So how about the Michael Jackson thing?

[ITGITC]

Thriller was a good album.

 

I also liked The Jackson 5 stuff.

 

...hold on, I've got to mow the lawn now.

[Angelo Clematide]

is this "Showprocess" not all about MONEY, and

selling NEWS to moron SUN + MIRROR readers, in

a "UNEMPLOYMENT TV CULTURE" ???

 

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[Angelo Clematide]

hope he grews up a little after this experience !!!

 

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[Enrique]

Originally posted by Henchman:

Originally posted by Enrique:

"You are innocent until PROVEN guilty."

 

Not if you are Michael Jackson or R Kelly.

 

Ah yes. R. Kelly. Anotyher shing example.

 

Also, being found Not-Guilty doesn't always mean you're innocent either.

AFTER one has been found guilty by a court of law, then the media can begin their character assassination, not BEFORE though.

[Tedly Nightshade]

If the guy were presumed innocent, he wouldn't be arrested. He's presumed guilty.

 

However, AT THE TRIAL, he must be presumed innocent by the jury, and his guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in order for him to be declared guilty.

 

"Not guilty" does not mean the person didn't do it- it means it can not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

The idea is, it's far better to have a guilty guy walk than it is to throw an innocent guy into prison.

[Enrique]

Originally posted by Christopher Robin:

Actually, there has been tons of coverage of pedophile priests too. There would have been more if the priests were showing up late to court, dancing on cars outside the courtroom, etc.

 

MJ brought a bunch of this on himself. No matter what his issues, he should have recognized the 1st time around that this man-child routine looks really bad. I think he needs to grow up, already.

Yes, there has been some coverage of the pedophile priests but in comparison, there has been

more time, money and TV coverage spent to Michael Jackson than

all the pedophile priests COMBINED.

 

I mean really, has any one of the pedophile priests become a house hold name like Scott Peterson has?

 

 

I dont think so.

[Tedster]

Originally posted by Bruce Swedien:

Super 8 sez-------->I seriously doubt "The Bruce" will be entering this thread, for obvious reasons, and I understand that. But if he wanted to come in and vouche for MJ's character, I would be more than willing to listen.

 

What I think about MJ doesn't matter....what I think could be wrong.

 

Brucie sez-------->That shows you how little you know! Especially about me! I'm here.

 

I can't truly vouche for Michael's character. No one can do that but Michael. I have worked with him closely since he was 17 years old. I have never personally seen him do any of the things that he is accused of. Have you?

 

I have been told things that would curl your hair about Michael. I have not seen any of those things. Have you?

 

I am doing an interview for the BBC about my life with Michael in half an hour.

 

By-the-way, when I was asked to come forward for Michael, I couldn't do it! Not with any good conscience.....

 

Bruce Swedien

I think that Bruce has made a vital distinction between a person's professional persona and personal traits.

 

No one can deny his capabilities as an entertainer. But, those involved with him on that side won't see another side.

 

Not saying Michael is guilty or not guilty, but to compare it to...well, they've arrested a few serial killers, and when they interview their colleagues, the colleagues all say "Not Jim! Certainly not JIM...I've worked with him for 25 years and he doesn't have a character quirk to his name". But, of course, they wouldn't see that side in, say, Jim's contracting business.

 

Just the same...I wish it would be over.

[GY]

It's hilarious how many emails I get asking for directions to the ranch. One person asked if I had the secret password to give the gate guard person to get in. Wonder if there is one!

[Angelo Clematide]

The Password is:

 

I'm King of Pop I'm Hip You Hop I Flip You Flop

 

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[cerumen]

I heard one of those hair curling' stories...

Supposedly he started getting kid-wierd after hooking up with Quincy.

[Martin Kantola]

The whole western world is getting very bizarre in case you haven't noticed. I don't see how anyone of us could have the right to stand up and point fingers at somebody not proven guilty of anything.

 

Michael Jackson has not done me or anyone I know any harm in any way. I simply don't know the person at all. So, I can't defend him and I certainly will not judge him.

 

What I've heard about him and his work from reliable sources is only positive things so far. It makes me very sad to hear all the bad stuff, really shows what we humans are.

 

Wish people would learn to at least hold on to their stones for a while...

 

Martin

[Bill Roberts]

Martin, society is running down a said path that I decided long ago not to participate in.

 

I am a relatively private person. Being an engineer, I am very happy to work and be around my "own kind". Their are a lot of things I don't understand but their are a lot of them I do. I am no recluse..but Imagine Micheal. Poor Soul cound not honestly get in his car, drive to the mall for an ice cream, shop the windows, buy a watch and go home and rummage through all the sacks. He did not have that luxury.

 

We just don't know but all I have said in this thread, I stand by 100%.

[Enrique]

Michael Jackson is being railroaded.

 

Here is a piece in the LA times.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-060105jackson_lat,0,6923804.story?coll=la-home-headlines

 

The judge explained how the jury could use material relating to past allegations that Jackson molested young boys. None of the incidents led to criminal charges, but there were two multimillion-dollar settlements in civil cases.

 

"If you find that the defendant committed a prior sexual offense, you may, but are not required, to infer that the defendant had a disposition to commit sexual offenses," Melville said.

 

But the jurist warned that the material is "not sufficient by itself to find beyond a reasonable doubt that he [Jackson] committed the" acts alleged by the current accuser.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Im not a lawyer but why would the judge bring up the past allegations made against Michael AT ALL.

 

Quoting judge Melville:

 

"If you find that the defendant committed a prior sexual offense, you may.

 

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It seems a responsible judge would have said:

 

You are to consider and ONLY JUDGE the EVIDENCE made in THIS CASE and not

any prior allegations made against Michael Jackson, period.

 

Judge Melville went on to say:

 

"you may, but are not required, to infer that the defendant had a disposition to commit sexual offenses," Melville said.

 

My response to judge Melvilles jury instructions is that one can infer that the American

Justice system has a disposition to railroad minorities.

[Super 8]

Originally posted by Martin Kantola:

Michael Jackson has not done me or anyone I know any harm in any way. I simply don't know the person at all. So, I can't defend him and I certainly will not judge him.

Interesting. So you don't find anything odd about sleeping and showering with young boys?

[Anderton]

<>

 

I think Bruce's posts are fabulous, but I believe his one about MJ has truly earned the "No BS/No Spin" award of the year.

 

Bruce, my man, it's truly an honor to have you visiting this space. You seem to have sort of crossed over the line from intelligence to wisdom

[Anderton]

<

 

When my daughter was very young, sometimes we'd take a shower together. It was the transition from when she couldn't bathe herself to when she started getting capable of working the shower and reaching for the shower head. There was just an awkward period where wasn't completely secure going from bathed by others to being totally on her own. It was a special "Daddy time" that was part of the continuum of her changing from a baby to a girl.

 

Of course, that period didn't last very long. I think what MJ is trying to capture is the innocence of that kind of situation, not necessarily the end result. I'm fortunate because my daughter and I still have very special moments all the time -- like last night as she was going to bed, we hung out and watched "Johnny English" together and it was very fun. What was so cool is that now I'm the honored guest in HER space, watching the movies SHE likes to see, and seeing them through HER eyes. Then again, she returned the favor by getting way into Star Wars

 

With MJ, how far that quest for innocence goes is something I don't know. I love kids. Sometimes I'll be with my daughter at the mall and strike up a conversation with some boy or girl. It's sad that the parents always give me this initial look like "Is this guy a serial killer or something?" Eventually they realize I'm just being sociable with my daughter and her world, but what a world it is when the assumption is that someone has ulterior motives in everything they do.

 

I really don't know whether MJ is a pedophile or not. My suspicion is that if he is, he is not capable of seeing it for what it is. And if he isn't, then a terrible injustice is being perpetrated.

 

But what do I know?

[doug osborne]

Originally posted by Super 8:

...I know many of you are probably irritated that it's even news, but it is entertainment news. ... [/QB]

Not news.

 

Not entertainment.

 

A human tragedy any way you cut it.

[KenElevenShadows]

Originally posted by Super 8:

Interesting. So you don't find anything odd about sleeping and showering with young boys?

He's been showering with young boys as well?

 

I haven't followed the thing closely at all, so maybe this is old news?

 

Obviously, I have no idea whether the man's innocent or guilty or whether he perceives things like this the same way as other people do. I will say that the guy's insanely stupid or clueless if he had already had his feet held to the fire once and then continued putting himself in this situation.

 

Whatever it is, I hope they figure out the actual truth. I won't hold my breath, but that's what I hope!

[Philip OKeefe]

Originally posted by cerumen:

I heard one of those hair curling' stories...

Supposedly he started getting kid-wierd after hooking up with Quincy.

Are you making an insinuation that Q was somehow the cause of MJ's alleged behaviour?

 

That's a pretty cheap shot to make, considering Quincy isn't here to defend himself and you have given nothing insofar as source, documentation or anything whatsoever to back it up.

[FoxTick]

Originally posted by Ken/Eleven Shadows:

Originally posted by Super 8:

Interesting. So you don't find anything odd about sleeping and showering with young boys?

He's been showering with young boys as well?

 

I haven't followed the thing closely at all, so maybe this is old news?

 

Obviously, I have no idea whether the man's innocent or guilty or whether he perceives things like this the same way as other people do. I will say that the guy's insanely stupid or clueless if he had already had his feet held to the fire once and then continued putting himself in this situation.

 

Whatever it is, I hope they figure out the actual truth. I won't hold my breath, but that's what I hope!

Well said, Ken http://www.foxtick.com/Images/mjthumb.gif

[KenElevenShadows]

Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe:

Originally posted by cerumen:

I heard one of those hair curling' stories...

Supposedly he started getting kid-wierd after hooking up with Quincy.

Are you making an insinuation that Q was somehow the cause of MJ's alleged behaviour?

 

That's a pretty cheap shot to make, considering Quincy isn't here to defend himself and you have given nothing insofar as source, documentation or anything whatsoever to back it up.

Jeeez, I knew I shouldn't have started reading this thread!!

 

Q had actually made repeated attempts to tell MJ to stop putting himself in questionable-looking situations because he would get in exactly the kind of trouble he's in right now.

[Enrique]

Originally posted by Anderton:

 

I really don't know whether MJ is a pedophile or not. My suspicion is that if he is, he is not capable of seeing it for what it is. And if he isn't, then a terrible injustice is being perpetrated.

 

But what do I know?

If Michael is a pedophile, then he deserves no mercy.

 

But it seems when everyone talks about Michael, no one ever talks about what kind

of parents LET a grown man (Michael Jackson) into their home for sleepovers.

 

People and the media never focus on that point and if this could be a shakedown.

 

Why is that?

 

It seems to me that a man of his wealth could easily go to Thailand and have sex with boys and

easily cover it up if he were indeed a pedophile.

 

But, it seems he actually enjoys playing kids games as if he were one too.

 

While a pedophile is all "business", after having sex there is no relationship or

playing, there are threats made to the kid from the pedophile.

 

Thats why I think Michael is not a pedophile.

 

But then again, what do I know.

[LiveMusic]

Heck, maybe the guy is insane. What's the p.c. name for 'retarded' these days? The guy ain't right, no doubt. Has his mental 'condition' ever been examined? We all know he's weird as hell. He just happens to be insanely rich. But that doesn't make him a pedophile. Crazy, yeah. Mentally undeveloped, yeah. Pedophile, no.

[Super 8]

Originally posted by Anderton:

I think Bruce's posts are fabulous, but I believe his one about MJ has truly earned the "No BS/No Spin" award of the year.

I was thrilled that he would respond at all.

 

Bruce sez:

By-the-way, when I was asked to come forward for Michael, I couldn't do it! Not with any good conscience.....

I assume by this that he meant testifying in favor of MJ?

 

I can't truly vouche for Michael's character. No one can do that but Michael. I have worked with him closely since he was 17 years old. I have never personally seen him do any of the things that he is accused of. Have you?

No, of course not. But then again, when would I have ever had an opportunity to see any of those things? Lot's of people have done lot's of things that I haven't seen. But that doesn't mean anything. Perhaps then I shouldn't have an opinion on it.

 

However, am I mistaken in thinking that nobody is contesting the issue of Michael showering and sleeping with young boys?

 

I think that this alone is just cause for concern.

 

If anyone else were doing this, a boyscout leader, or perhaps a Catholic priest, they'd be strung up by now. But for some reason, MJ gets a pass. Many people just say; "Michael is just a unique person", or, "That's just Michael's way".

 

I just think the whole thing is freak'n bizzare.

If he's not molesting kids, I think that's great. But what the hell is he doing sleeping with them?

 

I have been told things that would curl your hair about Michael. I have not seen any of those things. Have you?

Well, I saw him dangle his son off a balcony. That curled my hair bit.

[Super 8]

Originally posted by Anderton:

When my daughter was very young, sometimes we'd take a shower together. It was the transition from when she couldn't bathe herself to when she started getting capable of working the shower and reaching for the shower head. There was just an awkward period where wasn't completely secure going from bathed by others to being totally on her own. It was a special "Daddy time" that was part of the continuum of her changing from a baby to a girl.

Craig, please don't take what I said to mean that I am condeming special times between parents and their kids.

If you shower with your daughter, I think that's fine.

If Michael Jackson or Mick Jagger showers with your daughter, I think somethings not quite right.

 

I really don't know whether MJ is a pedophile or not. My suspicion is that if he is, he is not capable of seeing it for what it is. And if he isn't, then a terrible injustice is being perpetrated.

Regressive pedophiles do not feel that they are hurting their victims. They feel that their victims want to have sexual relationships with them. Look at NAMBLA, for instance. Those people think that society just can't understand the depth of their relationships with boys....that they and the kids they're messing with are being attacked by an intolerant society.

 

If Michael Jackson turns out to be a pedophile, I'd lay odds that he's a regressive pedophile.

Sadly, those kinds are nearly impossible to treat.

 

But what do I know?

Hey, what do any of us know? This ain't a court of law. We're just talking.

 

I agree with you. If Michael is innocent, then this is a terrible injustice, and I wish him all the best. I hope he gets his music career back on track.....if that's even possible.

He clearly seems happiest when he's doing music.

 

And for the record, I think he an amazingly talented person. His sense of rhythm is incredible. I'd love to hear him on a set of drums, if he plays. If he doesn't play, I think he'd be a natural if he learned.

He's a great dancer, and singer....all around great entertainer.

 

I liked "Off the Wall" and "Thriller", although I thought the snare drum started sounding rather obnoxious on his subsequent albums, which made the songs harder for me to listen to.

 

I have nothing against him. But if he's been taking advantage of people's kids, I think he needs to be held accountable for it.

[Martin Kantola]

No point to talk about common sense, unless you have enough in common...

 

Super 8, have you ever have a child crawl into you your bed in the middle of the night? Can you imagine why a kid would do something like that? I can tell you one thing, it's never about sex.

 

You repeat many things you've read in the papers, I recognize most of them. But do you know this, or do you assume that it's true? Personally, I don't have a way to verify this. How many people out there have?

 

To answer you question:

 

No, I don't find anything odd about sleeping and showering in general. I do it all the time myself.

 

Martin

[ptuzer]

Micheal Jackson belongs in Jail!!!!!! He is a freak!!!!!!

and he is as Guilty as OJ but he will probably get off!

Where there is smoke there is fire.

For *$% sakes I am forty yours old and I DON"T sleep with young boys in my bed. I remember when my girlfriends daughter (who was 8 years old at the time) Climbed into bed with me (my gal had left for work). When I woke up and saw her there ... I freaked out and got her go back to her own bed. That is the correct thing to do with kids. I saw my life flash before my eyes all i could think about was a shotgun and the kids father seeing that. IT IS NOT NORMAL FOR AN ADULT TO SLEEP WITH CHILDREN ALONE. IF YOU DO THIS YOU WILL BE CAUGHT AND PUNISHED!!!!

[Super 8]

Originally posted by Martin Kantola:

No point to talk about common sense, unless you have enough in common...

 

Super 8, have you ever have a child crawl into you your bed in the middle of the night? Can you imagine why a kid would do something like that? I can tell you one thing, it's never about sex.

Would you mind explaining how any of this is relevant?

 

You repeat many things you've read in the papers, I recognize most of them. But do you know this, or do you assume that it's true? Personally, I don't have a way to verify this. How many people out there have?

Once again... Is it being contested that MJ was sleeping and showering with boys? In other words, are the people in Michael Jackson's camp saying, "No. They slept apart, and showered seperately.".

I do not need to verify what they have already ackowledged.

 

My understanding of the situation is that no one is saying they weren't sharing beds. What they are arguing over is whether or not he was molesting them during those times.

Do you disagree with that statement?

 

To answer you question:

 

No, I don't find anything odd about sleeping and showering in general. I do it all the time myself.

 

Martin

You did not answer my question, Martin. I asked you if you found anything odd about sleeping and showering with young boys? You re-worded my question to avoid answering it directly.

[Angelo Clematide]

Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai Now something completly else: Now something completly else: Now something completly else: Now something completly else: Now something completly else: Now something completly else: Double Post hee-hee

 

by tha way, i eat a broom if Michael is a pedophile, and sex in the vatican is something completly else

[Angelo Clematide]

isn't that Michael thing not only possible in

Jesusland, and nobody would cry about something

like that in France for example... well, ok in

Dubai they would cut off his head for not

showering with boys maybee....

 

Now something completly else:

Here, where i leave, it is impossible, that

someone can make big money by accusing someone else.

And when the accuser looses the case,

get's away with no further consequences.

 

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