these guys did it on 4

And Jimi Hendrix should have played acoustic...

 

Ah, I guess I'll just respond by saying that the best paintings/drawings were done by charcoal on the walls of caves. That is, until other forms of representation were experimented with for a few centuries. Then there were several ways to make powerful statements -- statements that would always be powerful no matter what had gone before or what might come after. (Though I can imagine a librarian with bureaucratic tendencies somewhere is convinced that only one form of expression should be permitted and revered; all others looked upon with repugnance, moral indignation.)

 

Anyway, electric basses with more than four strings are relatively new to the scene. In spite of that I think you've overlooked an incredible number of great practioneers of the bass who've done great work on bass+ instruments.

 

so to me going to 5 is like cheating if you can't cut it on 4.

And pray tell... who is cheating, that is recording today on five or more strings? And who would be a good judge of that? And who should man the turnstile to give token approval over all the persons considering what type of instrument might spark their interests and awaken their capabilities?

 

that's just my opinion, don't be offended

Don't be offended when I say you probably haven't thought fully about this. If a player can deal with 5 strings well, it is highly likely that a 4-string will be no problem for them either. But if one has a taste for more, they should go for it. The imagination is an expanding universe, and there are many directions to travel.

[g.]

McGryff: it almost goes without saying that if you can't play a four then you won't improve much with a five.

Maybe. Maybe not...

 

I'd even go so far as to say that if you're handy with a four then playing a 5-string may even open up more possibilities in your playing, which could lead to an evolved style.

Yep. And it may also help one take stock, separate them from what has gone before, and allow them the freedom to develop their own voice and style. Of course, many players are not driven to "become themselves", but it is a very strong drive with others. And a lateral strategy often works wonders.

 

You make a good point though, if you mean that adding a string or two won't improve one's playing automatically!

You are too magnanimous ; }

 

I think in a very general way that may hold some truth. But ther have been a great many musical minds who had to find their instrument or genre (or invent their own!) to truly flourish.

[Ryan Griffith]

greenboy,

You are too magnanimous ; }

I go the extra yard to avoid generating hostility here, although perhaps someday I'll learn my lesson I've seen people get touchy over the vaguest of misunderstandings & I didn't want to start a big argument over what the chap thought of five strings, traditional as it did sound. It didn't offend me much, and I didn't want to offend him much... works for all!

 

I think in a very general way that may hold some truth. But ther have been a great many musical minds who had to find their instrument or genre (or invent their own!) to truly flourish.

I can definitely see where you're coming from there. That's partly what I'm doing after so many years with Fender 4-strings... exploring new voices. I tried the fretless last year, which I still love, and now I'm giving the 5-string a good, serious test drive, and so far it's not inhibiting my playing, to say the least. Not only does it have the added range, but it's a higher quality instrument & is easier on my hands & wrist, enabling me to play better. All around a great bass. But it's all in a quest to move, finally, beyond the status quo/plateau I'd reached on 4-string Fenders. Maybe I'll wind up going back to them, but at least I'll have checked out the alternatives, you know? It won't be a blind decision if I do go back that way.

[g.]

McGryff: {...} That's partly what I'm doing after so many years with Fender 4-strings... exploring new voices. I tried the fretless last year, which I still love, and now I'm giving the 5-string a good, serious test drive {...} it's a higher quality instrument & is easier on my hands & wrist, enabling me to play better {...} it's all in a quest to move, finally, beyond the status quo/plateau I'd reached on 4-string Fenders.

Yeah, when some people make remarks about the territory it is so glaringly obvious they really haven't seen the landscape; maybe even are afraid to go and look at it squarely. As if we should not travel because they are afraid, or don't feel the need, have already found their port...

 

I also laugh at the presumption that we could consider ourselves pioneers, when the five-string electric has been so well-used for so long. Really it may be a journey of exploration and self-discovery for each individual, but too, the turf has been covered. We are lucky to be able to benefit by the vision of previous explorers while still becoming enlightend on our own personal journey.

 

I further taste mirth: that somehow, some people who consider themselves bass enthusiasts should not have noticed that much has gone on for quite some time now on electric basses with 5 and 6 strings. Indeed it is no longer any big deal one way or another -- certainly no issue whatsoever, one would think.

 

Maybe I'll wind up going back to them, but at least I'll have checked out the alternatives, you know? It won't be a blind decision if I do go back that way.

Hey, we may return to our home of so long ago, in some way revitalized or at least wiser and weathered. And we may actually do something good there and then, sparked by our journeys.

 

So be it.

[Dan South]

You have to consider, first and foremost, whether the five-string has the right sound. Some modern basses have a non-traditional sound. I've heard some monster players playing their custom Foderas and other brands, and personally, I'd rather hear them playing a Jazz or a P-bass, because I don't like the tone of their fancy basses.

 

That said, this probably is NOT the problem in a lot of cases. I'll bet that a lot of guitarists, leaders, engineers, etc. are complaining about your bass because it LOOKS different, not because it sounds wrong for the gig. If they couldn't SEE that fifth (or sixth) string, they'd probably never notice. I once took a fretless to some practices and gigs with a band I was in many years ago. It went pretty well, but I did have an occasional bad note here and there, so I decided to go back to my fretted J-bass. For months after I put the fretless away, the singer would complain about "that goddamn fretless motherfucker" while looking directly at my bass and pointing at it. Was he fucking blind? I'm not sure, but he was obviously pretty fucking STUPID!

 

For someone like Lee who can't imagine her bassist ever playing a five string, I ask WHY? If you worked with a keyboard player, would you say, "I can't imagine this guy going to an 88-key controller?" It's the SAME FREAKING INSTRUMENT with FIVE EXTRA NOTES added to the top or the bottom. FIVE NOTES! Is that such a radical difference? Geez, Louise! It's not like going from a six-string acoustic guitar to a Rick twelve-string. It's not like switching to fretless or upright or Stick. It's not like switching from fingerstyle to playing with a pick. WHAT is the big deal???? Why are people so suspicious of that fifth string? Five string basses are nothing new. I saw Vivaldi's Four Seasons performed The Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields, and the bassist had a fifth string on his upright. EVERYONE has heard The Four Seasons. And I'll bet that very few people - even classical music afficianados knew that they were hearing a five-string. WHAT'S THE BIG FREAKING DEAL? If the drummer brings an extra tom tom, does anyone complain? Why is the five-string bass such a target of scorn?

 

Try this. The next time someone in your band complains about your extended range bass, ask them to hum the bass line to (pick a song). I'll bet they can't do it. I'll bet that they haven't even been paying attention to what you've been playing, anyway. Your part is just a foundation that they count on to be there for them. If they can't hum your bass lines, HOW THE FUCK DO THEY KNOW WHAT DIFFERENCE YOUR EQUIPMENT IS MAKING??

 

Again, to reiterate my initial point, if the sound of the five-string is not cutting it, take that criticism seriously. If you need to play those very low notes more sparingly, that's a worthwhild criticism as well. But if the tone is essentially the same as your four-string, and if you're playing the same parts give or take a note or two, smile and say that you understand their concern and that you'll only play the "regular" four notes from now on, but since the bass was a gift from your Mom, you feel attached to it and you just want to play it a little longer before putting it away. Then play what you want. They won't have a clue, anyway.

 

By the way, that Vegas headliner - is his first name Tony?

[Ben]

CMDN, Lee, sorry, I was a little quick out of the blocks. Just trying to make the same point that greenboy and others have been making, too, that tone, playing style, and the number of strings are completely separate issues.

 

I sometimes wonder about how fussy we are about this kind of stuff in bands. For playing live, I think we sometimes obsess about small details that don't really matter except to each other. From 200 feet away - or even across a crowded smoky bar - most folks in the audience can't tell the difference and probably wouldn't care if they could. At any venue with a big PA, these types of differences are only in the stage sound, since the house sound is all in the hands of the sound people anyway.

 

I do think electric bass suffers from conservative pressures more than most other types of instruments. The argument that since some good players use(d) 4 strings somehow means that everyone else should use 4 is particularly sad. If keyboards suffered from the same sort of thinking, most "real" keyboard players would still be using out-of-tune house upright pianos, and those who dared to use a Fender Rhodes piano would be criticized. And synthesizers never would have been invented.

 

The logic that only 4 strings are appropriate gets even stranger when the electric bass is rejected altogether, and "only an upright will do". Nothing wrong with upright, but this sort of snobbery gets my goat. Where are the folks saying that electric guitars should be abandoned in favor of the lute? After all, there is a certain tone that you can only get with a lute...

[Ryan Griffith]

Dansouth: Five string basses are nothing new. I saw Vivaldi's Four Seasons performed The Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields, and the bassist had a fifth string on his upright. EVERYONE has heard The Four Seasons. And I'll bet that very few people - even classical music afficianados knew that they were hearing a five-string.

Good call... my teacher was telling me this when I first brought my five to a lesson. He has C extensions on his uprights, and was telling me that they have to play that low C in classical literature "all the time." He had also played a 5-string DB once, but he owns 4-strings himself. I guess most of us can agree that this aversion to 5-strings, if not based on tone, is pretty much senseless.

 

Try this. The next time someone in your band complains about your extended range bass, ask them to hum the bass line to (pick a song). I'll bet they can't do it. I'll bet that they haven't even been paying attention to what you've been playing, anyway. Your part is just a foundation that they count on to be there for them.

Dan, I really dig this idea! A little aggressive, but it gets the point across if a diplomatic approach fails. Luckily, as I mentioned in a previous post, the guitarist is the only one who has a problem, and he's not too bad about it... yet. I polled the other two & the drummer loves the 5-string & the keyboardist doesn't care in the least what I play, so the "ayes" have it.

[Tom Capasso]

Originally posted by Ben:

...I do think electric bass suffers from conservative pressures more than most other types of instruments...

Since we've got McGryff on his way, and discussed many aspects of equipment and playing, I'm going to ask a question because I'm curious.

 

Could guitarists, keyboardists, drummers, sound engineers (anyone else) respond to Ben's statement quoted above? I've heard people say that "you gotta have a strat". Is there a lot of equipment prejudice in other areas?

 

Tom

[ibescotty]

I get cringes for playing through a Crate rig. It's 80's vintage and all I could get my hands on with the money I have. Turns out it's really good at clean sound along with my XT-2. I've even had people I've sat in with compliment my sound.

I hate when people rip my rig because it's crate through two 15's before they even hear it. It's not the ideal set up but it's what I got for now. Sure I want an SWR or Ampeg but we all have our constraints and I do the best I can with what I have. I think I have a really good combination going right now.

Don't rip it until you hear it!! Now if you hear it and say man that stinks I guess I have nothing to say....

[JES]

I think it's genre specific, but there's also an X-factor (for lack of a better term) about the 4-string. A lot of rock has been written for 4-string bass, and there's something about the E-string when it's the lowest string that just gives more woof. Also, there's the position playing issue: with a 5, it's a whole lot easier to be a position player, whereas with a 4 you're forced to move up and down the neck more for the same range of notes. For MY playing, I've found I prefer the 4-string because I do more movement up and down the neck and because I like the "power" you get from the E-string being the lowest, as opposed to how the notes sound on the 5. I *do* like how 5s sound in other people's hands -- I just personally find them less fun to play for the music I play.

 

So I think there are lots of legit reasons to prefer a 4 over a 5 (though it could just as easily go the otehr way, if you LIKE the tone of a "G" on the 8th fret or whatever), but I think with nonbassists, it's as often about how the instrument looks or what it implies as anything having to do with the sound of the instrument.

 

For cool looks, though, you can't beat black tapewound strings on a maple unlined fretless neck (with black body). Too bad the tapewounds didn't sound good!

 

Best,

--JES

[g.]

Ben: I do think electric bass suffers from conservative pressures more than most other types of instruments

Tom Capasso: I've heard people say that "you gotta have a strat". Is there a lot of equipment prejudice in other areas?

Most assuredly. Everybody carries their own set of biases, naturally. But many seek to imprint their set on others. In this regard bassists are, as Ben notes, the most pressed: not only are engineers who don't want to spend 10 minutes getting a sound on bass after spending a day on drums and guitar so likely to run for their single Fender setup. For then come the guitarists, who tend to be conservative on behalf of their lesser brethren the bassists (and even for themselves, depending on genre). And lastly, there are other bassists, those who are convinced change is bad, and like their guitarist counterparts have mapped out a very limited territory of what is proper and fitting for that four-string.

 

But on to another instrument already: many guitarists are convinced their instrument (which consists of both guitar AND amp both in the studio and live, which may be their edge over bassists) must conform to certain genre archetypes. Like: Telie for country, Marshall for metal, etc. Newer guitars and amps (brands and models) are slow to get any acceptance by the guitarist population at large. Though there are always excellent players who adopt tools that have not always got a capital F or G on their headstock ; }

 

Let's face it: most people are sheeple. They want to be accepted, and after all much of this gear is tried and true, if not alone in that regard. People rely on legends rather than their ears and imaginations. It's easier this way.

 

I enjoy watching gutarists go through set after set of expensive tubes, often to little or no audible affect. Though one who has messed with this must note that tubes are not only about tone, but desired non-linear response and "feel" curves.

 

Engineers and producers at every level have their opinions, but usually will defer to most instrumentalists -- save for bassists, who are considered the bottom of the foodchain usually. Not trying to be cynical here; just my observation. Bassists are less often in on the writing process (other than their own line), are less often band leaders and creative forces for entire bands. It is their job to be supportive. And some believe that means Nothing But...

 

And here is where I salute all bassists who persevere, managing to imprint their parts and tone with personality, creating the best grooves and imbuing the music with strength and depth. And an additional salute to the support many bassists have given to luthiers instead of living in the vintage world exclusively.

[Wally Malone]

To add to the discussion on fives. Fives took more of a prominence when a lot of the recordings were being done by synth players or songwriters who composed on synths and the bass parts were extended below the range of the four-string bass. When these songs were played on the tours a bass player was hired and expected to play the parts on the recordings. Situations do exist out there that to serve the music and to get the gig you have to have a five.

 

Wally

[Lee Flier]

Sure there's "equipment prejudice" on every instrument. I see lots of ads in the paper saying "Must have Les Paul and Marshall" or "must have Hammond B-3" or whatever. A lot of it is definitely genre specific, if a songwriter wants to hear a certain sound well... you can't fault them for looking for that sound I don't think, as long as they're up front about what they're looking for. When looking for band members, I would never be that specific myself, but if somebody's a good player but their rig just doesn't sound right for what you're doing... well, it can be tough. But it certainly does happen on every instrument, not just bass. Even I, with an impressive collection of vintage guitars, was once turned down for an audition because they specifically wanted someone with a Rickenbacker and a Vox AC-30. Well, I can't argue that nothing else really sounds like that, even if I may have been the perfect player for the part.

 

Dan, you asked why our bass player can't imagine playing a 5 string... well it's pretty simple, he feels he can do everything he wants with a 4 and there would be no earthly reason for him to switch. I think he would also tell you that what's good enough for Paul McCartney is good enough for him.

 

--Lee

[The Bear Jew]

Along the lines of what Lee just said...

 

When I was asked to help out a friend's band on a short tour, they asked me to use an effects rig in addition to my usual rig because their music required things like delay and chorus, which I usually wouldn't use (and don't own.) Also, since they're a moody goth/electronica act, they asked me not to "rock out" (headbang, etc) the way I usually do for my own band. It was kind of a struggle (because that's what I normally do), but I did it for my friends. I hung with them until they found a permanent replacement -- I was their first choice as a guitarist. I had to split -- they had certain sound and image requirements that just didn't work with me physically or musically. Even though I love the band's music and the people, I couldn't resign myself to a musical life full of chorus, delay and black lipstick. My regular "Les Paul & Marshall" style wasn't the thing they needed. The guy who eventually filled the position permanently had a huge rack of effects and the appropriate fashion sense -- and they advertised for JUST such a person.

 

If my band had to audition a new drummer next week (God forbid), my ad would say something like, "Hardcore/metal band seeks hard-hitting, funky rock drummer with good song sense and simple, minimal gear." I wouldn't necessarily specify "5-piece Vintage Ludwig Players Only -- No DW or Spaun Players, Please" or anything like that, but I would hope the text in the main part of my ad would discourage Mike Portnoy or Danny Carey types from calling in the first place.

 

Again, this is a communication thing -- people aren't generally psychic, so you have to tell them what you're looking for in a band (or a band member.) I don't think bassists have it any harder than any other band member position. Finding the right musical situation for your sound requires knowing your sound, knowing the right music for it and finding people honest (and smart enough) to come right out and ask for it rather than just taking anyone who walks in with an instrument.

[The Fonz]

okay, i have to admit i'm a bit confused as to why this thread is so long. no offence to the very rational posts from guitar players on here, but the reality of it is a musician is allowed to play whatever instrument he f**king wants to. it doesn't take that long to get used to the extra string, and if you can't wait for it or tolerate a few muffed notes in a REHEARSAL then you're an asshole. i can see the concern if it were a show, in which case don't play an instrument you're not used to.

 

seriously, who the hell has the right to tell someone what instrument they can or cannot play. a hired gun is one thing, but even then it's a bit far fetched. how would a guitarist react if the bass player said "you know what? that vintage strat of yours sounds pretty thin. go get a les paul, and make sure it's a '50s gold top."

 

and especially the 5 string issue. the thing is exactly the same as a four string with an extra string for added range. there's nothing you can do on a four string that you can't do on a five. i was in a band that played most stuff in dropped d with a song or two in e and e flat. perfect setting for a 5 string, right? the guitar player asked me to get a four and tune down because it was confusing to him that my fingers were landing in different spots than the last guy. wtf??? the only difference the five is going to make once one gets used to it is it allows you to play things in different ranges which might actually make the music sound better. where is the rationale in not wanting that?